Federal Funding for Fast Rail - It is Ballarat's turn

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 27 Nov 2019 15:59
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
A most interesting development and one which is likely to blindside the ALP.  I think the plan is what is really required however I believe it lacks electrification for the services for several reasons:

1. Environmental impacts
2. Speed and cost of Diesel operation compared to electrification using the green power available in the Ballarat area.
3. Diesel trains in the tunnel between Sunshine and Southern Cross is not a workable solution.

Thoughts?

Federal Funding for Fast Rail - It is Ballarat's turn

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  justarider Assistant Commissioner

Location: Stuck on VR and hoping for better.
"blindsided the ALP" oh come on now @bevans.

Its called the "Western Rail Plan" for which the $100M businesss case is due in 2020

Its old news tarted up by a local advocate to try and gee up the process a bit.


Good to see the local Libs are on board.

cheers
John
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Yes...no longer the Farce Rail Project...

Mike.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
"blindsided the ALP" oh come on now @bevans.

Its called the "Western Rail Plan" for which the $100M businesss case is due in 2020

Its old news tarted up by a local advocate to try and gee up the process a bit.


Good to see the local Libs are on board.

cheers
John
justarider

I would have thought rightly or wrongly this announcement may have come as a surprise to the ALP.  I may even go as far as to say this was designed to put unanticipated pressure on Daniel Andrews to prioritise the project.

The take away is the LIBS are now starting their policy reveal as to what we can expect from them at a state level when the next election comes along?

Since the Feds are providing funds for infrastructure projects it is timely.

Why would the western rail plan not have electrification and better rolling stock on the route?
  Rossco T Chief Train Controller

Location: Camberwell, Victoria
The take away is the LIBS are now starting their policy reveal as to what we can expect from them at a state level when the next election comes along?
bevans

The Libs were promising fast rail to Ballarat before the last State election if you can remember back a year, although their funding commitment may have been somewhat unrealistic.  So nothing really has changed there.

Why would the western rail plan not have electrification and better rolling stock on the route?
bevans
Who says the western rail plan doesn't include these things.  Maybe you will just have to wait for 2020 until the business case is released.

Ross
  justarider Assistant Commissioner

Location: Stuck on VR and hoping for better.
"blindsided the ALP" oh come on now @bevans.

Its called the "Western Rail Plan" for which the $100M businesss case is due in 2020

Its old news tarted up by a local advocate to try and gee up the process a bit.


Good to see the local Libs are on board.

cheers
John

I would have thought rightly or wrongly this announcement may have come as a surprise to the ALP.  I may even go as far as to say this was designed to put unanticipated pressure on Daniel Andrews to prioritise the project.

The take away is the LIBS are now starting their policy reveal as to what we can expect from them at a state level when the next election comes along?

Since the Feds are providing funds for infrastructure projects it is timely.

Why would the western rail plan not have electrification and better rolling stock on the route?
bevans
Metro Sparkes to Melton, gives the V/Los a decent sprint. I hour to Ballarat is achievable.

"Better" is in the eye of the beholder, V/Los are getting a re-fit.

More than that is best described by @vinelander "Farce Rail Project"

cheers
John
  tazzer96 Deputy Commissioner

The only real improvements the ballarat line needs are melton duplication and electrification is following.  Reinstatement of dual track running between warrenheip and ballarat instead of two bi-di individual tracks.  Electrification to wendouree.  Maybe some loop extensions.  Thats it.  Its already the fastest timetabled rail service in the nation.  A few minutes savings could be acheived through better acceleration going up the hills through electrification.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Metro Sparkes to Melton, gives the V/Los a decent sprint. I hour to Ballarat is achievable.

"Better" is in the eye of the beholder, V/Los are getting a re-fit.

More than that is best described by @vinelander "Farce Rail Project"

cheers
John
justarider

If a timetable was being created for a 'flagship' express service, SCS to Ballarat, it is easily achievable in under an hour due to the RRL works and the duplication to Melton which may assist further.

My reference to Farce Rail Project stems from the Libs when Steve Bracks first announced the proposed Regional Fast Rail project way back in 1999/00.

Mike.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Metro Sparkes to Melton, gives the V/Los a decent sprint. I hour to Ballarat is achievable.

"Better" is in the eye of the beholder, V/Los are getting a re-fit.

More than that is best described by @vinelander "Farce Rail Project"

cheers
John

If a timetable was being created for a 'flagship' express service, SCS to Ballarat, it is easily achievable in under an hour due to the RRL works and the duplication to Melton which may assist further.

My reference to Farce Rail Project stems from the Libs when Steve Bracks first announced the proposed Regional Fast Rail project way back in 1999/00.

Mike.
The Vinelander
A 40 kmh SR has just been imposed through the main platform at Melton.  With duplication just about to open from Caroline Springs to Melton Wier it is extremely dissapointing that the track through the main platform has not been maintained pro-actively to a mainline standard that allows express run throughs at line speed for Ballarat through trains. Such severe SR's make operation of even a 60 minute express to Ballarat very difficult.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
If a speed restriction of 40 km/h is in operation through the Melton platform there will be a quick reply from me to Minister Horne.

Also is the speed restriction on the downside of Rockbank still in operation Question

If so, this will be an additional point to raise about unnecessary interruptions to the schedule and a perception the track is in poor condition.

I expect delays from Monday due to the operation of pilots from Melton to Caroline Springs.

Mike.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
The only real improvements the ballarat line needs are melton duplication and electrification is following.  Reinstatement of dual track running between warrenheip and ballarat instead of two bi-di individual tracks.  Electrification to wendouree.  Maybe some loop extensions.  Thats it.  Its already the fastest timetabled rail service in the nation.  A few minutes savings could be acheived through better acceleration going up the hills through electrification.
tazzer96

HI, this is my view also.

Electrification and lighter rolling stock will allow faster running on the down and probably the UP at least out of Ballarat.  Fixing the mess at Warrenheip will also help and other double track areas.  This would improve the line out of sight.  There is scope to improve and I wonder how much value we are getting from the 1/2 billion current improvement works?
  Lockie91 Train Controller

Oh lord @bevans.

This wasn’t an announcement of any kind. There is no commitment form the Victorian Liberal Party to build anything. No money not even a napkin to draw a plan on.

This article relates to an internal party resolution to lobby the Federal Liberals to commit to funding as part of its 10 year $100B infrastructure fund.

The resolution was made at the Victorian Liberal State Confrence which was being held in Ballarat last weekend.

Blindsided the ALP are not, another case of you not reading the article, most definitely.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

SG Ballarat - Warrenheip has to be included in one form or another.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
SG Ballarat - Warrenheip has to be included in one form or another.
kitchgp

Is there room for a 3rd track between Warrenheip and Ballarat East?
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line

I wonder how much value we are getting from the 1/2 billion current improvement works?
bevans

Lots.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
SG Ballarat - Warrenheip has to be included in one form or another.

Is there room for a 3rd track between Warrenheip and Ballarat East?
bevans

1. SG is not in the scope of the project.

2. Yes...after spending Mega $.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
SG Ballarat - Warrenheip has to be included in one form or another.

Is there room for a 3rd track between Warrenheip and Ballarat East?

1. SG is not in the scope of the project.

2. Yes...after spending Mega $.
The Vinelander

Not in scope for the high speed proposal from the LIBS but still in scope for MBRP?
  Trans-Siberian Station Master

Location: Krasnoyarsk, Siberia
A most interesting development and one which is likely to blindside the ALP.  I think the plan is what is really required however I believe it lacks electrification for the services for several reasons:

1. Environmental impacts
2. Speed and cost of Diesel operation compared to electrification using the green power available in the Ballarat area.
3. Diesel trains in the tunnel between Sunshine and Southern Cross is not a workable solution.

Thoughts?

Federal Funding for Fast Rail - It is Ballarat's turn
bevans

Incorrect Assumptions; because....IF Bombardier and V/Line were an informed group of humans, they'd be looking for existing technologies that can address the above 3 reasons....guess what, they already DO exist (since 2014)...!

The EV-E301 series "Sustina" HYBRID made from Stainless-Steel, by J-TREC - that have had a long history of innovation, will go a long way towards mitigating ALL the above 3 reasons; because, it is capable of of being modified for running on BOTH the 1500v overhead catenary system in the tunnel between Southern Cross (SC) & Sunshine, then switching to battery power (present range 25.4 km) which can be either supplanted or combined with Diesel-electric operation from Sunshine to Ballarat/Ararat/Maryborough and many other locales such as SC to Traralgon/Sale/Bairnsdale; SC to Seymour/Albury; SC to Geelong/Warrnambool; SC to Woodend/Kyneton/Bendigo...etc.  

Current passenger configuration for 46 per car; equipped with LED lighting, and resulting in whopping -60% reduction in NOx greenhouse gasses.
- https://www.j-trec.co.jp/eng/sustina/060/index.html
  jakar Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
If a speed restriction of 40 km/h is in operation through the Melton platform there will be a quick reply from me to Minister Horne.
The Vinelander
I'd be interested to hear the ministers response as word going around is V/Line's maintenance budget has been depleted and requests for more funding have not been forthcoming due to money being tied up in the various projects on the go at the moment.

I assume you're also aware the old 2 road at Rockbank (now the UP track) wasn't upgraded to 160km/h so there is a short section of 130km/h that express trains will need to slow down for.

As an aside i'm always a bit bemused when there are discussions regarding travel times from Geelong and Ballarat considering they're pretty much on par with travel times of a V/Line service from Pakenham which of course is a suburb of Melbourne.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

One option for SG Ballarat - Warrenheip might be 4-rail (gauntlet) DG rather than 3-rail, assuming there's sufficient room.
  Lockspike Deputy Commissioner

SG Ballarat - Warrenheip has to be included in one form or another.

Is there room for a 3rd track between Warrenheip and Ballarat East?
bevans
Yes, but would take some structural work.
  Lockspike Deputy Commissioner

One option for SG Ballarat - Warrenheip might be 4-rail (gauntlet) DG rather than 3-rail, assuming there's sufficient room.
Hmm, interesting idea; but it would mean specially made longer sleepers, which would require a custom made mould, and 25% more rail compared to dual gauge.
  historian Deputy Commissioner

One option for SG Ballarat - Warrenheip might be 4-rail (gauntlet) DG rather than 3-rail, assuming there's sufficient room.
Hmm, interesting idea; but it would mean specially made longer sleepers, which would require a custom made mould, and 25% more rail compared to dual gauge.
Lockspike

33% increase relative to the base case Smile

AFAIK, the only place it's been done in Victoria was Somerton - Upfield.

No-one was every going to exceed 80 km/h on that section, the reason it was done was to simplify the turnouts to the various sidings.
  ngarner Chief Train Controller

Location: Seville
One option for SG Ballarat - Warrenheip might be 4-rail (gauntlet) DG rather than 3-rail, assuming there's sufficient room.
kitchgp
This could also be an option for the Ballarat to Maryborough line. It would eliminate the concerns about a three rail dual gauge where the get between BG & SG rails gets blocked by something.

Neil
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

From Marcus Wong's Rail Geelong site. Obviously the gaps can be widened to suit, at the expense of more width. Photo taken in 2008.

https://www.railgeelong.com/gallery/geelong-line/franklin-street-junction/D608_0845.jpg.html

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