State Govt's Regional Rail Revival

 
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

"Same deal on Gippsland (North line) and the Seymour line.'
The North line is back to 130 km/h for VLocitys.
NimbleJack
Thanks for the info on that.

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  skitz Chief Commissioner

Yep, for the past 11 months the East line has had a 115 km/h limit for V/locities wacked on it. Same deal on Gippsland (North line) and the Seymour line.

I believe it's got something to do with VLos being heavier than they were. Along with Class 2 tracks not being up to it...
Carnot
Its a bit more sinister than that.   More along the line that it was 'assumed' the Vlocity (notionally 19t) could operate the same as a Sprinter (notionally 16t).  Imagine the 'yes minister' moments that have gone on and still going on.
  Lockie91 Chief Train Controller

Yep, for the past 11 months the East line has had a 115 km/h limit for V/locities wacked on it. Same deal on Gippsland (North line) and the Seymour line.

I believe it's got something to do with VLos being heavier than they were. Along with Class 2 tracks not being up to it...
Its a bit more sinister than that.   More along the line that it was 'assumed' the Vlocity (notionally 19t) could operate the same as a Sprinter (notionally 16t).  Imagine the 'yes minister' moments that have gone on and still going on.
skitz
Vlos have a top speed of 200km/h, they are limited at 160km due to infrastructure. Apparently even that is not enough.

All the talk of fast rail, spend the money on upgrading the current Infrastructure and let the Vlos cruise as 200km/h. No need to re invent the wheel, but I'm sure the government thinks otherwise.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

Hello, looks like works have finally started now on those extra stations they promised.

https://www.facebook.com/JacintaAllanMP/posts/3053646438079159
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Hello, looks like works have finally started now on those extra stations they promised.

https://www.facebook.com/JacintaAllanMP/posts/3053646438079159
True Believers

Don't start Bendigo discussion in here.

Refer to

https://www.railpage.com.au/f-p2184002.htm#2184002

M.
  NimbleJack Station Master

VLocitys are rated to 210 km/h, but the current transmissions are only good for around 180 km/h.

Given that your average Melbourne to Bendigo service spends well under 10 minutes at 160 km/h, it would be pointless increasing line speed. The required infrastructure investments would be colossal for very little benefit. Even if you eased every curve and upgraded every stretch of track, you'd spend but a few minutes at maximum speed before either braking for a station or wheezing up a hill.

On the Bendigo line at least, we're condemned to inefficient diesel traction for a long time. Perhaps Pendolino rolling stock might be a better use of our scarce funds? Saw
  John.Z Chief Train Controller

On the Bendigo line at least, we're condemned to inefficient diesel traction for a long time. Perhaps Pendolino rolling stock might be a better use of our scarce funds? Saw
NimbleJack
Class 800/802 are probably the best value to replace the VLos. Electric/Diesel-Electric so can electrify as necessary whilst not needing change of train. Line speed 200km/hr, probably go up to 250km/hr
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Hello, looks like works have finally started now on those extra stations they promised.

https://www.facebook.com/JacintaAllanMP/posts/3053646438079159

Don't start Bendigo discussion in here.

Refer to

https://www.railpage.com.au/f-p2184002.htm#2184002

M.
The Vinelander

Agreed.  Also find the video here https://www.railpage.com.au/downloads?mode=download.view&id=1216
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia


On the Bendigo line at least, we're condemned to inefficient diesel traction for a long time. Perhaps Pendolino rolling stock might be a better use of our scarce funds? Saw
NimbleJack

I have been calling out the need for electrification for some time.  Indian has this week announced a programme to electrify the remaining BG lines on the network and to be carbon neutral by 2030 which is something not even on the agenda here which is sad.  We need a lot of investment in the 4 main regional trunk lines IO have called out previous as have others.

We need investment including electrification and better rollingstock (non diesel envrionemtally friendly)

Melbourne to Geelong
Geelong to Ballarat
Ballarat to Melbourne
Bendigo area to Melbourne
Seymour to Melbourne

Before anyone goes off and stays this is ridiculous think why?  Why is it ridiculous to think this should not be done where when it is being done in other countries right now?

Victoria as more renewable energy coming online everyday which could take advantage of this investment.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

Hello, looks like works have finally started now on those extra stations they promised.

https://www.facebook.com/JacintaAllanMP/posts/3053646438079159

Don't start Bendigo discussion in here.

Refer to

https://www.railpage.com.au/f-p2184002.htm#2184002

M.
The Vinelander
Sorry, I thought the associated works of the Bendigo upgrade are part of the regional rail revival program, so I posted in the general RRR thread. I didn't mean to do any harm starting the discussion onto another thread.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line


On the Bendigo line at least, we're condemned to inefficient diesel traction for a long time. Perhaps Pendolino rolling stock might be a better use of our scarce funds? Saw
I have been calling out the need for electrification for some time.  Indian has this week announced a programme to electrify the remaining BG lines on the network and to be carbon neutral by 2030 which is something not even on the agenda here which is sad.  We need a lot of investment in the 4 main regional trunk lines IO have called out previous as have others.

We need investment including electrification and better rollingstock (non diesel envrionemtally friendly)

Melbourne to Geelong
Geelong to Ballarat
Ballarat to Melbourne
Bendigo area to Melbourne
Seymour to Melbourne
bevans

...and once more, what's to be done with around 90, 3 car sets of V'Locity's that are about ¼ of the way through their economic life.

Mike.
  jakar Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne


On the Bendigo line at least, we're condemned to inefficient diesel traction for a long time. Perhaps Pendolino rolling stock might be a better use of our scarce funds? Saw
I have been calling out the need for electrification for some time.  Indian has this week announced a programme to electrify the remaining BG lines on the network and to be carbon neutral by 2030 which is something not even on the agenda here which is sad.  We need a lot of investment in the 4 main regional trunk lines IO have called out previous as have others.

We need investment including electrification and better rollingstock (non diesel envrionemtally friendly)

Melbourne to Geelong
Geelong to Ballarat
Ballarat to Melbourne
Bendigo area to Melbourne
Seymour to Melbourne
...and once more, what's to be done with around 90, 3 car sets of V'Locity's that are about ¼ of the way through their economic life.

Mike.
The Vinelander
Not to mention there's barely enough funding to keep the current system operational as it is let alone spending squillions on arguably unnecessary electrification.
  True Believers Chief Commissioner

Hello, since the Ballarat line got upgraded as part of the regional rail revival program, with multiple passing loops and duplicated track, has the situation actually improved in terms of punctuality and more services?

Also has the dog-leg passing loop been decommissioned yet?
  ngarner Assistant Commissioner

Location: Seville
Hello, since the Ballarat line got upgraded as part of the regional rail revival program, with multiple passing loops and duplicated track, has the situation actually improved in terms of punctuality and more services?

Also has the dog-leg passing loop been decommissioned yet?
True Believers
By my understanding this is supposed to happen in August or September to finish off the "completed" project.

Neil
  Lockie91 Chief Train Controller



On the Bendigo line at least, we're condemned to inefficient diesel traction for a long time. Perhaps Pendolino rolling stock might be a better use of our scarce funds? Saw
I have been calling out the need for electrification for some time.  Indian has this week announced a programme to electrify the remaining BG lines on the network and to be carbon neutral by 2030 which is something not even on the agenda here which is sad.  We need a lot of investment in the 4 main regional trunk lines IO have called out previous as have others.

We need investment including electrification and better rollingstock (non diesel envrionemtally friendly)

Melbourne to Geelong
Geelong to Ballarat
Ballarat to Melbourne
Bendigo area to Melbourne
Seymour to Melbourne
...and once more, what's to be done with around 90, 3 car sets of V'Locity's that are about ¼ of the way through their economic life.

Mike.
The Vinelander
88 three car sets currently. Plus whatever comes out of the NE set. Which is 44 six car sets. How they are used the majority of time during peak periods. V/Line will soon have enough sets to phase out the H cars, this will mean they will need to stretch the Vlo fleet a little harder. Anyway...

Electrification to Geelong should be a priority, the remainder in the regional lines not sure much. The idea of speed needs to be dropped from Geelong, being able to commute under an hour from a regional centre is fine. It takes longer to commute from some suburbs.

The cost justification shouldn't be about speed, it comes down to OPEX. It cost V/line a mint in fuel to run a 6 car 20 minute service to Geelong. In the long term it would be cheaper for the government to spark Geelong and save minions in operating costs. Which is where Geelong Fast Rail comes in. Geelong should not be seen as a regional service, it is purely interurban and should be run as such. 6 - 9 car (2+2 seating) electric sets every 10 minutes in the peak and 20 off peak is what's needed. Even a Velocity variant would do the trick and save the government plenty as Bombardier is ready to go.

GFR won't happen until WV & Melton are done, this will release some capacity for Vline. If the fore-mentioned projects are completed properly maintaining a dedicated regional track then speed is no issue. If a future electrified service can get a clear run at 160km/h from Sunshine to Little River this then brings the travel time for Geelong well under an hour.

As for the rest of the regional network, sparking is a long way off. There is no need to spend the money as pax from Bendigo, Seymour & Ballarat do not justify it. V/line isn't running packed 6 car sets to Bendigo and Ballarat every 20 minutes and won't be until these regions turn into secondary 'cities' as Geelong has. Start with Geelong in the next 10 years then maybe Ballarat might have the pax and cascade from there.  

As for the Vlos, first was introduced in 2004, that would be a happy 16th birthday this year. Let's say Geelong is 10 years away that brings them closer to 30 years. I imagine they would still be used on long haul routes such as Warrnambool. So still some use for them for decades too comes even after Geelong and Ballarat. I would hope by the time the Vlos do need to be retired in 40 years all regional lines are sparked and we are not building more DMU's
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Hello, since the Ballarat line got upgraded as part of the regional rail revival program, with multiple passing loops and duplicated track, has the situation actually improved in terms of punctuality and more services?

Also has the dog-leg passing loop been decommissioned yet?
True Believers

That's a No and a No.

M.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

It's probably a good time to finish off the Ballarat line works with patronage at an all-time low...

Just make sure freight can continue to use the Geelong-Ballarat line.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

An update from the State Govt:
https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/funding-boost-to-improve-freight-and-passenger-rail/

Some interesting take-homes:

- N and H-sets will live on for a long while yet. (so much for V/los on Shepp and Warrnambubble lines in the next 5 years).
- 400km of line maintenance on freight-only lines (that was previously announced anyway, although it looks like another 100km has been added).  My understanding is that the Echuca-Toolamba line will be fixed and reopened soon.
- Bendigo East Track (Kyneton to Sunbury) gets resleepered/upgraded (probably all-concrete?).
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

An update from the State Govt:
https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/funding-boost-to-improve-freight-and-passenger-rail/

Some interesting take-homes:

- N and H-sets will live on for a long while yet. (so much for V/los on Shepp and Warrnambubble lines in the next 5 years).
- 400km of line maintenance on freight-only lines (that was previously announced anyway, although it looks like another 100km has been added).  My understanding is that the Echuca-Toolamba line will be fixed and reopened soon.
- Bendigo East Track (Kyneton to Sunbury) gets resleepered/upgraded (probably all-concrete?).
Carnot
Acontact up Echuca way has mentioned that they are expecting a good rice harvest this time round
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

An update from the State Govt:
https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/funding-boost-to-improve-freight-and-passenger-rail/

Some interesting take-homes:

- N and H-sets will live on for a long while yet. (so much for V/los on Shepp and Warrnambubble lines in the next 5 years).
- 400km of line maintenance on freight-only lines (that was previously announced anyway, although it looks like another 100km has been added).  My understanding is that the Echuca-Toolamba line will be fixed and reopened soon.
- Bendigo East Track (Kyneton to Sunbury) gets resleepered/upgraded (probably all-concrete?).
Acontact up Echuca way has mentioned that they are expecting a good rice harvest this time round
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
- N and H-sets will live on for a long while yet. (so much for V/los on Shepp and Warrnambubble lines in the next 5 years).
- 400km of line maintenance on freight-only lines (that was previously announced anyway, although it looks like another 100km has been added).  My understanding is that the Echuca-Toolamba line will be fixed and reopened soon.
- Bendigo East Track (Kyneton to Sunbury) gets resleepered/upgraded (probably all-concrete?).
Carnot

The N sets but be getting on two what 50 years old?
  TheMeddlingMonk Deputy Commissioner

Location: The Time Vortex near Melbourne, Australia
- N and H-sets will live on for a long while yet. (so much for V/los on Shepp and Warrnambubble lines in the next 5 years).
- 400km of line maintenance on freight-only lines (that was previously announced anyway, although it looks like another 100km has been added).  My understanding is that the Echuca-Toolamba line will be fixed and reopened soon.
- Bendigo East Track (Kyneton to Sunbury) gets resleepered/upgraded (probably all-concrete?).

The N sets but be getting on two what 50 years old?
bevans
They came into service in 1981-1984, IIRC. So yes, they'll probably be 50+ by the time they're retired (I'm assuming that it'll take until at least 2030 for them to be withdrawn).
  Carnot Minister for Railways

- N and H-sets will live on for a long while yet. (so much for V/los on Shepp and Warrnambubble lines in the next 5 years).
- 400km of line maintenance on freight-only lines (that was previously announced anyway, although it looks like another 100km has been added).  My understanding is that the Echuca-Toolamba line will be fixed and reopened soon.
- Bendigo East Track (Kyneton to Sunbury) gets resleepered/upgraded (probably all-concrete?).

The N sets but be getting on two what 50 years old?
They came into service in 1981-1984, IIRC. So yes, they'll probably be 50+ by the time they're retired (I'm assuming that it'll take until at least 2030 for them to be withdrawn).
TheMeddlingMonk
Some Z-cars date to 1956, which could make them over 70 years old by the time they are retired...
  justarider Deputy Commissioner

Location: Bored at home
- N and H-sets will live on for a long while yet. (so much for V/los on Shepp and Warrnambubble lines in the next 5 years).
- 400km of line maintenance on freight-only lines (that was previously announced anyway, although it looks like another 100km has been added).  My understanding is that the Echuca-Toolamba line will be fixed and reopened soon.
- Bendigo East Track (Kyneton to Sunbury) gets resleepered/upgraded (probably all-concrete?).

The N sets but be getting on two what 50 years old?
They came into service in 1981-1984, IIRC. So yes, they'll probably be 50+ by the time they're retired (I'm assuming that it'll take until at least 2030 for them to be withdrawn).
Some Z-cars date to 1956, which could make them over 70 years old by the time they are retired...
Carnot
Talk about the age of N and Z cars is a bit like discussing 50yo Jumbo jets.

They have been maintained, re-furbished , re-built so many times its very hard to pick what, if anything, is original.

According to VicSig, Z were re-built in 2003. N were re-furbished in 2013.
They are continually getting new wheels, bogies etc.

As long as they remain fit for purpose, not a problem. Not forgetting that they actually survive the Victorian goat tracks better than V/lo.
Money on good tracks is a better value, improving the feel of all types.

cheers
John
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
- N and H-sets will live on for a long while yet. (so much for V/los on Shepp and Warrnambubble lines in the next 5 years).
- 400km of line maintenance on freight-only lines (that was previously announced anyway, although it looks like another 100km has been added).  My understanding is that the Echuca-Toolamba line will be fixed and reopened soon.
- Bendigo East Track (Kyneton to Sunbury) gets resleepered/upgraded (probably all-concrete?).

The N sets but be getting on two what 50 years old?
They came into service in 1981-1984, IIRC. So yes, they'll probably be 50+ by the time they're retired (I'm assuming that it'll take until at least 2030 for them to be withdrawn).
Some Z-cars date to 1956, which could make them over 70 years old by the time they are retired...
Carnot

The Z cars were by far better built than the N cars and it shows.
Z cars also have Comeng bogies and therefore ride much more smoothly than the N Cars which have always retained the same cheap 1980's bogies. The N car toilets have always been crappy...stinking on hot days and simply a waste of the usable space allocated to the function. The automatic couplers on the N cars guarantee harsh stops and starts.

Mike.

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