Leura Landslip - Trapped V sets

 
  fzr560 Chief Train Controller

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What's happening with the IP?
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'Twas sitting on platty 2 at Ingleburn last Wednesday afternoon at 4pm when I saw 2 NRs approaching from the north at a very quick pace. I didn't recognise the freight wagons initially in the distance. On closer view - and to my surprise - I realised that they were SLF wagons.

The Indian Pacific was heading out of Sydney on the SSFL. That would be a rare time a passenger train used the SSFL.

marvin
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Actually that was quite a sensible move to use the SSFL...
Out of Sydney Terminal on the Down Main, hang a right just after Flemington onto the junctions. under the main line heading towards Chullora, then hang a right to head out past Leightonfield and onto the Southern Sydney Freight Line. Would probably have been given priority on the SSFL. It was moving at quite a clip through Ingleburn.
Also doesn't stuff up the scheduled passenger services on the suburban lines.
marvin
More likely ran via Sydneham and Enfield as you can't directly access the freight lines, from the mains.

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  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
I've seen A4 and A3 envelopes; what is a kinematic envelope?
my apologies, i thought this term was in common usage, apparently i was wrong.
I think Valvegear may have been having a lend of you, mate. Smile
marvin
That is one of the things I like about this place - I never stop learning. I don't mind admitting that I thought that the term was kinetic envelope and referred to the forces generated by wind being pushed around a moving train and only applied to passing in tunnels.

Kinematic - hoowoodathunkit.

And while I'm making myself look like an idiot apologies to theanimal, when I read your post I assumed you had made a mistake!
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

I've seen A4 and A3 envelopes; what is a kinematic envelope?
my apologies, i thought this term was in common usage, apparently i was wrong.
I think Valvegear may have been having a lend of you, mate. Smile
That is one of the things I like about this place - I never stop learning. I don't mind admitting that I thought that the term was kinetic envelope and referred to the forces generated by wind being pushed around a moving train and only applied to passing in tunnels.

Kinematic - hoowoodathunkit.

And while I'm making myself look like an idiot apologies to theanimal, when I read your post I assumed you had made a mistake!
BrentonGolding
Hey Brenton, I had NFI either, so posted a link.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
BG and MGM

Well said - a glimmer of the spirit of RP of old where members posted good information which was intelligible and educational to others.

Sadly we seem far more preoccupied with lectures about internal combustion engines (which are not ICE - they are trains in Germany), electric cars, the economy and our idiot politicians these days.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Norda Fittazroy
I think Valvegear may have been having a lend of you, mate
"marvin"
Not a bit of it - I seriously did not know what a kinetic envelope meant. I guess I should have left out the joking bit.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
BG and MGM

Well said - a glimmer of the spirit of RP of old where members posted good information which was intelligible and educational to others.

Sadly we seem far more preoccupied with lectures about internal combustion engines (which are not ICE - they are trains in Germany), electric cars, the economy and our idiot politicians these days.
YM-Mundrabilla
Yep, I haven't been around for that long (including lurking maybe 6 years or so) but I quite often think that the Rail discussions should be completely separate to the Lounge ie when you click on New Forum Posts it should give you a choice of Rail or Lounge

Although i do get sucked in occasionally I prefer to stay well away from some of those forums that you mention.

Anyway YM never give up and never stop learning / teaching.
  marvin Assistant Commissioner

Location: Mars... "The Earth? Oh, the Earth will be gone in just a few seconds!"
More likely ran via Sydneham and Enfield as you can't directly access the freight lines, from the mains.
fzr560
Duly noted and thanks. I have had a look at the DRKD (Drivers Route Knowledge Diagrams) for Flemington and have given myself a slap on the back of the head. The incorrect section has been struckthrough and credit given.

marvin
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  theanimal Chief Commissioner

And while I'm making myself look like an idiot apologies to theanimal, when I read your post I assumed you had made a mistake!
BrentonGolding
I suppose since I started picking matches out of urinals in 1971 as a Junior Station Assistant (the lowest of the low) until now (except for 2 years when I toyed with retirement) i have been a sponge for information, this is one i learnt very early in my train control days.
  apw5910 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Location: Location.
I suppose since I started picking matches out of urinals in 1971 as a Junior Station Assistant (the lowest of the low) until now (except for 2 years when I toyed with retirement) i have been a sponge for information, this is one i learnt very early in my train control days.
theanimal
Nowadays you need a Cert IV in combusted combustible material, non-gender specific water trough therein recognition to do that...
  fzr560 Chief Train Controller

More likely ran via Sydneham and Enfield as you can't directly access the freight lines, from the mains.
Duly noted and thanks. I have had a look at the DRKD (Drivers Route Knowledge Diagrams) for Flemington and have given myself a slap on the back of the head. The incorrect section has been struckthrough and credit given.

marvin
------
marvin
All good. I trust you didn't slap too hard. You've certainly set an example of how to acknowledge mistakes. If I was to go back and apply your method to all my mistakes, I wouldn't do anything else for the next year.

       It will be interesting to see if the Sydenham option will survive the commissioning of the Bankstown Metro.
  theanimal Chief Commissioner

I suppose since I started picking matches out of urinals in 1971 as a Junior Station Assistant (the lowest of the low) until now (except for 2 years when I toyed with retirement) i have been a sponge for information, this is one i learnt very early in my train control days.
Nowadays you need a Cert IV in combusted combustible material, non-gender specific water trough therein recognition to do that...
apw5910
and there were no gloves
  catchpoint Assistant Commissioner

Location: At the end of a loop
I've seen A4 and A3 envelopes; what is a kinematic envelope?
Known to 'traditional' railwaymen as:

  • Structure gauge (nothing inside thereof)
  • Rolling stock outline (nothing outside thereof)

One should therefore fit within the other under all circumstances in perfect safety provided that you are still on the rails; or has maintenance and adherence to standards deteriorated to such an extent that no one can be sure of anything any more? Rhetorical question so far as Victoria is concerned anyway.

As has already been pointed out the kinematic outline depicts rolling stock under all conditions of movement.
YM-Mundrabilla

A Simplified Diagram



Currently "Wide Electric Stock" (suburban electric stock) are unable to pass Springwood on the Blue Mountains line (even thought he diagram says Penrith)

Willing to stand corrected, but if the V sets fit in the Non Electric Stock Loading Gauge (allowing for pantographs till Lithgow), which allows them to travel pass Springwood, then its reasonable to assume that with pantographs lowered that they could be safley towed west and via the south to return to Sydney.

Regards,

Catchpoint
  catchpoint Assistant Commissioner

Location: At the end of a loop
Set V10 which was stabled on the down main at Leura, and was heavily tagged, appears to have been retrieved sometime this weekend. Is there really any need to get the other V-sets from Katoomba and places west?
Meanwhile work crews continue filling the washaway, which extends down into private properties. Bit of a mess...
NSWRcars

Currently there is only 4 car V sets operating on the Blue Mtns line which is typical (and sometimes adequate) for services out of peak hour times.

In Peak Hour with all the suburban interlopers, it was quite difficult to even physically get on / through the doors of the 5:05pm from Redfern to return to the mtns (only three 3 services stop at Redfern in the AM and PM respectively - thanks Gladys).

My normal morning service from Springwood (6;43am), people were standing by Blaxland and we are paying peak hour fares for this...

On other channels the current time for restoration of the line is now been quoted as being possibly the end of March...All the while RailCorp on Twitter keep saying "next week" each week.

Am lucky that I have been able to alter my working hours, am now leaving for work earlier and returning home earlier (outside of peak hour) the 4 car sets are still full with people standing in both directions, I cannot imagine what a possible month of this might mean. I cannot imagine how the upper mountains commuters might be feeling.

The Faux Glenbrook Boulder shutdown with bustitution was only 1-1/2 weeks or so.

Meanwhile more rain and possible thunderstorms is forecasts for the mountains over the next couple of days.

Here's hoping the line reopens soon.

Regards,

Catchpoint
  viaprojects Chief Train Controller



Willing to stand corrected, but if the V sets fit in the Non Electric Stock Loading Gauge (allowing for pantographs till Lithgow), which allows them to travel pass Springwood, then its reasonable to assume that with pantographs lowered that they could be safley towed west and via the south to return to Sydney.

Regards,

Catchpoint
catchpoint


pantographs do have issues ... no damage if they pop up under the wires ( inside gauge ).. but are an issue in an unwired zones and workshop areas where the pantographs can be damaged or other damage can happen due to raised pantographs...( outside gauge )

would note - there is no real lock on the pantograph unless you tie then down .. will need a crew to tie down the pantographs in a safe location away from live wires ... and inspection before returning to service ...
  ANR Chief Commissioner

The work is visible from the great western highway between Leura and Katoomba. What a mess. The crews are working hard, but it's going to take a while to stabilize this area. The line will be cut for some time.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
TfNSW forecast for reopening is 2 March
  catchpoint Assistant Commissioner

Location: At the end of a loop


Willing to stand corrected, but if the V sets fit in the Non Electric Stock Loading Gauge (allowing for pantographs till Lithgow), which allows them to travel pass Springwood, then its reasonable to assume that with pantographs lowered that they could be safley towed west and via the south to return to Sydney.

Regards,

Catchpoint

pantographs do have issues ... no damage if they pop up under the wires ( inside gauge ).. but are an issue in an unwired zones and workshop areas where the pantographs can be damaged or other damage can happen due to raised pantographs...( outside gauge )

would note - there is no real lock on the pantograph unless you tie then down .. will need a crew to tie down the pantographs in a safe location away from live wires ... and inspection before returning to service ...

viaprojects

Agreed,

I seem to recall reading that when a U set was steam hauled to Wallerawang and return on a tour back in the sixties (?) that there was a time delay because the pantographs "were tied down".

Is the power in the overhead currently even "switched on" from Mt Victoria to Lithgow anyway post bush fire damage? and / or from Springwood post landslip?

Are there not any un-wired sidings in Lithgow Yard?

No doubt if all the ducks were in a line, a decision was made, RailCorp 48's or private operator locos sent - WHS would suggest you cannot climb a ladder / use a scissor lift these days to do it...

Could the V sets not be pushed through a siding with elevated platforms in Lithgow Workshops after negotiation with the private operator? I mean after all were not the electric fleet serviced / stabled there ? 46 / 85 / 86? so the infrastructure should be in place still?

Regards,

Catchpoint
  simstrain Chief Commissioner



(Edit: corrected below by fzr560 (probably Sydenham > Enfield > Leightonfield)
marvi

Probably more like Flemington > Chullora > Leightonfield
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

More likely ran via Sydneham and Enfield as you can't directly access the freight lines, from the mains.
fzr560

Ah yes you can via OP but also there is probably nothing to stop it going out via the T8 as well.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

More likely ran via Sydneham and Enfield as you can't directly access the freight lines, from the mains.

Ah yes you can via OP but also there is probably nothing to stop it going out via the T8 as well.
simstrain
the V sets presently in Katoomba station are supposed to be loco hauled out tonight to Flemington to be prepared for service this weekend. 2nd March is the date for the reopening of the line through the Leura landslip.

Apparently there is rock fall problem towards Medlow Bath preventing any movements in between Katoomba and Mt Victoria. No ETA on this problem being sorted.

The outcome of a long dry spell followed by torrential rain.
  fzr560 Chief Train Controller

More likely ran via Sydneham and Enfield as you can't directly access the freight lines, from the mains.

Ah yes you can via OP but also there is probably nothing to stop it going out via the T8 as well.
simstrain
Hence the word, directly. Would you like to speculate on how many SFT crews are qualified around Olympic Park?
  NSWRcars Assistant Commissioner

the V sets presently in Katoomba station are supposed to be loco hauled out tonight to Flemington to be prepared for service this weekend. 2nd March is the date for the reopening of the line through the Leura landslip.
nswtrains
Up and Down main lines have been re-laid and graded, the collapsed overhead stanchion is replaced, and work on rewiring the overhead is well advanced. Earthworks and cleanup continue, particularly in the private properties below the landslip. The two V-sets stabled in Katoomba station are still there.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
the V sets presently in Katoomba station are supposed to be loco hauled out tonight to Flemington to be prepared for service this weekend. 2nd March is the date for the reopening of the line through the Leura landslip.
Up and Down main lines have been re-laid and graded, the collapsed overhead stanchion is replaced, and work on rewiring the overhead is well advanced. Earthworks and cleanup continue, particularly in the private properties below the landslip. The two V-sets stabled in Katoomba station are still there.
NSWRcars

To be hauled down very early Saturday morning.

UPDATE - Lithgow to Katoomba open to diesel traffic from 1900hrs Monday 24/2
  303gunner Station Master

the V sets presently in Katoomba station are supposed to be loco hauled out tonight to Flemington to be prepared for service this weekend. 2nd March is the date for the reopening of the line through the Leura landslip.
Up and Down main lines have been re-laid and graded, the collapsed overhead stanchion is replaced, and work on rewiring the overhead is well advanced. Earthworks and cleanup continue, particularly in the private properties below the landslip. The two V-sets stabled in Katoomba station are still there.

To be hauled down very early Saturday morning.

UPDATE - Lithgow to Katoomba open to diesel traffic from 1900hrs Monday 24/2
bingley hall
16 V Set cars were actually hauled from Mt Vic yard to Flemo CS in the early hours of this morning. More to follow in the coming days.

Of course, when they have all been transferred, that will be the time when services will recommence, but can't because there is no rolling stock left to form Up services;  there will have to be a mass movement of empties back to the mountains depots!
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
16 V Set cars were actually hauled from Mt Vic yard to Flemo CS in the early hours of this morning. More to follow in the coming days.

Of course, when they have all been transferred, that will be the time when services will recommence, but can't because there is no rolling stock left to form Up services;  there will have to be a mass movement of empties back to the mountains depots!
303gunner

Who did the haulage?

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