How the Cranbourne line can be duplicated

 
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

Move the stabling yards to Clyde !

The existing stabling yards wouldn’t work If the railway grade was changed.
Nightfire
Umm Bayswater seems to have no issues with the grade.

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  thekingoffoxes Chief Train Controller

Wait one minute, how did I miss this. Apparently the Dandenong rail upgrade include Cranbourne Partial Duplication, unfortunately there is no map or indication which section that would be
As I understand it, the partial duplication of the Cranbourne Line involves a second track on the Down/Northern side of the existing track extending from the junction with the Pakenham Line until Greens Rd level crossing. Responsibility for this project has been given to the Level Crossing Removal Authority's Caulfield To Dandenong (CTD) project alliance.
LancedDendrite
I checked this out the other day after meaning to for a number of months.


https://youtu.be/-wpBiqaSSB4
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

It's very strange to look back at all my own threads and finding out it ended up happening in the end. XD
Yes, it's been talked about for a while on forums. But lol I put it into rediscussion in recent times.

Yeah, my estimate cost was way too low. I think the official cost is $750 million in the budget, excluding the grade separations.

Good to see it happening. I predicted 2018-2020 lol I'm always too optimistic. But 2023-2025 isn't that bad, considering it was thought to never happen at all.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

Haha, the government decided to rebuild Merinda Park station anyway, lol I remember I suggested it in the beginning lol. Anyways as you guys said the station had provision for the second platform already.

Looks like the government wants a total rebuild of the station so yeah that's interesting to say the least.

https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/upgrading-the-cranbourne-line-to-run-more-services/


Duplication works will start in 2020 and finish in 2023.


Evans Road grade separation will happen first by 2020. Then Greens road grade separation will follow next by 2022.

Camms Road and Webster street should be the last remaining ones to be done by 2025.
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
I would suggest that 'rebuild' is being used in a loose way. Sunshine was rebuilt for the RRL, but the platforms stayed in place with a new bridge over the tracks. The just completed Rockbank rebuild kept most of the platforms and put a new bridge over the top. I'd assume the same here: knocking down the existing station building and putting in a fancy bridge.
  ngarner Assistant Commissioner

Location: Seville
New information released about Melinda park indicates that the existing platform is not going to become an island at all. The plans show two platforms separated by the duplicated tracks including an underpass to connect the two. There's going to be improved access from Endeavour Drive as well. The page discussed aspects of the whole duplication project Merinda Park
Neil
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Has a date been provided to have the line extended to the housing estates to at least Clyde?

Any merit in putting in a hardstand at Clyde area for building materials to be delivered for the development in the area so products can be railed in?
  ARodH Chief Train Controller

Location: East Oakleigh, Vic
New information released about Melinda park indicates that the existing platform is not going to become an island at all. The plans show two platforms separated by the duplicated tracks including an underpass to connect the two. There's going to be improved access from Endeavour Drive as well. The page discussed aspects of the whole duplication project Merinda Park
Neil
ngarner

What!?! The platform is all ready there just needs track and facing for platform 1 and the addition of DDA access ramps, but then I suppose the blueprints to do that for an island platform have been lost hence the "simple plan" of going side platforms.
  ngarner Assistant Commissioner

Location: Seville
Has a date been provided to have the line extended to the housing estates to at least Clyde?
bevans
The only info I recall about a Clyde extension is that it will be post 2023 when Cranbourne duplication is complete, apart from 2 LX removals. There is supposed to be $5 million already allocated for it and planning is supposed to be underway. Not a lot of information beyond that to my knowledge but I could be wrong

Neil
  Braddo Deputy Commissioner

Location: Narre Warren
Evans Road grade separation will happen first by 2020.
True Believers
Yeah, do the road that's not even in use first. Brilliant idea.
  historian Deputy Commissioner

New information released about Melinda park indicates that the existing platform is not going to become an island at all. The plans show two platforms separated by the duplicated tracks including an underpass to connect the two. There's going to be improved access from Endeavour Drive as well. The page discussed aspects of the whole duplication project Merinda Park
Neil

What!?! The platform is all ready there just needs track and facing for platform 1 and the addition of DDA access ramps, but then I suppose the blueprints to do that for an island platform have been lost hence the "simple plan" of going side platforms.
ARodH

Hardly. Side platforms are much preferrable in a modern railway for a standard double track line.

They only need two disabled access points (one on each side of the footbridge or subway); island platforms need three. That extra access point is a significant cost. The lengths of modern ramps makes them expensive, and its difficult to fit them on the island platform (look at Bentleigh), or off. If you want to add lifts, the extra lift is a significant capital cost *and* ongoing maintenance.

Side platforms are far more convenient for the punters. In one direction of travel they don't have to cross the tracks - a major win for the disabled (how long do you think it takes a wheelchair to traverse a modern ramp?). It's possible to have multiple entry and exit points to the platforms. It's way, way, better access for ambulence crews.

It's important to remember that the only reason why island platforms were so popular was that 1) in the good old days, which everyone loved, you only had to have one staff member to sell tickets (and occasionally checking them); and 2) it meant that only one station building with staff and passenger facilities were required. Neither are valid reasons today.
  Adogs Chief Train Controller

Evans Road grade separation will happen first by 2020.
Yeah, do the road that's not even in use first. Brilliant idea.
Braddo

Local community (particularly in Lyndhurst) have wanted Evans Rd reopened for years, it'll make traffic quite a bit better around there, particularly with all the new development immediately south of the railway.  

It's also obviously easier to do the one which doesn't currently have traffic running over it first.
  lkernan Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
Evans Road grade separation will happen first by 2020.
Yeah, do the road that's not even in use first. Brilliant idea.
Braddo
That road has been closed for years because Vicroads considered the old Hallam Road intersection too unsafe.  

Notice how they're rebuilding that intersection at the moment?  Part of the reason is to reopen Evans Road.  
They're doing the smart thing and finishing Evans Road before it opens rather than open it and then close it again to grade sep.

But you know, you're probably smarter than them.
  Braddo Deputy Commissioner

Location: Narre Warren
But you know, you're probably smarter than them.
lkernan
Probably.
  ngarner Assistant Commissioner

Location: Seville
New information has been posted on the LXRP site today. Two contracts have been signed, one from Dandenong to Lynbrook and the other Lynbrook to Cranbourne with work beginning as of today on Greens Rd LX removal.
Lynbrook is going to have additional parking added

Duplication


Neil
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
...with work beginning as of today on Greens Rd LX removal.
ngarner
Level Crossing Removal Project works never really stopped at Greens Rd since CTD (aka Skyrail) kicked off. It’s been a major materials storage site for nearly 5 years now. The real idiocy was not removing Greens Rd at the same time as the adjacent minor duplication works and the Abbots Rd level crossing removal.
  EmrldPhoenix Station Master

Location: Melbourne, VIC
More news on the Cranbourne Line Upgrade.

https://levelcrossings.vic.gov.au/media/publications/cranbourne-line-upgrade-area-update-june-2020
Piling works are set to start at Abbotts Rd in July, and will move to Greens Rd afterwards.

No word yet on the Eumemmerring Creek bridge, but I expect that we will get news on this in 2021 rather than anytime soon.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
More news on the Cranbourne Line Upgrade.

https://levelcrossings.vic.gov.au/media/publications/cranbourne-line-upgrade-area-update-june-2020
Piling works are set to start at Abbotts Rd in July, and will move to Greens Rd afterwards.

No word yet on the Eumemmerring Creek bridge, but I expect that we will get news on this in 2021 rather than anytime soon.
EmrldPhoenix
Eumemmerring Creek bridge Is to be a single span over the whole waterway.

There Is a disused goods siding through Greens Road level crossing, I'm guessing that siding will be cut just short of Greens Road and not be Included In the rail viaduct ?

Does anyone know what's going to happen at Camms Road
  EmrldPhoenix Station Master

Location: Melbourne, VIC
Eumemmerring Creek bridge Is to be a single span over the whole waterway.

There Is a disused goods siding through Greens Road level crossing, I'm guessing that siding will be cut just short of Greens Road and not be Included In the rail viaduct ?

Does anyone know what's going to happen at Camms Road
Nightfire

Is there a timeline on the Eumemmerring Creek bridge yet? It is supposed to be built offsite before being placed into position. It seems likely that installation will be towards the end of the project.

The Kimberley Clark siding doesn't have much of a purpose any more, so I'm guessing they may remove it altogether, and only leave enough rail for the Bombardier siding. EDIT: Please ignore this stupid effing comment.

Camms Rd has been shown to be a road-over-rail solution in some earlier promotional materials. Don't know if that is still the plan, but it is the most likely option going forwards. I'd expect to see further discussions/details around 2021/22 as the current lot of LX removals end.
  lkernan Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
The Kimberley Clark siding doesn't have much of a purpose any more, so I'm guessing they may remove it altogether, and only leave enough rail for the Bombardier siding.
EmrldPhoenix
I was under the impression it had been reinstated last year to load or unload cement containers.  Has that finished already?
  EmrldPhoenix Station Master

Location: Melbourne, VIC
The Kimberley Clark siding doesn't have much of a purpose any more, so I'm guessing they may remove it altogether, and only leave enough rail for the Bombardier siding.
I was under the impression it had been reinstated last year to load or unload cement containers.  Has that finished already?
lkernan
Oh wow, I completely forgot about that. I retract my previous statement.

But I would think that the siding would be reduced in length anyhow. Most of the length next to the mainline isn't being utilised, so I could see the removal of upto 500m of track.
  TrackRailroad Train Controller

Location: Frankston Line
This may have been covered previously and I am aware of the government's intentions to electrify and extend the line to Clyde, but surely it would make sense to do this now as part of the duplication project and the disruptions to the line.

The housing and growth around Clyde is continuing and the line is inadequate to terminate at Cranbourne. Once the line gets better frequency there will be more demand for travel and pressure on car parking at Cranbourne and Merinda Park stations, which would be assisted by an extension to Clyde.
  ngarner Assistant Commissioner

Location: Seville
This may have been covered previously and I am aware of the government's intentions to electrify and extend the line to Clyde, but surely it would make sense to do this now as part of the duplication project and the disruptions to the line.

The housing and growth around Clyde is continuing and the line is inadequate to terminate at Cranbourne. Once the line gets better frequency there will be more demand for travel and pressure on car parking at Cranbourne and Merinda Park stations, which would be assisted by an extension to Clyde.
chi01
The idea is to duplicate to Cranbourne so that the extension to Clyde, which has been effectively promised by Andrews, doesn't suffer from the same limitations that currently mess up the Cranbourne line. As you say, better frequency will increase demand but imagine trying to run an adequate service with only two passing loops, assuming Cranbourne became one, and if not then it would be impossible to maintain, or improve, the timetable.

Neil
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
The Kimberley Clark siding doesn't have much of a purpose any more, so I'm guessing they may remove it altogether, and only leave enough rail for the Bombardier siding.
I was under the impression it had been reinstated last year to load or unload cement containers.  Has that finished already?
Oh wow, I completely forgot about that. I retract my previous statement.

But I would think that the siding would be reduced in length anyhow. Most of the length next to the mainline isn't being utilised, so I could see the removal of upto 500m of track.
EmrldPhoenix
Qube use the siding two times a week to unload a train and use that extra bit to run around the train, as well as spoil trains being unloaded there.
  TrackRailroad Train Controller

Location: Frankston Line
This may have been covered previously and I am aware of the government's intentions to electrify and extend the line to Clyde, but surely it would make sense to do this now as part of the duplication project and the disruptions to the line.

The housing and growth around Clyde is continuing and the line is inadequate to terminate at Cranbourne. Once the line gets better frequency there will be more demand for travel and pressure on car parking at Cranbourne and Merinda Park stations, which would be assisted by an extension to Clyde.
The idea is to duplicate to Cranbourne so that the extension to Clyde, which has been effectively promised by Andrews, doesn't suffer from the same limitations that currently mess up the Cranbourne line. As you say, better frequency will increase demand but imagine trying to run an adequate service with only two passing loops, assuming Cranbourne became one, and if not then it would be impossible to maintain, or improve, the timetable.

Neil
ngarner
Okay that makes sense, I agree that the line needs to be fully duplicated before any additional services are added. It makes sense from my view to do the works now, it will be cheaper now and the demand is there.

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