Potential New Mineral Traffic for Bairnsdale

 
  brownhillboy Train Controller

If one watches the drone footage supplied by thekingoffoxes and looks for the bridge at 1.20 mins /sec between the Princess Hwy and the Avon River, they will see a small bridge with 3 piers carrying the rail line. Back in 1998 this used to be 2 x 900mm barrel culverts. There was a large flood and the culverts couldn't handle the volume of water from the Avon River which was flooding all the way up to the Princess Hwy.As a result of the culverts being blocked, the railway was washed away and it looked like the end of the line. Fortunately the line was rebuilt and amazingly the engineer’s didn’t renew the culvert with the same 2 barrel design but a  much much larger bridge was constructed. The same type that we see being rebuilt today. Some lessons were learnt. It’s a truly wonderful legacy for the district that a new bridge over the Avon River is being constructed and that this railway has been able to remain open and will continue to flourish into the future.    

david harvey
Kalbarri has released its preferred rail option for the transport of containerised mineral sands from the Fingerboards mine. If rail wins over road, a new siding is likely to be built east of Fernbank, with a new sealed road providing direct access from the mine. Fingers crossed that a rail operator can come in cheaper than 40 return B-double trips per day to the Port of Melbourne. Upgraded rail access at the port could be a big influence.

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  skitz Chief Commissioner

If one watches the drone footage supplied by thekingoffoxes and looks for the bridge at 1.20 mins /sec between the Princess Hwy and the Avon River, they will see a small bridge with 3 piers carrying the rail line. Back in 1998 this used to be 2 x 900mm barrel culverts. There was a large flood and the culverts couldn't handle the volume of water from the Avon River which was flooding all the way up to the Princess Hwy.As a result of the culverts being blocked, the railway was washed away and it looked like the end of the line. Fortunately the line was rebuilt and amazingly the engineer’s didn’t renew the culvert with the same 2 barrel design but a  much much larger bridge was constructed. The same type that we see being rebuilt today. Some lessons were learnt. It’s a truly wonderful legacy for the district that a new bridge over the Avon River is being constructed and that this railway has been able to remain open and will continue to flourish into the future.    
Kalbarri has released its preferred rail option for the transport of containerised mineral sands from the Fingerboards mine. If rail wins over road, a new siding is likely to be built east of Fernbank, with a new sealed road providing direct access from the mine. Fingers crossed that a rail operator can come in cheaper than 40 return B-double trips per day to the Port of Melbourne. Upgraded rail access at the port could be a big influence.
brownhillboy
The bridge was not replaced for nothing........
  thekingoffoxes Chief Train Controller
  Adogs Chief Train Controller

If one watches the drone footage supplied by thekingoffoxes and looks for the bridge at 1.20 mins /sec between the Princess Hwy and the Avon River, they will see a small bridge with 3 piers carrying the rail line. Back in 1998 this used to be 2 x 900mm barrel culverts. There was a large flood and the culverts couldn't handle the volume of water from the Avon River which was flooding all the way up to the Princess Hwy.As a result of the culverts being blocked, the railway was washed away and it looked like the end of the line. Fortunately the line was rebuilt and amazingly the engineer’s didn’t renew the culvert with the same 2 barrel design but a  much much larger bridge was constructed. The same type that we see being rebuilt today. Some lessons were learnt. It’s a truly wonderful legacy for the district that a new bridge over the Avon River is being constructed and that this railway has been able to remain open and will continue to flourish into the future.    

Kalbarri has released its preferred rail option for the transport of containerised mineral sands from the Fingerboards mine. If rail wins over road, a new siding is likely to be built east of Fernbank, with a new sealed road providing direct access from the mine. Fingers crossed that a rail operator can come in cheaper than 40 return B-double trips per day to the Port of Melbourne. Upgraded rail access at the port could be a big influence.
Kalbarri Resources released their environmental impacted statement according to the local ABC wireless . It was an 8000 page document ,I,II say it again 8000 pages . I hope Kalbarri Resources got the spelling  correct when they referred to Highway One as the Princes Highway that's the Princes Highway.
david harvey

If we're arguing correct spelling, isn't it "Kalbar" Resources, not "Kalbarri"?
  david harvey Chief Train Controller

Location: Bairnsdale Wharf Line
If one watches the drone footage supplied by thekingoffoxes and looks for the bridge at 1.20 mins /sec between the Princess Hwy and the Avon River, they will see a small bridge with 3 piers carrying the rail line. Back in 1998 this used to be 2 x 900mm barrel culverts. There was a large flood and the culverts couldn't handle the volume of water from the Avon River which was flooding all the way up to the Princess Hwy.As a result of the culverts being blocked, the railway was washed away and it looked like the end of the line. Fortunately the line was rebuilt and amazingly the engineer’s didn’t renew the culvert with the same 2 barrel design but a  much much larger bridge was constructed. The same type that we see being rebuilt today. Some lessons were learnt. It’s a truly wonderful legacy for the district that a new bridge over the Avon River is being constructed and that this railway has been able to remain open and will continue to flourish into the future.    

Kalbarri has released its preferred rail option for the transport of containerised mineral sands from the Fingerboards mine. If rail wins over road, a new siding is likely to be built east of Fernbank, with a new sealed road providing direct access from the mine. Fingers crossed that a rail operator can come in cheaper than 40 return B-double trips per day to the Port of Melbourne. Upgraded rail access at the port could be a big influence.
Kalbarri Resources released their environmental impacted statement according to the local ABC wireless . It was an 8000 page document ,I,II say it again 8000 pages . I hope Kalbarri Resources got the spelling  correct when they referred to Highway One as the Princes Highway that's the Princes Highway.

If we're arguing correct spelling, isn't it "Kalbar" Resources, not "Kalbarri"?
Adogs
I sincerely  hope that  we are not arguing, that would be most  un-sportman like , if we were on an photo line and Heavy Harry was steaming past and the crowd had to keep 1.5 metres apart because of Covid 19 well thats cause for gunzals or foamers to argue quite abusively . In the case of incorrect spelling of Kalbar , your are correct the spelling is "Kalbar" Resources, not "Kalbarri" Its a pretty hard gig being a railfan as it appears that you have to have a degree in journalism.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Kalbarri has released its preferred rail option for the transport of containerised mineral sands from the Fingerboards mine. If rail wins over road, a new siding is likely to be built east of Fernbank, with a new sealed road providing direct access from the mine. Fingers crossed that a rail operator can come in cheaper than 40 return B-double trips per day to the Port of Melbourne. Upgraded rail access at the port could be a big influence.
brownhillboy

What would be the negative arguments against using rail?
  lkernan Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
Kalbarri has released its preferred rail option for the transport of containerised mineral sands from the Fingerboards mine. If rail wins over road, a new siding is likely to be built east of Fernbank, with a new sealed road providing direct access from the mine. Fingers crossed that a rail operator can come in cheaper than 40 return B-double trips per day to the Port of Melbourne. Upgraded rail access at the port could be a big influence.

What would be the negative arguments against using rail?
bevans
Well if Metro gets upset about the extra traffic on the Dandenong and Flinders Street bits, that's a negative.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Well if Metro gets upset about the extra traffic on the Dandenong and Flinders Street bits, that's a negative.
lkernan

Will they have a choice or does the government allocate paths?
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Finding a path through the suburban area isn't an issue. It isn't likely to be scheduled during the peak, outside of the peak, their is plenty of path availability in the metro area.
  Galron Chief Commissioner

Location: Werribee, Vic
Well if Metro gets upset about the extra traffic on the Dandenong and Flinders Street bits, that's a negative.

Will they have a choice or does the government allocate paths?
bevans
Metro allocate paths through their area I believe. they are often quoted as one of the many reasons for the demise of the Bairnsdale log train.

Any heavy freight train through the metro area would have to go between 9-10pm and 4-5 am. Would also be interested to know what weight restrictions exist on the viaduct at present on the outer lines any such train would use.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Well if Metro gets upset about the extra traffic on the Dandenong and Flinders Street bits, that's a negative.

Will they have a choice or does the government allocate paths?
Metro allocate paths through their area I believe. they are often quoted as one of the many reasons for the demise of the Bairnsdale log train.

Any heavy freight train through the metro area would have to go between 9-10pm and 4-5 am. Would also be interested to know what weight restrictions exist on the viaduct at present on the outer lines any such train would use.
Galron
Traralgon to Pakenham (and to the Port?) - from Vline Network Operating Requirements:
- The mass per freight vehicle for Broad Gauge trains running on the South line only and Single line sections from Maryvale Exchange Siding via Pakenham using approved wagons, SHALL NOT EXCEED 88 tonnes gross or an axle load of 22 tonnes and is restricted to a maximum of 80km/h (Subject to any lesser speed restrictions).
- The mass per freight vehicle for Broad Gauge trains running on the North Line only from Maryvale Exchange Siding via Pakenham using approved wagons, SHALL NOT EXCEED 84 tonnes gross or an axle load of 21 tonnes and is restricted to a maximum of 60km/h (Subject to any lesser speed restrictions).

It's a 19 Tonne axle load limit East of Traralgon.
  brownhillboy Train Controller
  hbedriver Chief Train Controller

So long as a goods train can run at 40kmh constantly to Dandenong, and 60 to Pakenham, it is easy even within 10 minute gaps between sparks to run a goods through the suburban area. QUBE does so up to 3 times daily each direction (Apex, cement and Maryvale trains)
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
So long as a goods train can run at 40kmh constantly to Dandenong, and 60 to Pakenham, it is easy even within 10 minute gaps between sparks to run a goods through the suburban area. QUBE does so up to 3 times daily each direction (Apex, cement and Maryvale trains)
hbedriver

There is plenty of room for freight as Metro rarely adds services anyhow.
  david harvey Chief Train Controller

Location: Bairnsdale Wharf Line
So long as a goods train can run at 40kmh constantly to Dandenong, and 60 to Pakenham, it is easy even within 10 minute gaps between sparks to run a goods through the suburban area. QUBE does so up to 3 times daily each direction (Apex, cement and Maryvale trains)
hbedriver
Gone are the days of V/line running as many freight train as they please. Today we have private companies looking for economies of scale. If this sand product was to be railed from Fernbank , I cant see it making a train load in the short term there fore say 10 wagons could be attached to the maryvale paper train ,or run the sand train from Fernbank to Dandenong and attach the loading to the cement train which already has a path through South Yarra. If the powers that be what it to happen ,it will happen ,it just depends who is writing the cheques
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

160 km by road plus Port Anthony port charges.
250 km by rail plus Port Of Melbourne port charges.
  gippslander Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Gippsland, Vic
160 km by road plus Port Anthony port charges.
250 km by rail plus Port Of Melbourne port charges.
kitchgp
Port Anthony (Barry Beach) is located on a shallow channel in a marine national park, and despite years of big promises of being Gippsland's new freight hub, it still just handles freight for oil rigs in Bass Strait.
PA can only handle loads of up to about 10000 tonnes without major dredging. The mineral sands business requires large bulk carriers to make it work, not toy tubs.  A Barry Beach option is a very long way from the mine and passes through several largish towns on the way, requiring quite a deal of roadworks and likely community opposition.
I would have thought a big freight task like this was eminently contestable to rail.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

From the link above, courtesy of thekingoffoxes:


Port facility
Port Anthony is approximately 160km from the mine site by road. It has adequate capacity, suitable shed facilities for stockpiling HMC and can accommodate appropriate-sized vessels for exporting HMC. No project works are expected to be required at Port Anthony.

If rail is chosen as a transport option, then the Port of Melbourne will be considered as an alternative to Port Anthony.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
160 km by road plus Port Anthony port charges.
250 km by rail plus Port Of Melbourne port charges.
Port Anthony (Barry Beach) is located on a shallow channel in a marine national park, and despite years of big promises of being Gippsland's new freight hub, it still just handles freight for oil rigs in Bass Strait.
PA can only handle loads of up to about 10000 tonnes without major dredging. The mineral sands business requires large bulk carriers to make it work, not toy tubs.  A Barry Beach option is a very long way from the mine and passes through several largish towns on the way, requiring quite a deal of roadworks and likely community opposition.
I would have thought a big freight task like this was eminently contestable to rail.
gippslander

What happened to  the mineral mining project just north of Bruthen?
  gippslander Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Gippsland, Vic
From the link above, courtesy of thekingoffoxes:


Port facility
Port Anthony is approximately 160km from the mine site by road. It has adequate capacity, suitable shed facilities for stockpiling HMC and can accommodate appropriate-sized vessels for exporting HMC. No project works are expected to be required at Port Anthony.

If rail is chosen as a transport option, then the Port of Melbourne will be considered as an alternative to Port Anthony.
kitchgp
The section on transport options carried out by Arup in the Kalbar website says that road transport to the Australian Paper Maryvale intermodal facility and then 'Port Anthony' would be used until the 'upgrade' of the Avon River bridge was completed. It suggests that once the bridge is available product would be trucked to either the existing Bosworth Rd siding at Bairnsdale or a new siding east of Fernbank. Volumes would appear to be about 800,000-1,000,000 tonnes annually over the mine's 15-20 year life. The permitting process for the proposed mine still has some way to go and construction of the new Avon River bridge is well advanced, suggesting the AP Maryvale option will not be required.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
From the link above, courtesy of thekingoffoxes:


Port facility
Port Anthony is approximately 160km from the mine site by road. It has adequate capacity, suitable shed facilities for stockpiling HMC and can accommodate appropriate-sized vessels for exporting HMC. No project works are expected to be required at Port Anthony.

If rail is chosen as a transport option, then the Port of Melbourne will be considered as an alternative to Port Anthony.
The section on transport options carried out by Arup in the Kalbar website says that road transport to the Australian Paper Maryvale intermodal facility and then 'Port Anthony' would be used until the 'upgrade' of the Avon River bridge was completed. It suggests that once the bridge is available product would be trucked to either the existing Bosworth Rd siding at Bairnsdale or a new siding east of Fernbank.

Volumes would appear to be about 800,000-1,000,000 tonnes annually over the mine's 15-20 year life. The permitting process for the proposed mine still has some way to go and construction of the new Avon River bridge is well advanced, suggesting the AP Maryvale option will not be required.
gippslander

Hi @gippslander those volumes over the 20 years would call for a spur in any other state is this an option for this project?
  gippslander Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Gippsland, Vic

What happened to  the mineral mining project just north of Bruthen?
bevans
The Stockman Mine copper/zinc project at Benambra has new owners - Round Oak Resources, a Qld based company. This project has been scoped for some years and is apparently inching closer to obtaining permits. It has about 400,000 tonnes of containerized output projected over the ten year mine life and the Bosworth Rd siding at Bairnsdale would be an ideal loading point.
However, no decision has been made on the full transport method.
Whilst that mine could use 'Port Anthony' it could only have specially chartered small vessels whereas the Port of Melbourne has a wide variety of existing container services to numerous destinations.
  justarider Deputy Commissioner

Location: Free at last, free at last
From the link above, courtesy of thekingoffoxes:
Port facility
Port Anthony is approximately 160km from the mine site by road.
Volumes would appear to be about 800,000-1,000,000 tonnes annually over the mine's 15-20 year life.  
gippslander

Hi @gippslander those volumes over the 20 years would call for a spur in any other state is this an option for this project?
"bevans"

Indeed, the spur option was not even mentioned. Rather building a new sealed, heavy duty road to to the same job. Cost difference bugger all. Saving on truck usage , huge.

cheers
John
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

From Kalbar’s Fingerboards Project (Glenaladale) website:

Kalbar proposes to extract 170Mt of ore to produce around 8Mt of heavy mineral concentrate (HMC) over 15-20 years.

giving an average of ~500,000 tonnes per annum.
  NSWGR8022 Deputy Commissioner

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech
From Kalbar’s Fingerboards Project (Glenaladale) website:

Kalbar proposes to extract 170Mt of ore to produce around 8Mt of heavy mineral concentrate (HMC) over 15-20 years.

giving an average of ~500,000 tonnes per annum.
kitchgp

Looking closely at the map Fernback seems 1/2 way between Sale and Bairnsdale.  When you look at the distance between Fernbank and the mine site area at Glenaladale is only around 15kms from the Fernback rail line,.  If the mine site has a lift of 15 to 20 years in Queensland and with 170m Tonnes to 500,000 tonnes of traffic to leave the area a spur would be a good alternative to trucks and other movements to the rail head.

15km of rail spur to the mine area (not familiar with the area) would be around $18m once off and some maintenance (which would need to be done on the raods anyway and more expensive) would say be $2m over the period is $20m of investment over 15 years is approximately $750k per annum over 500,000 tonnes is around $1.20 per ton for the use of the spur.  That is going to be a lot cheaper than trucks and roads.

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