Adani changes to narrow gauge

 
  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

Sulla do you know where construction of the railway is at present?
Is it still a paper railway at present or have they pegged it out and started clearing the vegetation?
Sunbird

As far as I know, work started a number of months ago and Adani is planning on shipping coal within the next 16-months. The area where the line is being built is quite remote so information on the extent of construction is almost non-existant. Even Google isn't helpful, as its satelite imagery doesn't even show Aurizon's Goonyella-Abbot Point Line (the GAP) opened in December 2011.

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  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

Newlands is controlled from Aurizon's operational headquarters in Rockhampton, in the former Central Division office tower beside the Rockhampton station.

Adani has previously announced its train operations will be based in Bowen, so unless it works out an alternative with Aurizon, Adani will most likely control its branch from a location in or near Bowen.

Why would Adani not just outsource train control to Aurizon or QR why would they want to do all that themselves for a branch line?

I recall (I was told) Some Pilbara lines for a while were controlled by FA in Melbourne.  I guess it is possible for anyone to bid for that business across the country.
bevans
Adani's exisiting plans have been complicated by years of political wrangling and delays, so things tend not to make a lot of sense anymore. The short story - Adani likes keeping everything in house as a vertically integrated business; it also has an agreement with the Queensland Government to base its rail operations in Bowen; and it was planning on building an entirely separate, independent rail line until recently, the planning for which was likely completed some time ago - so there's a few holdovers from the past.

Even though the line will be only 189km long, and serving just one 10-million tonne/annum mine, it probably still makes sense to Adani to control access and signalling for as long as it owns the below rail infrastructure - which it has to provide as open access. Assuming other mines start using Adani's line, it stands to recoup most if not all of its costs through access fees - Aurizon makes around $600-million annually from access fees, so no point Adani sharing its own access profits if it doesn't have to.

Meanwhile, the Bowen Rail Company has begun advertising for senior roles - to be based in Bowen for a "greenfields rail operation business".

https://www.seek.com.au/job/40814194?cid=ios-share&fbclid=IwAR0tvnVTJZyJpJ3dcPtmlCyU4KBOiZsvIOT68dse2cc9b8tWHq--JCuB5Og
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Newlands is controlled from Aurizon's operational headquarters in Rockhampton, in the former Central Division office tower beside the Rockhampton station.

Adani has previously announced its train operations will be based in Bowen, so unless it works out an alternative with Aurizon, Adani will most likely control its branch from a location in or near Bowen.

Why would Adani not just outsource train control to Aurizon or QR why would they want to do all that themselves for a branch line?
bevans
Someone said before Adani is Indian and Indian companies still operate very much vertical integrated because in India you often need to have direct control over your supply chain, not just core business.
  Sunbird Station Master

You were certainly correct Sulla when you described the area the line traverses as "quite remote".
However on the map I have it does appear to cross both the Suttor Development Road and the Gregory Development Road.
Both these highways will require grade separated crossings so there should be visible activity to be seen.
If anybody driving past these locations could give a progress report (or lack there of) I would appreciate it thanks.
  Carnot Minister for Railways
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Adani are a bunch of shonks and vandals:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-06/adani-to-plead-guilty-court-qld/11932640
Carnot
Obviously not a good look, but nothing that unusual either.
  KRviator Moderator

Location: Up the front
Obviously not a good look, but nothing that unusual either.
RTT_Rules

Complete agree - Adani have a track record of ignoring their obligations under their environmental licences and have shown utter disdain for the Australian environment during their operations here so far...

Here's the marine wetlands adjacent their Abbot Point terminal before they discharged 8 times the amount of sediment they were permitted to:


Aaaannndd after:

Oh, and the penalty for doing so?
$12,000 AUD - and no, I didn't miss a few zero's. A pi$$-weak $12 grand fine.
  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

Obviously not a good look, but nothing that unusual either.

Complete agree - Adani have a track record of ignoring their obligations under their environmental licences and have shown utter disdain for the Australian environment during their operations here so far...

Here's the marine wetlands adjacent their Abbot Point terminal before they discharged 8 times the amount of sediment they were permitted to:


Aaaannndd after:

Oh, and the penalty for doing so?
$12,000 AUD - and no, I didn't miss a few zero's. A pi$$-weak $12 grand fine.
KRviator

I'm no fan of Adani and its practices, but that spill occurred under the extreme conditions of a Category 4 Cyclone and 400mm of rain falling in less than 24-hours. The wetlands are also man-made and less then forty years old - however there's substatial wildlife diversity living there. Much was made of this spill, but I doubt any coal handling facility in Australia could have avoided spillage under these conditions. Cyclone Debbie was a monster cyclone that flooded every river between Bowen and Rockhampton, destroyed hundreds of buildings, and is the most powerful storm to ever hit a modern export port facility on the east coast of Australia.
  KRviator Moderator

Location: Up the front
I'm no fan of Adani and its practices, but that spill occurred under the extreme conditions of a Category 4 Cyclone and 400mm of rain falling in less than 24-hours. The wetlands are also man-made and less then forty years old - however there's substatial wildlife diversity living there. Much was made of this spill, but I doubt any coal handling facility in Australia could have avoided spillage under these conditions. Cyclone Debbie was a monster cyclone that flooded every river between Bowen and Rockhampton, destroyed hundreds of buildings, and is the most powerful storm to ever hit a modern export port facility on the east coast of Australia.
Sulla1
As I understand the incident, Adani applied to increase their discharge limit knowing the cyclone would result in an un-containable release of coal slurry, then applied to increase it again, both of which were granted. Adani then breached the amended, increased limit by a factor of 8.

Happy to be corrected, but if they knew they were going to need X, why not apply for X instead of Y, unless they knew if they were truthful they would not have got approval at all? "It's better to ask forgiveness, than for permission..."
  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

I'm no fan of Adani and its practices, but that spill occurred under the extreme conditions of a Category 4 Cyclone and 400mm of rain falling in less than 24-hours. The wetlands are also man-made and less then forty years old - however there's substatial wildlife diversity living there. Much was made of this spill, but I doubt any coal handling facility in Australia could have avoided spillage under these conditions. Cyclone Debbie was a monster cyclone that flooded every river between Bowen and Rockhampton, destroyed hundreds of buildings, and is the most powerful storm to ever hit a modern export port facility on the east coast of Australia.
As I understand the incident, Adani applied to increase their discharge limit knowing the cyclone would result in an un-containable release of coal slurry, then applied to increase it again, both of which were granted. Adani then breached the amended, increased limit by a factor of 8.

Happy to be corrected, but if they knew they were going to need X, why not apply for X instead of Y, unless they knew if they were truthful they would not have got approval at all? "It's better to ask forgiveness, than for permission..."
KRviator

That's true, but Debbie didn't follow its expected behaviour and stalled over the coast for 24-hours rather than moving quickly across the coast and inland. The BoM was caught out by this just as much as all other agencies in the region. As a result four times the predicted rain fell over Bowen, which at least partly explains the port operator making applications based on predicted rainfalls that were then dwarfed by what actually fell.

Green groups also claimed that the spill went into the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park, due to black sediment on the surrounding beaches, which received national press coverage. Tests later carried out by the Marine Park Authority concluded the the black stain was natural mud washed up from the seabed by the cyclonic winds.

Every group, from every ideology has some barrow to push when it comes to Adani - and a lot of published material about the company - both from the antagonists and the supporters - must be carefully considered in the context of the moment it was published.
  Sunbird Station Master

I'm no fan of Adani and its practices, but that spill occurred under the extreme conditions of a Category 4 Cyclone and 400mm of rain falling in less than 24-hours. The wetlands are also man-made and less then forty years old - however there's substatial wildlife diversity living there. Much was made of this spill, but I doubt any coal handling facility in Australia could have avoided spillage under these conditions. Cyclone Debbie was a monster cyclone that flooded every river between Bowen and Rockhampton, destroyed hundreds of buildings, and is the most powerful storm to ever hit a modern export port facility on the east coast of Australia.
As I understand the incident, Adani applied to increase their discharge limit knowing the cyclone would result in an un-containable release of coal slurry, then applied to increase it again, both of which were granted. Adani then breached the amended, increased limit by a factor of 8.

Happy to be corrected, but if they knew they were going to need X, why not apply for X instead of Y, unless they knew if they were truthful they would not have got approval at all? "It's better to ask forgiveness, than for permission..."
KRviator
The reason you understand the incident the way you do is because you believe the word of the green groups and their supporters in the media.
They like to use emotive terms like "coal slurry" but its just coal dust mixed with a lot of rain water. Notice how there are no stories of the environmental destruction all this "coal slurry" caused? That's because there wasn't any, it was just the same amount of coal dust mixed with a lot more rain water. The size of the fine reflected this fact.
The black after picture you posted is certainly emotive but after a day or two the coal dust will settle to the bottom and it will again be clear. The wetland was created for just this task.
The green groups of course know this but they have an agenda to shut down the coal industry completely so they choose to beat it up.
You should also know that the Labor government up here gives all non essential public servants the day off whenever there is a big rain event. Its quite possible the Adani manager in charge of the pumps had no one from the government he could call to get an increase.
  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

Latest video from Adani showing rail corridor under construction and the site works for the camp for the rail line construction crew.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2954610927928794&id=737553219634587
  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

The first of Martinus Rail's two DCPs, 4571, has broken cover at KiwiRail's Hutt Workshops (Wellington) in its new Martinus Rail livery. DCP 4444 is set to follow. No word yet on when these two will arrive for rail construction.

Clearing for the 189km Adani corridor has begun near Leichhardt Range, the nearest crossing loop on Aurizon's GAP (Goonyella-Abbot Point) line between Newlands and Goonyella.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
The wetlands are also man-made and less then forty years old
Sulla1
Were they man made as part of some conservation agreement where they had to be made to allow other development to occur?  If yes then this is just as good as damaging a natural wetland system.
  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

The wetlands were created for duck hunting. Duck hunting is now banned in Queensland.
  lkernan Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
The first of Martinus Rail's two DCPs, 4571, has broken cover at KiwiRail's Hutt Workshops (Wellington) in its new Martinus Rail livery. DCP 4444 is set to follow. No word yet on when these two will arrive for rail construction.
Sulla1

Hutt working on locos for Australia? it's 1999 all over again!
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
More contracts for the build now being signed. https://t.co/gMatkMPnld?amp=1

Across the entire 200km network 26,147 tonnes of steel will be used and 319,000 sleepers will be laid. The entire project will include 460 culverts, 17 bridges over waterways, two road over rail bridges, 68 railway crossings, and local road upgrades.
Somebody

I am assuming the steel is coming from Whyalla? if so this will be some nice traffic for PN.

The sleepers from where?
  Freightmate Beginner

Curious to hear others’ read on where Adani are at lately. The new contracts for Martinus and BMD are a good sign that work on the rail line is moving into the next phase - but have any of you seen any further signs that Dow and Adani might be leaning toward self hauling (as Sulla1 said, Adani loves vertical integration)? They would need to build their own maintenance yards - have any of you seen any plans/signals for that?
  Freightmate Beginner

More contracts for the build now being signed. https://t.co/gMatkMPnld?amp=1

Across the entire 200km network 26,147 tonnes of steel will be used and 319,000 sleepers will be laid. The entire project will include 460 culverts, 17 bridges over waterways, two road over rail bridges, 68 railway crossings, and local road upgrades.

I am assuming the steel is coming from Whyalla? if so this will be some nice traffic for PN.

The sleepers from where?
bevans
Heard the sleepers coming from Austrak out of Rocky.
  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

Curious to hear others’ read on where Adani are at lately. The new contracts for Martinus and BMD are a good sign that work on the rail line is moving into the next phase - but have any of you seen any further signs that Dow and Adani might be leaning toward self hauling (as Sulla1 said, Adani loves vertical integration)? They would need to build their own maintenance yards - have any of you seen any plans/signals for that?
Freightmate

Rail corridor construction is now underway for several kilometres from Newlands Junction and through Leichhardt Range parallel to and beside Aurizon's GAP (Goonyella-Abbot Point) line. Positions in the Bowen admin and network control centre were being advertised recently. Martinus Rail has purchased two DC class locomotives from KiwiRail for track laying.

I haven't seen any plans for them yet, but I would suspect if any yards or maintenance facilities are built, they'll be somewhere on the the Adani line rather than closer to Bowen on Aurizon's network. Yard facilities on the section between Newlands Junction and Leichhardt Range would allow for reasonable access from either Collinsville or Glenden - or at the Carmichael Mine site served by FIFO or DIDO staff.

Alternatively, like PN, Adani may choose to use Aurizon's Pring yard for staging trains to enter Abbot Point or to enter the Newlands System.

I'm pretty sure Adani will order and operate its own equipment at some point - based on start-up tonnages that would be three 126-wagon sets and twelve locomotives, plus one or two spares. Of course, all the costs Adani has struck getting to this stage, it may be cheaper for it to just negotiate haulage contracts with Aurizon or PN. Pacific National is on record being interested in the tonnages on offer.
  lkernan Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
From their website, might be a fun little modelling project at some point.
  Freightmate Beginner

Curious to hear others’ read on where Adani are at lately. The new contracts for Martinus and BMD are a good sign that work on the rail line is moving into the next phase - but have any of you seen any further signs that Dow and Adani might be leaning toward self hauling (as Sulla1 said, Adani loves vertical integration)? They would need to build their own maintenance yards - have any of you seen any plans/signals for that?

Rail corridor construction is now underway for several kilometres from Newlands Junction and through Leichhardt Range parallel to and beside Aurizon's GAP (Goonyella-Abbot Point) line. Positions in the Bowen admin and network control centre were being advertised recently. Martinus Rail has purchased two DC class locomotives from KiwiRail for track laying.

I haven't seen any plans for them yet, but I would suspect if any yards or maintenance facilities are built, they'll be somewhere on the the Adani line rather than closer to Bowen on Aurizon's network. Yard facilities on the section between Newlands Junction and Leichhardt Range would allow for reasonable access from either Collinsville or Glenden - or at the Carmichael Mine site served by FIFO or DIDO staff.

Alternatively, like PN, Adani may choose to use Aurizon's Pring yard for staging trains to enter Abbot Point or to enter the Newlands System.

I'm pretty sure Adani will order and operate its own equipment at some point - based on start-up tonnages that would be three 126-wagon sets and twelve locomotives, plus one or two spares. Of course, all the costs Adani has struck getting to this stage, it may be cheaper for it to just negotiate haulage contracts with Aurizon or PN. Pacific National is on record being interested in the tonnages on offer.
Sulla1
Thanks Sulla,

Are these plans showing a yard near Moray Carmichael Road (pg 20) not up to date? This yard could be set up for use by Aurizon or PN if they were to haul for Adani? and not necessarily mean that Adani plan to self-haul.

I agree with you on Adani self hauling -- if Dow managed to meet an agreement with Aurizon or PN then he'd be tooting his horn about it.

Which makes me wonder - if Adani self haul for part of the line, who are they more likely to want to negotiate with? They'll need to reach an access agreement with Aurizon and as you've said Aurizon will likely have to upgrade its existing line to handle higher capacity.

Since PN is happy to haul then in my mind the sticking point must be Aurizon..
  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

Curious to hear others’ read on where Adani are at lately. The new contracts for Martinus and BMD are a good sign that work on the rail line is moving into the next phase - but have any of you seen any further signs that Dow and Adani might be leaning toward self hauling (as Sulla1 said, Adani loves vertical integration)? They would need to build their own maintenance yards - have any of you seen any plans/signals for that?

Rail corridor construction is now underway for several kilometres from Newlands Junction and through Leichhardt Range parallel to and beside Aurizon's GAP (Goonyella-Abbot Point) line. Positions in the Bowen admin and network control centre were being advertised recently. Martinus Rail has purchased two DC class locomotives from KiwiRail for track laying.

I haven't seen any plans for them yet, but I would suspect if any yards or maintenance facilities are built, they'll be somewhere on the the Adani line rather than closer to Bowen on Aurizon's network. Yard facilities on the section between Newlands Junction and Leichhardt Range would allow for reasonable access from either Collinsville or Glenden - or at the Carmichael Mine site served by FIFO or DIDO staff.

Alternatively, like PN, Adani may choose to use Aurizon's Pring yard for staging trains to enter Abbot Point or to enter the Newlands System.

I'm pretty sure Adani will order and operate its own equipment at some point - based on start-up tonnages that would be three 126-wagon sets and twelve locomotives, plus one or two spares. Of course, all the costs Adani has struck getting to this stage, it may be cheaper for it to just negotiate haulage contracts with Aurizon or PN. Pacific National is on record being interested in the tonnages on offer.
Thanks Sulla,

Are these plans showing a yard near Moray Carmichael Road (pg 20) not up to date? This yard could be set up for use by Aurizon or PN if they were to haul for Adani? and not necessarily mean that Adani plan to self-haul.

I agree with you on Adani self hauling -- if Dow managed to meet an agreement with Aurizon or PN then he'd be tooting his horn about it.

Which makes me wonder - if Adani self haul for part of the line, who are they more likely to want to negotiate with? They'll need to reach an access agreement with Aurizon and as you've said Aurizon will likely have to upgrade its existing line to handle higher capacity.

Since PN is happy to haul then in my mind the sticking point must be Aurizon..
Freightmate

I couldn't get that link, but I've found another on-line document confirming locomotive servicing and maintenance (presumably a yard of some sort) will be at the Carmichael Mine site covering an area of 280-hectares.

I now believe Adani is pressing forward with employing above rail operating staff, so it would seem very likely the company will self haul with its own rollingstock. With production expected to begin within the next twelve months, that should mean the new rollingstock has been ordered and will be arriving landside at some point late this year or early next year.

The link also contains additional operating information for the line, including an 80km/h operating speed and the use of RCS (CTC signalling).

https://www.mining-technology.com/projects/carmichael-coal-mine-and-rail-project-queensland/
  Freightmate Beginner

Curious to hear others’ read on where Adani are at lately. The new contracts for Martinus and BMD are a good sign that work on the rail line is moving into the next phase - but have any of you seen any further signs that Dow and Adani might be leaning toward self hauling (as Sulla1 said, Adani loves vertical integration)? They would need to build their own maintenance yards - have any of you seen any plans/signals for that?

Rail corridor construction is now underway for several kilometres from Newlands Junction and through Leichhardt Range parallel to and beside Aurizon's GAP (Goonyella-Abbot Point) line. Positions in the Bowen admin and network control centre were being advertised recently. Martinus Rail has purchased two DC class locomotives from KiwiRail for track laying.

I haven't seen any plans for them yet, but I would suspect if any yards or maintenance facilities are built, they'll be somewhere on the the Adani line rather than closer to Bowen on Aurizon's network. Yard facilities on the section between Newlands Junction and Leichhardt Range would allow for reasonable access from either Collinsville or Glenden - or at the Carmichael Mine site served by FIFO or DIDO staff.

Alternatively, like PN, Adani may choose to use Aurizon's Pring yard for staging trains to enter Abbot Point or to enter the Newlands System.

I'm pretty sure Adani will order and operate its own equipment at some point - based on start-up tonnages that would be three 126-wagon sets and twelve locomotives, plus one or two spares. Of course, all the costs Adani has struck getting to this stage, it may be cheaper for it to just negotiate haulage contracts with Aurizon or PN. Pacific National is on record being interested in the tonnages on offer.
Thanks Sulla,

Are these plans showing a yard near Moray Carmichael Road (pg 20) not up to date? This yard could be set up for use by Aurizon or PN if they were to haul for Adani? and not necessarily mean that Adani plan to self-haul.

I agree with you on Adani self hauling -- if Dow managed to meet an agreement with Aurizon or PN then he'd be tooting his horn about it.

Which makes me wonder - if Adani self haul for part of the line, who are they more likely to want to negotiate with? They'll need to reach an access agreement with Aurizon and as you've said Aurizon will likely have to upgrade its existing line to handle higher capacity.

Since PN is happy to haul then in my mind the sticking point must be Aurizon..

I couldn't get that link, but I've found another on-line document confirming locomotive servicing and maintenance (presumably a yard of some sort) will be at the Carmichael Mine site covering an area of 280-hectares.

I now believe Adani is pressing forward with employing above rail operating staff, so it would seem very likely the company will self haul with its own rollingstock. With production expected to begin within the next twelve months, that should mean the new rollingstock has been ordered and will be arriving landside at some point late this year or early next year.

The link also contains additional operating information for the line, including an 80km/h operating speed and the use of RCS (CTC signalling).

https://www.mining-technology.com/projects/carmichael-coal-mine-and-rail-project-queensland/
Sulla1
Here's the link; http://eisdocs.dsdip.qld.gov.au/Carmichael%20Coal%20Mine%20and%20Rail/EIS/EIS/Rail%20Chapters/02-project-description-rail.pdf

Page 20 has a map with a Maintenance yard close to Moray Carmichael Rd.

Where do you think they will base their RCS from?
  Sulla1 Chief Commissioner

The RCS control centre is supposed to be in Bowen as far as I know. Senior operations positions were advertised earlier this year with Bowen as the employment location, while Adani committed to the State Government a few years ago that operations and network control would be based in Bowen.

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