South Coast Railway Improvements

 
  G Train Locomotive Driver

Some interesting improvements to the non electrified section of the South Coast Railway Line between Kiama & Bomaderry (north bank of the Shoalhaven River Nowra) announced on WIN Local TV News & the Illawarra Mercury.
https://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/6860892/the-4km-of-rail-line-that-could-double-trains-between-kiama-and-bomaderry/

The line was upgraded last year to increase its axle loading. Quad 82’s now seem fairly regular on the freight services.

The 4km crossing loop at Toolijooa should allow for appropriately scheduled running crosses.

I’m wondering how the extra platform at Bomaderry will be accommodated. A new dock or complete rebuild of the station, perhaps into island configuration with yard modifications? I believe the existing cramped yard is still used at times for marshalling the freight trains that proceed further along the industrial branch. Perhaps someone can confirm if this occurs.

State local member Gareth Ward also mentioned hybrid trains will ultimately replace the Endeavour 2 car diesels, running through to Sydney once more.

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  M636C Minister for Railways

"State local member Gareth Ward also mentioned hybrid trains will ultimately replace the Endeavour 2 car diesels, running through to Sydney once more."
This is interesting and could well be applied on the Main South to Goulburn. The new sets will be three car sets and will be able to accelerate faster under the wires.

Peter
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
Just electrify the whole line, it will save time and money in the long term future
If they can set aside funds for this upgrade then why can't funds go towards electrification?
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Just electrify the whole line, it will save time and money in the long term future
If they can set aside funds for this upgrade then why can't funds go towards electrification?
"DCook"


Cost would be in the order of $75m to $100m, far cheaper to hang a few gensets under the floor boards and a pano on the roof of an DEMU as per Adelaide 3000/3100 class design intent.

Battery technology may also in the future prevent the need for the diesel with the train recharging at the stations with a short run of OH on the current unwired section.

Either way running a 8/10 car spark to Bomaderry is I think not a good use of tax payers money.


"I’m wondering how the extra platform at Bomaderry will be accommodated. A new dock or complete rebuild of the station, perhaps into island configuration with yard modifications? I believe the existing cramped yard is still used at times for marshalling the freight trains that proceed further along the industrial branch. Perhaps someone can confirm if this occurs."

I assume you mean for two separate trains to be on the platform at once, cheapest maybe to simply extend the platform nth and do a Cronulla.

The industrial branch, branches off prior to the station. Google Sat nicely shows a 500m grain train in the yard. So looking at the track layout doesn't seem to help with the need to use the platform road for run around (dating back to loco hauled back I'm sure). I'm sure it wouldn't take much to enable the platform road to be removed from the freight yard and at the same time not be bi-sected by the industrial branch.

The storage loops past the plant seem also unnecessary short at around 400 - 450m, but at the same time could be extended if needed.
  ANR Deputy Commissioner

Use the CAF XPT replacements and interurban trains, and look for a home grown solution to country services e.g. more Xplorers.
  Transtopic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Use the CAF XPT replacements and interurban trains, and look for a home grown solution to country services e.g. more Xplorers.
ANR
The new CAF bi-mode Regional trains are replacements for XPTs, Xplorers and Endeavours for all regional country and interstate services.  No need for more Xplorers, although some of the existing fleet could be used to provide additional services until they are retired and replaced.

It makes perfect sense to utilise the short consist CAFs for through services to Central from the South Coast, Southern Highlands and even the Bathurst Bullet services, until electrification is extended which is the long term goal.  The current upgrading of the T4 Illawarra Line, including new crossovers at Erskineville to allow direct access from the Illawarra Local via the Illawarra Dive to Sydney Terminal will allow for the additional direct South Coast and Southern Highlands services.
  apw5910 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Location: Location.
Back in primary school, we learnt that the Illawarra district went from Sydney to the Shoalhaven River. So to call it the South Coast Railway is a bit of a misnomer, since it doesn't even get there!
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

ANR, the CAF's are not an interurban train. They don't have the capacity to do interurban runs. What I do see is that the Endeavours could continue to provide Bomaderry services and possibly add lithgow to Bathurst / Orange shuttles in addition to the Bullets. Xplorers could do daily Griffith services and possibly a daily Parkes service.
  WimbledonW Train Controller

Location: Sydney

I’m wondering how the extra platform at Bomaderry will be accommodated. A new dock or complete rebuild of the station, perhaps into island configuration with yard modifications? I believe the existing cramped yard is still used at times for marshalling the freight trains that proceed further along the industrial branch. Perhaps someone can confirm if this occurs.
G Train
For diagram of Bomaderry, see: https://www.sa-trackandsignal.net/Pdf%20files/Sydney/RC2422.pdf
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
ANR, the CAF's are not an interurban train. They don't have the capacity to do interurban runs. What I do see is that the Endeavours could continue to provide Bomaderry services and possibly add lithgow to Bathurst / Orange shuttles in addition to the Bullets. Xplorers could do daily Griffith services and possibly a daily Parkes service.
"simstrain"


2 x 2 car Endeavors will nicely service the South Coast line for another 10 years or more, no need for complex operations with hybrids moving small numbers. At best you may need to slot in a B car on one or both sets. Then when the Endeavors are due for retirement then time to look for the best suited technology at the time based on ridership.

Hybrids are better suited to Bathurst Bullet operations when most of the run is under the wire and to be honest the Bathurst Bullet and Dubbo services should be merged into the same all Sydney - Dubbo services.

The South Main / Canberra / Griffith could do with a major upgrade in rolling stock numbers to enable
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

ANR, the CAF's are not an interurban train. They don't have the capacity to do interurban runs. What I do see is that the Endeavours could continue to provide Bomaderry services and possibly add lithgow to Bathurst / Orange shuttles in addition to the Bullets. Xplorers could do daily Griffith services and possibly a daily Parkes service.


2 x 2 car Endeavors will nicely service the South Coast line for another 10 years or more, no need for complex operations with hybrids moving small numbers. At best you may need to slot in a B car on one or both sets. Then when the Endeavors are due for retirement then time to look for the best suited technology at the time based on ridership.

Hybrids are better suited to Bathurst Bullet operations when most of the run is under the wire and to be honest the Bathurst Bullet and Dubbo services should be merged into the same all Sydney - Dubbo services.

The South Main / Canberra / Griffith could do with a major upgrade in rolling stock numbers to enable
RTT_Rules
Once the CAF trains arrive the Endevours/Xplorers/XPT's will be gone.
  Transtopic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Once the CAF trains arrive the Endevours/Xplorers/XPT's will be gone.
nswtrains
That's true.  I haven't been able to determine whether the number of new regional trains will allow for the provision of additional services once all of the existing fleet of Endeavours/Xplorers/XPT's has been retired.  If so, there would be no need to keep the existing fleet in service, which seems to be the most likely scenario.

From my understanding, the new regional train fleet will comprise 9x3 car short regional trains to replace the Endeavours; 10x4 car long regional trains to replace the Xplorers and 10x5 car intercity regional trains to replace the XPT's - a total of 117 cars.  The long regional and intercity regional trains will include buffet cars.  All of course will be bi-mode operation and probably interchangeable between the class of train.

That suggests to me that the 9 short regional trains to replace the Endeavours will effectively become an extension of the intercity network for through running to/from Central for the non-electrified sections of the South Coast, Southern Highlands and Western Lines from Bomaderry, Goulburn and Bathurst respectively until full electrification is extended in the future, when they can then be replaced by the New Intercity Fleet (D sets) or its future equivalent.

I'd expect the long regional trains to provide services to Canberra, Griffith, Dubbo, Broken Hill, Moree and Armidale and the intercity regional trains to Melbourne, Brisbane and the NSW North Coast.  Frequencies are yet to be determined.
  a6et Minister for Railways

Once the CAF trains arrive the Endevours/Xplorers/XPT's will be gone.
That's true.  I haven't been able to determine whether the number of new regional trains will allow for the provision of additional services once all of the existing fleet of Endeavours/Xplorers/XPT's has been retired.  If so, there would be no need to keep the existing fleet in service, which seems to be the most likely scenario.

From my understanding, the new regional train fleet will comprise 9x3 car short regional trains to replace the Endeavours; 10x4 car long regional trains to replace the Xplorers and 10x5 car intercity regional trains to replace the XPT's - a total of 117 cars.  The long regional and intercity regional trains will include buffet cars.  All of course will be bi-mode operation and probably interchangeable between the class of train.

That suggests to me that the 9 short regional trains to replace the Endeavours will effectively become an extension of the intercity network for through running to/from Central for the non-electrified sections of the South Coast, Southern Highlands and Western Lines from Bomaderry, Goulburn and Bathurst respectively until full electrification is extended in the future, when they can then be replaced by the New Intercity Fleet (D sets) or its future equivalent.

I'd expect the long regional trains to provide services to Canberra, Griffith, Dubbo, Broken Hill, Moree and Armidale and the intercity regional trains to Melbourne, Brisbane and the NSW North Coast.  Frequencies are yet to be determined.
Transtopic
What is proposed for the Hunter line with the current 2 car sets doing ok, although in the two peak hour times, its often a tight squeeze and standing room only, on those services, moreso the morning up services.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

Once the CAF trains arrive the Endevours/Xplorers/XPT's will be gone.
That's true.  I haven't been able to determine whether the number of new regional trains will allow for the provision of additional services once all of the existing fleet of Endeavours/Xplorers/XPT's has been retired.  If so, there would be no need to keep the existing fleet in service, which seems to be the most likely scenario.

From my understanding, the new regional train fleet will comprise 9x3 car short regional trains to replace the Endeavours; 10x4 car long regional trains to replace the Xplorers and 10x5 car intercity regional trains to replace the XPT's - a total of 117 cars.  The long regional and intercity regional trains will include buffet cars.  All of course will be bi-mode operation and probably interchangeable between the class of train.

That suggests to me that the 9 short regional trains to replace the Endeavours will effectively become an extension of the intercity network for through running to/from Central for the non-electrified sections of the South Coast, Southern Highlands and Western Lines from Bomaderry, Goulburn and Bathurst respectively until full electrification is extended in the future, when they can then be replaced by the New Intercity Fleet (D sets) or its future equivalent.

I'd expect the long regional trains to provide services to Canberra, Griffith, Dubbo, Broken Hill, Moree and Armidale and the intercity regional trains to Melbourne, Brisbane and the NSW North Coast.  Frequencies are yet to be determined.
What is proposed for the Hunter line with the current 2 car sets doing ok, although in the two peak hour times, its often a tight squeeze and standing room only, on those services, moreso the morning up services.
a6et
Hunters may stay as they are not that old. Maybe the CAF consortium will service them?
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

From my understanding there will be 10 x 6 car trains and 19 x 3 car trains in the new fleet. There are no 4 or 5 car sets in this fleet as far as I am aware and the total of 117 carriages is 6 more then the combined XPT, Xplorer and Endeavour fleet. However it isn't the amount of carriages that matters it is the amount of trains that matters.

The 10 x 6 car trains barely covers the north coast and Melbourne XPT's and it certainly doesn't allow for any maintenance time especially if it has to travel up to Dubbo to do so.

There are currently 14 x 2 car endeavours and if you cover all of those with 3 car set trains then that leaves only 5 units for Canberra, Griffith, Broken Hill, Dubbo, Armidale and Moree trains. These numbers just don't stack up to being able to cover all the trains needed. Especially as they are setup as power car, trailer, power car and so 2 car operation is a no go.

The joker in the mix is the 7 x hunter rail cars. Are they enough to cover the hunter line completely?

As per wikiepedia there will be 10 x 6 car sets for long distance services. 9 x short regional and 10 x long regional.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
From my understanding there will be 10 x 6 car trains and 19 x 3 car trains in the new fleet. There are no 4 or 5 car sets in this fleet as far as I am aware and the total of 117 carriages is 6 more then the combined XPT, Xplorer and Endeavour fleet. However it isn't the amount of carriages that matters it is the amount of trains that matters.

The 10 x 6 car trains barely covers the north coast and Melbourne XPT's and it certainly doesn't allow for any maintenance time especially if it has to travel up to Dubbo to do so.

There are currently 14 x 2 car endeavours and if you cover all of those with 3 car set trains then that leaves only 5 units for Canberra, Griffith, Broken Hill, Dubbo, Armidale and Moree trains. These numbers just don't stack up to being able to cover all the trains needed. Especially as they are setup as power car, trailer, power car and so 2 car operation is a no go.

The joker in the mix is the 7 x hunter rail cars. Are they enough to cover the hunter line completely?

As per wikiepedia there will be 10 x 6 car sets for long distance services. 9 x short regional and 10 x long regional.
simstrain
If there is Endeavor cars being used in the hunter now, then no, the Hunter cars are not enough.

I still don't see why they would remove the XPL/END fleet, its not even 30 years old. I haven't seen (don't read that to be doesn't exist) any communication they are to be removed apart from here. Govt PR's state XPT.

It would make sense to retain the END/XPL cars and use for areas such as the Hunter and South Coast.
  NSWRcars Assistant Commissioner

I still don't see why they would remove the XPL/END fleet, its not even 30 years old. I haven't seen (don't read that to be doesn't exist) any communication they are to be removed apart from here. Govt PR's state XPT.
RTT_Rules
For the umpteenth time:
"The NSW Government is replacing the ageing NSW regional rail fleet of XPT, XPLORER and Endeavour trains"
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

I still don't see why they would remove the XPL/END fleet, its not even 30 years old. I haven't seen (don't read that to be doesn't exist) any communication they are to be removed apart from here. Govt PR's state XPT.
For the umpteenth time:
"The NSW Government is replacing the ageing NSW regional rail fleet of XPT, XPLORER and Endeavour trains"
NSWRcars
This might be the official word but I don't believe they have enough trains to actually cover all XPT, Xplorer and Endeavour trains unless they are planning to run overhead to Bomaderry and Bathurst
  Transtopic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Sydney
From my understanding there will be 10 x 6 car trains and 19 x 3 car trains in the new fleet. There are no 4 or 5 car sets in this fleet as far as I am aware and the total of 117 carriages is 6 more then the combined XPT, Xplorer and Endeavour fleet. However it isn't the amount of carriages that matters it is the amount of trains that matters.

The 10 x 6 car trains barely covers the north coast and Melbourne XPT's and it certainly doesn't allow for any maintenance time especially if it has to travel up to Dubbo to do so.

There are currently 14 x 2 car endeavours and if you cover all of those with 3 car set trains then that leaves only 5 units for Canberra, Griffith, Broken Hill, Dubbo, Armidale and Moree trains. These numbers just don't stack up to being able to cover all the trains needed. Especially as they are setup as power car, trailer, power car and so 2 car operation is a no go.

The joker in the mix is the 7 x hunter rail cars. Are they enough to cover the hunter line completely?

As per wikiepedia there will be 10 x 6 car sets for long distance services. 9 x short regional and 10 x long regional.
simstrain
Thankyou sims for correcting me.  What has confused me is the designation of the regional intercity sets, which I interpreted to be the XPT replacements, but in fact they are the Endeavour replacements, being the 10 x 3 car sets, which are all Economy 2 + 2 seating without buffet facilities.  The 9 x 3 car short regional sets and 10 x 6 car long regional sets  are the Xplorer and XPT replacements respectively, with both classes having a mix of Economy 2 + 2 and Premium 2 + 1 seating as well as buffet facilities.  The FAQ on the TfNSW website clarifies this.

https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/system/files/media/documents/2020/FAQ-Regional-Rail-June-WCA.pdf

The suggestion I made with regard to the allocation of fleet class in my previous post is still valid.  The 10 regional "intercity" sets, replacing the Endeavours, will cover the extended intercity network beyond the wires providing through services to Bomaderry, Goulburn and Bathurst.  Whether they will also continue on the Hunter Line is unknown at this stage.

The 9 short regional sets will most likely cover Canberra, Griffith, Dubbo, Broken Hill, Armidale and Moree.  The Griffith and Broken Hill services will no doubt continue to alternate with the same sets, with a possible increase to 3 services a week, while the North West Armidale/Moree services will be operated with 2 x 3 car sets, splitting at Werris Creek as they currently operate.

The Dubbo service will depend upon whether an additional early morning departure from Dubbo is introduced.  From my observation, the current daily XPT service generally consists of 4 passenger cars.  A daily long regional 6 car set would seem to be excessive and a daily short regional 3 car set not enough compared with the current service.  It would make more sense to have a twice daily service, morning and afternoon, using 3 car short regional sets for each service.  That would roughly equate to a 50% increase in daily capacity.

The 10 long distance regional sets replacing the XPT services would service Melbourne, Brisbane and the NSW North Coast.  Hopefully when Brisbane's Cross River Rail Link is completed, the Brisbane service will operate at more civilised hours with a possible extension of a North Coast service to provide a morning and evening service similar to Melbourne.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
I still don't see why they would remove the XPL/END fleet, its not even 30 years old. I haven't seen (don't read that to be doesn't exist) any communication they are to be removed apart from here. Govt PR's state XPT.
For the umpteenth time:
"The NSW Government is replacing the ageing NSW regional rail fleet of XPT, XPLORER and Endeavour trains"
This might be the official word but I don't believe they have enough trains to actually cover all XPT, Xplorer and Endeavour trains unless they are planning to run overhead to Bomaderry and Bathurst
simstrain
Thanks for NSWRcars for that info, very easy to find when I put that in Google.

Sim's, yes this also my point. They will replace them, but when? Unless there are service cuts it doesn't appear they can do so.

They could always come back with the disclaimer, due to "unprecedented growth, END cars will be kept in operation until additional trains can be ordered and delivered". Leaving a few END cars operating in low profile routes like the south coast and Hunter will not draw too much attention.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

How many Endeavours are actually being used on the hunter line at the moment?
Are the 7 hunter railcars enough to 100% cover the hunter rail line services?

My personal opinion is that while they will have 6 more carriages then the current fleet they won't actually have enough trains to fill all the services currently provided because of the 3 car consists of the new fleet. I feel there will be no choice but to keep the endeavours running on the hunter, bomaderry and southern highlands lines.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Transtopic there is only 9 short distance endeavour replacements. There are currently 14 Endeavour sets at the moment and so I'm not sure how 9 short distance sets are supposed to cover all the services run by 14 Endeavour sets.
  a6et Minister for Railways

From my understanding there will be 10 x 6 car trains and 19 x 3 car trains in the new fleet. There are no 4 or 5 car sets in this fleet as far as I am aware and the total of 117 carriages is 6 more then the combined XPT, Xplorer and Endeavour fleet. However it isn't the amount of carriages that matters it is the amount of trains that matters.

The 10 x 6 car trains barely covers the north coast and Melbourne XPT's and it certainly doesn't allow for any maintenance time especially if it has to travel up to Dubbo to do so.

There are currently 14 x 2 car endeavours and if you cover all of those with 3 car set trains then that leaves only 5 units for Canberra, Griffith, Broken Hill, Dubbo, Armidale and Moree trains. These numbers just don't stack up to being able to cover all the trains needed. Especially as they are setup as power car, trailer, power car and so 2 car operation is a no go.

The joker in the mix is the 7 x hunter rail cars. Are they enough to cover the hunter line completely?

As per wikiepedia there will be 10 x 6 car sets for long distance services. 9 x short regional and 10 x long regional.
simstrain
I picked my wife up last night at Victoria St station, train was running late from NCLE and she said an announcement was made that one of the trains had failed and needed mechanical work, so replacement used. Interestingly this is at a time when the Scone & Dungog services were cancelled and replaced by buses owing to a 5 day track maintenance on the coal road to Moree trains.

With those outer suburban (my term) services replaced by buses, there is still a tightness in the schedules should one set fail while others not in service are undergoing servicing at the BMD centre.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Transtopic there is only 9 short distance endeavour replacements. There are currently 14 Endeavour sets at the moment and so I'm not sure how 9 short distance sets are supposed to cover all the services run by 14 Endeavour sets.
simstrain
Yup, I do not believe the XPL/END fleet will be withdrawn, down sized maybe, but not withdrawn and while they are not end of life you'd be mad not to use them.
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
Transtopic there is only 9 short distance endeavour replacements. There are currently 14 Endeavour sets at the moment and so I'm not sure how 9 short distance sets are supposed to cover all the services run by 14 Endeavour sets.
Yup, I do not believe the XPL/END fleet will be withdrawn, down sized maybe, but not withdrawn and while they are not end of life you'd be mad not to use them.
RTT_Rules
TfNSW have confirmed on many separate occasions that the entire regional fleet (including Endeavours) will be retired and
replaced with the new fleet, I suggest you read up on the official documents issued by TfNSW if you are in doubt of that fact.
Two official sources
https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/projects/current-projects/regional-rail
https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/news-and-events/media-releases/contracts-signed-for-126-billion-regional-rail-fleet

You are incorrect in your statement that there will be 9 trains to replace the Endeavours, there will be 10 long regional trains (XPT replacement), 9 short regional trains (XPL replacement) and 10 short intercity trains (END replacement).

Please read official government documents before stating points to ensure that your information is correct, in this case it is not

Regards, Daniel

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