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Leura Landslip - Trapped V sets

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      catchpoint Assistant Commissioner

    Location: At the end of a loop
    Currently Trainlink NSW Intercity services on the Blue Mtns line are being provided at a reduced timetable and as 4 car sets.

    Official explanation given is that 52 carriages (equals 6 and 1/2 eight car sets) are currently held on the western side of the Leura landslip at Mount Victoria

    source


    Given there has been no timeline for reinstatement of services provided as yet (this may take longer than the faux Glenbrook boulder shutdown) and that the V Sets are considered narrow body stock, so will fit within the loading gauge on the west and south and that there is currently a down-turn in traffic on the Main West some paths would be available on the west at least.

    Would it be possible to dead haul a couple of 8 car sets back to Sydney via Parkes / Forbes / Stockinbingle / Main South / Flemington for re-activation?

    You will recall the CWXPT and Bathurst Bullet Endevour sets were retrieved via this route when the mountains were closed due to bushfires over Christmas 2019. Maybe some private operator locos at currently held at Lithgow and could be hired for "hook and pull"?

    Just an idea? plausible or dreaming?

    Regards,

    Catchpoint
    Posted: 12 Feb 2020 12:26

    Last edited by catchpoint on 17 Feb 2020 09:43; edited 1 time in total

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      viaprojects Chief Train Controller



    Just an idea? plausible or dreaming?
    catchpoint


    not worth the paperwork or damage to the V sets ... all options would have the sets in the workshop after the relocation ... better to fix the track than run up a workshop bill..
    Posted: 12 Feb 2020 13:18
      catchpoint Assistant Commissioner

    Location: At the end of a loop


    Just an idea? plausible or dreaming?

    not worth the paperwork or damage to the V sets ... all options would have the sets in the workshop after the relocation ... better to fix the track than run up a workshop bill..
    viaprojects
    If the V sets are within the loading gauge - how are you suggesting that they would get damaged in transit?

    Did the V sets retrieved from Lithgow recently post bushfire closure sustain damage? Other than batteries going flat while they were stabled with the overhead turned off between Mt Vic and Lithgow? (and possible graffiti strike)

    image source : https://www.picuki.com/media/2229571040913080366


    Posted: 12 Feb 2020 13:28

    Last edited by catchpoint on 12 Feb 2020 13:32; edited 1 time in total
      bingley hall Minister for Railways

    Location: Last train to Skaville
    Latest (very tentative) estimate for re-opening is 24 Feb.
    Posted: 12 Feb 2020 13:41
      KRviator Moderator

    Location: Up the front


    Just an idea? plausible or dreaming?

    not worth the paperwork or damage to the V sets ... all options would have the sets in the workshop after the relocation ... better to fix the track than run up a workshop bill..
    viaprojects
    Why would they be damaged sufficiently as to need the workshops?

    I've picked up a perfectly serviceable V-set from Flemington and dropped it off at Gosford - still serviceable - with an 81 Class after an short north electrical isolation. IIRC, the only requirement was a reduction in BP pressure from 500 to 425, don't use dynamic brake and don't bail off.

    Posted: 12 Feb 2020 17:30
      ANR Chief Commissioner

    If this was going to be an ongoing problem, they could run the Vsets around as suggested, and then run services as far west as Lawson with a bustitution for the rest of the journey.

    I think these v sets may have a loco hauled future. Maybe they could replace the XPTs until the CAFs are delivered.
    Posted: 12 Feb 2020 18:16
      viaprojects Chief Train Controller





    Did the V sets retrieved from Lithgow recently post bushfire closure sustain damage? Other than batteries going flat while they were stabled with the overhead turned off between Mt Vic and Lithgow? (and possible graffiti strike)

    catchpoint


    would not compare a long bush trip ( ARTC ) to a local under the wires trip ( Sydney rail )...
    Posted: 12 Feb 2020 19:11
      KRviator Moderator

    Location: Up the front
    would not compare a long bush trip ( ARTC ) to a local under the wires trip ( Sydney rail )...
    viaprojects
    Well, you've made the claim hauling them would damage the set. I don't think it's too much to ask for you to explain how that is - particularly given I've actually done it before...
    Posted: 12 Feb 2020 19:31
      RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

    Location: Dubai UAE




    Did the V sets retrieved from Lithgow recently post bushfire closure sustain damage? Other than batteries going flat while they were stabled with the overhead turned off between Mt Vic and Lithgow? (and possible graffiti strike)


    would not compare a long bush trip ( ARTC ) to a local under the wires trip ( Sydney rail )...
    viaprojects
    So I think the question people want answered is can the V-set operate west of Lithgow to Parkes without loosing its roof, ie clearances for overpasses and tunnels such as Marranagroo and anything on the main south that is too low?

    How does the V-set height compare to that of a 10' container on a wagon?
    Posted: 12 Feb 2020 19:49
      michaelgm Chief Commissioner

    IIRC, 8606 and a 46 were dead hauled by an 82, Junee to Lithgow via Parkes.
    U boats have been west of the O/H limits, on tours.
    So yeah, I’m guessing a V set could get back to Sydney the long way.
    Mentioned the line will be opened again on or about 24 February.
    Would the experiment be necessary? There is bustitution.
    Posted: 12 Feb 2020 20:02
      michaelgm Chief Commissioner

    If this was going to be an ongoing problem, they could run the Vsets around as suggested, and then run services as far west as Lawson with a bustitution for the rest of the journey.

    I think these v sets may have a loco hauled future. Maybe they could replace the XPTs until the CAFs are delivered.
    ANR
    Regular loco hauled V sets? Ah, no.
    Posted: 12 Feb 2020 20:05
      DCook Chief Train Controller

    Location: The standard state
    Maybe if those shortsighted politicians had spent money on reopening the Blayney to Harden line rather than diverted to unnecessary road upgrades the journey time for the retrieval of those V sets, among other things, would be far quicker
    Posted: 12 Feb 2020 21:23

    Last edited by DCook on 13 Feb 2020 18:38; edited 1 time in total
      ANR Chief Commissioner

    How is port kembla getting it's coal?
    Posted: 16 Feb 2020 00:17
      fzr560 Chief Train Controller

    How is port kembla getting it's coal?
    ANR
    Very little western coal goes any where near Port Kembla.It's generally exported through NCIG on Kooragang.
    Posted: 16 Feb 2020 07:30
      theanimal Chief Commissioner

    Maybe if those shortsighted politicians had spent money on reopening the Blayney to Harden line rather than diverted to unnecessary road upgrades the journey time for the retrieval of those V sets, among other things, would be far quicker
    DCook
    the carcoar tunnel is a bit limiter on running this line, I do not think a V set would fit, I doubt a say NR class would fit the kinematic envelope.
    Posted: 16 Feb 2020 08:05
      Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

    Location: Richmond Vic
    I've seen A4 and A3 envelopes; what is a kinematic envelope?
    Posted: 16 Feb 2020 09:09
      michaelgm Chief Commissioner
    Posted: 16 Feb 2020 09:19
      NSWRcars Assistant Commissioner

    Set V10 which was stabled on the down main at Leura, and was heavily tagged, appears to have been retrieved sometime this weekend. Is there really any need to get the other V-sets from Katoomba and places west?
    Meanwhile work crews continue filling the washaway, which extends down into private properties. Bit of a mess...
    Posted: 16 Feb 2020 10:52
      ANR Chief Commissioner

    I remember the Coledale landslide. What a tragedy.

    Fortunately, nobody was hurt in Leura.

    What's happening with the IP? Why don't they park it in Mount Victoria and bus pax to and from central? I guess the logistics of sending cleaning and maintenance crews might make it difficult.

    An alternative route is needed across the divide in the event that the track is out of commission for an extended period of time.
    Posted: 16 Feb 2020 12:38
      ANR Chief Commissioner

    I remember the Coledale landslide. What a tragedy.

    Fortunately, nobody was hurt in Leura.

    What's happening with the IP? Why don't they park it in Mount Victoria and bus pax to and from central? I guess the logistics of sending cleaning and maintenance crews might make it difficult.

    An alternative route is needed across the divide in the event that the track is out of commission for an extended period of time.
    Posted: 16 Feb 2020 12:38
      Matthew Chief Train Controller


    U boats have been west of the O/H limits, on tours.
    michaelgm

    At least one of those tours they removed the pantographs and the entire tour was locomotive-hauled. They were worried the (stowed) pantographs would be out-of-gauge.

    While it's possible the V sets WOULD fit, someone would have to sign off on the planned route being clear, and for the projected time the blockage is expected to last, no one is going to sign off without sending the inspection car out to survey the route. By the time that's organised, they could come back by the mainline, even if they have to be hauled past the worksite.
    Posted: 16 Feb 2020 14:40
      theanimal Chief Commissioner

    I've seen A4 and A3 envelopes; what is a kinematic envelope?
    Valvegear
    my apologies, i thought this term was in common usage, apparently i was wrong.
    Posted: 16 Feb 2020 22:16
      marvin Assistant Commissioner

    Location: Mars... "The Earth? Oh, the Earth will be gone in just a few seconds!"
    ...
    What's happening with the IP?
    ...
    ANR
    'Twas sitting on platty 2 at Ingleburn last Wednesday afternoon at 4pm when I saw 2 NRs approaching from the north at a very quick pace. I didn't recognise the freight wagons initially in the distance. On closer view - and to my surprise - I realised that they were SLF wagons.

    The Indian Pacific was heading out of Sydney on the SSFL. That would be a rare time a passenger train used the SSFL.

    marvin
    ------
    Actually that was quite a sensible move to use the SSFL...
    Out of Sydney Terminal on the Down Main, hang a right just after Flemington onto the junctions. under the main line heading towards Chullora, then hang a right to head out past Leightonfield and onto the Southern Sydney Freight Line. Would probably have been given
    priority on the SSFL. It was moving at quite a clip through Ingleburn.
    Also doesn't stuff up the scheduled passenger services on the suburban lines.

    (Edit: corrected below by fzr560 (probably Sydenham > Enfield > Leightonfield)
    Posted: 16 Feb 2020 22:24

    Last edited by marvin on 17 Feb 2020 15:01; edited 2 times in total
      YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

    Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
    I've seen A4 and A3 envelopes; what is a kinematic envelope?
    Valvegear
    Known to 'traditional' railwaymen as:

    • Structure gauge (nothing inside thereof)
    • Rolling stock outline (nothing outside thereof)

    One should therefore fit within the other under all circumstances in perfect safety provided that you are still on the rails; or has maintenance and adherence to standards deteriorated to such an extent that no one can be sure of anything any more? Rhetorical question so far as Victoria is concerned anyway.

    As has already been pointed out the kinematic outline depicts rolling stock under all conditions of movement.
    Posted: 16 Feb 2020 22:27

    Last edited by YM-Mundrabilla on 16 Feb 2020 22:44; edited 5 times in total
      marvin Assistant Commissioner

    Location: Mars... "The Earth? Oh, the Earth will be gone in just a few seconds!"
    I've seen A4 and A3 envelopes; what is a kinematic envelope?
    my apologies, i thought this term was in common usage, apparently i was wrong.
    theanimal
    I think Valvegear may have been having a lend of you, mate. Smile
    Posted: 16 Feb 2020 22:30

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