Rowville - proposed extension

 
  justarider Deputy Commissioner

Location: Free at last, free at last
Lots of proper dining in Town Square and even the cinema area is good now. Not sure how it's relevant to Rowville line extension? Anyway: Chadstone would probably like a train station, imagine how many internationals it would bring in $$$, and they could abandon their Chadstone coach from behind Federation Square.


Back on track now??
Reality check, Chadstone is only 1km from the Dandy line.
There are direct buses from Carnegie, Murrumbeena, Hughesdale, Oakleigh stations: all with a trip time to Chaddy under 10 minutes. Even the direct bus from Caulfield is just 13.
So why spend $squillions if this is the prime consideration?

cheers
John
justarider
Chadstone having a station would probably get more people in by public transport. There are a lot of lazy people in this country, people who don't care that Chaddy is 1km from the train line. To them walking is still walking.
And all those do have a short trip time but you seem to forget that you have to wait for a bus as well. Suddenly, getting there in under 10 minutes isn't that impressive if you consider the 20 minute wait!
"stooge spark"

Sad but true. Are we convinced that these same lazy people would catch a tram/train anyway?

cheers
John

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  stooge spark Chief Train Controller

Location: My House
You'd be pretty surprised John.
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

People are weird.

They'll get the train to the MCG (richmond) but not Docklands (spencer st) because they'd have to change trains at flinders.

People will drive if they can't get a train (or maybe tram) the whole way, because busses are seen as slow, windy and infrequent.

The bus network needs a massive overhaul so that the public can have confidence in it. Confidence the bus will show up and on time, confidence that if a bus doesn't show, it's not a 30/45/60 min wait for the next one.

Especially with Melbourne's grid for the majority of its suburbs, it should be possible to run busses NS and EW such that you could get from A to B with only two busses anywhere in Melbourne. To ensure bus routes aren't too long (bunching and spacing issues) run them between major locations like shopping centres and train stations and at high frequency (every 10 to 15 minutes from 6am to 10pm).
  justarider Deputy Commissioner

Location: Free at last, free at last
People are weird.

They'll get the train to the MCG (richmond) but not Docklands (spencer st) because they'd have to change trains at flinders.

People will drive if they can't get a train (or maybe tram) the whole way, because busses are seen as slow, windy and infrequent.

The bus network needs a massive overhaul so that the public can have confidence in it. Confidence the bus will show up and on time, confidence that if a bus doesn't show, it's not a 30/45/60 min wait for the next one.

Especially with Melbourne's grid for the majority of its suburbs, it should be possible to run busses NS and EW such that you could get from A to B with only two busses anywhere in Melbourne. To ensure bus routes aren't too long (bunching and spacing issues) run them between major locations like shopping centres and train stations and at high frequency (every 10 to 15 minutes from 6am to 10pm).
"John.Z"

Oooooo like a shuttle bus Chaddy to Hugesdale every 10 minutes off peak (to meet Up and Down trains that cross 1 minute apart) for an 8 minute drive. It's just tooo simple for Melbourne.

cheers
John
  Upven Locomotive Driver

Lots of proper dining in Town Square and even the cinema area is good now. Not sure how it's relevant to Rowville line extension? Anyway: Chadstone would probably like a train station, imagine how many internationals it would bring in $$$, and they could abandon their Chadstone coach from behind Federation Square.


Back on track now??
Reality check, Chadstone is only 1km from the Dandy line.
There are direct buses from Carnegie, Murrumbeena, Hughesdale, Oakleigh stations: all with a trip time to Chaddy under 10 minutes. Even the direct bus from Caulfield is just 13.
So why spend $squillions if this is the prime consideration?

cheers
John
Chadstone having a station would probably get more people in by public transport. There are a lot of lazy people in this country, people who don't care that Chaddy is 1km from the train line. To them walking is still walking.
And all those do have a short trip time but you seem to forget that you have to wait for a bus as well. Suddenly, getting there in under 10 minutes isn't that impressive if you consider the 20 minute wait!
stooge spark
Exactly. Unfortunately those three stations mentioned lack what Chadstone has: a growing employment cluster responsible for employing thousands upon thousands of people. It's only going to continue growing with more office towers coming and Vicinity Centre's have signaled they want apartments too. As this city gets more and more dense branch lines are just an obvious thing that will be needed for employment clusters.
  justarider Deputy Commissioner

Location: Free at last, free at last
Exactly. Unfortunately those three stations mentioned lack what Chadstone has: a growing employment cluster responsible for employing thousands upon thousands of people. It's only going to continue growing with more office towers coming and Vicinity Centre's have signaled they want apartments too. As this city gets more and more dense branch lines are just an obvious thing that will be needed for employment clusters.
"Upven"


Exactly what relevance to a mythical cluster at Chaddy would be to Rowville?

cheers
John
  Rossco T Chief Train Controller

Location: Camberwell, Victoria
Exactly. Unfortunately those three stations mentioned lack what Chadstone has: a growing employment cluster responsible for employing thousands upon thousands of people. It's only going to continue growing with more office towers coming and Vicinity Centre's have signaled they want apartments too. As this city gets more and more dense branch lines are just an obvious thing that will be needed for employment clusters.


Exactly what relevance to a mythical cluster at Chaddy would be to Rowville?

cheers
John
justarider
A tram line to Rowville would run directly past Chaddy allowing people from Rowville to work or shop at Chadstone.

Ross
  Rossco T Chief Train Controller

Location: Camberwell, Victoria
The bus network needs a massive overhaul so that the public can have confidence in it. Confidence the bus will show up and on time, confidence that if a bus doesn't show, it's not a 30/45/60 min wait for the next one.

Especially with Melbourne's grid for the majority of its suburbs, it should be possible to run busses NS and EW such that you could get from A to B with only two busses anywhere in Melbourne. To ensure bus routes aren't too long (bunching and spacing issues) run them between major locations like shopping centres and train stations and at high frequency (every 10 to 15 minutes from 6am to 10pm).
John.Z
Do you mean something like what has just been proposed for Adelaide?

https://dpti.sa.gov.au/new_public_transport_network

Ross
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

Do you mean something like what has just been proposed for Adelaide?

https://dpti.sa.gov.au/new_public_transport_network

Ross
Rossco T
Like this:



source: http://www.stevepemberton.com.au/mapping/improving-melbournes-bus-routes/
  justarider Deputy Commissioner

Location: Free at last, free at last
Exactly. Unfortunately those three stations mentioned lack what Chadstone has: a growing employment cluster responsible for employing thousands upon thousands of people. It's only going to continue growing with more office towers coming and Vicinity Centre's have signaled they want apartments too. As this city gets more and more dense branch lines are just an obvious thing that will be needed for employment clusters.


Exactly what relevance to a mythical cluster at Chaddy would be to Rowville?

cheers
John
justarider
A tram line to Rowville would run directly past Chaddy allowing people from Rowville to work or shop at Chadstone.

Ross
"Rossco T"

You "might" be able to justify Chaddy as an attraction for visitors from CBD  or thereabouts,  but $squillions for Rowville: really?
Once Monash relevance for the tram disappeared due to the SRL alternative, then Rowville direct path to CBD is really exposed as not that important.

cheers
John
  Adogs Chief Train Controller

Just remember that Gandel (one of Australia's richest men and owner of Chaddy) actively opposes any rail access to Chadstone whatsoever, and will fight to stop anything going near it.  I think he thinks trains attract poor people.  Same thing happened for a long time with Westfield.
  AheadMatthewawsome Junior Train Controller

Location: Opening Train Lines
EVERYONE is forgetting once again what I said before. Are you all going willy nilly and allow raising the dead. Then go and tut tut on me when I did the same thing, and scream at me, and pull me around to make a new thread. Why is the same thing not happening now?
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
EVERYONE is forgetting once again what I said before. Are you all going willy nilly and allow raising the dead. Then go and tut tut on me when I did the same thing, and scream at me, and pull me around to make a new thread. Why is the same thing not happening now?
AheadMatthewawsome
Double Standards, thats why
  Lockie91 Chief Train Controller

Just remember that Gandel (one of Australia's richest men and owner of Chaddy) actively opposes any rail access to Chadstone whatsoever, and will fight to stop anything going near it.  I think he thinks trains attract poor people.  Same thing happened for a long time with Westfield.
Adogs
That was his and Chddy's previous stance some time ago. Now that Chadstone has a hotel and they are actively pushing for more office space they have come to there senses. Car Parking may be king for the shopper wanting to buy goods, but its not for the office worker. Good Transport links are key for tempting offices out of the city and into the burbs, these being why places like Box Hill have taken off. All this plays into where offices lease space; good facilities and links tempt workers to work for that company.

Heavy Rail will not be viable unless Gandel gets approval to build a 100 story office block. Light Rail from Caulfield to Monash via Chadstone is a sensible idea. This allows those in the Monash area to connect to Chadstone, Caulfield adds Frankston and City as catchment areas. Connect the Light Rail to SRL all of a sudden half of Melbourne can get to Chadstone in under an hour.

This is the same for Rowville, the idea of heavy rail was not transport orientated. It was a line on a map that DOT had to build because governments were to scared to scratch it. Biz case after Biz case said that a billions wasn't feasible for such a small catchment area. Not a lot of the commuters in the Rowville catchment area head to the CBD, as an area that never had heavy rail, commuters travel more radially to other suburbs. A simple extension from Monash to Rowville is all the suburb needs. City bound commuters can interchange at Clayton or Glen Waverley.
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

Was speaking in the 50 LXR thread, but thought this was more appropriate for here.

Two lines, using similar technology to the DLR (similar technology to perhaps the SRL, but I'd look to use existing right of way or elevated where possible).



Red Line (East-West): Caulfield to Ferntree Gully Station via Chadstone SC, Huntingdale Station, Waverley Gardens, Rowville, Knox City

Blue Line(North-South): Camberwell to Southland via Ashburton, Chadstone SC, Oakleigh Station

Not sure on station spacing, you can see that the old Alamein Line has closer spacing than the other sections where I've followed major land marks or major intersections.

A close up on the Alamein Line:



I've added East Camberwell, moved Willison South, moved Burwood closer to Toorak Rd, added a new station between new Burwood and Ashburton and added a station north of the Malvern Valley Golf Course.
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
Bulldoze Willison and move Riversdale south of the current tram square. East Camberwell is a complete was of space, it doesn't need to connect with the Alamein line, or even Lilydale and Belgrave for that matter.
  TrackRailroad Train Controller

Location: Frankston Line
Bulldoze Willison and move Riversdale south of the current tram square. East Camberwell is a complete was of space, it doesn't need to connect with the Alamein line, or even Lilydale and Belgrave for that matter.
Heihachi_73
I agree with demolition of Willison and relocating Riversdale Station south to just of Riversdale Road, basically rationalising two train stations into one to reduce unnecessary rail stations.

I don't agree with demolition of East Camberwell, it serves the local residential area of Camberwell, reducing pressure on Camberwell Station and some local schools are within walking distance of the stations. I do not use the station reguarly and I don't live in the area to comment in detail, but there seems to be sufficient distance between East Camberwell and Camberwell and Canterbury and sufficient residential development surrounding it to warrant keeping it.
  historian Deputy Commissioner

Bulldoze Willison and move Riversdale south of the current tram square.
Heihachi_73


I think you can be very confident that Riversdale will never be moved south of Riversdale Road.

It's a 302 metre radius curve between the road and Willison station.

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