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  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
I have no idea why Marshall has not managed to toss out our stupid retail trading hours laws. As far as legislative changes goes they’d be fairly easy ones to change.
Aaron
To cite a Justapassenger truism, there's a more subtle message here which is that there's a vested interest in keeping the status quo as there is in Perth (from the last time I was there), supermarkets etc close at 5pm on weekends and generally 9pm on week-nights whereas 'servo' and smaller-sized supermarkets can stay open on much more generous hours. I must admit I've just got used to it since moving back: but on the other hand Marshall failed the Westfield and supermarket duopoly in not following through on his promise to completely deregulate... and the many people who love being able to shop till midnight and day of the week.

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  mawsonboii Junior Train Controller

Location: Banned
New Adelaide Metro buses launched by our Transport Minister boy wonder today featuring USB points (wow!) and admittedly smoother, quieter looking operation - but he's a bit behind, they actually they were reported earlier this year here by the manufacturer, M.A.N. Buses but I guess their actual arrival to replace the poor old mid-1990's buses still clunking along is a big deal.
The 90's buses really need to go, earlier in the week I caught a bus and it was I'm guessing from the 80's it had no wheelchair access, it surprised me this bus was still in service, there was someone younger on the bus and when it came time to get off he looked at me and signalled for me to get off first, he didn't know how to open the door. (the old push them open).

USB port? how about busses that don't make you feel like you're a milkshake after travelling from the city to TTP on the O-Bahn. Some of the bus shake the smeg out you. It's even worse if you have to stand the whole way

There are no buses in the network from the 80's any more.

The oldest buses in the network are the 1995 model SL202's, which will be retired this year as they reach their 25 year limit.  Once these go, then all buses on the network will be wheelchair accessible.
Brucetiki
Ok, well it was an old bus lol
  mawsonboii Junior Train Controller

Location: Banned
I have no idea why Marshall has not managed to toss out our stupid retail trading hours laws. As far as legislative changes goes they’d be fairly easy ones to change.
To cite a Justapassenger truism, there's a more subtle message here which is that there's a vested interest in keeping the status quo as there is in Perth (from the last time I was there), supermarkets etc close at 5pm on weekends and generally 9pm on week-nights whereas 'servo' and smaller-sized supermarkets can stay open on much more generous hours. I must admit I've just got used to it since moving back: but on the other hand Marshall failed the Westfield and supermarket duopoly in not following through on his promise to completely deregulate... and the many people who love being able to shop till midnight and day of the week.
don_dunstan
Trading hours will change very soon, retail is failing hard with the boom of online shopping. Shopping Centres likes Westfield will push for longer trading to offer more convenience for shoppers. The supermarket giants will also jump on board but will also want penalty rates changed.

But I think it is safe to say that many major shopping centres will eventually become smaller and smaller as more and more smaller retailers close down.
  Gayspie Assistant Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, SA
I have no idea why Marshall has not managed to toss out our stupid retail trading hours laws. As far as legislative changes goes they’d be fairly easy ones to change.
Aaron
For one Aaron, i actually agree with you. Except for Good Friday, Christmas Day, New Years Day, and Election Day, shops should be able to trade whenever they want to.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

I would support deregulation of trading hours, but with extended hours only permitted for a limited number of outlets per company in the state. If Coles Group, Woolworths Group and Wesfarmers (Bunnings, Target, Kmart, Officeworks) want to have more outlets open, they should first be broken up to provide for more competition.

Heath, we don't need shops to be shut on the Saturday when an election is held. Postal voting or early voting is available for people who work on the day (these should both be tightened, but still available) and most retail store managers would be happy to grant someone an extended unpaid break to vote if they hadn't taken one of those options and their shift times didn't make voting before/after their shift an option.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Trading closed on Election Day? What, you mean to politicians and wannabes an even greater feeling of self importance? I’d prefer to see the opposite, compulsory work for all on that day and voluntary voting send them a message of just how unimportant they are. Although as with all good plans there’s an obvious flaw - that it would almost certainly see the ALP elected.

Close on Christmas Day, I agree with that, but I am not convinced of needing Good Friday off, or New Year’s Day.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

I think that 3-4 shopping-free days out of 365 is a fair enough balance, certainly so if the government is not expected to be fully staffed on even all the 'lesser' public holidays with less restricted shopping.

As far as the importance of politicians goes, a good measure to introduce in the wake of the Sleazy Sam Duluk scandal would be to require 0% BAC readings and negative test results to all restricted drugs at all times for Cabinet Ministers (other than during four weeks of annual leave) and on all weekdays for junior ministers and parliamentary committee members. Tests at the entry to Parliament House and random daily tests using the same 'Whereabouts' scheme as enforced for elite athletes. First offence: six months suspension from the parliament and the ministry, second offence immediate loss of seat and ineligibility for the next two elections at each level (federal, state and council).

The privileges of importance should come with the responsibilities of importance.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
I think that 3-4 shopping-free days out of 365 is a fair enough balance, certainly so if the government is not expected to be fully staffed on even all the 'lesser' public holidays with less restricted shopping.

As far as the importance of politicians goes, a good measure to introduce in the wake of the Sleazy Sam Duluk scandal would be to require 0% BAC readings and negative test results to all restricted drugs at all times for Cabinet Ministers (other than during four weeks of annual leave) and on all weekdays for junior ministers and parliamentary committee members. Tests at the entry to Parliament House and random daily tests using the same 'Whereabouts' scheme as enforced for elite athletes. First offence: six months suspension from the parliament and the ministry, second offence immediate loss of seat and ineligibility for the next two elections at each level (federal, state and council).

The privileges of importance should come with the responsibilities of importance.
justapassenger
If I was a politician I'd avoid boozy Xmas parties like the plague, especially if you know that you'll get gropey after a few. That sort of thing is a definite career-killer in this day and age.

On the topic of retail hours again, I think you have some pretty powerful individual companies like Peregrine and Foodland agitating individual Liberal MP's not to vote for any change in trading hours, which is the primary road-block for Marshall to follow through with his deregulation plan... Although I do wonder if Peregrine will survive in their current form given Mobil are spending up big in South Australia. I've counted no less than three new Mobil "Convenience X" sites opening on North East road in the last few months; you have to wonder if that's cutting Peregrine's lunch.

Anyway, no change in the foreseeable future for the big shopping centres.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Sausage sizzle and free bus rides on the Northern Connector next Sunday 16/2: DPTI.

No actual information about the opening date though - you'd have to presume it will be Monday 17/2 if the construction task is all done?
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Cameron McConville, single handedly taking the protest over fuel prices right to the top of Peregrine...
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Cameron McConville, single handedly taking the protest over fuel prices right to the top of Peregrine...
Aaron
This is another thing that Mobil's expansion in SA seems to be tackling - the Convenience X that opened on North East Road Windsor Gardens started out with 99 cent petrol on opening day - it's now gone up to $119.9 but there's definitely a petrol price war happening in my part of town, anything from $175.9 all the way down to $119.9. If Peregrine relies on people to drive in for cheap petrol and spend in their franchises while they're there then they're certainly losing that battle right now.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Cameron McConville, single handedly taking the protest over fuel prices right to the top of Peregrine...
Aaron
OH, just realised, were you referring to him shunting Sam Shahin into a wall? They rather like their motorsport the Shahins don't they.
  Gayspie Assistant Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, SA
Although as with all good plans there’s an obvious flaw - that it would almost certainly see the ALP elected.

Close on Christmas Day, I agree with that, but I am not convinced of needing Good Friday off, or New Year’s Day.
Aaron

1) Explain to me how making election day a public holiday will almost certainly see the Labor Party elected?

2) The shops should remain closed on Good Friday because otherwise the powerful catholic church will do everything they can to stop the trading hour reforms as a result of their church attendance being negatively affected. The shops should remain closed on New Years day because most people have been out celebrating all the night before meaning that nearly everyone is either too drunk or too tired to work safely and effectively.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
1) Explain to me how you drew that conclusion from what I posted.

2) The Catholic Church is not that powerful in Australia - those in this country that generally identify as Catholic are not actually that Catholic - 22% of Australians do not routinely attended Catholic Churches every Sunday. This is not Italy, Spain, Poland, Ethiopia, Argentina or to a lesser extent Germany.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Sausage sizzle and free bus rides on the Northern Connector next Sunday 16/2: DPTI.

No actual information about the opening date though - you'd have to presume it will be Monday 17/2 if the construction task is all done?
don_dunstan
I wouldn't assume Monday 17/2, they would be shouting it from the rooftops if it was only a week away.

This has been their consistent answer to Facebook queries about the opening date for some time now:


They are still doing quite a lot of work around the interchanges so I'd bet on it being at least a week after the community day, more likely during March, and on the bus tours only going back and forth between the Waterloo Corner and Bolivar interchanges.

This is another thing that Mobil's expansion in SA seems to be tackling - the Convenience X that opened on North East Road Windsor Gardens started out with 99 cent petrol on opening day - it's now gone up to $119.9 but there's definitely a petrol price war happening in my part of town, anything from $175.9 all the way down to $119.9. If Peregrine relies on people to drive in for cheap petrol and spend in their franchises while they're there then they're certainly losing that battle right now.
don_dunstan
People in the know tell me that the Kosmidis family (X Convenience owners) are a very dodgy crew who will probably do a runner at some point.

Peregrine will fight them on the short-term competition side of things, but they have a much more solid long-term business case (built on their land ownership) that X Convenience (which leases most of their sites) won't be able to trouble.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
People in the know tell me that the Kosmidis family (X Convenience owners) are a very dodgy crew who will probably do a runner at some point.

Peregrine will fight them on the short-term competition side of things, but they have a much more solid long-term business case (built on their land ownership) that X Convenience (which leases most of their sites) won't be able to trouble.
justapassenger
IF supermarket deregulation follows through (and I think it will eventually) then they're both in trouble. Their business model just wouldn't work in Melbourne or Sydney.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Peregrine will be fine, they've done a good job of building up a diverse business with sites that can be reconfigured as needed.

Even in the unlikely event that Marshall can get deregulation legislation through the Legislative Council, they will still be able to sell convenience as a benefit compared to trekking into the nearest big Coleworths barn.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Peregrine will be fine, they've done a good job of building up a diverse business with sites that can be reconfigured as needed.

Even in the unlikely event that Marshall can get deregulation legislation through the Legislative Council, they will still be able to sell convenience as a benefit compared to trekking into the nearest big Coleworths barn.
justapassenger
Beg to differ: My experience of living in Melbourne was that you get used to trekking to the supermarket when you need and you don't consider the local 7/11 or whatever any more. That will apply here too; big supermarkets know that they can suck more money out of consumer pockets if they're open longer or they wouldn't still be agitating for it.

EDIT: As an aside I was visiting my Yarraville friends after Xmas and at four o'clock on a Sunday afternoon I said "well we'd better get down to Coles or it'll be closed". My company was shocked: Coles is CLOSING?

Then I remembered where I was.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

In the unlikely event that they lost the deregulation fight and their business then went south (SA people won't give up the convenience quickly, not with our crumbling roads that threaten to shake even a mid-range SUV to pieces on the way to the nearest Coleworths) they would still have all the AAA real estate to reconfigure.

Peregrine's business model is at least as much about the land they own (also including a large slice of Rundle Mall) than the OTR or whatever else is built on top of it.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
In the unlikely event that they lost the deregulation fight and their business then went south (SA people won't give up the convenience quickly, not with our crumbling roads that threaten to shake even a mid-range SUV to pieces on the way to the nearest Coleworths) they would still have all the AAA real estate to reconfigure.

Peregrine's business model is at least as much about the land they own (also including a large slice of Rundle Mall) than the OTR or whatever else is built on top of it.
justapassenger
Believe me, I lived in Melbourne for over a decade - once you're in your car the location is irrelevant; you might as well go to the local supermarket. Its about the superior range and the fact that a supermarket will have everything you want at reasonable prices (and everything you pick up will not be out of date). The only reason OTR does okay in SA is because trading hours of the big boys are restricted from opening longer so you don't have choice but that will change overnight if deregulation happens, believe me.

That's why both sides are fighting tooth-and-nail - the stakes are incredibly high.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Peregrine is way bigger than OTR, they saw the possibility of deregulation ages ago and have been diversifying into all sorts of different areas. One of those areas has been the strategic selection of suppliers, enabling them to build up a large number of allies along the way which will be too many for the Liberals to ignore when some shiny-haired lobbyist from Coles blows in with a brown paper envelope.

My bet is that deregulation will not happen in this government term, and probably not in the next term either as the Libs are already too bogged down to have a chance of winning control of the Legislative Council at the 2022 election.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Peregrine is way bigger than OTR, they saw the possibility of deregulation ages ago and have been diversifying into all sorts of different areas. One of those areas has been the strategic selection of suppliers, enabling them to build up a large number of allies along the way which will be too many for the Liberals to ignore when some shiny-haired lobbyist from Coles blows in with a brown paper envelope.

My bet is that deregulation will not happen in this government term, and probably not in the next term either as the Libs are already too bogged down to have a chance of winning control of the Legislative Council at the 2022 election.
justapassenger
Diversified: You mean "Smoke-mart" and the other stuff?

IF they're so certain that their business model isn't threatened then why lobby against deregulation?

Sorry, I'm just skeptical about the whole thing. David Penberthy wrote a long article a while ago praising how wonderful the whole Peregrine thing was for our state (supposedly) but really all they did was add food franchises to service stations - nothing more, nothing less.

And they rely on keeping competition out - that's why they're doing their own 'brown paper envelope' thing (as you call it).

It really isn't in the SA resident's interests to keep artificially limiting competition in this way - we're all grown-ups, we can make choices. And frankly that's probably what they're frightened of.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Just because they'll survive the hit doesn't mean that avoiding it completely wouldn't be better.

Extended hours with a limit on the number of sites per company is the form most likely to have a chance of getting through the parliamentary process in SA. Coleworths won't want that to happen as it would be disastrous for them if every Drakes could open in extended hours while only 1/3 of Coles Group stores could.
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

Diversified: You mean "Smoke-mart" and the other stuff?
don_dunstan
Nope.

I mean 'non-public' things like Reliable Petroleum, their commercial property portfolio etc.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Just because they'll survive the hit doesn't mean that avoiding it completely wouldn't be better.
justapassenger
Yeah so they can't compete. If they could compete then they would have already been kicking goals in Sydney and Melbourne but their model relies on the artificial limiting of competition. It's strictly a South Australian phenomenon that relies on our laws to protect it and it won't work elsewhere.
Extended hours with a limit on the number of sites per company is the form most likely to have a chance of getting through the parliamentary process in SA. Coleworths won't want that to happen as it would be disastrous for them if every Drakes could open in extended hours while only 1/3 of Coles Group stores could.
justapassenger
I love Drakes as much as anyone - I prefer to buy certain things like the Fleurieu Milk and their other independent brands. But Foodland are big boys and they'll be able to cope with full deregulation in my opinion (as you say).

Let the consumer choose is my position; we're all adults. In a city the size of Adelaide frankly restricted trading is a relic from another era that has long outlived its purpose and should be done away with. It's been decades since they've done it in Victoria and the sky didn't fall in.

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