For our transport system to work properly, bus drivers need to seriously change their attitude

 
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Where the bus is effectively an extension of the train service (such as Lilydale to Healesville or Warburton) then it should not depart until the train arrives and passengers have transferred.  (If the train is late, and the bus is an extension of the service, then the bus must also be late.)  But where the bus just has a stop at a station but is not necessarily a connecting service, that's another story.
Let me pull u up on this one, the Drivers from the Warby and Healesville buses can wait no longer than five minutes after the schedule arrival of the train, after that the PTV has instructed them that they must depart to there destos.
I don't doubt that that's the case, but notice I said "should not depart ....".    It's not right if a passenger has to incur additional expense, such as a taxi fare, through no fault of their own.
Lad_Porter
It's also not right if passengers turning up for a timetabled bus have to sit there for ages waiting for a train when it's not guaranteed that anyone getting off the train will want the bus connection.

How to balance those issues is the challenge. I'm not convinced that a blanket '5 minute' policy is the best method of working it out.

The maximum allowable hold for a connection should, in my opinion, be varied according to the bus service frequency and the proportion of passengers who get on the bus from trains vs local trips. Finally, it should be coordinated such that control can tell a bus driver to depart on time (with local bus-only passengers) if it is already clear that the incoming train will be so late that it will miss the maximum hold for the connection.

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  historian Deputy Commissioner

It's not right if a passenger has to incur additional expense, such as a taxi fare, through no fault of their own.
Lad_Porter

The much loved private railway companies in the UK sorted that one in the 19th century.

Legally, all the passenger had purchased was travel from station A to station B. There was no legal obligation on the railway companies for trains to leave when the timetable said they would, arrive when they said they would, or connect with anything. There was consequently no compensation if you didn't get to your destination when you were supposed to, even if delays cost you extra.

The situation in Victoria is based on the same laws (and attitudes).
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

It's not right if a passenger has to incur additional expense, such as a taxi fare, through no fault of their own.

The much loved private railway companies in the UK sorted that one in the 19th century.

Legally, all the passenger had purchased was travel from station A to station B. There was no legal obligation on the railway companies for trains to leave when the timetable said they would, arrive when they said they would, or connect with anything. There was consequently no compensation if you didn't get to your destination when you were supposed to, even if delays cost you extra.

The situation in Victoria is based on the same laws (and attitudes).
historian
Isn't the current Myki system essentially zone ticketing, i.e. if they take you to any station (or bus stop) in the zone they have fulfilled their contract?
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

Where the bus is effectively an extension of the train service (such as Lilydale to Healesville or Warburton) then it should not depart until the train arrives and passengers have transferred.  (If the train is late, and the bus is an extension of the service, then the bus must also be late.)  But where the bus just has a stop at a station but is not necessarily a connecting service, that's another story.
Let me pull u up on this one, the Drivers from the Warby and Healesville buses can wait no longer than five minutes after the schedule arrival of the train, after that the PTV has instructed them that they must depart to there destos.
I don't doubt that that's the case, but notice I said "should not depart ....".    It's not right if a passenger has to incur additional expense, such as a taxi fare, through no fault of their own.
Lad_Porter
a play for words, and it is not right for passengers on the bus to wait too long a a late running choochoo……………..
  Lad_Porter Chief Commissioner

Location: Yarra Glen
The point I was making is that the bus services (specifically from Lilydale to Healesville and Warburton) are train replacement services.  They were introduced when the corresponding rail services were discontinued, and they were supposed to offer a similar level of service.  As far as I know, back in the day, the waiting DERM (or whatever) would always wait for the spark to arrive, but this level of service evidently has not been replaced.  

It's a major difficulty if you are coming home from work, your train is delayed by more than five minutes (which can happen, believe it or not......), and the last bus of the evening departs before the train arrives.  Options then are to pay for a taxi, or to call home and ask someone to come down to Lilydale and pick you up.  Either option may be difficult or not possible.    

I agree it's a difficult problem, for all the reasons already stated, and of course the buses need to run to their own timetables.  But destinations beyond Lilydale are in zone 3, as is Lilydale itself, so you have already paid for a zone 3 fare to get to your destination.  So maybe Metro, or PTV, should pay for the taxi.......???
  route14 Chief Commissioner

I agree fully.  Sunbury buses are a lot better in this regard, at least before electrification.  The last buses on each route would wait for the late running V/Line for up to 10 minutes, and if the connecting train was more than 10 minutes late, buses would depart on time but would run an additional round trip.
  Altona Loopy Station Master

Almost daily user of the Route 411 / 412 bus that "connects" with Down Werribee trains and runs from Laverton to Footscray via Altona and Altona Meadows. There are dedicated bus bays off street for these services at Laverton.

Three things annoy me about this service and bus services in general:

1. When multiple train passengers are alighting and running through the car park towards the bus bays, the bus will often leave bang on time and ignore the CUSTOMERS. Yes, I have complained by phone to the bus company's operations manager. Yes, he was horrified and promised more instructions to the drivers to improve this situation. It has improved a little but is still far from perfect. And yes, the driver can see the passengers where he is parked.
2. There are multiple bus bays for the various routes but rarely more than 2 buses at a time in the bays. Often an early arriving bus will park in a different bay, showing "Special" on its destination board and only pull into its designated departure bay at the time of departure and change its destination board. I assume the driver is exercising his or her right to a "break". Meanwhile, a dozen or so passengers often endure the 40 degree heat or heavy rain huddled in a single bus shelter waiting for their bus only 20 metres away.
3. Of the passengers boarding, I estimate only a third "touch on" as required. Kids don't, the unwashed don't and the cheats don't. I don't blame the drivers for not requesting they do so or insist on them buying a ticket but............? I hear PTV say their ticket inspectors patrol the entire PT system but in 15 years travelling on this bus nearly every work day, I have NEVER seen a ticket inspector on board.
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

The point I was making is that the bus services (specifically from Lilydale to Healesville and Warburton) are train replacement services.  They were introduced when the corresponding rail services were discontinued, and they were supposed to offer a similar level of service.  As far as I know, back in the day, the waiting DERM (or whatever) would always wait for the spark to arrive, but this level of service evidently has not been replaced.  

It's a major difficulty if you are coming home from work, your train is delayed by more than five minutes (which can happen, believe it or not......), and the last bus of the evening departs before the train arrives.  Options then are to pay for a taxi, or to call home and ask someone to come down to Lilydale and pick you up.  Either option may be difficult or not possible.    

I agree it's a difficult problem, for all the reasons already stated, and of course the buses need to run to their own timetables.  But destinations beyond Lilydale are in zone 3, as is Lilydale itself, so you have already paid for a zone 3 fare to get to your destination.  So maybe Metro, or PTV, should pay for the taxi.......???
Lad_Porter
Healesville and Warburton are both in Zone 2, have been for a long long time, no chochoos to Warburton since Dec 1964 and Healesville since 1980, also the buses are providing more regular services, so stop yar nick picking and catch the later service., whinging at its best.
  stooge spark Chief Train Controller

Location: My House

1. When multiple train passengers are alighting and running through the car park towards the bus bays, the bus will often leave bang on time and ignore the CUSTOMERS. Yes, I have complained by phone to the bus company's operations manager. Yes, he was horrified and promised more instructions to the drivers to improve this situation. It has improved a little but is still far from perfect. And yes, the driver can see the passengers where he is parked.
Altona Loopy
It's a lose lose situation for them, if they leave on time they get pissed off commuters, if they let the commuters in then some cheat down the road will give em a whole load of spit talking.
  MrBiggles Station Master

Yes, I have complained by phone to the bus company's operations manager. Yes, he was horrified and promised more instructions to the drivers to improve this situation. It has improved a little but is still far from perfect. And yes, the driver can see the passengers where he is parked.
Altona Loopy
Complaining to the bus company is useless, you should complain directly to PTV.
As most people know, at the moment, "figures" are more important than passengers when it comes to contracts with the state government.
One of the key "figures" that they need to satisfy to the government is "customer satisfaction".
Every complaint that is made to the government affects the bus companies customer satisfaction figures.
You need to make your complaint via PTV and do it every time it happens. Every complaint affects their customer satisfaction figures. Once their figures start getting bad then they will be made to do something about it.
Remember, don't complain just once, complain every time it happens.

Here's the link.

https://feedback.ptv.vic.gov.au/ptv-feedback

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