Holden Brand to be axed

 
  justapassenger Chief Commissioner

H2 without subscript is a truly craptastic former model of 4WD made by Hummer, soon to be joined by Holden on the pile of failed former GM brands.

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  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
I  thought H2 was like T377, but heavier. I' ll go now.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
I  thought H2 was like T377, but heavier. I' ll go now.
wobert

No, this is the real H2

  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
I  thought H2 was like T377, but heavier. I' ll go now.
"wobert"
I'm glad you didn't go; you would have missed a very good response.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
I recall my FJ still a great car.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Julia Gillard gave General Motors a huge grant to remain manufacturing in Australia in 2012 with the promise that they'd remain here until 2022 at least - here's a quote directly from her speech as reproduced in Michael Smith News;

This is a co-investment in every sense of the word. Between the Federal, South Australian and Victorian Governments, we are making an investment of $275 million. That joins with a more than billion-dollar investment from Holden to secure the future and because of the multiplier effect of making cars in this country, Holden's estimate is that that will generate more than $4 billion of value to the Australian economy.

$275,000,000, not exactly chump change. Why didn't the SA/VIC and Commonwealth governments get any of their money back when General Motors broke their promise? Likely Abbott and Hockey didn't care about getting that money back, he just wanted them gone.
  Carnot Chief Commissioner

Some massive bargains to be had if you're in the market for a new car:
https://www.caradvice.com.au/827940/holden-discounts-2/

$12K for some new cars.  Wow!
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE


$275,000,000, not exactly chump change. Why didn't the SA/VIC and Commonwealth governments get any of their money back when General Motors broke their promise? Likely Abbott and Hockey didn't care about getting that money back, he just wanted them gone.
don_dunstan
How do you know it wasn't?
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
H2 without subscript is a truly craptastic former model of 4WD made by Hummer, soon to be joined by Holden on the pile of failed former GM brands.
justapassenger
Well, until you find out that they're making an Electric Hummer.


Holden, much like Pontiac and Oldsmobile had the same issue with sales: They relied on the "my dad had one I'll get one too strategy". Works reasonably well until it doesnt.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
H2 without subscript is a truly craptastic former model of 4WD made by Hummer, soon to be joined by Holden on the pile of failed former GM brands.
justapassenger
Ahh, the civilian Hummer, a car so environmentally unfriendly that even the Chinese govt banned any Chinese company from making them.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
H2 without subscript is a truly craptastic former model of 4WD made by Hummer, soon to be joined by Holden on the pile of failed former GM brands.
Well, until you find out that they're making an Electric Hummer.


Holden, much like Pontiac and Oldsmobile had the same issue with sales: They relied on the "my dad had one I'll get one too strategy". Works reasonably well until it doesnt.
speedemon08
Ahh, the civilian Hummer, a car so environmentally unfriendly that even the Chinese govt banned any Chinese company from making them.

The EV version is I think someones desperate attempt to give something for GM to make that might actually sell.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud


$275,000,000, not exactly chump change. Why didn't the SA/VIC and Commonwealth governments get any of their money back when General Motors broke their promise? Likely Abbott and Hockey didn't care about getting that money back, he just wanted them gone.How do you know it wasn't?
RTT_Rules
If you have evidence to the contrary then by all means. But you don't, do you - you're just looking for an excuse to one-up me (as usual).
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE


$275,000,000, not exactly chump change. Why didn't the SA/VIC and Commonwealth governments get any of their money back when General Motors broke their promise? Likely Abbott and Hockey didn't care about getting that money back, he just wanted them gone.How do you know it wasn't?If you have evidence to the contrary then by all means. But you don't, do you - you're just looking for an excuse to one-up me (as usual).
don_dunstan
Two things
1) you have misquoted me
2) You don't know, so you are only guessing at best or misquoting at worst.

Smile
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
I recall my FJ still a great car.
freightgate
Was it like mine; reliable, simple, easily maintained, unpredictable and unsafe at any speed?
  12CSVT Chief Commissioner

Location: Drowning in accreditation red tape!
I  thought H2 was like T377, but heavier. I' ll go now.

No, this is the real H2

RTT_Rules
Hmmm. That photo looks familiar!

Cheers,
SZ
  M636C Minister for Railways

I recall my FJ still a great car.
Was it like mine; reliable, simple, easily maintained, unpredictable and unsafe at any speed?
YM-Mundrabilla
An uncle had a 48-215 that he used for teaching people to drive.
He would only drive it with a full bag of cement in the boot to give it some stability.

My father had an FC which I was too young to drive.
A friend bought one in 1977 which I found quite scary to drive.
I'm not sure whether it just needed new shock absorbers....

I later had a VR Commodore which was a really good handling car but things just kept failing and the seat upholstery was not really up to the job. I haven't had another Holden.

Peter
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Two things
1) you have misquoted me
2) You don't know, so you are only guessing at best or misquoting at worst.

Smile
RTT_Rules
LOL yeah there's 20,000 jobs at stake, doofus.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
For years I relied on the faithful FE. A couple of things needed attention in the engine - one fibre gear stripped a couple of teeth, and a fuel pump drive failed. Other wise, it just went, admittedly aided by regular servicing and tuning. It was the easiest thing to work on - you lifted the bonnet and there was an easily accessible engine. Nowadays it's a plumbers' and electricians' nightmare.

To fit new distributor points, you just turned the engine to top dead centre, and lifted the distributor out. Then, hold it in a vise, fit and set the points, and drop it back in. Tappets were easy to set with the engine running, a set of plugs and a clean out of the carby occasionally, and that was it. Grease and oil change and away it went.

Brakes was a dirty word, but one learned to live with that. The one thing that made a remarkable difference was fitting a set of Michelin X tyres; it almost handled properly and the tyres lasted for umpteen thousand miles more than any others had ever done.
  neillfarmer Chief Train Controller

We are witnessing the slow death of GM. Rather than meet competition with better product and better customer service they are electing to concentrate on 'more profitable' markets. Retreating back to the US from the world will be the next step.
I've had a few GM-Holden products, all of them had fundamental problems that dealers were unable or unwilling to solve. (air conditioners failing, overheating at highway speeds, high oil usage, V8s with lower performance that V6 cars etc. not to mention pretending endemic problems with diesel Captivas didn't exist) They have been going down hill for years, just reaching the bottom now.
The whole enterprise has been in retreat for some time, selling off whole divisions "to concentrate on more profitable...etc"
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
I recall my FJ still a great car.
Was it like mine; reliable, simple, easily maintained, unpredictable and unsafe at any speed?
An uncle had a 48-215 that he used for teaching people to drive.
He would only drive it with a full bag of cement in the boot to give it some stability.

My father had an FC which I was too young to drive.
A friend bought one in 1977 which I found quite scary to drive.
I'm not sure whether it just needed new shock absorbers....

I later had a VR Commodore which was a really good handling car but things just kept failing and the seat upholstery was not really up to the job. I haven't had another Holden.

Peter
M636C
I too had a bag of cement in the boot of mine!Smile
My 48-215 had lever action shockers which one 'oiled round' every so often.
In an emergency stop one never knew which way you would be facing when the bloody thing eventually came to rest.

Holdens did progressively improve over the years but it wasn't only older Holdens that had significant shortcomings. Over the years rust was a significant problem and, as M636C says, the upholstery wasn't up to much for some years but it seems that the relatively later cars were very good.

Either way recent Holdens were far better cars than some European models such as VW (Polo) and Opel (Barina) which turned me from a GM person to a Toyota one.

VW could have given the Polo away free and just charged for the repairs. It was, still is (sadly) the original Bastard Car. Spent too much on it to be able to get rid of it ................Sad
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
We are witnessing the slow death of GM. Rather than meet competition with better product and better customer service they are electing to concentrate on 'more profitable' markets. Retreating back to the US from the world will be the next step.
I've had a few GM-Holden products, all of them had fundamental problems that dealers were unable or unwilling to solve. (air conditioners failing, overheating at highway speeds, high oil usage, V8s with lower performance that V6 cars etc. not to mention pretending endemic problems with diesel Captivas didn't exist) They have been going down hill for years, just reaching the bottom now.
The whole enterprise has been in retreat for some time, selling off whole divisions "to concentrate on more profitable...etc"
neillfarmer
Pan Am died the same death -
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
I  thought H2 was like T377, but heavier. I' ll go now.

No, this is the real H2

RTT_Rules
I'll double ya

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victorian_Railways_H_class#/media/File:H220-Newport.jpg
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Interesting read

https://www.theage.com.au/national/holden-s-problem-was-not-the-taxpayer-subsidies-20200218-p541ww.html
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Interesting read

https://www.theage.com.au/national/holden-s-problem-was-not-the-taxpayer-subsidies-20200218-p541ww.html
  neillfarmer Chief Train Controller

Interesting read

https://www.theage.com.au/national/holden-s-problem-was-not-the-taxpayer-subsidies-20200218-p541ww.html
wobert
The Age article raises interesting questions. To what extent should the people of Australia prop up failing industries and businesses in order to preserve employment? Should governments featherbed their public service to make the state's unemployment figures look better or buy votes with padded salaries? Should States purchase major infrastructure from the cheapest overseas supplier rather than use contractors in their own state? What of Australian shareholders who are all to eager to sell their companies to foreign entities for a quick profit?
We really need some national policies and guidelines on these questions.

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