Riots in Minnesota

 
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Didn't you say earlier in this threat that there's no way they'd send four cops for a white man? What if the white man had a really long history of involvement with the law just as Geroge Floyd did? Nup - according to you that's just racist.

For a minor forgery case, no they would not. Secondly how do you know that the Minnesota Police knew of Floyd's priors? You do not. Another assumption from the great Don Dunstan. There is no national database concerning police records and criminal records that's why bad cops can move from jurisdiction to another. And I have already said that Floyd is no angel, but hell if Dylan Roof is still alive after shooting 9 people in a church, then Floyd still deserves to be alive.
mejhammers1
Yeah - they DO send multiple cops when you have a violent history. When I was living in Melbourne I was surprised to find three cops on my doorstep one night around 10pm - as it turns out they were looking for a former tenant who had long moved on. But I knew enough about that bloke that he had a history with the police and they were expecting trouble.
No deserves to die like that and you can whinge about white people receiving the same. Just show me an example of a white person being apprehended, forced to the ground in the plain view of everyone in the street and having the life choked out of him for a minor crime. Yes he was high, but he was not resisting arrest. All those are facts and you just blow it off. You moan that it is all about race with me, it is certainly with you. Get it through your thick head, I do not think that White people are inherently racist, I thing that some US cops are, and there is not an argument. That is just a fact. 19% of population is black in Minneapolis but 7 times more likely to be stopped by the police.
mejhammers1
Probably because they're poor - or are more likely to be poor.
Absolutely terrible and my heart goes out to Dorn. I hope that young man gets put in prison for a long time. Black on black crime is a scourge, no doubt, and black people as a community has to deal with this head on. But of course people like you are using that as a political talking point because if he was shot by the Police, the narrative would have been different and that's the point. There was hardly any coverage of Arbery and Taylor for 3 months either. You have not voiced any concern about Arbery or Taylor, totally innocent people. And nor has any Conservative media like Fox News either. Taylor was a nurse who was in training and was helping people through this pandemic, but you would not know it from the Conservative media who focused more on Macy's. I am fact free and emotional, but you are the fair minded factual voice or reason. Yep quoting commissions from 25 years ago, one fact about dying in police custody and blathering on about how much you hate the ABC and leftists. I have agreed with you things like Democrats not doing enough in their held cities and stats on crime and you still argue. Its like you are arguing with yourself sometimes. And you try to shut down discussion with anything you don't agree with. You have not address any questions I have posed at all.
mejahmmers1
Yeah but in the meantime dozens of black people murdered by other black people and not even in the national consciousness. What questions? You need to be a bit more specific.
Why are you talking about Country VIC? Another red-herring. Didn't I say that Australia was a mostly a tolerant society. But if you think there is not a race problem that needs to be addressed with our Indigenous population, then Don you are sticking your head in the sand. You got turned over by the Police, so? Shouting at the top of your voice does not make for a good argument Don. You have not given any convincing arguments at all just your belief. I just believe that race plays no part in what is happenning, without any convincing argument other than, it is me The almighty Don Dunstan who is saying it. Michael
mejhammers1

Red-herring is MY saying!

How am I shouting, I'm just saying the cops target anyone and everyone that they think they can fine or pick up doing something naughty. I really don't think they discriminate, they just like to pick targets that are likely to be powerless and unable to defend themselves in a legal sense.

Anyway I think we're just going around in circles now, Michael. Shalom.

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  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
The one thing that I absolutely disagree with, that is the pulling down of statues around the place, I think that that type of behaviour is disgusting, sure, those people may have done some bad things in the past, but so what, if you don't like the statue, just move on, I think it's nothing but vandalism at best.
lsrailfan
These people are the worst kinds of Maoists - they want to deprive people of the memory of past events. Even Aboriginal Labor MP Linda Burney said that the protesters were stupidly erasing history when they should be trying to understand it and interpret it instead.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
I know that I'm dealing with one of the great minds of our age but can you just cut to the chase?
Patience please. If you're lucky I might wind this up before the weekend. You're coming along just nicely.

Next question: Notwithstanding the physical results of violence, whether it be domestic (i.e. anywhere between death and a fat lip) or public (i.e. arson, vandalism or looting), do you personally see much of a difference between intent and actually following through, regarding the mindset of the perpetrator?
Now you're blathering on about thought-crime? This isn't China, we don't get sent to prison for thinking bad thoughts.
LOL right on cue! Laughing

You've been played.

I had a bet with a mate that you couldn't go more than a few consecutive posts or replies without either going on a tangent or engaging in outright avoidance. I'm happy to collect.

Your actual answers have been irrelevant (as they often are); the manner in which you reply was the main topic of discussion.

You might be famous one day - I hope you don't mind being made an example of in his upcoming peer reviewed publication, based on the mindset of people prone to outbursts and how they react to certain situations including defending the indefensible by 'doubling down' and becoming hysterical. I'm interested in his work because I have an opinion that this sort of behaviour is predominantly a trait of conservatives, and I don't understand it. Don't worry, your anonymity is guaranteed.

In the meantime, based on your reply, it seems that your position would be to defend the actions of the heavily armed rednecks taking to the streets of Coeur d'Alene in whiter than average/more Republican than average Idaho, who were reacting to fake social media posts about an Antifa invasion:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-10/how-a-rumour-about-antifa-looters-fuelled-fear-in-regional-usa/12334638

Compare this to the mainly peaceful BLM protests (until the ratbags come out after dark) every day in trigger-happy America, held by (mainly) African Americans,....unarmed.
Nice try.

You asked me is there a difference between intent and action - and I responded by saying that we don't get charged for thought-crime in this country (unless you go on the internet and directly threaten people or similar).

How is that going off on a tangent? I answered your supposition directly by saying "no" (with obvious qualifications). Unless you're going to try and argue that criminal verbal threats are tantamount to "thoughts/intent" (which they're not).

Like all lefties you're just intellectually dishonest and try and look for your GOTCHA moment so that you can say that I'm either avoiding the question or jumping to conclusions - of which I did neither.
don_dunstan
No, I asked you if, in your opinion, there is a difference in the mindset of people with intent and those that actually carry out action - and I'm still waiting for an answer.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
You might be famous one day - I hope you don't mind being made an example of in his upcoming peer reviewed publication, based on the mindset of people prone to outbursts and how they react to certain situations including defending the indefensible by 'doubling down' and becoming hysterical.
Point to one example where I've been "hysterical"... it's all in your head, buddy-boy. You falsely ascribe emotions to me that I don't have and you try and put words into my mouth that I never said.
don_dunstan
Your replies come across as shrill in the least and rabid at worst. Try re-reading your posts the next morning when you are sober.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
Compare this to the mainly peaceful BLM protests (until the ratbags come out after dark) every day in trigger-happy America, held by (mainly) African Americans,....unarmed.
That's a direct lie. They were throwing bricks at the police out the front of the White House and when they got tear-gassed they cried foul.
don_dunstan
I said MAINLY peaceful. In the meantime, you defend heavily armed conservatives with murderous intent, but castigate the handful of blacks throwing stones among the many millions of unarmed, peaceful protesters.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
Also you didnt adress the last part of his post Don, which was the far right rednecks beliving Antifa was coming to their town, which from all accounts was from an unverified source on social media that couldnt provide any proof to back up the claims, but the seed was sown and they all bounced off each other jumping at the ghosts that wernt actually there, or ever going to be.
What does that have to do with anything being discussed here? It's just a herring introduced by Dirty Ballast to try and justify all the other vapid dribble that he wrote.
don_dunstan
I beg to differ. Your reluctance, through silence (reinforcing my claim that you avoid), to admit that you favour the 'rights' of heavily armed white conservatives to slay dragons is tacit approval, yet the best you can do to balance the argument is to accuse a tiny minority amongst the peaceful protesters that launch a few yonnies?

And 'vapid dribble'? As in 'dry water'? Laughing
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
No, I asked you if, in your opinion, there is a difference in the mindset of people with intent and those that actually carry out action - and I'm still waiting for an answer.
DirtyBallast
Yeah but actually doing the act is the part that counts in a court of law.
Your replies come across as shrill in the least and rabid at worst. Try re-reading your posts the next morning when you are sober.
Dirty Ballast
It doesn't matter what my state of mind is your posts still register as a plop stain on the sheets.
I said MAINLY peaceful. In the meantime, you defend heavily armed conservatives with murderous intent, but castigate the handful of blacks throwing stones among the many millions of unarmed, peaceful protesters.
Dirty Ballast
Yeah right so I must have imagined all the deaths that have happened as a result of the riots. Alcoholic haze and all that.
I beg to differ. Your reluctance, through silence (reinforcing my claim that you avoid), to admit that you favour the 'rights' of heavily armed white conservatives to slay dragons is tacit approval, yet the best you can do to balance the argument is to accuse a tiny minority amongst the peaceful protesters that launch a few yonnies? And 'vapid dribble'? As in 'dry water'? Laughing
Dirty Ballast
Well if they abolish the police forces then it'll be the survival of the most heavily armed, won't it.

"Vapid" means content-free dribble-poop. You need to buy a dictionary, girlfriend.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
No, I asked you if, in your opinion, there is a difference in the mindset of people with intent and those that actually carry out action - and I'm still waiting for an answer.
Yeah but actually doing the act is the part that counts in a court of law.
Your replies come across as shrill in the least and rabid at worst. Try re-reading your posts the next morning when you are sober.
It doesn't matter what my state of mind is your posts still register as a plop stain on the sheets.
I said MAINLY peaceful. In the meantime, you defend heavily armed conservatives with murderous intent, but castigate the handful of blacks throwing stones among the many millions of unarmed, peaceful protesters.
Yeah right so I must have imagined all the deaths that have happened as a result of the riots. Alcoholic haze and all that.
I beg to differ. Your reluctance, through silence (reinforcing my claim that you avoid), to admit that you favour the 'rights' of heavily armed white conservatives to slay dragons is tacit approval, yet the best you can do to balance the argument is to accuse a tiny minority amongst the peaceful protesters that launch a few yonnies? And 'vapid dribble'? As in 'dry water'? Laughing
Well if they abolish the police forces then it'll be the survival of the most heavily armed, won't it.

"Vapid" means content-free dribble-poop. You need to buy a dictionary, girlfriend.
don_dunstan
(1) But it's not what I asked you!
(2) Humour is not your strong suit. It smacks of desperation. Better to refrain in the future.
(3) I'm talking about the mainly peaceful protest MARCHES all over the country and you keep talking about something else. Tangent, etc.
(4a) You have misinterpreted, or rather made up your own mind due to ignorance, what defunding means. it does NOT mean abolish. What it DOES mean is to let some non-core duties go to someone else, whether it be private operators or community based organisations. But if you feel strongly enough about it, off you go to give the rednecks a hand.
(4b) You created an oxymoron and I treated it as such.

I think it's about time you joined Shane for a while.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Compare this to the mainly peaceful BLM protests (until the ratbags come out after dark) every day in trigger-happy America, held by (mainly) African Americans,....unarmed.
That's a direct lie. They were throwing bricks at the police out the front of the White House and when they got tear-gassed they cried foul.
I said MAINLY peaceful. In the meantime, you defend heavily armed conservatives with murderous intent, but castigate the handful of blacks throwing stones among the many millions of unarmed, peaceful protesters.
DirtyBallast
Of course they were mainly peaceful. If the peaceful protest in Washington had been violent and organised they could have overwhelmed the Secret Service and exercised the Second Amendment on the president.

That they managed to exclude the agitators so effectively that there was nothing more than a handful of stones thrown even after the police instigated the violence is quite an impressive feat of organisation.

I hope that leaders in the Palestinian community are watching. If they can manage the same level of organised peaceful resistance tactics, they will have the power to force western democracies to bring Israel to heel and force a settlement.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Righto, time for some perspective.

Systemic racism is real.  Read this salient essay by retired Detroit Police Chief Isaac McKinnon:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/06/11/floyd-killing-police-must-change-former-detroit-chief-column/5341884002/

The issue is far deeper than just racism.  Fatherlessness is a significant issue, although this article lacks insight on how neo-liberal economics, poverty and racism can be a cause of this, creating a vicious cycle:
https://thefederalist.com/2020/06/12/to-truly-reduce-racial-disparities-we-must-acknowledge-black-fathers-matter/

And extremists on both sides need to listen to John Cleese.  This was from the 1980's:
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
(1) But it's not what I asked you!
DirtyBallast
You keep dragging in this red herring of those stupid white people as if it has relevance to this discussion and it doesn't. If it does then you need to prove your point instead of trying to draw a false analogy of thinking/doing being the same thing under law.
(2) Humour is not your strong suit. It smacks of desperation. Better to refrain in the future.
DirtyBallast
I could say exactly the same thing about your construction of arguments; you think you're the smartest guy in the room but you're not.
(3) I'm talking about the mainly peaceful protest MARCHES all over the country and you keep talking about something else. Tangent, etc.
DirtyBallast
So the marches had nothing to do with the looting and the rioting? The looting started incredibly early when the footage went around the world of the crowd looting that Target in Minneapolis. It's pretty clear that the rioting was either inextricably linked to the protesters or that (at the very least) it was difficult to tell if a seemingly legitimate protest was going to turn into an excuse to smash and loot. How are the authorities supposed to know whether a peaceful protest will turn bad? There's no official way to tell.

And the looting is STILL going on under the cover of the BLM protests - there was a Wal-Mart looted in Florida only yesterday by a protest that started out peacefully. It might not be the intention of the organisers but there are certainly people in these crowds who are looking for trouble and are good at making it.
(4a) You have misinterpreted, or rather made up your own mind due to ignorance, what defunding means. it does NOT mean abolish. What it DOES mean is to let some non-core duties go to someone else, whether it be private operators or community based organisations. But if you feel strongly enough about it, off you go to give the rednecks a hand.
DirtyBallast
"Community based organisations" - LOL. So you'll be able to call a counsellor or a social worker when someone is breaking into your house?
(4b) You created an oxymoron and I treated it as such. I think it's about time you joined Shane for a while.
DirtyBallast
If you're talking about ignoring me in the future - fine. I'm all for it.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
...

I think it's about time you joined Shane for a while.
DirtyBallast
I believe Shane has had his hands full with the COVID situation in Dubai interfering with his work which is why he hasn't been active here lately.
  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
So people who can't even keep control of the people who turn up to events they organise would have us believe they know how to better organise policing for whole cities?
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
So people who can't even keep control of the people who turn up to events they organise would have us believe they know how to better organise policing for whole cities?
billybaxter
Even large parts of the army/national guard hate the cops. Bare minimum training and they dont like you being too smart so you'll follow the line.
  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
In that case you probably think doctors hate nurses too. Where did you get this information from?
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
In that case you probably think doctors hate nurses too.
"billybaxter"
Where did YOU get this crackpot idea from?
  KRviator Moderator

Location: Up the front
You have to ask the question now: "Are police officers in America taking the pi$$, or are they really that stupid?"

Another bloke has been shot and killed by Police. He was black, unarmed and running away from Police at the time. His "crime"? He reportedly fell asleep in a drive-through while DUI and scuffled with the officers who tried to arrest him. At what point the use of lethal force could even remotely be considered appropriate I have no idea. Rolling Eyes

The ABC news story
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
You have to ask the question now: "Are police officers in America taking the pi$$, or are they really that stupid?"
"KRviator"
Short answer; yes, they are that stupid.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

You have to ask the question now: "Are police officers in America taking the pi$$, or are they really that stupid?"
Short answer; yes, they are that stupid.
Valvegear
I’ve watched some body cam footage recently, stupid, badge carrying thugs.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

In that case you probably think doctors hate nurses too.
Where did YOU get this crackpot idea from?
Valvegear
Don't even try to fathom the logic of Billy! Freud would have trouble to figure out that one!!


Michael
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

You have to ask the question now: "Are police officers in America taking the pi$$, or are they really that stupid?"

Another bloke has been shot and killed by Police. He was black, unarmed and running away from Police at the time. His "crime"? He reportedly fell asleep in a drive-through while DUI and scuffled with the officers who tried to arrest him. At what point the use of lethal force could even remotely be considered appropriate I have no idea. Rolling Eyes

The ABC news story
KRviator
And yet some would equate their one experience of the Police to that of Black males in the US and indeed some parts of Australia on a regular occurence. You can give evidence like this until you are blue in the face and some will never see it. And that is why there is division in the US.


Michael
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
Better to refrain in the future.
I could say exactly the same thing about your construction of arguments; you think you're the smartest guy in the room but you're not.
don_dunstan
No, I've never thought that, but there you go again.

I'm only just smart enough to know how to push your buttons. Oh, and how to make a fortune by taking advantage of the mechanisms that Hawke and Keating implemented all those years ago, but that's a different story. Wink
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Better to refrain in the future.
I could say exactly the same thing about your construction of arguments; you think you're the smartest guy in the room but you're not.
No, I've never thought that, but there you go again.

I'm only just smart enough to know how to push your buttons. Oh, and how to make a fortune by taking advantage of the mechanisms that Hawke and Keating implemented all those years ago, but that's a different story. Wink
DirtyBallast
Really? There you are talking yourself up (again) by telling us all how smart you are.

Insight is NOT your strong point!
  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
Haha! Dirty Ballast tried the old 'yeah, well I'm rich!' put down, so beloved of lefties when they've they're losing an argument. And as for these Atlanta police officers, who can blame them for being a bit on edge with everything that's going on, the looting, the destruction of police stations, the rioting, the screaming obese maniacs calling for the heads of all police officers and introduction of mob rule? Imagine yourself in their situation.
  KRviator Moderator

Location: Up the front
And as for these Atlanta police officers, who can blame them for being a bit on edge with everything that's going on, the looting, the destruction of police stations, the rioting, the screaming obese maniacs calling for the heads of all police officers and introduction of mob rule? Imagine yourself in their situation.
billybaxter
I can blame them - and I bloody well DO blame them. If you cannot make quick & rational decisions as to when to employ a firearm, you have no business being a Police officer. Latest reports are he managed to grab a taser from one of the arresting officers. So what? A taser, by definition, is a less-than-lethal option for officers. They can't be killed by it, so why employ a firearm - particularly given the current environment in the US at the time! If those officers were so frightened of the possibility of being hit by a taser, one has to wonder whether they (the taser device) should be employed at all...

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