The corona virus COVID-19

 
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
I have been surprised (but pleased) how much more proactive the NZ Government has been than Australia. I moved from Sydney to Dunedin just over 10 years ago and became a Kiwi 4 years ago. Last year I needed an operation which is much more expensive here than in Australia, so I did not make my usual yearly trip to either Europe or North America. I did go to Sydney for Easter/Anzac and joked that my other overseas trip was to Wellington for 6 nights. I was making up for it this year with a flight to Sydney on April 14 then on to Doha on April 18 then to Bucharest, Bulgaria, Albania, Kosovo and finally 3 weeks in Greece returning to Sydney on June 16 and Dunedin on June 20. Obviously all now cancelled as I deal with cancellations, refunds and vouchers from tour companies, hotels and 4 different airlines.

I am most concerned that my only relatives with whom I am in contact are in their mid 80's and live in a high rise block in Chatswood. I am amazed at how different it is here. Because I live alone, I am officially in a 'bubble' of 1 and cannot meet up with any friends. I can only drive to the supermarket, chemist or medical centre or to get fuel. While we do not have the technology of the UAE, I am told there are police roadblocks on the edge of the city. I can go out for exercise but preferably not by car. There are no restaurants, no takeaways, no deliveries of cooked food except for meals on wheels.
Last Saturday we went into Level 2 and those over 70 like me were 'requested' to stay isolated. However I went to Mitre 10 for garden supplies and even bought a cappuccino on Monday just before we went to level 3 when cafes were shut but I still bought fish 'n chips on Tuesday night, not possible now. I went back for more supplies on Tuesday but by then no cafe open. I now wish I had bought more supplies. At midnight on Wednesday we went to Level 4.
I worked in the garden on Thursday, went for a 5 km walk from my home into bushland on Friday, passing anybody as far apart as the metre wide track allowed, just saying 'hi' even to the one person I did know. Hopefully back into the garden today and looking forward to the supermarket tomorrow when I will discover how the new restrictions work.
My sister in Sydney is trying her best but her husband gets easily bored, understandably living in a unit. Yesterday she agreed to go with a drive with him to Lane Cove National Park and tells me it was crowded. She bought milk shakes from a cafe and the owner had to tell a family to leave as they sat down to eat on a bench despite all the chairs being up on tables. She stood way back and used hand sanitiser before picking up the milk shakes then nearly dropped them as they were slippery.
I am so thankful my sister made 2 trips to Dunedin last year, in March for my operation then again in December when we took a road trip and spent 2 nights in Cromwell. We Skype every morning but when I moved here I always thought in any emergency I could be back in Sydney within 24 hours. At that time there were direct flights in Summer now I have to fly via Christchurch but still only  a little over 4 hours in the air, about 6 or 7 door to door.  However I wish the shutdown in Sydney was more like NZ even though I wonder if I will be sane in (now) at least 24 days.
Brianr
Thanks for that.

To be honest I don't think what NZ has done is necessary, Level 3 maybe, however Australia was also lagging on some actions and there have been a number of missed opportunities. Ruby cruise ship being one. From what I've read I also blame our dual govt system and lack of transparency for the community. People blaming the PM for State based roles etc. Just look in their group for trying to identify who is responsible for that Sydney Cruise ship and again in WA for those ships. NZ is more obvious where the buck stops and with who having neither upper house nor states.

Other issues include
- the Uni Chancellors encouraging the spread via students returning from China and not just Aust, but 3rd countries as well.  
- Getting tough up front on self isolation, people should have been issued a legal notice, 5 figure fines that are actually enforced and random checks.
- Closure of many public activities quickly
- Closure of the border faster.

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  Carnot Minister for Railways

Meanwhile....
  ANR Chief Commissioner

Should have landed them all in Darwin, and kept them in the same facility as the Wuhan evacuees if 5 star is not good enough. Would not have needed this kind of security.

If it were up to me, I would have landed them in Forrest.


https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/coronavirus-arrivals-to-australia-complain-about-quarantine-in-hotels/news-story/bff5101eba3cf0adc3c36df8dcd4048e
  stooge spark Chief Train Controller

Location: My House
Should have landed them all in Darwin, and kept them in the same facility as the Wuhan evacuees if 5 star is not good enough. Would not have needed this kind of security.

If it were up to me, I would have landed them in Forrest.


https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/coronavirus-arrivals-to-australia-complain-about-quarantine-in-hotels/news-story/bff5101eba3cf0adc3c36df8dcd4048e
ANR
I don't normally like your takes on Co-ro-no, but I agree with you here.
They have the f***ing nerve to complain about being in conditions that are far better then the conditions that many people have to deal with from day to day.

I would totally be happy being in quarantine if it meant I get to live in a 5-star hotel for free.

Honestly, I reckon we let em have their 14 days of heaven, then kick em out of their country, forever, never allowed to come back.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Norda Fittazroy
People blaming the PM for State based roles etc. Just look in their group for trying to identify who is responsible for that Sydney Cruise ship and again in WA for those ships. NZ is more obvious where the buck stops and with who having neither upper house nor states.
RTT_Rules"
It is blindingly obvious that the Feds screwed up. Ruby Princess docked at the International Terminal in Sydney. For passengers, that is the frontier. Customs, Immigration, Visas and Quarantine are Federal responsibilities, and that's where they happen.
Within Australia, Health is dual Federal/State/Territory controlled. That has nothing to do with Border Protection.
Morrison and Dutton are happy to boast about border protection when it suits them. This time, they had nothing to boast about and remembered their studies in Buck-Passing 101
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Going into the next election, the attack ads over the ScoMo Recession and ScoMo's Open Borders are going to be juicy.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
People blaming the PM for State based roles etc. Just look in their group for trying to identify who is responsible for that Sydney Cruise ship and again in WA for those ships. NZ is more obvious where the buck stops and with who having neither upper house nor states.
It is blindingly obvious that the Feds screwed up. Ruby Princess docked at the International Terminal in Sydney. For passengers, that is the frontier. Customs, Immigration, Visas and Quarantine are Federal responsibilities, and that's where they happen.
Within Australia, Health is dual Federal/State/Territory controlled. That has nothing to do with Border Protection.
Morrison and Dutton are happy to boast about border protection when it suits them. This time, they had nothing to boast about and remembered their studies in Buck-Passing 101
Valvegear
Yes and no. I agreed up until the statements coming from the WA Premier about his own boats. He has banned them from entering the port/berth, not the Feds if I read this correctly.

The whole Border Protection statements in the past were about boats that have entered the country illegally. If I recall correctly Ruby Princess was legally in Australian waters and going to the dock with permission of the Harbour Master, all controlled by the state.

What I will state is yes, the way the passengers left was wrong and it would appear both state and feds were asleep at the wheel on this because even if the Feds have the sole accountability for controlling who gets off the boat, the state had every right to force these people onto a bus or issue compulsory isolation notice.

Overall, the Ruby Princess was a F_up!
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Yes and no. I agreed up until the statements coming from the WA Premier about his own boats. He has banned them from entering the port/berth, not the Feds if I read this correctly.
"RTT_Rules"
The WA premier controls the port's facilities, not the country's border. He can deny a vessel the use of those facilities.

The whole Border Protection statements in the past were about boats that have entered the country illegally. If I recall correctly Ruby Princess was legally in Australian waters and going to the dock with permission of the Harbour Master, all controlled by the state.
"RTT_Rules"
So what? The question is border security; whether vessels were legally in our waters or not is irrelevant. The inescapable fact remains that Morrison and Dutton have boasted ad nauseaum on how tough they are defending the country's border, and this time they screwed up big time.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
People blaming the PM for State based roles etc. Just look in their group for trying to identify who is responsible for that Sydney Cruise ship and again in WA for those ships. NZ is more obvious where the buck stops and with who having neither upper house nor states.
It is blindingly obvious that the Feds screwed up. Ruby Princess docked at the International Terminal in Sydney. For passengers, that is the frontier. Customs, Immigration, Visas and Quarantine are Federal responsibilities, and that's where they happen.
Within Australia, Health is dual Federal/State/Territory controlled. That has nothing to do with Border Protection.
Morrison and Dutton are happy to boast about border protection when it suits them. This time, they had nothing to boast about and remembered their studies in Buck-Passing 101
Valvegear
Like the meme going around at the moment, "Imagine making stopping boats the centrepiece of your entire political platform for 10 years, and then failing to stop the one boat that actually [expletive] mattered."
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
Should have landed them all in Darwin, and kept them in the same facility as the Wuhan evacuees if 5 star is not good enough. Would not have needed this kind of security.

If it were up to me, I would have landed them in Forrest.


https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/coronavirus-arrivals-to-australia-complain-about-quarantine-in-hotels/news-story/bff5101eba3cf0adc3c36df8dcd4048e
I don't normally like your takes on Co-ro-no, but I agree with you here.
They have the f***ing nerve to complain about being in conditions that are far better then the conditions that many people have to deal with from day to day.

I would totally be happy being in quarantine if it meant I get to live in a 5-star hotel for free.

Honestly, I reckon we let em have their 14 days of heaven, then kick em out of their country, forever, never allowed to come back.
stooge spark
They're not all 5-star. Ibis hotels etc. are also being used.

Some rooms are 20 sq.m max with no opening window. Meals are basic and not what is on the menu.

Knock yourself out.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
60 minutes tonight showing the lies and more lies of China over the virus and Xi ordering medical people to not advise the WHO.

Terrible as this could have been avoided.
  ANR Chief Commissioner

Where can you hide all the bodies making up the unofficial number? There were reports that patients were being zipped up in bodybags still alive for the furnace.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/photos-of-urns-raise-questions-about-chinas-virus-death-tally/news-story/a871109c1e3c8588873ce40158180cd0
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
How do we know that it has stopped in China?
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
People blaming the PM for State based roles etc. Just look in their group for trying to identify who is responsible for that Sydney Cruise ship and again in WA for those ships. NZ is more obvious where the buck stops and with who having neither upper house nor states.
It is blindingly obvious that the Feds screwed up. Ruby Princess docked at the International Terminal in Sydney. For passengers, that is the frontier. Customs, Immigration, Visas and Quarantine are Federal responsibilities, and that's where they happen.
Within Australia, Health is dual Federal/State/Territory controlled. That has nothing to do with Border Protection.
Morrison and Dutton are happy to boast about border protection when it suits them. This time, they had nothing to boast about and remembered their studies in Buck-Passing 101
Yes and no. I agreed up until the statements coming from the WA Premier about his own boats. He has banned them from entering the port/berth, not the Feds if I read this correctly.

The whole Border Protection statements in the past were about boats that have entered the country illegally. If I recall correctly Ruby Princess was legally in Australian waters and going to the dock with permission of the Harbour Master, all controlled by the state.

What I will state is yes, the way the passengers left was wrong and it would appear both state and feds were asleep at the wheel on this because even if the Feds have the sole accountability for controlling who gets off the boat, the state had every right to force these people onto a bus or issue compulsory isolation notice.

Overall, the Ruby Princess was a F_up!
RTT_Rules
Agree that the Ruby Princess was a massive debacle, but I am pleased that the Govt is now starting to take this thing seriously, hopefully we have avoided being a disaster zone such as some European Countries have been, (might be a little bit too early to tell I know, but I believe the curve is showing signs of flattening here)
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Yes and no. I agreed up until the statements coming from the WA Premier about his own boats. He has banned them from entering the port/berth, not the Feds if I read this correctly.
The WA premier controls the port's facilities, not the country's border. He can deny a vessel the use of those facilities.

The whole Border Protection statements in the past were about boats that have entered the country illegally. If I recall correctly Ruby Princess was legally in Australian waters and going to the dock with permission of the Harbour Master, all controlled by the state.
So what? The question is border security; whether vessels were legally in our waters or not is irrelevant. The inescapable fact remains that Morrison and Dutton have boasted ad nauseaum on how tough they are defending the country's border, and this time they screwed up big time.
Valvegear
So you agree
- The boats were legally in Australian waters and that the feds did nothing wrong allowing boats with Australia citizens on them in Australian waters.

- The NSW Premier controls the NSW port facilities and therefore could have and likely should have denied landing.

- The fed's control the physical immigration process and yes actions could have been done here.

Dual govt stuff up!

Correct?

How this is linked in any way shape or form with illegal immigrants, I have no idea, but without a shadow of a doubt you will tell me.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Where can you hide all the bodies making up the unofficial number? There were reports that patients were being zipped up in bodybags still alive for the furnace.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/photos-of-urns-raise-questions-about-chinas-virus-death-tally/news-story/a871109c1e3c8588873ce40158180cd0
ANR
Burning bodies aka Nazi style who survived the gas chamber but incapacitated is a very strong statement.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
It is blindingly obvious that the Feds screwed up. Ruby Princess docked at the International Terminal in Sydney. For passengers, that is the frontier. Customs, Immigration, Visas and Quarantine are Federal responsibilities, and that's where they happen.
Within Australia, Health is dual Federal/State/Territory controlled. That has nothing to do with Border Protection.
Morrison and Dutton are happy to boast about border protection when it suits them. This time, they had nothing to boast about and remembered their studies in Buck-Passing 101
Like the meme going around at the moment, "Imagine making stopping boats the centrepiece of your entire political platform for 10 years, and then failing to stop the one boat that actually [expletive] mattered."
DirtyBallast
Very long bow to compare letting Ozzies into the country who might or die have a virus compared to illegal immigrants.

The left have a proven history of policy failure in this regard with over 50,000 illegals. What Billy may or maynot have done is pure speculative, but unlikely to have changed a great deal.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Norda Fittazroy
So you agree

- The boats were legally in Australian waters and that the feds did nothing wrong allowing boats with Australia citizens on them in Australian waters.

- The NSW Premier controls the NSW port facilities and therefore could have and likely should have denied landing.

- The fed's control the physical immigration process and yes actions could have been done here.

Dual govt stuff up!

Correct?

How this is linked in any way shape or form with illegal immigrants, I have no idea, but without a shadow of a doubt you will tell me.
"RTT_Rules"

For God's sake, it is linked to illegal immigrants because you singled them out and, as I said at the time, it was irrelevant.

The point is quite simple; whether it's illegal immigrants or Ruby Princess or Old Uncle Tom Cobley, it's all bloody border protection.

You talk about boats legally in Australian waters and nobody has disputed this. But, there is a vast difference between Australian waters and the frontier which passengers have to cross. The Feds failed at the frontier.  The NSW Premier could have denied landing rights no doubt, but she's not clairvoyant would have had no reason to believe that the Feds would fail to do their job properly. Suggesting now what she should have done is pure hindsight, but at least the WA Premier learnt from it that his Federal brethren couldn't be trusted.

If the Feds want to boast about border protection, they have to do all of it; not just the boat people. One wonders why this is so difficult to comprehend.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
A good read:  https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2020/03/slomo-loses-control-as-canberra-bubble-pops/#comments

And a comment by Gunnamatta is rather succinct.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
It is blindingly obvious that the Feds screwed up. Ruby Princess docked at the International Terminal in Sydney. For passengers, that is the frontier. Customs, Immigration, Visas and Quarantine are Federal responsibilities, and that's where they happen.
Within Australia, Health is dual Federal/State/Territory controlled. That has nothing to do with Border Protection.
Morrison and Dutton are happy to boast about border protection when it suits them. This time, they had nothing to boast about and remembered their studies in Buck-Passing 101
Like the meme going around at the moment, "Imagine making stopping boats the centrepiece of your entire political platform for 10 years, and then failing to stop the one boat that actually [expletive] mattered."
Very long bow to compare letting Ozzies into the country who might or die have a virus compared to illegal immigrants.

The left have a proven history of policy failure in this regard with over 50,000 illegals. What Billy may or maynot have done is pure speculative, but unlikely to have changed a great deal.
RTT_Rules
Most of us are talking about the management of a boat. You keep talking about illegal immigrants. OK, have it your way. If you want to compare numbers, why don't you tell the whole truth? Like the 100,000 illegals that have arrived by plane in the past five years? Or are you just going to talk about boats again?
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

A released passenger manifest of the Ruby Princess, may be enlightening.
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
I think now, more than ever, we need a good prime minister who, when faced with a difficult situation, just acts on it a soon as possible
We need a prime minister like John Howard or John Curtin, both of whom were not perfect, but when faced with a major situation just acted on it the right way and, in the case of the latter, managed to bring both parties together to decide on and achieve a result that would be beneficial to all.
We need one who doesn't blame the state governments for his or her own mistakes, one who isn't from marketing, one who doesn't say that he sends his children to independent schools to prevent false information being spread to his children through public schools.

Could we have a prime minister that acknowledges climate change, one that doesn't change every 4 years and one that actually has leadership for his own country for once
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

I think now, more than ever, we need a good prime minister who, when faced with a difficult situation, just acts on it a soon as possible
We need a prime minister like John Howard or John Curtin, both of whom were not perfect, but when faced with a major situation just acted on it the right way and, in the case of the latter, managed to bring both parties together to decide on and achieve a result that would be beneficial to all.
We need one who doesn't blame the state governments for his or her own mistakes, one who isn't from marketing, one who doesn't say that he sends his children to independent schools to prevent false information being spread to his children through public schools.

Could we have a prime minister that acknowledges climate change, one that doesn't change every 4 years and one that actually has leadership for his own country for once
DCook
Trying to find which one of those boxes the present pm ticks, failing dismally.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Other issues include
- the Uni Chancellors encouraging the spread via students returning from China and not just Aust, but 3rd countries as well.  
- Getting tough up front on self isolation, people should have been issued a legal notice, 5 figure fines that are actually enforced and random checks.
- Closure of many public activities quickly
- Closure of the border faster.
RTT_Rules
Uni Vice Chancellors were trying desperately to protect their seven-figure pay packets and they didn't give a damn about potentially exposing domestic students to infectious people from overseas.

South Australian Police are now fining people for not being at home when they're supposed to be - I believe the other states are already doing that.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Very long bow to compare letting Ozzies into the country who might or die have a virus compared to illegal immigrants.

The left have a proven history of policy failure in this regard with over 50,000 illegals. What Billy may or maynot have done is pure speculative, but unlikely to have changed a great deal.
Most of us are talking about the management of a boat. You keep talking about illegal immigrants. OK, have it your way. If you want to compare numbers, why don't you tell the whole truth? Like the 100,000 illegals that have arrived by plane in the past five years? Or are you just going to talk about boats again?
DirtyBallast
The problem is that we have to take every single application for asylum seriously as per the International Convention on Refugees; we need to dump participation in those United Nations conventions that are causing too many problems.

I used to meet people when I was doing housing in Melbourne who were just taking the p*ss out the system - people who had applied for asylum from New Zealand and the United States simply because their existing visa had run out and they didn't want to go home - people who were from Malaysia or India and didn't want to go through the standard process of applying for an education visas; they just wanted to work for a few years so they could send money back home.

As it stands (present situation throwing it into hiatus of course) pretty much anyone can come from any part of the world and claim asylum once they get here and expect it will be at least two or three years before their case is heard - longer if they get one of those migration agents to drag it out for them. In the meantime they're allowed full work rights and are competing against lowly paid Australians for the few service industry jobs that are left.

A real deterrent would be to process those people as soon as they claim and deport them immediately if they don't have a prima facie case.

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