The corona virus COVID-19

 
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

I have Australian friends of Asian appearance who cop this smeg all the time.
I have an Australian wife with Aboriginal heritage who has been abused in the vein of "You Asians come here and take over 'our' country" by a white "Australian"! Rolling Eyes
Graham4405
Yep, some need to take a good hard look at themselves. No one should cop abuse because of their race, religion or sexual orientation. It is a pity that some just do not get it.


Michael

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  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

I have Australian friends of Asian appearance who cop this smeg all the time.
I have an Australian wife with Aboriginal heritage who has been abused in the vein of "You Asians come here and take over 'our' country" by a white "Australian"! Rolling Eyes


Sorry to hear, some people are real dumb ar$e FW's.

My Australian born wife is 50% Chinese Malay, but more often than not gets "accused" of being Maori and / or told to go back to China when her family left China for Malaysia before the English arrived in Australia.

I'm sure the Aboriginals have their own more accurate view on which race took over Australia.
RTT_Rules
You are much better and restrained than I RTT, kudos to you, In fact kudos to Graham4405 and your partners as well, it must be so tiresome, dealing with that rubbish. If some no mark had a go at my girls (who are bi-racial) I would be in their face.


Michael
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
I have Australian friends of Asian appearance who cop this smeg all the time.
I have an Australian wife with Aboriginal heritage who has been abused in the vein of "You Asians come here and take over 'our' country" by a white "Australian"! Rolling Eyes


Sorry to hear, some people are real dumb ar$e FW's.

My Australian born wife is 50% Chinese Malay, but more often than not gets "accused" of being Maorthe i and / or told to go back to China when her family left China for Malaysia before the English arrived in Australia.

I'm sure the Aboriginals have their own more accurate view on which race took over Australia.
You are much better and restrained than I RTT, kudos to you, In fact kudos to Graham4405 and your partners as well, it must be so tiresome, dealing with that rubbish. If some no mark had a go at my girls (who are bi-racial) I would be in their face.


Michael
mejhammers1

You deal with it as it comes, violence is always the best answer for dumb arses, public humiliation works much better.

I can tell you my FIL is on self isolation from the Bearded Dragon, Tamborine for fear of being arrested because the Manager or former Manager as it was over 10 years ago made some reference to my Asian MIL. When he was still teaching the school Principle organised a special event for the teachers, end of year thing. He had to explain why he couldn't go,  the Principle agreed but too late to change booking.

When we go to Malaysia you can see the locals looking at her, they know she's different, some ask. When we first hooked up on the first trip I cannot tell how many times she was asked to model by random's. Asian's love asian's with a some "white" features. Paler skin, more western eyes, taller. Just like in India, nearly all mainstream TV advertising the Indian's in the adverts are often "whiter" than me after month in Nth Europe in middle of winter and I'm a redhead, two weeks no sun and any colour I have is complete gooonnnneeee, much to the amusement of my wife.

In Dubai, wife's default race by others is "White", mostly because of me and if with the boys same as they have olive skin but nothing that screams a specific race and theirs eyes are not that obvious.  When we lived in India she could walk down the market and people wouldn't even take a 2nd look unless up close if she dressed neutral. She hated taking me as all the beggers would come up.

As I've said before, racism in Australia is rare and at times hurtful, but nothing like what we see in many other countries where its more cultural. My MIL is like most Asian women, on arrival to Australia (she was single and a nurse) she changed her first name to a western name. Recently I asked her why she moved to Australia back in early 70's, she said she never had a Chinese Boy Friend and could never see herself having one. Too many things she didn't like. Interesting in her family, a cousin also here has 4 kids, 1 male, 3 female. 1 male married with kids,  1 female married, no kids and other two never married and no partners in 20 years I've known them, Again recently I asked quietly if there was something going on, she said she believes (asians don't talk about this stuff openly so no one knows or asks) the others had no asian boyfriends at one stage and received negative feedback from parents, so they have protested for 40 years now (and my wife's two unmarried female cousins at age 60 are far from ugly, one especially is bloody hot, she could walk into a bar of 20 yr olds and go home with who ever she wanted)). Not getting married and for other likely not having kids despite her asian husband. As the parents are in very much their final years it will be interesting to see what changes after they are gone.

Of interest, my MIL is the first to say that in Sydney too many Asian's live in concentrated groups and says they don't help the situation. My in laws were living in Chatswood where I worked in the late 80's, so a visit there 3 years back was a bit of an eye opener.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
As we are nearing the end of Corona in Aus and NZ a few stats

Cases per 1m population
Aust  265 per 1m pop
NZ    308

Deaths per 1m population
Both on 4 noting Oz had two cruise ships to deal with which heavily swayed the outcome.

Tests per 1m population
Aust 23,000
NZ   30,000

Both countries very similar I suppose, however NZ did go into a tighter lock down and still declaring new cases when I would have thought they would be done. I do suspect NZ has done more economic harm in their lock down as a result.

Its interesting that NZ get thrown up in lights on their approach in international media, Australia not so much.

In comparison to many other countries, both countries will be used as a bench marks in case studies going forward.

I suspect both countries will quickly move to open up from Monday through to July including air travel between the two.
  Brianr Assistant Commissioner

Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
Our TV News just made some comments in reference to this. Before the lockdown the NZ reproduction rate (which apparently is most important to experts) was 4.5 similar to Italy while no state in Australia went much above 3.
I can also add that about 25% of NZ population are Maori and Pacifica which are most vulnerable both due to other illness and lifestyle. There were some jokes at the beginning of the lockdown that, as we Pakeha were refraining from shaking hands, we hoped the Maori completely abolished the hongi.
The Pacific islands have been even more restrictive. Cook Islanders wanting to return home have to undergo 2 weeks isolation in Auckland then another 2 weeks in the Cook Islands. Samoa with the measles epidemic fresh in their minds have been very rigorous.
I notice the Northern Territory while relaxing many restrictions is still banning entry to Aboriginal lands.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

The different approaches by NZ and Australia reflect different situations - Australia did a better job of preventing it getting out of control, while NZ did an effective job at putting the brakes on once it had accelerated further.

The difference in international reaction to Australia is probably a result of Australia's criticism of the WHO and the PRC. We should be demanding that NZ follow suit as a condition of giving the resumption of NZ-Australia international travel a higher priority than travel from any other part of the world.

The NZ stats are probably helped by having a much larger chunk of their population residing in Australia (where they count towards Australian COVID-19 cases but not to the Australian population) than the other way around. The cases per population would probably diverge further and the testing rate converge if NZ citizens in Australia had their cases count towards the NZ total and vice versa.
  Brianr Assistant Commissioner

Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
That is ridiculous. If I was to catch COVID  19, would I as a dual citizen, be regarded as half for each country. Please God it does not happen but as I was last in OZ in April 2019, it would be obvious I caught it in NZ. Actually most NZ cases are due to returning citizens and thankfully there has been no case in the Southern District Health Board (bottom of the South Island - Dunedin, Invercargill, Queenstown) in the last 14 days.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

That's the point - it's ridiculous to have cases count where they are located if they don't count as part of the population.

Count both locally or neither.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Most NZers in Australia are NZ citizens not Australian or dual.

Likewise, even locally in Australia, a Queenslander picking up the virus in Victoria was counted as a Queensland positive result.

I have a friend that works with Covid-19 patients in the most expensive building in the nation. She was telling me about the number of cases they had reported and when I asked why that didn’t match the SA Health stats she said it was because there were people infected interstate and although remained there in treatment, were counted on the SA score card.
  Brianr Assistant Commissioner

Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
Well what a mess of the world wide statistics that reasoning would make. How many cases in the UK are workers from the continent? The EU country figures would be a mess. I believe the new wave of cases in Singapore are mainly among foreign workers and I would wonder at the stats for the UAE as well when there are so many foreign workers living there.  I am fairly sure that Privacy laws in NZ would not allow the publication of such figures. It should be based on your current residence status.
In the first 6 years after emigrating, I would fill in arrival cards as an Australian citizen New Zealand resident. Once when entering the USA, the customs official asked me what I had to do to become a NZ resident. I replied I boarded the plane.   I thought it was so wonderful that the two countries have such a relationship.  
At Anzac day ceremonies I am so proud to sing both my National anthems but sometimes I wonder at the attitude of some Australians. I have been abused as a traitor by some Aussies yet have been so warmly welcomed here in NZ.
  justarider Deputy Commissioner

Location: Bored at home
That's the point - it's ridiculous to have cases count where they are located if they don't count as part of the population.

Count both locally or neither.
justapassenger
Indeed.
I'm using JAP's comment because its the briefest and more accurate than all the waffle.

Population counts for all instances are based upon where people are at the time the relevant question is posed.
ie: what state were you in when the CV19 was identified.
In the case of CV it's even more simplified, since once identified you ain't going nowhere.

state population = how many people slept in that state on census night. Regularly updated by sampling using the same basis.

The status of citizenship, visa, residency or just visiting overnight has absolutely no bearing. Those interesting sub-classes are also identified but for other purposes.

cheers
John
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
The different approaches by NZ and Australia reflect different situations - Australia did a better job of preventing it getting out of control, while NZ did an effective job at putting the brakes on once it had accelerated further.

The difference in international reaction to Australia is probably a result of Australia's criticism of the WHO and the PRC. We should be demanding that NZ follow suit as a condition of giving the resumption of NZ-Australia international travel a higher priority than travel from any other part of the world. Laughing

The NZ stats are probably helped by having a much larger chunk of their population residing in Australia (where they count towards Australian COVID-19 cases but not to the Australian population) than the other way around. The cases per population would probably diverge further and the testing rate converge if NZ citizens in Australia had their cases count towards the NZ total and vice versa.
justapassenger

My God have you had a lobotomy and had half of your brain replaced by dd's ?

Is this whole Aus vs NZ some kind of faaaarken race?

It is only the media that is putting NZ on a pedestal, but many of you seem to want to make it personal. Sucked in by the media big-time Razz

A woman, slightly left leaning, would have nothing to do with it.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Cases are reported against the jurisdiction they reported positive in, it doesn't get any simpler. Hence any expat in Australia is counted against Aust or the state they were in.

Yes we know others catch it and relocate only to test positive elsewhere, but this is only relevant for control of spread monitoring.  


Brian, what you said about the Natives at higher risk of getting more seriously ill or even dying. There are reports from USA that African American's are dis-proportionally reporting more cases. So its likely the native and African heritage populations have less natural resistance to it. This would not be the first time something like this has occurred, lactose intolerance is similar.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
So its likely the native and African heritage populations have less natural resistance to it.
RTT_Rules
Ahh, good ol' white supremacy.

More likely the native and African heritage populations generally work in occupations that make it more difficult to adhere to social distancing guidelines.

Mr P, you sound like the bigots opposed to the Tuskagee Airmen back in WWII. Making assumptions that they were more predisposed to blacking out under high G-forces because of their naturally flat noses which could ultimately restrict oxygen flow to the brain. In fact they were superior pilots in almost every sense.

Please stop making stuff up.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
So its likely the native and African heritage populations have less natural resistance to it.
RTT_Rules
Ahh, good ol' white supremacy.

More likely the native and African heritage populations generally work in occupations that make it more difficult to adhere to social distancing guidelines.

Mr P, you sound like the bigots opposed to the Tuskagee Airmen back in WWII. Making assumptions that they were more predisposed to blacking out under high G-forces because of their naturally flat noses which could ultimately restrict oxygen flow to the brain. In fact they were superior pilots in almost every sense.

Please stop making stuff up.
"DirtyBallast"


There are two ways you could have discussed above

1) Simply added "have you considered" or "but more likely" increased rates on infection is driven by economic factors and we could have a adult conversation for which I would have likely agreed with you.

Or

2) you could be a complete F^$##$ and twist into a racist rant. Congrats do you want a Hi 5?

I don't think you will spend long digging into medical research to find we don't all respond to the same bugs and drugs the same way and some way, whether it be by sex, age and even DNA. I used Lactose intolerant example before and my understanding is drugs such as Primaquine which has issues with some racial groups (notable African and Middle East) more than others. I know you see this as the bugs and drugs being racist, but unfortunately the bugs don't see race colour as they don't have eyes and inside your body and focus on deeper differences. I myself cannot take a certain Malaria drug because of the colour of my skin, so much for your white supremacy theory, hell even my eyesight has a racially driven deficiency.

Now if you want to grow up and discuss the differences in infection rates due to socio-economic factors, by all means.

I don't know who Mr P you are referring to is?
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
I am not sure that the number of cases in African Americans are disproportionate, they may well be, and that may we’ll be occupational, I don’t know.

What I do know though, is that once contracted African Americans are at DOUBLE the risk of dying from contracting the virus than ‘white’ Americans - that is likely not occupational. One hypothesis (tenuous though it may be) might be that as Covid-19 is in the same class of viruses as the ‘common cold’ something we know has been infecting humans for Millenia. Perhaps ‘white’ people whom typically descend from Europeans of colder climate have genetics carrying forward better immuno response to viruses in this class, perhaps ‘black’ people typically descended from warmer Africa have not evolved the same response to this class of virus.

I do not think it’s ‘racist’ to point out that one ethnic group seems more in danger than others. Nor is it ‘racist’ to suggest that different ethnic groups might have different genetically given traits - it’s pretty clear that ‘blacks’ are typically black and ‘whites’ are typically white for, well not to put too fine a point on it, but exactly that reason - different genetics...

The comparison with lactose intolerance is quite valid, we know it’s genetic, and we know it is present or missing with quite clear differences observable between varying ethnic groups. Strictly for your benefit Michael, the over representation of ‘blacks and asians’ in lactose intolerant people is due to them being ‘genetically correct’ and us descendants of ‘white Europeans’ being the genetically defective.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

So its likely the native and African heritage populations have less natural resistance to it.
Ahh, good ol' white supremacy.

More likely the native and African heritage populations generally work in occupations that make it more difficult to adhere to social distancing guidelines.

Mr P, you sound like the bigots opposed to the Tuskagee Airmen back in WWII. Making assumptions that they were more predisposed to blacking out under high G-forces because of their naturally flat noses which could ultimately restrict oxygen flow to the brain. In fact they were superior pilots in almost every sense.

Please stop making stuff up.
DirtyBallast
In regard to African native nations and lactose intolerance, I believe those that herd cattle, and obviously drink milk, are lactose tolerant, whilst the hunters and gathers, such as the Kalahari Bushman, are very intolerant. I watched a documentary on research into effectiveness of western medicines on non-western races and their research came up with the above conclusion in regard to Africa.

I do not like the term, genetic intolerance, as that has connotations of racism and nazism. I more prefer "difference caused by environmental conditions", which is actually the case in the example I alluded to.

Due to this research control groups consist of wider racial groups to ensure the efficacy of medicines over the wider population.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Sorry, not Michael above, but DirtyBallast.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
So its likely the native and African heritage populations have less natural resistance to it.
Ahh, good ol' white supremacy.

More likely the native and African heritage populations generally work in occupations that make it more difficult to adhere to social distancing guidelines.

Mr P, you sound like the bigots opposed to the Tuskagee Airmen back in WWII. Making assumptions that they were more predisposed to blacking out under high G-forces because of their naturally flat noses which could ultimately restrict oxygen flow to the brain. In fact they were superior pilots in almost every sense.

Please stop making stuff up.
I do not like the term, genetic intolerance, as that has connotations of racism and nazism.
nswtrains
Exactly.

There was a clear choice made by Shane to suggest that the natural resistance to contracting the virus depended on ethnicity, as if it was the only factor. If it's not the only factor, why make it exclusive?

The inference was that black people get the virus easier because they are black. It's the first and only thing he thought of.

Are Afghans the same? In case anyone missed it a recent random survey of 500 people in Kabul resulted in a third of them testing positive. Is it because they are Afghans? And what about the lily-white Swedes? How good is their superior natural Caucasian resistance?
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Exactly.

There was a clear choice made by Shane to suggest that the natural resistance to contracting the virus depended on ethnicity, as if it was the only factor. If it's not the only factor, why make it exclusive?

The inference was that black people get the virus easier because they are black. It's the first and only thing he thought of.

Are Afghans the same? In case anyone missed it a recent random survey of 500 people in Kabul resulted in a third of them testing positive. Is it because they are Afghans? And what about the lily-white Swedes? How good is their superior natural Caucasian resistance?
DirtyBallast
No, there was no intention or inference what so ever that I indicated nor implied that it was "the only factor". Please stop making $hit up and twisting statements into racist debate to suit your own twisted agenda.

"inference was that black people get the virus easier because they are black. It's the first and only thing he thought of."
Only in your twisted racist mind is this true.

With reference to your comment regarding the Swedes, do you actually read what you type?

"And what about the lily-white Swedes? How good is their superior natural Caucasian resistance?"

Seriously, the only person in this forum that has made any racist comment in any way shape or form in the last few pages is you. You know perfectly well why Sweden is so high and its got nothing to do with skin colour and if you genuinely believe this maybe spend some time on Sweden demographics and CR infections before responding.

Do the world a favor and drop your racist attitude!
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
Dear Shane,

Firstly for the record I thought Aaron's post up the page was spot on. It talked of death rates amongst African Americans once they contracted the virus, but didn't try to guess or assume or make lame excuses why they got it in the first place. There is absolutely nothing wrong with discussing race, but there is something fundamentally wrong with using it as an excuse.

I made a mistake by writing superior natural Caucasian resistance instead of 'superior natural Caucasian resistance' to highlight your attitude of white skin better at warding off the virus, black skin not quite as good. You didn't get it; your loss. Of course I am fully versed on the situation in Sweden and used their situation, again to highlight, that race/ethnicity etc. have little to no bearing - but again, your post that I originally replied to was all about race/ethnicity.

Going back to your original reply where you complained about my methodology. You wanted me to ask you in reply "Have you considered" etc, but I put it to you, why didn't YOU consider the alternatives in the first place? You left yourself open Shane. Don't blame me for calling you out. I provided the alternatives that you craved straight up and you've felt annoyed ever since.

Finally, you know EXACTLY what the Mr P reference means. Wink
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Ah, the Mr P reference has me baffled.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

I am not sure that the number of cases in African Americans are disproportionate, they may well be, and that may we’ll be occupational, I don’t know.

What I do know though, is that once contracted African Americans are at DOUBLE the risk of dying from contracting the virus than ‘white’ Americans - that is likely not occupational. One hypothesis (tenuous though it may be) might be that as Covid-19 is in the same class of viruses as the ‘common cold’ something we know has been infecting humans for Millenia. Perhaps ‘white’ people whom typically descend from Europeans of colder climate have genetics carrying forward better immuno response to viruses in this class, perhaps ‘black’ people typically descended from warmer Africa have not evolved the same response to this class of virus.

I do not think it’s ‘racist’ to point out that one ethnic group seems more in danger than others. Nor is it ‘racist’ to suggest that different ethnic groups might have different genetically given traits - it’s pretty clear that ‘blacks’ are typically black and ‘whites’ are typically white for, well not to put too fine a point on it, but exactly that reason - different genetics...
Aaron
It could also be the case that the standard of medical care provided has at least some input into the different death rates for different groups within the USA. On a macro scale, African-Americans have lower quality primary healthcare than the White population (usually referred to as “Non-Hispanic White population” when doing A/B comparisons of health stats) which means that they are more likely to have preexisting chronic conditions that increase their risk of dying from COVID-19.

And then once they have contracted COVID-19 they have the disadvantage of poorer access to quality medical care. Countries where the medical system has been overwhelmed (USA, UK etc) are seeing higher death rates than countries where it is not (Australia, South Korea etc) which would logically be an effect that would scale down to be repeated in places like the USA where different groups receive different access to quality medical care.

It could also be a combination of multiple factors, i.e. potential genetic factors + more preexisting conditions + poorer treatment = higher death rate.

It would be interesting to see relative figures for countries like Canada, UK, France etc (which all have very different health systems to the USA) to see if their populations of African ancestry have the same relative problems as African-Americans.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
I must be the original old curmudgeon, but the Gummint gets from me exactly what is required by law, and not one skerrick more.
When we have politicians who can behave honestly, and give proper answers to questions, my attitude may change. They don't trust me to know what they're doing; I don't trust them, so they can whistle for the app. Simples.
  KRviator Moderator

Location: Up the front
I must be the original old curmudgeon, but the Gummint gets from me exactly what is required by law, and not one skerrick more.
When we have politicians who can behave honestly, and give proper answers to questions, my attitude may change. They don't trust me to know what they're doing; I don't trust them, so they can whistle for the app. Simples.
Valvegear
Couldn't agree more. They've proven time and time again they can't be trusted, so they get nothing beyond the bare minimum from me.

Look at yesterdays headlines, a serving Police officer has been arrested for not only taking photos, but leaking them showing Dean Laidley being interviewed. Granted, it is not "the Government" but he is an employee thereof, and would as much understanding of Privacy policies & rules as a health worker managing the COVIDSafe app data, yet he did it anyway!

It doesn't inspire much confidence.

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