Rail group to push for services

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 28 Jul 2020 13:16
  NSWGR8022 Deputy Commissioner

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech
Calls for extension of Marybrough Passenger services to Dunolly.

What would need to be considered?
  • Rolling Stock
  • Track Condition
  • Platform and general Station status at Dunolly
  • Signalling
  • timetabling
  • Myki extension to Dunolly


Could existing rolling stock be used to extend to Dunolly and if it was what is the expected travel time between Maryborough and Dunolly?

Are there any intermediate stations between Maryborough and Dunolly?

Rail group to push for services

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  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
BET BET is the only location I can find between Maryborough and Dunolly.

  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
Still no suburban service to Clunes Evil or Very Mad
  raudteejaam Train Controller

That's a pretty loose interpretation of the content of that article.

I acknowledge that the FOMRL have rhetorically asked about extending the line to Dunolly - but it's not exactly high on their list.

I think any extension of the line would be better to go to St Arnaud at least.
  splod Junior Train Controller

Location: Darwin, NT
...
I think any extension of the line would be better to go to St Arnaud at least.
Except that the line Dunolly - St Arnaud is standard gauge.  The V/Line Maryborough service can be extended to Dunolly by virtue of that section being dual gauge.

If the Maryborough to Gheringhap dual-gauging is ever completed, however, it would theoretically be possible to run a service St Arnaud - Geelong on the standard gauge, connecting to the more direct V/line broad gauge services to Southern Cross at Ballarat.  The commercial viability of such a service is quite another matter.
  raudteejaam Train Controller

Ah true. I had not considered gauge.
  NSWGR8022 Deputy Commissioner

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech
That's a pretty loose interpretation of the content of that article.

I acknowledge that the FOMRL have rhetorically asked about extending the line to Dunolly - but it's not exactly high on their list.

I think any extension of the line would be better to go to St Arnaud at least.
raudteejaam

Why St Arnaud?
  NSWGR8022 Deputy Commissioner

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech

If the Maryborough to Gheringhap dual-gauging is ever completed, however, it would theoretically be possible to run a service St Arnaud - Geelong on the standard gauge, connecting to the more direct V/line broad gauge services to Southern Cross at Ballarat.  The commercial viability of such a service is quite another matter.
splod

a thought could be an extension of the Maryborough service to Castlemaine and a new service from Geelong to St Arnaud.
  justarider Deputy Commissioner

Location: Free at last, free at last

If the Maryborough to Gheringhap dual-gauging is ever completed, however, it would theoretically be possible to run a service St Arnaud - Geelong on the standard gauge, connecting to the more direct V/line broad gauge services to Southern Cross at Ballarat.  The commercial viability of such a service is quite another matter.
--splod

a thought could be an extension of the Maryborough service to Castlemaine and a new service from Geelong to St Arnaud.
NSWGR8022
@The Vinelander
Mike where are you?
Interlopers are taking over your territory.
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.

If the Maryborough to Gheringhap dual-gauging is ever completed, however, it would theoretically be possible to run a service St Arnaud - Geelong on the standard gauge, connecting to the more direct V/line broad gauge services to Southern Cross at Ballarat.  The commercial viability of such a service is quite another matter.
a thought could be an extension of the Maryborough service to Castlemaine and a new service from Geelong to St Arnaud.

@"The Vinelander,"
Mike where are you?
Interlopers are taking over your territory.
justarider
Think ZH needs to come out of hibernation...Rolling Eyes

BigShunter.
  raudteejaam Train Controller

That's a pretty loose interpretation of the content of that article.

I acknowledge that the FOMRL have rhetorically asked about extending the line to Dunolly - but it's not exactly high on their list.

I think any extension of the line would be better to go to St Arnaud at least.

Why St Arnaud?
NSWGR8022

It's twice as big as Dunolly population wise, more of a regional centre than small town. It's also handily located at the junction for many major highways, so connecting coach services could go in a myriad of different directions.

It's a moot point as the gauge rules it out - but assuming gauge wasn't a problem, St Arnaud would be a more logical terminus for my thinking than Dunolly.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Just for some clarity and context, these figures are fairly relevant.

Maryborough             - Population 7,921      - 224km from Melbourne
Dunolly                     - Population 893         - 246km from Melbourne
St Arnaud                  - Population 2,193      - 299km from Melbourne
Donald                      - Population 1,498      - 337km from Melbourne
Birchip                      - Population 700        - 389km from Melbourne
Ouyen                      - Population 1,045      - 508km from Melbourne
Mildura (urban area)   - Population 51,903     - 609km from Melbourne

All population figures are from the 2016 ABS Census, Km figures are sourced from Vicsig and are measured via Bacchus Marsh.

-- -- --

Based on that alone, an extension from Maryborough to Dunolly is not justifiable. Neither for that matter is St Arnaud on it's own.

The only extension that I can see as justifiable on that line, would be to Donald, with intermediate stations at Dunolly and St Arnaud being re-opened. This would provide an additional catchment area of 4,500 people, or more than 50% of the current Maryborough line. Of course this would require the North Geelong to Maryborough line via Ballarat to be gauge converted and for rolling stock to be acquired, neither of which is likely any time soon.

Of course, I am aware that raw population figures alone don't equal prospective passenger numbers, but without a more detailed study, that is all we have to go on for now.
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
The daily bus to Ballarat commences at Donald, so if a service is to be extended, Donald would be the logical starting place for an improved service.  
But ... in the words of Darryl Kerrigan - tell them they are dreaming.  A bus doesn't fill (or even half fill!) between Donald & Maryborough, so there is no way the train will be extended.
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
Just for some clarity and context, these figures are fairly relevant.

Maryborough             - Population 7,921      - 224km from Melbourne
Dunolly                     - Population 893         - 246km from Melbourne
St Arnaud                  - Population 2,193      - 299km from Melbourne
Donald                      - Population 1,498      - 337km from Melbourne
Birchip                      - Population 700        - 389km from Melbourne
Ouyen                      - Population 1,045      - 508km from Melbourne
Mildura (urban area)   - Population 51,903     - 609km from Melbourne

All population figures are from the 2016 ABS Census, Km figures are sourced from Vicsig and are measured via Bacchus Marsh.

-- -- --

Based on that alone, an extension from Maryborough to Dunolly is not justifiable. Neither for that matter is St Arnaud on it's own.

The only extension that I can see as justifiable on that line, would be to Donald, with intermediate stations at Dunolly and St Arnaud being re-opened. This would provide an additional catchment area of 4,500 people, or more than 50% of the current Maryborough line. Of course this would require the North Geelong to Maryborough line via Ballarat to be gauge converted and for rolling stock to be acquired, neither of which is likely any time soon.

Of course, I am aware that raw population figures alone don't equal prospective passenger numbers, but without a more detailed study, that is all we have to go on for now.
Gman_86
If you count the actual passenger numbers on a Maryborough train to begin with it raises questions.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Just for some clarity and context, these figures are fairly relevant.

Maryborough             - Population 7,921      - 224km from Melbourne
Dunolly                     - Population 893         - 246km from Melbourne
St Arnaud                  - Population 2,193      - 299km from Melbourne
Donald                      - Population 1,498      - 337km from Melbourne
Birchip                      - Population 700        - 389km from Melbourne
Ouyen                      - Population 1,045      - 508km from Melbourne
Mildura (urban area)   - Population 51,903     - 609km from Melbourne

All population figures are from the 2016 ABS Census, Km figures are sourced from Vicsig and are measured via Bacchus Marsh.

-- -- --

Based on that alone, an extension from Maryborough to Dunolly is not justifiable. Neither for that matter is St Arnaud on it's own.

The only extension that I can see as justifiable on that line, would be to Donald, with intermediate stations at Dunolly and St Arnaud being re-opened. This would provide an additional catchment area of 4,500 people, or more than 50% of the current Maryborough line. Of course this would require the North Geelong to Maryborough line via Ballarat to be gauge converted and for rolling stock to be acquired, neither of which is likely any time soon.

Of course, I am aware that raw population figures alone don't equal prospective passenger numbers, but without a more detailed study, that is all we have to go on for now.
If you count the actual passenger numbers on a Maryborough train to begin with it raises questions.
speedemon08
I don't disagree. All I am saying is that IF you were to extend the Maryborough train anywhere along that line, Donald seems the most likely to be worthwhile.

That doesn't mean it is likely, just more likely than Dunolly or St Arnaud on their own.

That said, if the Maryborough train was opened up to a larger catchment of prospective passengers (by extending to Donald), one may deduce that this could be a way of improving the passenger numbers of this service.
  62440 Chief Commissioner

Bear in mind if you are using dual gauge with BG/SG, the speed limit is 80 km/h at best which clobbers the viability. I'm afraid I'm with Darryl on this one
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

Calls for extension of Marybrough Passenger services to Dunolly.

What would need to be considered?
  • Rolling Stock
  • Track Condition
  • Platform and general Station status at Dunolly
  • Signalling
  • timetabling
  • Myki extension to Dunolly


Could existing rolling stock be used to extend to Dunolly and if it was what is the expected travel time between Maryborough and Dunolly?

Are there any intermediate stations between Maryborough and Dunolly?

Rail group to push for services
NSWGR8022
You need people to porvide BUMS on seats.
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
Bear in mind if you are using dual gauge with BG/SG, the speed limit is 80 km/h at best which clobbers the viability. I'm afraid I'm with Darryl on this one
62440
Bzzzzz.....!

Incorrect, over in the Murray Basin Standardisation thread, the MikeLander Express said: I believe approval has been given for dual-guage trains between Maryborough & Ballarat, when that eventually occurs to travel up to 100Km/h.

Not that we need to get our Knickers in a Knot, don't think anything will be happening in the next few months. Hope fully the gauge has been sorted when and if...Idea

BigShunter.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

1. For the umpteenth time VLP have proposed DMU will be allowed 100kmh on broad gauge tarck of any dual gauge track between Ballarat and Maryborough.

2. Current  State Government has committed to extend existing Maryborough service to Dunolly (11/18 election), but obviously still moving with all the speed of a crippled snail. Few lx to put booms, about 20 minute run time can be done with am Up and PM Down with VL set stabled overnight at Dunolly no doubt in a VLP "Gold Plated" compound. Doesnt take any more rollingstock.

3. Ballarat to Maryborough doesn't need to be dual gauge - waste of money , just standard gauge, and instead standardize Ballarat - Ararat allowing sg VL sets to run to both Horsham and Hamilton.

4. If pax trains ever run beyond Dunolly that would be token service to Donald, and shuttles Ballarat - Maryborough - Bendigo via Inglewood. Could be done today as bg, and in future also as sg .
  Rossco T Chief Train Controller

Location: Camberwell, Victoria
The daily bus to Ballarat commences at Donald, so if a service is to be extended, Donald would be the logical starting place for an improved service.  
But ... in the words of Darryl Kerrigan - tell them they are dreaming.  A bus doesn't fill (or even half fill!) between Donald & Maryborough, so there is no way the train will be extended.
Donald

Well never say never...

Here is the text from a press release from the Government in the leadup to the 2018 State election.

Provide for the future uplift of passenger services including a fifth daily V/Line service to Ararat, pave the way for additional services to Maryborough and retain the dual-gauge connection between Maryborough and Dunolly to allow future passenger rail to Dunolly
Jacinta Allan Media Release 27/06/18

And here is the relevant extract from the Liberal Opposition's transport policy "Get Victoria Moving" in the leadup to that election.

Returning passenger rail to Donald

A Liberal Nationals Government will extend V/Line passenger services on the Maryborough line with stops at Dunolly, St Arnaud and terminating at Donald in Victoria’s north-west.

As part of the upgrade, railway stations will be upgraded at St Arnaud, Dunolly and Donald, as well as the upgrading of a number of level crossings on the Mildura line, enabling continuous running of higher speed passenger trains.

More services will operate each weekday, with two return services operating on weekends and existing VLocity trains to be gauge converted to operate the standard gauge service.

Residents in the towns of Dunolly, St Arnaud and Donald have been without rail services for over 20 years.

People wanting to attend work or vital medical appointments in larger cities are forced to use uncomfortable, slow bus services to get into Maryborough or Ballarat and then connect onto a V/Line service if they need to get to Melbourne.
2018 Liberal Opposition Transport Policy "Get Victoria Moving"

Now obviously, the Liberal opposition went on to lose that election.  However with the current Government's standing significantly degraded due to Coronavirus, who is to say that the opposition would not take a similar policy to the next election in 2022?

Mind you who knows how they intended to address the gauge issue (or if they even realised a change of gauge would be required), but that's another matter.

Ross
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia

3. Ballarat to Maryborough doesn't need to be dual gauge - waste of money , just standard gauge, and instead standardize Ballarat - Ararat allowing sg VL sets to run to both Horsham and Hamilton.
kuldalai

This would have the potential of running the overland once again via Ballarat for connecting services between BG and SG.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

......................................................................

3. Ballarat to Maryborough doesn't need to be dual gauge - waste of money , just standard gauge, and instead standardize Ballarat - Ararat allowing sg VL sets to run to both Horsham and Hamilton.

............................................................................................
kuldalai


Unfortunately, possibly stymied by the new MBRP business case.
  justarider Deputy Commissioner

Location: Free at last, free at last

3. Ballarat to Maryborough doesn't need to be dual gauge - waste of money , just standard gauge, and instead standardize Ballarat - Ararat allowing sg VL sets to run to both Horsham and Hamilton.
--kuldalai

This would have the potential of running the overland once again via Ballarat for connecting services between BG and SG.
bevans
It never ceases to amaze the dumb ideas that RP elicits. I know I'm bad, but these two !!!

The track from Ballarat to Melbourne is BG.

So... for some SG fantasy upgrade on the Maryborough and Ararat stubs, you're going to condemn all pax to a train change at Ballarat.

Even Horsham, Hamilton , gets no benefit.
They could easy be dealt with by a shuttle between the two on SG, with change at Ararat for the run Up.
For them, they must do a change somewhere, so why stuff up everybody else.
Overland falls into the same.

Until such time as Ballarat goes SG (lha ha ha Laughing), talk of SG for passenger trains anywhere near there is total nonsense.

cheers
John
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Happens 22 times a day at Frankston (Stony Point). 2 x SG sprinters could be used. The trade-off being 3 return trips a day. The original proposal was to save the DG cost and to avoid the 80 km/h restriction, which, the lifting of, is yet to be documented.

Geelong - Ballarat, if ever although more value than Dunolly, would be SG.
  NSWGR8022 Deputy Commissioner

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech
Happens 22 times a day at Frankston (Stony Point). 2 x SG sprinters could be used. The trade-off being 3 return trips a day. The original proposal was to save the DG cost and to avoid the 80 km/h restriction, which, the lifting of, is yet to be documented.

Geelong - Ballarat, if ever although more value than Dunolly, would be SG.
kitchgp

Would you consider a second track on the Ballarat to Gheringhap Line with SG and BG separated the idea of the overland being back via Ballarat would capture more customers potentially with an ability to change at Ballarat for points west to Adelaide. Customers for the western suburbs of Melbourne could change at Ballarat for higher speed VELOCITY services.

Extend VELOCITY services from Ballarat to Horsham on the SG via Ararat.

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