Aussie Prime Ministers in history

 
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Excellent letter in today's Melbourne Age from a gentleman who has read right through Malcolm Turnbull's magnum opus "A Bigger Picture".
He writes that, " . . . the affair between Malcolm Turnbull and Malcolm Turnbull has to be one of the greatest love stories in Australian political life."
I like his style.
Valvegear
Hawkie was worse. Details of the settlement between his daughter (Ros Dillon) and Hawke's widow (Blanche) were published yesterday and it's pretty obvious that Dear Leader wasn't exactly the model father. From The Age:

Ms Dillon said in documents that she was assaulted by Mr Landeryou in about 1983, told her father what happened, and told him she wanted to go to the police.

Mr Hawke is said to have responded, "You can't, I can't have any controversies right now. I'm sorry but I am challenging for the leadership of the Labor party. You can't go to the police."

Ms Dillon said her father asked her to let the matter go, so she did. She added that she was "haunted" by what happened to her.

What a stand-up bloke.

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  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Turnball, wanted PM on his CV.

Party was irrelevant.
See VG’s post above, the love affair.
michaelgm
Like all narcissists he wanted the adulation and attention of being Prime Minister - but didn't really have a plan when he got there other than to try and shoe-horn the nation into this stupid green-energy plan that he himself was a financial beneficiary of.

The tens of billions to be spent on the Snowy River pumped hydro scheme won't generate a single extra watt of electricity for the eastern seaboard - it's to try and make up for the fact that wind and solar energy are both incredibly unreliable sources of power and don't generate energy at the times that the grid needs them.

As it turns out they should have been more vigilant about the possibility of a pandemic... but for some reason a non-existent carbon dioxide monster was their priority.
  SAR520SMBH Train Controller

And just like that, as usual, Don pops in and writes more drivel about something that has absolutely nothing to do with the thread?
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Hawkie was worse. Details of the settlement between his daughter (Ros Dillon) and Hawke's widow (Blanche) were published yesterday and it's pretty obvious that Dear Leader wasn't exactly the model father. . .
Dear old Don; just can't help himself. We're not comparing fatherhoods. What on earth do the sins of Bob Hawke have to do with Turnbull's book? Answer - absolutely nothing, but Don, in his desperation to slag Hawke off at any price, pops it in here. Don; if you want to piddle on Hawke from a great height, start a thread about him. This one's about Turnbull and his book.
Valvegear
You opened a thread on Prime Ministers and seriously expected me to not show up? And yeah if you're talking about narcissist PM's then there's really only a few outstanding ones that come to mind. And then the news yesterday about the Hawke estate settling with his daughter - and what that's off limits because it's ONLY about Malcolm Turnbull?

As I said before, I gave all you 'Hawkie the Great' swooners a whole year of grace before I so much as mentioned him... and I should get a medal for that alone Wink
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

@Valvegear & @SAR520SMBH - Don't feed the troll.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Hawkie was worse. Details of the settlement between his daughter (Ros Dillon) and Hawke's widow (Blanche) were published yesterday and it's pretty obvious that Dear Leader wasn't exactly the model father. From The Age:

Ms Dillon said in documents that she was assaulted by Mr Landeryou in about 1983, told her father what happened, and told him she wanted to go to the police.

Mr Hawke is said to have responded, "You can't, I can't have any controversies right now. I'm sorry but I am challenging for the leadership of the Labor party. You can't go to the police."

Ms Dillon said her father asked her to let the matter go, so she did. She added that she was "haunted" by what happened to her.
don_dunstan
Actually the section about Hawke's conversation with his daughter was published very shortly after his death. The settlement is the new addition. It's said that you need a big ego to stand for high office, and our Bob qualified for that with honours. He certainly didn't put family first.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
@Valvegear & @SAR520SMBH - Don't feed the troll.
justapassenger
I'M a troll? Have a look in the mirror - you're here to shill for the Peregrine Group.

I notice that you had no comment on the fact that they've been accused of $70-odd million wage theft or the fact that they're trying to use their influence to get a helipad constructed in the middle of a residential area.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Who split this thread? Spelling and grammar are important in a title.

Anyway, for me, Hawke’s legacy is still holding the record for downing a beer in a time that I can’t beat even after 20 odd years of fairly solid effort training.

We’re talking about everything from emptying the Austral and Crown and Anchor on Engineering pub crawls, to me getting through a couple 1140ml jugs of Pale during a 50 minute second year vector calculus tutorial.

Alas, these days yard glasses are hard to come by and I just cannot do warm, flat beer.
  Big J Deputy Commissioner

Location: In Paradise
Who split this thread? Spelling and grammar are important in a title.
Aaron
Totally agree. Aren't the Hawks, Hawthorn in the AFL.

I didn't realsie that this is a thread about Bob Hawke.

Come on Mods, you can do better.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
I see we have a serial reporter coming through again...
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Who split this thread? Spelling and grammar are important in a title.
Totally agree. Aren't the Hawks, Hawthorn in the AFL.

I didn't realsie that this is a thread about Bob Hawke.

Come on Mods, you can do better.
Big J
Who reported this post and why? It's a perfectly reasonable question.

Incidentally I'm not going to be censored about Hawkie... I'm perfectly allowed to reflect on his legacy as Prime Minister and his family stuff - that's been in the media recently as we've been discussing.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
Who reported this post and why? It's a perfectly reasonable question.

Incidentally I'm not going to be censored about Hawkie... I'm perfectly allowed to reflect on... his family stuff -
don_dunstan
Just like, from now on, we're allowed to talk about yours.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Who reported this post and why? It's a perfectly reasonable question.

Incidentally I'm not going to be censored about Hawkie... I'm perfectly allowed to reflect on... his family stuff -
Just like, from now on, we're allowed to talk about yours.
DirtyBallast
Sure go right ahead, what do I care - in fact let me start first. Howard was a do-nothing who dolled out welfare for the middle class, made the dreadful decision to give out $5,000 cash for every baby born (hun, let's start workin' on that plasma telly) and unilaterally tripled long-term migration without saying a word to anyone.

Your turn.
  Big J Deputy Commissioner

Location: In Paradise
Who split this thread? Spelling and grammar are important in a title.
Totally agree. Aren't the Hawks, Hawthorn in the AFL.

I didn't realsie that this is a thread about Bob Hawke.

Come on Mods, you can do better.
Who reported this post and why? It's a perfectly reasonable question.

Incidentally I'm not going to be censored about Hawkie... I'm perfectly allowed to reflect on his legacy as Prime Minister and his family stuff - that's been in the media recently as we've been discussing.
don_dunstan
Umm, I didn't report this.

I am commenting on the thread title doesn't reflect the content or intention of the thread.

As far as I am concerned you can comment as much as you want on "Hawkie". Up to us all, on how we respond.

For me, I won't comment on this, Turnbull, Abbott or anyone else. I use to and I realise that the purpose for me to be here is about rail. I haven't signed up to join a political forum and will refrain from these discussions.

This is the lounge and you are entitled to state whatever you think here. But my point was the thread misleading title as it seem to be about Hawthorn Hawks.

Good luck in convincing people, but somehow I think whatever you say here will equally have nil influence on how others will think and vice versa. We are all entitled to a political view and I doubt people will move from their current political view, by posts in a rail forum.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Who split this thread? Spelling and grammar are important in a title.
Totally agree. Aren't the Hawks, Hawthorn in the AFL.

I didn't realsie that this is a thread about Bob Hawke.

Come on Mods, you can do better.
Who reported this post and why? It's a perfectly reasonable question.

Incidentally I'm not going to be censored about Hawkie... I'm perfectly allowed to reflect on his legacy as Prime Minister and his family stuff - that's been in the media recently as we've been discussing.
Umm, I didn't report this.
Big J
No, you didn't report your comment - someone else did. And as a consequence it got 'hidden'.

But there was absolutely nothing controversial or offensive about it - so why did someone decide to 'report' it?
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Final title was chosen by the OP.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
It's not like this should be a controversial topic at all - I have outstanding negative views of all Prime Ministers back to Menzies and the road to ruin for our once high economic participation.

Menzies was positively a working class blue collar warrior with socialist ideas like the PBS - home ownership soared to over 70% in most capital cities and the majority of Australians were completely enfranchised to the Aussie dream of your own bit of the nation. It was unheard of to try and bust the cartel-like behavior of the international drug conglomerates in the fifties and yet that's what Menzies did for the average Aussie. Menzies and his deputy Black Jack McEwan ensured worker prosperity and participation more than any subsequent Labor administration, almost all of which left poorer Aussies worse off.

The other thing I wanted to kick in there was that the Labor Party ruined representation for blue collar people through the Accord Mk I & II - union memeber-ship had begun its terminal collapse by the time Keating left office (now less than ten percent for private sector workers) and compulsory super made the very poorest even worse off while placating the union movement with the promise of their own default funds management pool. Howard the equal-Thatcherite had nothing left to do except privatise Telstra and start dolling out welfare to anyone prepared to vote for him. We never had any choice in this country about the privatisation and off-shoring off many of our public goods such as full-employment in reasonable jobs and the robbing of the public through high power and gas prices. Governments at all levels have failed in that regard.

Anyway I'll leave it for other people to opine - Valvegear among others I'm pretty sure would have an opinion.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
Who reported this post and why? It's a perfectly reasonable question.

Incidentally I'm not going to be censored about Hawkie... I'm perfectly allowed to reflect on... his family stuff -
Just like, from now on, we're allowed to talk about yours.
Sure go right ahead, what do I care - in fact let me start first. Howard was a do-nothing who dolled out welfare for the middle class, made the dreadful decision to give out $5,000 cash for every baby born (hun, let's start workin' on that plasma telly) and unilaterally tripled long-term migration without saying a word to anyone.

Your turn.
don_dunstan
What I meant was, if I made up some complete BS about your family stuff like Don lives in his mum's basement, but watches her in the shower. Also, he never really got over his meth addiction it is no different to unfounded gossip loosely based on what might be printed, officially or not, about someone of interest.

Hawke is dead and cannot defend gossip about him, as if he cared either. Surely though gossiping about family stuff is crossing the line, whoever it is?
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Hawke is dead and cannot defend gossip about him, as if he cared either. Surely though gossiping about family stuff is crossing the line, whoever it is?
DirtyBallast
It's hardly gossip. It was in the public domain just after Hawke died, and has resurfaced because a settlement has been reached. And, it wasn't only family stuff; it was interwoven with political stuff. It's the penalty of fame.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Don mentioned Menzies.

Menzies could be the luckiest Prime Minister Australia has ever had. He had been largely ineffective before the Second World War, and during the war and in its immediate aftermath, he had to face Curtin and then Chifley. Both had been widely admired for their leadership in the war years.

However, in the 1949 Federal election, Menzies was given two free kicks right in front of goal, both courtesy of the Labor Party. The first was when Menzies promised to abolish all food and commodity rationing which had continued after the war, and Chifley would not match this. The second was Chifley’s determination to nationalise the banks. Naturally, this caused a bloodsome uproar with the banks mounting a massive “No” campaign. Menzies, of course went right along with this and helped the banks and his own prospects by telling voters of the terrible consequences if it did happen; some of which may even have been true. The election was a landslide win for the Coalition.

As if that wasn’t enough, the ALP came up with more free kicks. One, which had ramifications for at least the next twenty years, was the great Labor Party Split of 1955. Enough has been written about this and there’s no point in going through it here.
The major result was the formation of the Democratic Labor Party which succeeded in getting a huge amount of the Roman Catholic vote, aided by people like Melbourne Archbishop Daniel Mannix who said from the pulpit that the ALP should be cast aside. The vast majority of preferences from the DLP went to the Coalition, so that the DLP was often referred to as the Deputy Liberal Party. Menzies, of course, went along happily with this since it helped him the kick the “Commo” can which he did effectively.

The next free kick was the ALP Leadership. Menzies comfortably disposed of Bert Evatt three times and Arthur Calwell twice. Evatt was a brilliant scholar but politically inept, and Calwell was just completely outclassed. Menzies, a superb orator and quick thinker, played them both off a break.

Meanwhile, Menzies carefully got rid of the members of his own party who might have challenged him. He disposed of Richard Casey, Percy Spender and Garfield Barwick, and effectively anointed Harold Holt as his successor. In his time, the economy was sound, unemployment very low, and Australia rode comfortably along on the sheep’s back. Menzies had this in his favour, and was never seriously challenged until he retired.
  apw5910 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Location: Location.
Don mentioned Menzies.

However, in the 1949 Federal election, Menzies was given two free kicks right in front of goal, both courtesy of the Labor Party. The first was when Menzies promised to abolish all food and commodity rationing which had continued after the war, and Chifley would not match this.
Valvegear
I've always wondered about this. Menzies was an out-and-out Anglophile, and the rationing existed to help Britain after the war. Did he effectively shaft them to get elected?


Menzies, a superb orator and quick thinker, played them both off a break.
Valvegear

At a Liberal rally:

Heckler: "Tell us all you know Bob. Won't take long!

Menzies: "I'll do better than that: I'll tell us all we both know. Won't take any longer."
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
What I meant was, if I made up some complete BS about your family stuff like Don lives in his mum's basement, but watches her in the shower. Also, he never really got over his meth addiction it is no different to unfounded gossip loosely based on what might be printed, officially or not, about someone of interest.

Hawke is dead and cannot defend gossip about him, as if he cared either. Surely though gossiping about family stuff is crossing the line, whoever it is?
DirtyBallast
Nah sorry, don't buy that - he was Prime Minister of Australia for eight years. When you enter politics the reality is that you lose your ability to have a completely private family life - that's just part and parcel of what that job is.

How Bob did as a father and a family man is quite relevant in all this - he used his family relentlessly as props while he was massaging the public as the ACTU head and then later on the member for Willis. He was named Father of the Year in 1971 so he certainly wasn't averse to standing up and pretending to be a family man and a great dad - and the fact that all this stuff came out later about what a selfish career-driven ego maniac he actually was is therefore really quite relevant to the overall picture we have of the man and his legacy.

There's plenty more 'gossip' about Hawke's family that I haven't mentioned here, not the least of which is the incredible bitterness and legal threats towards Blanche d'Alpuget by Hawke's grandchildren after she sold off much of his Prime Ministerial souvenirs at a Sydney auction house last year.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
At a Liberal rally:

Heckler: "Tell us all you know Bob. Won't take long!

Menzies: "I'll do better than that: I'll tell us all we both know. Won't take any longer."
apw5910

Two more:-

Heckler: "What are you going to do about 'ousing?"   Menzies: "Put an "h" in front of it."
and
Heckler: "I wouldn't vote for you if you was the Angel Gabriel."  Menzies: "If I were the Angel Gabriel sir, you would not be in my constituency."
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
...

However, in the 1949 Federal election, Menzies was given two free kicks right in front of goal, both courtesy of the Labor Party. The first was when Menzies promised to abolish all food and commodity rationing which had continued after the war, and Chifley would not match this. The second was Chifley’s determination to nationalise the banks. Naturally, this caused a bloodsome uproar with the banks mounting a massive “No” campaign. Menzies, of course went right along with this and helped the banks and his own prospects by telling voters of the terrible consequences if it did happen; some of which may even have been true. The election was a landslide win for the Coalition.

...
Valvegear
Not a bad summary of those immediate post-war years.

What we forget is that there were a lot of things that the Labor and Liberal Parties actually had shared consensus on; it was just that they differed in how they went about it. Menzies continued with the Labor policy of giving industry loans and protectionism to industry because both sides were terrified of the prospect of mass unemployed experienced pre-war. That policy of full employment continued through to Whitlam who somewhat ironically started dismantling the tariff wall that had made Australia's protected workers among the wealthiest in the world.

It's also worth emphasising that Menzies correctly captured the zeitgeist as you've said - he understood the fundamental desires and aspirations of ordinary Australians a lot more than Howard could ever have. His actions in how prosperous and equal our society was are worth remembering - sure it took Whitlam to progress lots of desperately needed social reforms particularly the treatment of Aboriginal Australians but all the same we had extremely unparalleled opportunity in this country that could be accessed by people at all levels of society - especially in terms of the right to a stable and reasonably paid job.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Menzies could be the luckiest Prime Minister Australia has ever had. He had been largely ineffective before the Second World War, and during the war and in its immediate aftermath, he had to face Curtin and then Chifley. Both had been widely admired for their leadership in the war years.
Valvegear
Well said VG. JC was in my opinion our greatest PM. I don't agree with everything that he stood for which makes him even more admirable in my eyes. (not that I was around back then to have actually seen him in action)

With the possible exception of Chifley it has been pretty much all downhill from there. As a young ALP member at the time I liked Hawke but the more I read about him over the years the less I liked the man. I loved Keating for his wit and oratory skills but at the end of the day they are just all products of the party machines that have taken over politics.

And good ol' Mal Fraser, what a rabid old Lefty he turned out to be eh! Laughing

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