3801 Boiler and it's return to operation

 
  studdo Locomotive Fireman

3827 hauled a day train to Coota return, shortly before withdrawal. 80 mph running?
And some mechanical lubricator was dodgy and hand operated with fence wire.
May have red in ‘38’ , might dig it out and check.
Re Picton Mossy trials, 3830 and 42101.

Edit from 20/12/2016


 studdoStation Master
raymcd's post is almost certainly right - from memory, John Thompson's 38 class book refers to 3827 doing 89.6 mph on the 1970 Coota tour (if my memory is faulty, I apologise). I was a volunteer at Enfield in 1971 and some of the other volunteers went on the 1971 tour with 3820 - they timed 3820 at between 88-92 mph before its big end gave out. My father timed a 38 at 39 seconds to the mile on a down Flyer in the late 1940s, I think that would be low 90s. Can't vouch for its accuracy because he probably used his wristwatch but it's still fast. We'll probably never know just how fast those engines were but some of the tours of the early 70s are memories I will treasure forever. Would be very interested to hear from former railwaymen and enthusiasts from the 60s.
I will check my copy as well.
In my time at Enfield as a volunteer there quite a few 38 cl fanatics, sadly a few of whom are no longer with us. Two that came up as good performers were 03 and 15 (15 won Round House's award as the 38 of the year for 1964). 3830 was also highly regarded. At the other end were 11 and particularly 24, some also had reservations about 08 and 10. As I understand it, withdrawal was based on expiry of boiler life rather than on mechanical condition which explains why 30 was withdrawn relatively early while 24 remained in service longer than it should have. There is an oblique reference in John Thompson's 38 book to 3811 at p 119 that suggests 11 was not a great performer.
Of the RTM's 38s, 01 was certainly regarded as the poorest performer and 13 as better than 20 but not by much. I have very fond memories of 3813 doing 85mph ("these engines are capable of 85 mph, but 70 is the maximum track speed permissible" - from Monarch of the Rails) between Penrith and Parramatta on the return of an ARHS tour to Wimbledon in March 1971. The reference to 3827 doing 89.6mph is at p 159 in "38".
3827 certainly had a special place in the hearts of the 38cl fanatics at Enfield, starting I think with it doing the Broadmeadow-Sydney return leg of the Werris Creek tour of 1969. I wonder though whether part of the reason for its fame was being in the right place at the right time. It was withdrawn in November 1969 and then did 3 tours before scrapping - to Orange, the legendary 'Coota tour in January 1970 and to Taree in February 1970. Having been withdrawn and about to be scrapped it didn't matter whether it was flogged to death which might partly explain its outstanding performances. Of course, it still had to be up to doing it. Thompson's book regards it as the best of the 38s, eg p 121 in "38".
I also had a re-read of John Thompson's book regarding the Coota tour also noted his comment about 27 under a photo in an earlier page. For me I assume, he gave a personal view based I would say on the Coota tour.  The Coota tour had a very experienced driver in Clive Clease who was also an acting locomotive inspector at the time and later became a senior inspector, no mention of who the fireman was but both were from Goulburn.  Reading the Coota tour report in the book provides a fair bit of detail regarding the events and some adversities they experienced on the trip, something that was both common and uncommon at times, certainly the work on the lubricators arm is a classic but not unknown for that to happen on the Mechanical lubricators.

From a personal perspective I would be loathe to pick out one single engine from a class as being the best, and how that belief was formed, especially from the outside looking in rather than the inside looking out.   One other aspect in this is to consider the load that 27 had, and it was very light (as I have put the book away) around well under what would have been the load for a 38cl on pax working on both primary sections, Sydney - Goulburn - Goulburn - Coota and return, on that scale it would have helped in getting performance levels and speed overall.  Both load and how many carriages on the train makes a big difference as to how a loco performs.

I mentioned 3x38 before that I found to be the best of all those I worked on, and they were each on full goods load and length trains from Enfield to Goulburn and return. I also mentioned some others that I worked on that were ok but not as good as the first 3.  I worked on more than that list, and 12 we had slipping issues with on a workers train to Sig Shops at Chullora, it had hollow wheels and was set aside once we got back to Loco Enfield.

For me, the worst of the 38's was 01 after its RTS from Cardiff. For whatever reason it did not seem to have the power as others, when it finished its trials on passenger working which automatically allowed it to work goods trains, which some enthusiasts did not like and in an RTM bulletin it was set straight as to the reason behind it, all this because the RTM contributed towards its overhaul.  I worked on 01 to Goulburn, and it seemed sluggish even at top BP, also the screw was out further than was usual by two notches, the driver reported that at Glbn. Some weeks later, with the same driver and well known author and expert we were sent to Clyde Up yard to relief the incoming crew on 392 Pick up. The drivers as usual conversed with each other and the incoming driver commented about it being weak, the load behind 01 was a full length of 55x4 wheelers and load of 1000tonnes, the load for 36/38 and goods engines from Moss Vale to the metro area, so no problems should have been had.

On getting into the cab the shunters waved us up so that we could shunt the wagons off that were needed to come off. with a full head of steam, 01 refused to lift the load and only slipped at every attempt. After more than half dozen attempts one of the 50cl on the yard shunter was brought down and coupled up and assisted us up the yard. Over 200 tonnes were dropped off and we left to go to Enfield, on departure it still slipped.

Rumours had it that there was issues with the way the cylinders and valve timings had been adjusted or other items carried out at Cardiff.  Most crews tended to be of common belief that it had a lot of bark to it but little bite.

Most engines allocated to the West were well maintained as were those at Eveliegh and Enfield, even to the extent of them being kept clean, black oiled every second day and a full dry wipe on the intermediate days.  Those allocated to BMD were ok maintained but did not seem to be as maintained as well as those at the other depots, and certainly very rarely did they get a good clean.

When working on the south, I personally preferred a pig over a 38c, except for 3658 which was a total dog of an engine and Glbn crews called it a smeg. OTOH, the 59cl were a wonderful replacement for the pigs and only had one with an issue that was caused by a slack fuelman at Moss Vale.

PS. I in no way want to discredit the view of the 38cl books author and his view of 3827, all have their individual favourites and often based on what they have experienced one way or another.  The comment regarding 3801 on its Perth run and finishing the trip on one cylinder gives credit to the engine and the crew, none less the locomotive inspector the Late Ian Thornton a personal friend of mine.  Someone sorely missed by all who knew, worked and tripped with.
a6et
PS the composition was same as for 3827 in 1970

Sponsored advertisement

  a6et Minister for Railways

In my time at Enfield as a volunteer there quite a few 38 cl fanatics, sadly a few of whom are no longer with us. Two that came up as good performers were 03 and 15 (15 won Round House's award as the 38 of the year for 1964). 3830 was also highly regarded. At the other end were 11 and particularly 24, some also had reservations about 08 and 10. As I understand it, withdrawal was based on expiry of boiler life rather than on mechanical condition which explains why 30 was withdrawn relatively early while 24 remained in service longer than it should have. There is an oblique reference in John Thompson's 38 book to 3811 at p 119 that suggests 11 was not a great performer.
Of the RTM's 38s, 01 was certainly regarded as the poorest performer and 13 as better than 20 but not by much. I have very fond memories of 3813 doing 85mph ("these engines are capable of 85 mph, but 70 is the maximum track speed permissible" - from Monarch of the Rails) between Penrith and Parramatta on the return of an ARHS tour to Wimbledon in March 1971. The reference to 3827 doing 89.6mph is at p 159 in "38".
3827 certainly had a special place in the hearts of the 38cl fanatics at Enfield, starting I think with it doing the Broadmeadow-Sydney return leg of the Werris Creek tour of 1969. I wonder though whether part of the reason for its fame was being in the right place at the right time. It was withdrawn in November 1969 and then did 3 tours before scrapping - to Orange, the legendary 'Coota tour in January 1970 and to Taree in February 1970. Having been withdrawn and about to be scrapped it didn't matter whether it was flogged to death which might partly explain its outstanding performances. Of course, it still had to be up to doing it. Thompson's book regards it as the best of the 38s, eg p 121 in "38".
I also had a re-read of John Thompson's book regarding the Coota tour also noted his comment about 27 under a photo in an earlier page. For me I assume, he gave a personal view based I would say on the Coota tour.  The Coota tour had a very experienced driver in Clive Clease who was also an acting locomotive inspector at the time and later became a senior inspector, no mention of who the fireman was but both were from Goulburn.  Reading the Coota tour report in the book provides a fair bit of detail regarding the events and some adversities they experienced on the trip, something that was both common and uncommon at times, certainly the work on the lubricators arm is a classic but not unknown for that to happen on the Mechanical lubricators.

From a personal perspective I would be loathe to pick out one single engine from a class as being the best, and how that belief was formed, especially from the outside looking in rather than the inside looking out.   One other aspect in this is to consider the load that 27 had, and it was very light (as I have put the book away) around well under what would have been the load for a 38cl on pax working on both primary sections, Sydney - Goulburn - Goulburn - Coota and return, on that scale it would have helped in getting performance levels and speed overall.  Both load and how many carriages on the train makes a big difference as to how a loco performs.

I mentioned 3x38 before that I found to be the best of all those I worked on, and they were each on full goods load and length trains from Enfield to Goulburn and return. I also mentioned some others that I worked on that were ok but not as good as the first 3.  I worked on more than that list, and 12 we had slipping issues with on a workers train to Sig Shops at Chullora, it had hollow wheels and was set aside once we got back to Loco Enfield.

For me, the worst of the 38's was 01 after its RTS from Cardiff. For whatever reason it did not seem to have the power as others, when it finished its trials on passenger working which automatically allowed it to work goods trains, which some enthusiasts did not like and in an RTM bulletin it was set straight as to the reason behind it, all this because the RTM contributed towards its overhaul.  I worked on 01 to Goulburn, and it seemed sluggish even at top BP, also the screw was out further than was usual by two notches, the driver reported that at Glbn. Some weeks later, with the same driver and well known author and expert we were sent to Clyde Up yard to relief the incoming crew on 392 Pick up. The drivers as usual conversed with each other and the incoming driver commented about it being weak, the load behind 01 was a full length of 55x4 wheelers and load of 1000tonnes, the load for 36/38 and goods engines from Moss Vale to the metro area, so no problems should have been had.

On getting into the cab the shunters waved us up so that we could shunt the wagons off that were needed to come off. with a full head of steam, 01 refused to lift the load and only slipped at every attempt. After more than half dozen attempts one of the 50cl on the yard shunter was brought down and coupled up and assisted us up the yard. Over 200 tonnes were dropped off and we left to go to Enfield, on departure it still slipped.

Rumours had it that there was issues with the way the cylinders and valve timings had been adjusted or other items carried out at Cardiff.  Most crews tended to be of common belief that it had a lot of bark to it but little bite.

Most engines allocated to the West were well maintained as were those at Eveliegh and Enfield, even to the extent of them being kept clean, black oiled every second day and a full dry wipe on the intermediate days.  Those allocated to BMD were ok maintained but did not seem to be as maintained as well as those at the other depots, and certainly very rarely did they get a good clean.

When working on the south, I personally preferred a pig over a 38c, except for 3658 which was a total dog of an engine and Glbn crews called it a smeg. OTOH, the 59cl were a wonderful replacement for the pigs and only had one with an issue that was caused by a slack fuelman at Moss Vale.

PS. I in no way want to discredit the view of the 38cl books author and his view of 3827, all have their individual favourites and often based on what they have experienced one way or another.  The comment regarding 3801 on its Perth run and finishing the trip on one cylinder gives credit to the engine and the crew, none less the locomotive inspector the Late Ian Thornton a personal friend of mine.  Someone sorely missed by all who knew, worked and tripped with.
Somewhere at home I have the STN from 3820's Coota trip, given to me by a workmate of my father. The load was an NCR set plus a 12 wheeler - about 245 tons. Pretty light for a 38, so the  performance might not be surprising
studdo
The actual tonnage of 245tons is very light, and while there are several steep grades south of Glbn, compared to the 1:75's on the short south, it does make for easy running.  Given the loads south of Glbn on the Down for a 38 on pax working is 460tons and on the up 348tons, there is a fair bit of latitude in the load on that tour.

Those loads are as per the 1957 Southern area WTT.
  DCook Train Controller

Location: The standard state
What if, if the funds are found to restore 4801, for one trip 3801 and 4801 haul a tour on a parallel run with 3001 and 4001
It would take a lot of planning and money to potentially run the trip, not to mention the state of 4801, but could be a drawcard on a one off event
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
A comparison of the technical features of the 38 and the H is interesting, however there's one big factor in play - 2 cylinders versus 3.

The Henschel and Son gear for the inside cylinder of the H performed extremely well - (compared with the Gresley gear on the S class which was a source of continual trouble).


And, yes; why an oil burning 38? Let's have the smell of coal smoke exactly as God intended. (dives for nearest air raid shelter).
Valvegear
An oil burning 38 -
Just trying to get ahead of the OH&S fairies ....................... Rolling Eyes
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

What if, if the funds are found to restore 4801, for one trip 3801 and 4801 haul a tour on a parallel run with 3001 and 4001
It would take a lot of planning and money to potentially run the trip, not to mention the state of 4801, but could be a drawcard on a one off event
DCook
4201,is operational.
As is 42101.
4501 was/is a goer, at Goodwin/Alco.
4701 is at LVR.
4401 is at June, and needs new wheels?
Could be others, are you seeking a ‘01 foaming fest?
  DCook Train Controller

Location: The standard state
What if, if the funds are found to restore 4801, for one trip 3801 and 4801 haul a tour on a parallel run with 3001 and 4001
It would take a lot of planning and money to potentially run the trip, not to mention the state of 4801, but could be a drawcard on a one off event
4201,is operational.
As is 42101.
4501 was/is a goer, at Goodwin/Alco.
4701 is at LVR.
4401 is at June, and needs new wheels?
Could be others, are you seeking a ‘01 foaming fest
michaelgm
My point on those two was that they are the only ones to have a steam locomotive one digit above
3201, 3501 and 3401 are all scrapped and 32101 and 3701 never existed
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
An oil burning 38 -

Just trying to get ahead of the OH&S fairies ....
"YM-Mundrabilla"
You'll have to get a lot further ahead, old son. You wouldn't be allowed to design and build a conventional steam loco these days . . . no doors and no seatbelts, any amount of unprotected hot surfaces, , no windscreen wipers, reaching up overhead frequently for the whistle cord, a Detroit lubricator which can easily kill you if you open the valves in the wrong order, plus the one you've picked - shovelling coal on a swaying and possibly slippery floor.

Then, shock, horror! OH&S would have conniptions these days if a test engineer was sent out to do Indicator Card tests. He had to sit on the running plate above the cylinder, with a machine piped into the system from which it could draw a graph on a card on a moving drum, showing the steam behaviour. There he was, completely exposed to the elements, perhaps a wooden box to sit on, and working whilst trying to avoid falling off at 70 mph ( or 115 km/h which is today's limit.)
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
An oil burning 38 -

Just trying to get ahead of the OH&S fairies ....
You'll have to get a lot further ahead, old son. You wouldn't be allowed to design and build a conventional steam loco these days . . . no doors and no seatbelts, any amount of unprotected hot surfaces, , no windscreen wipers, reaching up overhead frequently for the whistle cord, a Detroit lubricator which can easily kill you if you open the valves in the wrong order, plus the one you've picked - shovelling coal on a swaying and possibly slippery floor.

Then, shock, horror! OH&S would have conniptions these days if a test engineer was sent out to do Indicator Card tests. He had to sit on the running plate above the cylinder, with a machine piped into the system from which it could draw a graph on a card on a moving drum, showing the steam behaviour. There he was, completely exposed to the elements, perhaps a wooden box to sit on, and working whilst trying to avoid falling off at 70 mph ( or 115 km/h which is today's limit.)
Valvegear
Absolutely Valvegear they were even allowed to walk alongside the engine on the ground based upon their own common sense and care.

BREAKING NEWS:

'Not many Engine Crews killed today.....'
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
I've had the pleasure of watching quite bit of footage of the great 3801 on trials recently. It looks and sounds superb. It's time to give a pat on the back to the people who rebuilt the boiler, and then the same to the crew who put the whole lot back together.

It has been a long time coming, with more drama than we needed, but the end result is excellent.

Well done, everybody.
  studdo Locomotive Fireman

I've had the pleasure of watching quite bit of footage of the great 3801 on trials recently. It looks and sounds superb. It's time to give a pat on the back to the people who rebuilt the boiler, and then the same to the crew who put the whole lot back together.

It has been a long time coming, with more drama than we needed, but the end result is excellent.

Well done, everybody.
Valvegear
Couldn't agree more, well said.
If Ainsworths have done the job we think they've done on 01's boiler (i.e. a seemingly very good one), surely the next thing is to send 30's boiler to them. My understanding is that it's repairable and otherwise 30 is reasonably OK mechanically.
  a6et Minister for Railways

I've had the pleasure of watching quite bit of footage of the great 3801 on trials recently. It looks and sounds superb. It's time to give a pat on the back to the people who rebuilt the boiler, and then the same to the crew who put the whole lot back together.

It has been a long time coming, with more drama than we needed, but the end result is excellent.

Well done, everybody.
Couldn't agree more, well said.
If Ainsworths have done the job we think they've done on 01's boiler (i.e. a seemingly very good one), surely the next thing is to send 30's boiler to them. My understanding is that it's repairable and otherwise 30 is reasonably OK mechanically.
studdo


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed_QvgmL2YU
  DCook Train Controller

Location: The standard state
On the topic of restoring 3830 and all the options that have been talked about, I was at thirlmere recently and 3830 has been moved next to 3820 which looks great but just doesn't seem right. The buffer is extremely faded and the boiler clothing looks like it will pop of at any moment
From talking to one of the NSWRM staff it seems that they found that the boiler is much more deteriorated than anyone thought, from what he said it seems that the NSWRM doesn't have the funds to do repair the boiler, the PHM doesn't have funds to repair the boiler, as most of their funds are going towards the move to parramatta, and that even if they combined all of the funds from both organisations they still wouldn't have nearly enough funds to repair the boiler.

Yet another great locomotive confined to the storage area
  apw5910 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Location: Location.
Yet another great locomotive confined to the storage area
DCook
Better than being shovelled into to a bunch of S-trucks then sitting on rotten row for decades...
  a6et Minister for Railways

Not sure how many have seen this video's but there are several in both of them that have pretty clear whistle blasts, and all bar one are all basically the same, quite different to what is heard on 01 on the trials, but I suggest there is a bit of work having been done on it prior to the test to MV as I did detect a minor difference to the earlier tests.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PzDFh9Ue8s


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VRGdocqY7E
  DCook Train Controller

Location: The standard state
Any updates on the trials?
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

Any updates on the trials?
DCook
It ran down to Moss Vale and return without issue so I guess they might be painting it now.
  a6et Minister for Railways

Any updates on the trials?
It ran down to Moss Vale and return without issue so I guess they might be painting it now.
nswtrains
Getting ready for steamfest one would think.
  c3526blue Deputy Commissioner

Location: in the cuckoos nest
Any updates on the trials?
It ran down to Moss Vale and return without issue so I guess they might be painting it now.
Getting ready for steamfest one would think.
a6et
The Festival of Steam has been deferred indefinitely, so Steamfest may be the first large publicised outing for 3801.  I understand that the NSW Government wants a well publicised media event as a relaunch of 3801.  This may be a separate activity prior to Steamfest.

Happy sailing,

John
  c3526blue Deputy Commissioner

Location: in the cuckoos nest
….. snipped ……. The Coota tour had a very experienced driver in Clive Clease who was also an acting locomotive inspector at the time and later became a senior inspector, no mention of who the fireman was but both were from Goulburn.  Reading the Coota tour report in the book provides a fair bit of detail regarding the events and some adversities they experienced on the trip, something that was both common and uncommon at times, certainly the work on the lubricators arm is a classic but not unknown for that to happen on the Mechanical lubricators.
a6et
The fireman from Goulburn to Cootamundra and return for the 1970 run with 3827 was Philip Fowler.  There is a photo of Philip in the cab of (I think) 3827 on this tour in the Wheatley brothers books "Railway Portraits".  I don't remember which volume, but this is one of my treasured photos showing a very young fireman with a passion for the loco he was operating.

Philip is still with us, living in Goulburn, and still active in local rail preservation.

Happy reminiscing,

John
  a6et Minister for Railways

….. snipped ……. The Coota tour had a very experienced driver in Clive Clease who was also an acting locomotive inspector at the time and later became a senior inspector, no mention of who the fireman was but both were from Goulburn.  Reading the Coota tour report in the book provides a fair bit of detail regarding the events and some adversities they experienced on the trip, something that was both common and uncommon at times, certainly the work on the lubricators arm is a classic but not unknown for that to happen on the Mechanical lubricators.
The fireman from Goulburn to Cootamundra and return for the 1970 run with 3827 was Philip Fowler.  There is a photo of Philip in the cab of (I think) 3827 on this tour in the Wheatley brothers books "Railway Portraits".  I don't remember which volume, but this is one of my treasured photos showing a very young fireman with a passion for the loco he was operating.

Philip is still with us, living in Goulburn, and still active in local rail preservation.

Happy reminiscing,

John
c3526blue
I know the name, as I worked with a number of Goulburn drivers in the 60's when at Enfield and before I went to WCK in 69. When the Indian Summer of steam took place, and a bit before that, there was a concerted attempt by the railways to get all the firemen based at Glbn qualified for steam operations to Enfield that qualification allowed them to work tours south of there as required.

Up until 1967 any new starters, acting fireman and firemen were only trained to work steam on local shunting jobs, Glbn having 3 on day shift. As time went on it created a big issue for rostering of crews, as Enfield firemen who were fully qualified would be taken off a rostered diesel job or one that was replaced by steam and put on the steam service with the Glbn fireman going on the diesel train.

The roster clerks at both ends along with the two branch union officials made very strong moves to get the glbn firemen trained for steam working. Inspectors were placed on stand by at loco Enfield and at Glbn to progressively train them all in steam fireing. Took some time but when the pigs came back into the working inspectors were placed at Bargo for the evening an morning goods train working.  With the pigs it meant they had to start training them again, although most of the drivers just took over in the tuition.
  studdo Locomotive Fireman

On the topic of restoring 3830 and all the options that have been talked about, I was at thirlmere recently and 3830 has been moved next to 3820 which looks great but just doesn't seem right. The buffer is extremely faded and the boiler clothing looks like it will pop of at any moment
From talking to one of the NSWRM staff it seems that they found that the boiler is much more deteriorated than anyone thought, from what he said it seems that the NSWRM doesn't have the funds to do repair the boiler, the PHM doesn't have funds to repair the boiler, as most of their funds are going towards the move to parramatta, and that even if they combined all of the funds from both organisations they still wouldn't have nearly enough funds to repair the boiler.

Yet another great locomotive confined to the storage area
DCook
I've heard similar - that the damage to the boiler is significant. But I've also heard, and it was from a source who knows, that 30's boiler is still repairable. That doesn't mean that the boiler will be repaired. That will depend on funding as you say. Let's hope that any decision is made by someone who understands steam so that we don't have a re-run of the German boiler. The cynic in me thinks that might be a forlorn hope.
  a6et Minister for Railways

On the topic of restoring 3830 and all the options that have been talked about, I was at thirlmere recently and 3830 has been moved next to 3820 which looks great but just doesn't seem right. The buffer is extremely faded and the boiler clothing looks like it will pop of at any moment
From talking to one of the NSWRM staff it seems that they found that the boiler is much more deteriorated than anyone thought, from what he said it seems that the NSWRM doesn't have the funds to do repair the boiler, the PHM doesn't have funds to repair the boiler, as most of their funds are going towards the move to parramatta, and that even if they combined all of the funds from both organisations they still wouldn't have nearly enough funds to repair the boiler.

Yet another great locomotive confined to the storage area
I've heard similar - that the damage to the boiler is significant. But I've also heard, and it was from a source who knows, that 30's boiler is still repairable. That doesn't mean that the boiler will be repaired. That will depend on funding as you say. Let's hope that any decision is made by someone who understands steam so that we don't have a re-run of the German boiler. The cynic in me thinks that might be a forlorn hope.
studdo
The suck eggs side of this issue is that its the government who is forcing the move of the Powerhouse museum to Parramatta so they can make big money from the reuse of the existing PH museum.   From my perspective since the move is being forced by the government they should pay for the move as they will be paying for the new facilities at the chicken wire enclosure that was a car park next to the Parramatta river.

Whichever way things go, outside of 01 and it being readied for service, and lets not forget that the reason behind the German boiler being built was that the boiler on 01 was deemed unrepairable until the dud arrived.  Tells me that both 20 and 30 under similar circumstances would be more than likely repairable.
  DCook Train Controller

Location: The standard state
Some small updates from THNSW in their newest board wrap up
https://www.thnsw.com.au/post/board-wrap-up-february-2020
On behalf of the Board I was pleased to join with everyone involved on Friday 24 January’s transfer of Locomotive 3801 from Chullora to Thirlmere (you can read more and watch a video of the engine's return to Thirlmere on the 3801 project page). The Board congratulated everyone on the successful completion of the work at Chullora and the transfer operation and received an update on the project. There is still significant work being undertaken by the team at Thirlmere to complete Locomotive 3801 and return it to service. The next major milestone will be its actual return to service launch event which will take place at Central Station, details of which will be announced shortly.
THNSW
  c3526blue Deputy Commissioner

Location: in the cuckoos nest
On the topic of restoring 3830 and all the options that have been talked about, I was at thirlmere recently and 3830 has been moved next to 3820 which looks great but just doesn't seem right. The buffer is extremely faded and the boiler clothing looks like it will pop of at any moment
From talking to one of the NSWRM staff it seems that they found that the boiler is much more deteriorated than anyone thought, from what he said it seems that the NSWRM doesn't have the funds to do repair the boiler, the PHM doesn't have funds to repair the boiler, as most of their funds are going towards the move to parramatta, and that even if they combined all of the funds from both organisations they still wouldn't have nearly enough funds to repair the boiler.

Yet another great locomotive confined to the storage area
I've heard similar - that the damage to the boiler is significant. But I've also heard, and it was from a source who knows, that 30's boiler is still repairable. That doesn't mean that the boiler will be repaired. That will depend on funding as you say. Let's hope that any decision is made by someone who understands steam so that we don't have a re-run of the German boiler. The cynic in me thinks that might be a forlorn hope.
The suck eggs side of this issue is that its the government who is forcing the move of the Powerhouse museum to Parramatta so they can make big money from the reuse of the existing PH museum.   From my perspective since the move is being forced by the government they should pay for the move as they will be paying for the new facilities at the chicken wire enclosure that was a car park next to the Parramatta river.

Whichever way things go, outside of 01 and it being readied for service, and lets not forget that the reason behind the German boiler being built was that the boiler on 01 was deemed unrepairable until the dud arrived.  Tells me that both 20 and 30 under similar circumstances would be more than likely repairable.
a6et
Hi,

Anything is repairable, especially if you are clever and can use some accounting tricks.

I understand that boiler Tab 3819 is mostly a new boiler.  What is original?  Maybe only the boiler barrel and the tab plug.

3830's current boiler can be rebuilt.  It just depends on which and how many components can be reused.

Remember grandfather's axe.  The NSWGR did this with many items of goods rolling stock, and possibly some engines.  the S wagon fleet was almost completely rebuilt during the 1950's with new underframes, wheels and bodies, but the same R/S number.

Boiler Tab 3801 could be placed on a brand new boiler, hence 3830's existing boiler has been rebuilt!

Happy steaming,

John
  studdo Locomotive Fireman

On the topic of restoring 3830 and all the options that have been talked about, I was at thirlmere recently and 3830 has been moved next to 3820 which looks great but just doesn't seem right. The buffer is extremely faded and the boiler clothing looks like it will pop of at any moment
From talking to one of the NSWRM staff it seems that they found that the boiler is much more deteriorated than anyone thought, from what he said it seems that the NSWRM doesn't have the funds to do repair the boiler, the PHM doesn't have funds to repair the boiler, as most of their funds are going towards the move to parramatta, and that even if they combined all of the funds from both organisations they still wouldn't have nearly enough funds to repair the boiler.

Yet another great locomotive confined to the storage area
I've heard similar - that the damage to the boiler is significant. But I've also heard, and it was from a source who knows, that 30's boiler is still repairable. That doesn't mean that the boiler will be repaired. That will depend on funding as you say. Let's hope that any decision is made by someone who understands steam so that we don't have a re-run of the German boiler. The cynic in me thinks that might be a forlorn hope.
The suck eggs side of this issue is that its the government who is forcing the move of the Powerhouse museum to Parramatta so they can make big money from the reuse of the existing PH museum.   From my perspective since the move is being forced by the government they should pay for the move as they will be paying for the new facilities at the chicken wire enclosure that was a car park next to the Parramatta river.

Whichever way things go, outside of 01 and it being readied for service, and lets not forget that the reason behind the German boiler being built was that the boiler on 01 was deemed unrepairable until the dud arrived.  Tells me that both 20 and 30 under similar circumstances would be more than likely repairable.
Hi,

Anything is repairable, especially if you are clever and can use some accounting tricks.

I understand that boiler Tab 3819 is mostly a new boiler.  What is original?  Maybe only the boiler barrel and the tab plug.

3830's current boiler can be rebuilt.  It just depends on which and how many components can be reused.

Remember grandfather's axe.  The NSWGR did this with many items of goods rolling stock, and possibly some engines.  the S wagon fleet was almost completely rebuilt during the 1950's with new underframes, wheels and bodies, but the same R/S number.

Boiler Tab 3801 could be placed on a brand new boiler, hence 3830's existing boiler has been rebuilt!

Happy steaming,

John
c3526blue
John,

My understanding is essentially the same as yours. Just about anything (boilers, tenders, connecting rods, even cabs - 3815's cab was damaged in an accident and replaced with the cab from 3805 which had been withdrawn earlier, making its number on the side of the cab look odd), except maybe the frame, could be interchanged with other locos. At one stage there were 2 6042s in service, Roundhouse (can't remember which one) referred to a 59 coming into Eveleigh for an overhaul and being outshopped under a different number. As you say, steam engines were a bit like grandpa's old axe.

As long as the boiler shell is sound, just about everything else in a boiler can be replaced - tubeplates, tubes, superheater elements, firebox. My understanding is that the boiler in 3830 (3801's original boiler) is quite sound boiler shell-wise. In fact, being the first boiler made, its shell is slightly thicker than the subsequent ones, which should be a bonus. So, if 3801's boiler cab be rebuilt there seems to be no reason 3830's can't be as well.

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