Social Distancing On Public Transport

 
  scadam Station Staff

So we have a policy from our leaders that they admit they cannot and will not enforce.

Do we feel safer?
theanimal
I think it's a step in the right direction. It provides a target so that they can monitor and manage the risk of transmission on public transport. Government policy re coronavirus has been largely geared towards encouraging people to "do the right thing" and seek alternative means of travel where possible. They know it's not socially acceptable to (a) stop public transport completely, or (b) enforce these limits right now when this may leave people stranded at stations/stops/wharves for hours, making them late for work or school or going home. Until they can review the data and increase services where necessary (if at all possible) there isn't much else they can really do. If nothing else, the stickers that mark the "approved" seats on the bus are great for helping people to space out appropriately when it isn't over capacity.

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  route14 Chief Commissioner

I agree.  While drivers have no law-enforcement authority, the new restrictions should be regarded as an indicative figure as to when and where to deploy stand-by buses/trams/trains where practical.
  NSWGR8022 Assistant Commissioner

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech
I am still skeptical on how this will be policed unless transit officers are intending to work the trains more and the platforms and barriers less?
  s3_gunzel Not a gunzel developer

Location: Western Sydney, AU
I am still skeptical on how this will be policed unless transit officers are intending to work the trains more and the platforms and barriers less?
NSWGR8022
It won't be - Public Transport is apparently exempt.
  NSWGR8022 Assistant Commissioner

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech
I am still skeptical on how this will be policed unless transit officers are intending to work the trains more and the platforms and barriers less?
It won't be - Public Transport is apparently exempt.
s3_gunzel

Stickers are being placed onto the seats and show people where to sit and there are limits per carriage.
  s3_gunzel Not a gunzel developer

Location: Western Sydney, AU
I am still skeptical on how this will be policed unless transit officers are intending to work the trains more and the platforms and barriers less?
It won't be - Public Transport is apparently exempt.

Stickers are being placed onto the seats and show people where to sit and there are limits per carriage.
NSWGR8022
Soft limits.
  NSWGR8022 Assistant Commissioner

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech
Wondering too if governments can control the use of the train network for example by preventing people from entering the network at the barriers if there are already x amount of people on the system. Could be a good way manage the overall system load when it comes to passenger numbers.
  AheadMatthewawsome Junior Train Controller

Location: Opening Train Lines
This is even more dangerous than the L1 will ever be! You need to enforce it so there is no 2nd wave! This is one of the more stupidest things that Mrs Glasses has ever done!
  s3_gunzel Not a gunzel developer

Location: Western Sydney, AU
This is even more dangerous than the L1 will ever be! You need to enforce it so there is no 2nd wave! This is one of the more stupidest things that Mrs Glasses has ever done!
"AheadMatthewawsome"

Remind me again, how old are you? Remember in the early 2000s when the Inner West Light Rail wasn't so busy?

more stupidest

Yeah, right. So you'd rather we just sat at home and did bugger all for the next three years right? Cool. Duly noted.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

... You need to enforce it so there is no 2nd wave! ...

Yeah, right. So you'd rather we just sat at home and did bugger all for the next three years right? Cool. Duly noted.
s3_gunzel

If there is a second or third wave, you could very well be locked in your home for the next three years.
  AheadMatthewawsome Junior Train Controller

Location: Opening Train Lines
This is even more dangerous than the L1 will ever be! You need to enforce it so there is no 2nd wave! This is one of the more stupidest things that Mrs Glasses has ever done!

Remind me again, how old are you? Remember in the early 2000s when the Inner West Light Rail wasn't so busy?
s3_gunzel
I remember when I was 5 years old, back in 2012 when the light rail was not too busy. Then when the Monorail closed. Everybody would take the light rail to Darling Harbor. Nowadays, you are crushed like sardines with no more room in there! And then the trams are delayed by over 3 minutes, with trams every 9 minutes. They become that packed, that fast! They need to have more tram services between Wentworth Park and Central. With possibly a 3rd track so all trams can fit in there. What causes the most delays on the network is, the traffic lights at the loop at Central, and the overcapacity of trams!
  DCook Train Controller

Location: The standard state
This is even more dangerous than the L1 will ever be! You need to enforce it so there is no 2nd wave! This is one of the more stupidest things that Mrs Glasses has ever done!

Remind me again, how old are you? Remember in the early 2000s when the Inner West Light Rail wasn't so busy?
I remember when I was 5 years old, back in 2012 when the light rail was not too busy. Then when the Monorail closed. Everybody would take the light rail to Darling Harbor. Nowadays, you are crushed like sardines with no more room in there! And then the trams are delayed by over 3 minutes, with trams every 9 minutes. They become that packed, that fast! They need to have more tram services between Wentworth Park and Central. With possibly a 3rd track so all trams can fit in there. What causes the most delays on the network is, the traffic lights at the loop at Central, and the overcapacity of trams!
AheadMatthewawsome
I do not think the monorail is wholly to blame, I think a big reason for the increased crowding was the opening of the Dulwich Hill to Lillyfield extension which allowed more public transport to areas previously ignored
  s3_gunzel Not a gunzel developer

Location: Western Sydney, AU
Ok, Matthew. When you work out where you plan to put this third track, then come up with some costings, and then become the transport minister, I might listen to your rants with some degree of belief something might happen with them.
  DCook Train Controller

Location: The standard state
Putting a third track between Wentworth Park and Central is a good idea in theory, but not in practice

The people of the CBD are annoyed enough about all the road closures that happened for the L2 and L3, they will be even more annoyed if it happens again

One thing commonly ignored is that the bridge at Central that makes up the loop was never designed for the modern heavy steel trams, it was designed for the smaller wooden ones

Before the light rail opened in 1997 major work had to be done on the bridge in order to prevent cracking, then again before the Urbos 2s and 3s were introduced in 2014

If the Variotrams were still in service today the capacity for the network would be much higher

Also, most stations will have to be re-organised, in some cases rebuilt, and all the road bridges would need to be changed
  scadam Station Staff

Putting a third track between Wentworth Park and Central is a good idea in theory, but not in practice.
DCook

Extending the platforms and buying more tram cars is far more feasible and would cost a fraction of a third track.

In an ideal world, I think a better plan would be to create a new alignment branching at Rozelle Bay and heading towards the city via the new Bays Precinct, over the Glebe Island Bridge, passing through Pyrmont along Miller and Union Streets, then over the Pyrmont Bridge. Inbound track to turn left onto Sussex then right onto King, proceeding all the way up to Queens Square. Outbound track returns to Pyrmont Bridge via St James Rd and Market Street to complete the loop.

Would likely divert a significant chunk of passengers away from the existing alignment and provide a faster connection with the city centre. But I'll stop dreaming and also say that this thread has gone way off-topic.

Back to physical distancing:

Outbound bus passenger numbers in Sydney CBD for the PM peak have been increasing steadily over the last 3 weeks. I would estimate that around 15-25% of buses are now going over their new soft "limit" but this is almost always the result of uneven loading (for example, one bus will leave with 20 people, and another will follow right behind with less than 5 people).

This varies depending on the corridor but also the individual routes within each corridor. On some days the B-Line buses from Wynyard have been at or over 25 people 80+% of the time, whilst the other Region 8 (Military Road / Northern Beaches) express commuter buses leave practically empty. So right now there is probably enough bus capacity to enforce the new limits, but this may change over the coming weeks as more people return to work.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

Yes, Urbo are cheap rubbish.  I enjoyed checking out 2107 at the museum but I would appreciate more if it was in commercial traffic.
  AheadMatthewawsome Junior Train Controller

Location: Opening Train Lines


One thing commonly ignored is that the bridge at Central that makes up the loop was never designed for the modern heavy steel trams, it was designed for the smaller wooden ones

Before the light rail opened in 1997 major work had to be done on the bridge in order to prevent cracking, then again before the Urbos 2s and 3s were introduced in 2014

If the Variotrams were still in service today the capacity for the network would be much higher
DCook
That actually sounds like a much better idea than going and putting in a 3rd track! We can upgrade the bridge at Central for Urbos 3's, and also for the Citadis 305 in the future when they go on the L1. That might fix up about 55% of the delays!
  route14 Chief Commissioner

Then they'll need to convert railway points to tramway points.
  s3_gunzel Not a gunzel developer

Location: Western Sydney, AU
That actually sounds like a much better idea than going and putting in a 3rd track! We can upgrade the bridge at Central for Urbos 3's, and also for the Citadis 305 in the future when they go on the L1. That might fix up about 55% of the delays!
"AheadMatthewawsome"


There's likely a heritage listing to contend with there.
  DCook Train Controller

Location: The standard state
That actually sounds like a much better idea than going and putting in a 3rd track! We can upgrade the bridge at Central for Urbos 3's, and also for the Citadis 305 in the future when they go on the L1. That might fix up about 55% of the delays!
The L2 line was originally going to run on the bridge and the bridge would be upgraded to have 2 tracks, the current side for the L1 and the other (new) side for the L2 in order to have all the light rail starting at one place
That plan was ditched early on as it was found that the bridge would not be able to support the combined weight of an Urbos 3 and a Citadas on one side, hence why the L2 is offset from the bridge
It is not a problem with the bridge itself but a problem with the bases of the piers
The pier problems originated in the mid 1970s when the PTC decided to use Atlantean double decker buses on the bridge in the time when the tram area was used as a bus terminal
The Atlantean buses were way over the limits that the bridge has, heavier that a Citadas and Urbos, and in doing so caused structural damage to almost every part
It was originally thought that it was just the deck that had been damaged but on closer inspection during work in 2014 problems in the piers were found, the bridge still has about the same strength that it did when built as the pier damage was not extensive but it will prevent the use of anything heavier than an Urbos 3

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