Riots in Minnesota

 
  KRviator Moderator

Location: Up the front
Attacking an Australia film crew during a live broadcast is not the smartest thing to do and highlights the attitude of the police.
freightgate
Oh come on, they just wanted to get in on the act same as their brothers-in-arms across the country.... A Reuters crew was deliberately targeted as was a WAVE3 crew on a live cross and these female civilians were deliberately shot at standing on their own veranda.


These kinds of images are going viral around the world and what the fuzz need to realise is they have brought these riots upon themselves, with their treatment of minorities over the years. Whether it is through inadequate screening of recruits, inadequate training of new-hires or inadequate ongoing supervision of serving officers, these attacks are unwarranted and in many cases illegal in their own right, and if they are going it with full knowledge they are being recorded, the question must be asked What happens when there are no cameras rolling...?

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  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
I feel sorry for the hundreds of thousands of police officers who put their life on the line every day, who are paid a poor salary, but love their job and keep at it because they see the social value in it, because they prefer to get out and do something positive rather than sit at home making judgements from a sofa. They practice what they preach and make an effort, take risks that none of the 'woke' social commentators here would dare do. Yet now, these silent hero's will be judged, abused, called fascos and whatnot, because of the inexcusable behaviour of a few bad eggs. These same social commentators who accuse the police of 'Racialist Profiling' are more than happy to make blanket assumptions about any man or woman proud to wear the blue uniform.
billybaxter
In the US, 40% of police officers families experience domestic abuse. Oh in that country too, ones that shoot black men are nearly consistently rehired till some mass outrage occurs like this. Ones that blow the whistle on police corruption and brutality seem to be the ones that get fired. Yeh, feel sorry for them alright, the have had it coming for a while.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

... Because and don't choke on your wheaties Don, most black males do not commit crime.

This is not what is being argued - what you're arguing is that police intelligence is inherently racist. Nobody is arguing that all black men are crims.

And I'm not arguing with you on the point of 'stop and frisk' - the same thing goes on in NSW with the police searching random people in public with drug dogs. The majority are false positives so they probably shouldn't be doing that kind of search but what can you do - we live in a society where people get profiled and targeted by the police - the colour of the person often isn't relevant but the chances of them picking something up (young people in particular) is high. So that's why they do it.

The main factor in police brutality and shootings is POVERTY, Michael, I don't know how many times I have to repeat this but you still don't get it. The race of the person is incidental and varies from place to place but it's not always about race - but it is always - ALWAYS - about:
  • Socio-economic standing; if you're poor you are much more likely to be committing the sorts of crimes that police can most easily pick up (unlike white collar criminals)
  • Mental illness; that's a factor even greater than race is when you're talking about the police killing members of the public (as I cited earlier). I don't know if you were in Australia in the 1990's but the Victorian Police went though a stage of killing mentally ill people with monotonous regularity and in a subsequent Royal Commission they discovered that their training was teaching them to deal with those people as if they were potential hostile assailants when they're not - they're simply out of their right minds.
  • Aboriginal people in this country are still dying at a disproportionately higher rate than the rest of the population and it's a horrible, shameful fact. But in my opinion again to do with poverty and social disadvantage maybe even more so than race - again, we had a Royal Commission into that and the problem is not much better years later despite all the money spent.
  • There are times at which I'm sure some people (black and white) need to be incarcerated for their own good; I've worked in the justice system and lots of people are in prison simply because they're a danger to themselves, their families or the community. They NEED to be there at least temporarily. If police refuse to arrest people in that category on the sole basis that they're Aboriginal then that in itself is a problem.


All I'm getting at is that it's a million times more complicated than "police target black men because they're black men" and you don't have the capacity to accept that, your view is incredibly simplistic and frankly wrong.
No I am not arguing that Police Intelligence is racist. I have sold it in bold, it is not my fault you cannot read, Don. Stopping every black man is not Intelligence, it is Racial Profiling. They will stop black men in suits, Don. Contrary to what you think not all black men are stricken by poverty.

No Why people commit robberies is to do with Poverty. Police Brutality, profiling and Shooting innocent people is by some police is to do with RACE in the US. I have mentioned 6 people killed by the Police, at least 4 do not description you are trying to portray, the Poverty Stricken Black Male.

If Dr Greg Carr went to NY he would be picked up, its a race thing statistics borne that out and no amount of race whitewashing from you is going to change that fact. A worker in a shop states that an Afro American because they would have asked for a description tried to offload a counterfeit $20 and you send 4 police? Yeah it has nothing to do with Race, because I am sure if the person was white they would not send 4 police and you know it.

Why are you mentioning Indigenous people and the Vic Police?

Your explanation does not wash with me, Don

Michael
mejhammers1
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

I said nothing about what this fellow did or did not deserve. Once more Michael, whenever somebody tries to introduce a bit of reason into an emotionally charged subject, you see it through your pinko coloured glasses and chuck a foul mouthed dribbling hissy fit. No wonder you get shot down in flames so regularly by Mr. Pink Shorts. The sensible ones on your side of the fence, like Bingley, must cringe when they see you've tapped out a bit more of your turgid diatribe.
billybaxter
You did not have to explicitly, but it is clear you have absolutely no sympathy for Floyd. You would have to be blind and stupid not to see that. Yet another one who thinks they can say what they like without consequence. And get all butt hurt when it comes back to bite them.

May I remind you of what you said

Seems Floyd was a gentle giant, give you the shirt off his back, could have been a champion athlete, budding musician, so talented, everybody's friend and all round nice guy....and convicted armed robber trying to pass funny money. Now he'll be a hero, eulogised, a fighter for greater freedoms, a battler of evil cut down in his prime, his profile will be spray painted on walls with biblical quotes written in a Germanic font. And The Left will be outraged that normal society doesn't take their hero worship seriously.

And

And the article linked to above mentions the mother of his child, and his girlfriend as both being upset. So he was a philanderer too!

And

What did I say...? The 'funky, hip' vandalism, the glorification of the most banal behaviour considered normal by the silent majority, the downplaying of his violent past... Just a bit of armed robbery eh, as if we've all done it.

Those are your words, and you call my piece a foul mouthed diatribe? Yep a bit hard, tough. So, if you think that is reason then your education is seriously lacking and I would hate so see when you are unreasonable! George Floyd had a violent past which he served time for and rightly so. But lets character assassinate him in your defence of the Police at all costs, even when they are clearly in the wrong. Most Police are great, this murderous fool is not. You must be better than that. For the record, I hope Chauvin serves at least 20 Years!

But that does not matter to you because its about right and left, not about right and wrong. The sensible ones on your side of the fence! What a twit. I am seeing it from a humane perspective, a man was violently killed. Its not my fault you do not like what you see in the mirror, a callous individual who just does not give 2 $hits and views everything about my side and your side.

Again try using grey matter in your bonce you claim to have.



Michael
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
No I am not arguing that Police Intelligence is racist. I have sold it in bold, it is not my fault you cannot read, Don. Stopping every black man is not Intelligence, it is Racial Profiling. They will stop black men in suits, Don. Contrary to what you think not all black men are stricken by poverty.
mejhammers1
Are you purposely ignorant? I just told you I agree with you that stop and search is wrong - what more do you want?

Black men are more likely to be in poverty therefore they're more likely to be targeted. But you're so bloody-minded and convinced of the righteousness of your crusade that you can't admit this one fact in case it turns out to be a valid explanation.
No Why people commit robberies is to do with Poverty. Police Brutality, profiling and Shooting innocent people is by some police is to do with RACE in the US. I have mentioned 6 people killed by the Police, at least 4 do not description you are trying to portray, the Poverty Stricken Black Male.

If Dr Greg Carr went to NY he would be picked up, its a race thing statistics borne that out and no amount of race whitewashing from you is going to change that fact. A worker in a shop states that an Afro American because they would have asked for a description tried to offload a counterfeit $20 and you send 4 police? Yeah it has nothing to do with Race, because I am sure if the person was white they would not send 4 police and you know it.
mejhammers1
Because they'd never send four police for a situation involving a white man?
Why are you mentioning Indigenous people and the Vic Police?
mejhammers1
Because its relevant to the discussion of police and black people. Although there's a complicated relationship between crime, incarceration and deaths in custody so frankly wouldn't expect you to understand it.

Because you only go for simplistic explanations that are all-encapsulating. Right?
Why are you mentioning Indigenous people and the Vic Police?

Your explanation does not wash with me, Don

Michael
mejhammers1
I wouldn't expect it to, Michael. It involves having to consider a whole lot of different explanations for the same phenomenon and I sincerely think you're incapable of contemplating anything outside of your own view of the world.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
I have just had a terse verse (well sort of) with my partner as I was arguing the issue of an arrest of an aboriginal boy in Sydney is not the same issue as Black Americans being killed in violent ways by police.  She says they are linked. Who is right?
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

I have just had a terse verse (well sort of) with my partner as I was arguing the issue of an arrest of an aboriginal boy in Sydney is not the same issue as Black Americans being killed in violent ways by police.  She says they are linked. Who is right?
bevans
Difficult to answer, but for your sake, she is.
  KRviator Moderator

Location: Up the front
I have just had a terse verse (well sort of) with my partner as I was arguing the issue of an arrest of an aboriginal boy in Sydney is not the same issue as Black Americans being killed in violent ways by police.  She says they are linked. Who is right?
bevans
She is. Without a doubt.

That cop in Sydney should be charged with aggravated assault. The kid was mouthy, certainly, but they are taught at Goulburn to deescalate situations like that and not get drawn in to a physical confrontation. That cop did not. The kid was not resisting arrest, he was detained, and within a second or two the cop slammed him face-first into a concrete footpath. People have been killed in similar circumstances so what he was thinking I have no idea. What would be the reaction had he suffered a skull fracture or brain injury from hitting the concrete?

That kind of use-of-force is a disproportionate reaction and it is precisely that scenario that has been repeated so many times across Australia, and the US, that has led to these protests. Police acting outside their official powers (even if their Commissioner says "They are having a bad day", and what a cop-out that is...) generates resentment and hatred of the uniform. You only have to check Youtube for how many times officers act over and above the scope of their powers, and that is just what is caught on tape. I can't see any difference in our blokes actions vs the US cops, except the kid in Sydney didn't die.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Incredible footage of a train being looting moving on the line I think in the USA but the watermark is Russian I believe.  Could be a transcon BNSF service.

http://dams.omni.com.au:8080/razuna/raz2/dam/index.cfm?fa=c.sv&f=05D2B5FFB42E4F4BB59C07985AAB581B&v=o
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

No I am not arguing that Police Intelligence is racist. I have sold it in bold, it is not my fault you cannot read, Don. Stopping every black man is not Intelligence, it is Racial Profiling. They will stop black men in suits, Don. Contrary to what you think not all black men are stricken by poverty.
Are you purposely ignorant? I just told you I agree with you that stop and search is wrong - what more do you want?

Black men are more likely to be in poverty therefore they're more likely to be targeted. But you're so bloody-minded and convinced of the righteousness of your crusade that you can't admit this one fact in case it turns out to be a valid explanation.
No Why people commit robberies is to do with Poverty. Police Brutality, profiling and Shooting innocent people is by some police is to do with RACE in the US. I have mentioned 6 people killed by the Police, at least 4 do not description you are trying to portray, the Poverty Stricken Black Male.

If Dr Greg Carr went to NY he would be picked up, its a race thing statistics borne that out and no amount of race whitewashing from you is going to change that fact. A worker in a shop states that an Afro American because they would have asked for a description tried to offload a counterfeit $20 and you send 4 police? Yeah it has nothing to do with Race, because I am sure if the person was white they would not send 4 police and you know it.
Because they'd never send four police for a situation involving a white man?
Why are you mentioning Indigenous people and the Vic Police?
Because its relevant to the discussion of police and black people. Although there's a complicated relationship between crime, incarceration and deaths in custody so frankly wouldn't expect you to understand it.

Because you only go for simplistic explanations that are all-encapsulating. Right?
Why are you mentioning Indigenous people and the Vic Police?

Your explanation does not wash with me, Don

Michael
I wouldn't expect it to, Michael. It involves having to consider a whole lot of different explanations for the same phenomenon and I sincerely think you're incapable of contemplating anything outside of your own view of the world.
don_dunstan
Black men are more likely to be in poverty therefore they're more likely to be targeted.

Not disputing that Don, of course they will be more black criminals held by police because in NY because most crime is caused by black men. That is not in dispute and I can say that till I am blue in the face and you will never hear it.

But you should not just target black men just going about their daily business with no evidence of wrongdoing and that goes to back good community policing, knowing who is in crime and who is not. You should not stop a black male because solely because they are a black male, that is profiling. The stats prove that and some police will stop you even if you are going to the office. I am glad you finally agree with me that it is wrong. That has nothing to do with crime.

But, Don you cannot admit that Black people are mistreated by some in Police forces. I am not talking about crime and criminals, Don you are. I have stated to the back teeth that this is not about crims. I am not complaining about more black criminals getting shot or arrested Don. Get that through to you thick skull.

I am talking about innocent people getting killed and it happens far more often to innocent blacks than innocent whites.

You refuse to say that black people are treated unfairly because of endemic racism because of a minority of police. You just have to compare what happened with Justine Damond to Philando Castille in the same city a week apart.

But you will just say, yeah Poverty.

Michael
  Carnot Minister for Railways

So there's talk of a BLM protest in Melbourne this weekend.  Could be a quite an opportunity for enforcing Covid-19 fines for failing to keep to social distancing rules:
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Black men are more likely to be in poverty therefore they're more likely to be targeted.

Not disputing that Don, of course they will be more black criminals held by police because in NY because most crime is caused by black men. That is not in dispute and I can say that till I am blue in the face and you will never hear it.
mejhammers1
I have never, ever said "most crime is caused by black men".

And that's just the start of your entire, faulty argument, Michael. You're dishonest and frankly I can't be bothered with you any more.
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
Black men are more likely to be in poverty therefore they're more likely to be targeted.

Not disputing that Don, of course they will be more black criminals held by police because in NY because most crime is caused by black men. That is not in dispute and I can say that till I am blue in the face and you will never hear it.
I have never, ever said "most crime is caused by black men".

And that's just the start of your entire, faulty argument, Michael. You're dishonest and frankly I can't be bothered with you any more.
don_dunstan
Despite making up 13% of the population...
The Contradiction here is immense
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
Interesting read:   https://washingtonmonthly.com/2020/06/02/why-cops-who-didnt-want-to-be-held-accountable-were-threatened-by-obama/
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Black men are more likely to be in poverty therefore they're more likely to be targeted.

Not disputing that Don, of course they will be more black criminals held by police because in NY because most crime is caused by black men. That is not in dispute and I can say that till I am blue in the face and you will never hear it.
I have never, ever said "most crime is caused by black men".

And that's just the start of your entire, faulty argument, Michael. You're dishonest and frankly I can't be bothered with you any more.
Despite making up 13% of the population...
The Contradiction here is immense
Dangersdan707
Police target black men - that's true. But then black men are way over-represented in crime statistics because they're generally poor; it's not just about race. The comparison with the plight of Aboriginal Australians is completely valid.

Police target ANYONE that they either think could be committing a crime or that maybe they simply don't like - that story is as old as the police force is. NSW has its own version of 'stop and frisk' and its almost exclusively aimed at young people and there was that horrible case not long ago where the NSW cops decided to strip-search 15 year old kids without a guardian present and without any drugs being found. Discrimination? Yes, absolutely - really it's assault and those police should have lost their jobs over that.

I'm sure it would be a total surprise to Michael to find out that other minorities are also subjected to harassment and abuse by the police for no other reason than they don't like you.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Black and white owned businesses in Minneapolis burnt to the ground and many won't come back - this man's impassioned plea is heart-rending:

  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Black men are more likely to be in poverty therefore they're more likely to be targeted.

Not disputing that Don, of course they will be more black criminals held by police because in NY because most crime is caused by black men. That is not in dispute and I can say that till I am blue in the face and you will never hear it.
I have never, ever said "most crime is caused by black men".

And that's just the start of your entire, faulty argument, Michael. You're dishonest and frankly I can't be bothered with you any more.
Despite making up 13% of the population...
The Contradiction here is immense
Police target black men - that's true. But then black men are way over-represented in crime statistics because they're generally poor; it's not just about race. The comparison with the plight of Aboriginal Australians is completely valid.

Police target ANYONE that they either think could be committing a crime or that maybe they simply don't like - that story is as old as the police force is. NSW has its own version of 'stop and frisk' and its almost exclusively aimed at young people and there was that horrible case not long ago where the NSW cops decided to strip-search 15 year old kids without a guardian present and without any drugs being found. Discrimination? Yes, absolutely - really it's assault and those police should have lost their jobs over that.

I'm sure it would be a total surprise to Michael to find out that other minorities are also subjected to harassment and abuse by the police for no other reason than they don't like you.
don_dunstan
Most crimes caused by black people

My bad, clumsy wording, but me dishonest, really Don?

I'm sure it would be a total surprise to Michael to find out that other minorities are also subjected to harassment and abuse by the police for no other reason than they don't like you.

No, no surprise. Yes other minorities are subject to Discrimination, I know that. And it is a disgrace, but we are talking about black people in the US, and that is what happens to black people in the US. The above is your statement and yours alone.

Michael
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Even left-wing progressive newspapers aren't immune from the anarchist looters:
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Some still images illustrating looting of the freight train.















  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
...

No, no surprise. Yes other minorities are subject to Discrimination, I know that. And it is a disgrace, but we are talking about black people in the US, and that is what happens to black people in the US. The above is your statement and yours alone.

Michael
mejhammers1
Here are the fatality figures for police arrests in the United States:

For every 10,000 black people arrested for violent crime, 3 are killed

For every 10,000 white people arrested for violent crime, 4 are killed

Please show me how police brutality disproportionately affects black people using these figures.
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
...

No, no surprise. Yes other minorities are subject to Discrimination, I know that. And it is a disgrace, but we are talking about black people in the US, and that is what happens to black people in the US. The above is your statement and yours alone.

Michael
Here are the fatality figures for police arrests in the United States:

For every 10,000 black people arrested for violent crime, 3 are killed

For every 10,000 white people arrested for violent crime, 4 are killed

Please show me how police brutality disproportionately affects black people using these figures.
don_dunstan
If cops are randomly detaining way more black people than white people... thats how. To put the figure into context, you're 100x more likely to die in the US by cop than the UK by cop, even when scaling up the population of the UK to the US's


Also hey, anyone else remember that innocent Australian woman shot in the US by cops? In Minnesota? To which the cop got 12 years in jail?

But where this dude "is doing his job" by kneeling on the guys neck for 10 minutes and as a result, killing him, will probably get smeg all happen to him.
  lsrailfan Chief Commissioner

Location: Somewhere you're not
...

No, no surprise. Yes other minorities are subject to Discrimination, I know that. And it is a disgrace, but we are talking about black people in the US, and that is what happens to black people in the US. The above is your statement and yours alone.

Michael
Here are the fatality figures for police arrests in the United States:

For every 10,000 black people arrested for violent crime, 3 are killed

For every 10,000 white people arrested for violent crime, 4 are killed

Please show me how police brutality disproportionately affects black people using these figures.
If cops are randomly detaining way more black people than white people... thats how. To put the figure into context, you're 100x more likely to die in the US by cop than the UK by cop, even when scaling up the population of the UK to the US's


Also hey, anyone else remember that innocent Australian woman shot in the US by cops? In Minnesota? To which the cop got 12 years in jail?

But where this dude "is doing his job" by kneeling on the guys neck for 10 minutes and as a result, killing him, will probably get smeg all happen to him.
speedemon08
He will get a life sentence, it was Murder no doubt about it. If he doesn't, the riots what we have seen now, will be just a taste of what is to come.
  KRviator Moderator

Location: Up the front
He will get a life sentence, it was Murder no doubt about it. If he doesn't, the riots what we have seen now, will be just a taste of what is to come.
lsrailfan
Murder yes, life sentence no. 10 years perhaps, maybe 12 same as Mohamed Noor. If he gets off though, I agree, the riots now will be nothing compared to the uprising that will occur then!
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

He will get a life sentence, it was Murder no doubt about it. If he doesn't, the riots what we have seen now, will be just a taste of what is to come.
lsrailfan
I reckon he'll get a plea bargain for a couple of years.

Prosecutors will be keen to avoid having a trial where they'll be on the wrong side of the thin blue line.


But the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) reckons that the third-degree murder charge is defective and predicts that Chauvin will get off. Potentially a deliberate move to diffuse a bit of tension immediately while avoiding long term offence to the police unions?
http://www.citypages.com/news/experts-derek-chauvin-will-likely-beat-third-degree-murder-charge/570918851
  NSWGR8022 Deputy Commissioner

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech
He will get a life sentence, it was Murder no doubt about it. If he doesn't, the riots what we have seen now, will be just a taste of what is to come.
Murder yes, life sentence no. 10 years perhaps, maybe 12 same as Mohamed Noor. If he gets off though, I agree, the riots now will be nothing compared to the uprising that will occur then!
KRviator

Has it been established he diee from the knee on his neck because the postmortem says that it was another issue which killed him not the knee.  Can this be believed?

This must be established first.

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