Caulfield group to become anticlockwise all day

 
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

Once Dandy goes to MM1, then its tracks and FSS platform are available as you suggest. Nice straight run.
Can 6&7 cross  the viaduct to SXS 16 for the maintenance?

In the meantime (ie the anti-clock loopy thing), the crossovers Richmond already there are exactly the problem.
When vline crosses the Sandringham(2), Frankston(2), Dandenong(1 on the down); means a lot of other trains have to wait. Or converse Vline can wait a long time until all clear. Or everybody stop & wait for the flag man to sort it.
justarider

1. VLine is only one train every 1/2 hours, plenty of space on Platforms 6/7 for terminating at Flinders, especially if Caulfield Loop is timetabled to use one platform only.

2. None that I'm aware of, but finding a path in the correct direction for shunting shouldn't be too hard outside of peak once or twice per day. And if they want to spend the money, a bit of junction rationalisation wouldn't go astray either, could add it in.

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  justarider Deputy Commissioner

Location: Free at last, free at last
@John.Z we are at cross edits - see previous page.. Your idea to re-arrange FSS makes sense. That's scary.

cheers
John
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Once Dandy goes to MM1, then its tracks and FSS platform are available as you suggest. Nice straight run.
Can 6&7 cross  the viaduct to SXS 16 for the maintenance?

In the meantime (ie the anti-clock loopy thing), the crossovers Richmond already there are exactly the problem.
When vline crosses the Sandringham(2), Frankston(2), Dandenong(1 on the down); means a lot of other trains have to wait. Or converse Vline can wait a long time until all clear. Or everybody stop & wait for the flag man to sort it.

1. VLine is only one train every 1/2 hours, plenty of space on Platforms 6/7 for terminating at Flinders, especially if Caulfield Loop is timetabled to use one platform only.

2. None that I'm aware of, but finding a path in the correct direction for shunting shouldn't be too hard outside of peak once or twice per day. And if they want to spend the money, a bit of junction rationalisation wouldn't go astray either, could add it in.
John.Z
Platform 7 does not have to be a terminating platform - it can be used as a dedicated V/Line platform for both terminating and through services as it would allow them to wait clear of both the Frankston and Dandenong lines whilst waiting for a path. This has the advantage of reducing delays to those lines.
  NimbleJack Station Master

Over the coming years, most Gippsland services will terminate at Pakenham for a cross-platform interchange with Metro trains. V/Line trains won't really be an issue at Flinders Street.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Rather than have you sit in comfort behind the train that is causing the delay, they have you stand in it whilst it wanders into the city. Interesting concept.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

That would certainly be too stressing for long distance travellers to do on a regular basis.  Even in the worst case that you get caught behind a suburban train at Cardinia Rd. you'll still be able to travel at about the same speed as an SAS.
  NimbleJack Station Master

By mostly restricting V/Line trains to the stretch between Traralgon and Pakenham, you can effectively double the frequency of Gippsland services without spending a penny on extra drivers or rolling stock.

Let me emphasise: this IS going to happen once the new tunnel opens. The only question is how many V/Line trains, if any, will be granted paths between Flinders Street and Pakenham. My money is on Bairnsdale plus a few Traralgon peaks remaining as through-trains.
  Lockie91 Chief Train Controller

By mostly restricting V/Line trains to the stretch between Traralgon and Pakenham, you can effectively double the frequency of Gippsland services without spending a penny on extra drivers or rolling stock.
"NimbleJack"


Any introduction of Metro Services to WV or Fast Rail to Geelong with release dozens of set for use across the V/line network.  

Let me emphasise: this IS going to happen once the new tunnel opens. The only question is how many V/Line trains, if any, will be granted paths between Flinders Street and Pakenham. My money is on Bairnsdale plus a few Traralgon peaks remaining as through-trains.
"NimbleJack"


Let me emphasise, this WONT happen. For two reasons:

1. HCS - Bombarider CityFlo650 is a mixed solution model that can be installed into brownfield sites and work alongside existing infrastructure until the legacy system is decommissioned. The mixed solution allows for trains sets to switch between the current CBTC fixed block and CBTC moving block or HCS. Moving block is only being installed between Watergardens & Dandenong, conventional fixed block signalling will still operate between Sunbury - Watergardens & Dandenong - Pakenham & Cranbourne. This system has been deliberately chosen to allow for mixed traffic, such as freight and regional services. Regional services will run on fixed block from Gippsland until Dandenong where in cab CBTC moving block will take over.

Thats just the minor reason.

2. The major reason this will never happen is how much politics dominate transport planing.

Frankston & Dandenong corridors are prime examples of this. The 'Sandbelt seats' seats along the Frankston like threw out the Brumby government for years of overcrowded services and 'to little, to late' These seats remained ultra marginal after the election and again threw out the liberal Naptime government for promises that were never kept. When the Andrews government promised to fix and upgrade services along the line in 2014 the 'Sandbelt seats' again switched to being marginal labor seats. Its no coincidence that the government has spent more the $2 Billion on level crossing removals and station upgrades on this corridor. The Andrews labor government was rewarded in 2018 with the seats now having decent margins.

Despite the vocal opposition to 'Sky Rail' seats along the Dandenong corridor all received a boost in margins in the 2018 election.

With that in mind, let's have a look at the Gippsland Corridor.

Gembrook - Takes in Officer Station & half the Pakenhan population, Liberal seat since 2010 now on a 1% margin.

Bass - Takes in Pakenham Station and the remainder of Pakenham, Koo Wee Rup all the way down to Cowes and Wonthaggi. Liberal since 2002, suffered a 10% swing in 2018. Now on a 5% margin and within striking distance of the labor party. Surprise that Pakenham is loosing all its level crossings and getting a new station.

Narracan - This is deep liberal territory with the current member on a 15% margin. Cant see him supporting a decrease in Gippsland services.

Morwell - Had been Labor heartland from 1970 until 2006 when the seat was lost to the Nationals. The nationals lost it in 2017 when the member became an independent candidate. The current margin is 3%, another one within reach of the Labor Party, who I'm sure are keen to get it back. I can not see the labor candidate winning if he has to explain to the people of Morwell and Traralgon they have to change trains at Pakenham.

Gippsland South & Gippsland East - deep in the heart of national territory here, both members on margins of more than 30%. Cant see them supporting a decrease in service levels. The locals still have Jeff Kennett etched in their minds.

Gippsland Services will continue to run to Flinders Street for many decades to come for the same reason that Frankston services are still in the city loop. Operational pain in the smeg, but politicly popular.

Lockie
  NimbleJack Station Master

Lockie, thanks for the effort you put into your post.

I don't agree with you that the state Gippsland rail services will have much influence on the fate of electoral seats. The operational benefits of reducing V/Line access to Flinders Street are simply too great to forgo.

What will happen is that extra services will be introduced on the Gippsland corridor. These trains will terminate at Pakenham with a straight cross-platform interchange. Over the following couple of years, more and more services will do the same till only a few make it all the way that the city.

Electrification to Wyndham Vale, let alone Geelong  fast rail, is years away.
  Lockie91 Chief Train Controller

Lockie, thanks for the effort you put into your post.

I don't agree with you that the state Gippsland rail services will have much influence on the fate of electoral seats. The operational benefits of reducing V/Line access to Flinders Street are simply too great to forgo.

What will happen is that extra services will be introduced on the Gippsland corridor. These trains will terminate at Pakenham with a straight cross-platform interchange. Over the following couple of years, more and more services will do the same till only a few make it all the way that the city.

Electrification to Wyndham Vale, let alone Geelong  fast rail, is years away.
"NimbleJack"


The operational benefits are meaningless if you risk your political skin. Again I point to Frankston, services should have been removed from the loop years ago to boost peak capacity on the Frankston & Pakenham lines. 3 Elections have gone by and they still in the loop. The Herald Sun reported before the 2018 election that plans to finally move them out of the loop had been shelved because it was deemed too politicly risky.

Until the line is a total saturation, which it will not be for some time there is no need for any politician to go near it. Even then they are far more likely to let some suffer for the benefit of others or spend billions on a solution that keeps everyone happy.

As for Wyndham Vale & Geelong, the government has a license to spend. The RBA and the feds want the States to spend $40 Billion on infrastructure over the next few years to help pull us out recession. The budget in October this year and again in May 2021 will most likely rain gold.

Lockie
  footscrazy Station Master



The operational benefits are meaningless if you risk your political skin. Again I point to Frankston, services should have been removed from the loop years ago to boost peak capacity on the Frankston & Pakenham lines. 3 Elections have gone by and they still in the loop. The Herald Sun reported before the 2018 election that plans to finally move them out of the loop had been shelved because it was deemed too politicly risky.
Lockie91


Frankston coming out of the loop in December
  Lockie91 Chief Train Controller



The operational benefits are meaningless if you risk your political skin. Again I point to Frankston, services should have been removed from the loop years ago to boost peak capacity on the Frankston & Pakenham lines. 3 Elections have gone by and they still in the loop. The Herald Sun reported before the 2018 election that plans to finally move them out of the loop had been shelved because it was deemed too politicly risky.
Lockie91


Frankston coming out of the loop in December
"footscrazy"


I suspected this to be the case, as the timetable to be introduced in December is the same one that was shelved in 2018.

-Frankston out of the loop and then a small boost & a clean up of peak hour. Streamline the cross city group giving Werribee at 10 minute off peak frequency.
-Dandenong, clean up of the peak. Gains trains paths released by removing Frankston. 10 minute service already runs into the night, cant see many if any additional off peak services.

-Clean up of the Ringwood group, 10 minute inter-peak during the week to match the weekend. Belgrave & Lilydale go to every 20 which is all the track allows for beyond Upper Ferntree Gully.
-Glen Waverley possibly to every 10 minutes inter-peak.
-Streamline of the stopping patterns. Alamain may become every 20 minutes all day to allow Ringwood services to Express to Camberwell.

-Hurstbridge will see a clean up and the addition of a couple of extra peak hour services that are available thanks to the Stage 1 upgrade. Paths are still constrained beyond Greensbrough. Until Stage 2 is complete, the line wont go to 10 minutes.

-Mernda will go to every 10 inter peak. Not a lot of room to add additional peak services until the Hurstbridge line is fixed and some sort of upgrade of Clifton junction is done to squeeze some extra paths out of the flat junction.

- Sunbury, every 10 to Watergardens, 20 to Sunbury. Increased services in the evening shoulder peak every 20 to Sunbury before dropping back to every 30 after 9pm.
- Craigieburn goes to every 10 minutes inter-peak, extra shoulder peak services before dropping back to 30 minutes after 9pm.
- Upfield, 2018 timetable saw Upfield being pulled from the northern loop to free up paths for Sunbury & Craigieburn. This is still a possibility as it would allow for extra Sunbury services. Craigieburn might see a couple, but would still be constrained by Platform 1 at North Melbourne. This also saw Upfield services terminate at Southern Cross Platform 8 & 8S, not sure if we will see that in December. Upfield will get s shot in the arm if it is pulled from the loop. It is possible to run services every 10 minutes to Gowie, again it's a maybe, but more likely now as several major LX will be gone by December.
-Werribee gets cleaned up thanks to Frankston being pulled from the loop.

Still yet to see how Metro will handle Dandenong being uni directional and if some Burnley Group services will skip Richmond, and if the Northern Loop will stop doing the 12noon shuffle.

Lockie
  route14 Chief Commissioner

The Clifton Hill junction should have been built with the down Hurstbridge line diverging left then fly-over Mernda line when the section to Westgarth was duplicated.
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

Upfield out of the loop and into Spencer st 8/8 south would be a godsend.
  NimbleJack Station Master

Elections in Gippsland aren't won or lost (or even made slightly competitive) on the back of public transport policy.

Mark my words: six years hence, most up V/Line Gippsland services will be terminating at Pakenham.
  Upven Locomotive Driver

Elections in Gippsland aren't won or lost (or even made slightly competitive) on the back of public transport policy.

Mark my words: six years hence, most up V/Line Gippsland services will be terminating at Pakenham.
NimbleJack
It will never happen. It's a ridiculous idea not based in logic.
  TrackRailroad Train Controller

Location: Frankston Line
If you are going to terminate Gippsland services at Pakenham, thought and consideration must be given to providing some express services on the Pakenham line, at least in peak times. As in running some limited stop services Dandenong to Caulfield, than through to the city or through the Metro Tunnel. I think this is possible if the Westall third platform is utilised more so. There would need to be a 4 to 5 minute head start likely given to stopping services due to the two tracks but still should be sufficient to have 10 minute services each to Westall, Pakenham and Cranbourne respectively.

In my view there should be a two tier service on the Pakenham/Cranbourne lines. One stopping all to Westall and all Pakenham/ Cranbourne services running express City, City Loop, South Yarra to Caulfield, Caulfield to Oakleigh or Clayton, Westall than all to Pakenham/ Cranbourne. This would more evenly distribute passenger numbers on both lines which are long and busy.

I agree Gippsland line services if they continue to run to the city (which likely will continue for political reasons as a previous poster mentioned) should terminate at Flinders Street. Or maybe as a compromise they could terminate at Dandenong- which is a growing employment and activity centre. Running Gippsland trains express from Pakenham- Berwick-Dandenong would reduce a little bit of the journey time into the city. And passengers could interchange to trains from Pakenham or Cranbourne, which reduces loadings on Pakenham trains.

I believe most of the future growth of the Gippsland line is between Pakenham and Warragul, due to growth in Baw Baw Shire and new PSP's. Therefore if extra short Warragul services are created as a result of additional rolling stock from not running Gippsland trains all the way to Southern Cross anymore, this could be sold as a trade off and compromise to local communities. Yes you lose your one seat train to the city, but you have additional trains from Warragul to Dandenong and maybe from Tralagon to Dandenong too, to interchange to high capacity metro trains. I think it could work with a good marketing campaign. Thoughts?
  route14 Chief Commissioner

Allocating a path for a suburban express train is no different from allocating it for a V/Line train.  Apart from temporary termination at Pakenham due to maintenance or signalling issues, those historical Pakenham terminations were mainly single Sprinters which would run empty between SSS and Dandenong or Pakenham anyway (I've seen them disappearing or appearing in a distance so the vehicles weren't physically terminating there).  I assume this was to prevent suburban passengers overcrowding the single car so they shut out everyone in the suburban section.
  TrackRailroad Train Controller

Location: Frankston Line


The operational benefits are meaningless if you risk your political skin. Again I point to Frankston, services should have been removed from the loop years ago to boost peak capacity on the Frankston & Pakenham lines. 3 Elections have gone by and they still in the loop. The Herald Sun reported before the 2018 election that plans to finally move them out of the loop had been shelved because it was deemed too politicly risky.

Frankston coming out of the loop in December

I suspected this to be the case, as the timetable to be introduced in December is the same one that was shelved in 2018.

-Frankston out of the loop and then a small boost & a clean up of peak hour. Streamline the cross city group giving Werribee at 10 minute off peak frequency.
-Dandenong, clean up of the peak. Gains trains paths released by removing Frankston. 10 minute service already runs into the night, cant see many if any additional off peak services.

-Clean up of the Ringwood group, 10 minute inter-peak during the week to match the weekend. Belgrave & Lilydale go to every 20 which is all the track allows for beyond Upper Ferntree Gully.
-Glen Waverley possibly to every 10 minutes inter-peak.
-Streamline of the stopping patterns. Alamain may become every 20 minutes all day to allow Ringwood services to Express to Camberwell.

-Hurstbridge will see a clean up and the addition of a couple of extra peak hour services that are available thanks to the Stage 1 upgrade. Paths are still constrained beyond Greensbrough. Until Stage 2 is complete, the line wont go to 10 minutes.

-Mernda will go to every 10 inter peak. Not a lot of room to add additional peak services until the Hurstbridge line is fixed and some sort of upgrade of Clifton junction is done to squeeze some extra paths out of the flat junction.

- Sunbury, every 10 to Watergardens, 20 to Sunbury. Increased services in the evening shoulder peak every 20 to Sunbury before dropping back to every 30 after 9pm.
- Craigieburn goes to every 10 minutes inter-peak, extra shoulder peak services before dropping back to 30 minutes after 9pm.
- Upfield, 2018 timetable saw Upfield being pulled from the northern loop to free up paths for Sunbury & Craigieburn. This is still a possibility as it would allow for extra Sunbury services. Craigieburn might see a couple, but would still be constrained by Platform 1 at North Melbourne. This also saw Upfield services terminate at Southern Cross Platform 8 & 8S, not sure if we will see that in December. Upfield will get s shot in the arm if it is pulled from the loop. It is possible to run services every 10 minutes to Gowie, again it's a maybe, but more likely now as several major LX will be gone by December.
-Werribee gets cleaned up thanks to Frankston being pulled from the loop.

Still yet to see how Metro will handle Dandenong being uni directional and if some Burnley Group services will skip Richmond, and if the Northern Loop will stop doing the 12noon shuffle.

Lockie
Lockie91
These changes would be great if implemented. 10 minute daytime frequency to Werribee, Cragieburn, Sunbury, Mernda and Ringwood are long overdue. What about weekends? Most lines run every 20 minutes in the day which is inadequate.

I think Upfield should run direct to Southern Cross and utilise Platform 8 and 8S, which would be great if additional trains can be provided.

Sandringham also warrants every 10 minutes in the day and even with track limitations Hurstbridge line should be able to cater for a 10 minutes off peak to Macleod (which should be extended to Greensborough or Eltham once Stage 2 of the Hurstbridge line upgrade is finished).

In regards to the Ringwood group, I think all Lilydale and Belgrave trains should run express Richmond to Camberwell, and maybe could run a 10 minute service stopping all to Camberwell, with every second Camberwell train extending to Alamein, giving the Alamein branch a 20 minute service. If Camberwell services turn back using Platform 2, and all DOWN trains use Platform 3 and all UP trains use platform 1 this should be possible. The section between Richmond and Camberwell is much busier than between Camberwell and Alamein and needs a more frequent service than every 20 minutes during the day. Hence the suggestion for a 10 minute Camberwell service.

You state a lot of services will reduce frequency to 30 minutes after 9pm. I do hope this is not the case. With many events occuring in the city (not right now but will commence again once covid restrictions are eased), services should really be every 15 to 20 minutes maximum wait time in the early mornings and after 9pm until the last train. This applies to weekends too.
  NimbleJack Station Master

MTM has been quietly pushing to banish V/Line from its tracks for years. It makes perfect operational sense. Gippland's time will come around the middle of the decade.

Ultimately, Gippsland passengers will benefit (which will mollify whatever minor political concerns arise) as service  frequency will substantially increase in compensation. Terminating trains at Dandenong is complicated by the flat junction for Cranbourne services.

As I said, though, at least some trains - notably Bairnsdales - will still make it all the way to the city.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
10 minute frequencies to Werribee, Sunbury and Craigieburn on weeknds would be brilliant, but would require the Cross-City group to come into operation on weekends (as the Northern Loop tunnel would otherwise be at capacity).
  route14 Chief Commissioner

That's alright.
  Lockspike Deputy Commissioner

Elections in Gippsland aren't won or lost (or even made slightly competitive) on the back of public transport policy.

Mark my words: six years hence, most up V/Line Gippsland services will be terminating at Pakenham.
It will never happen. It's a ridiculous idea not based in logic.
Upven
An example from another jurisdiction: The people of the NSW Southern Highlands lost (nearly all of) their through services about 20 odd yrs ago with trains from the Highlands terminating at Campbelltown. The gov of the day got away with it due the number of users being quite small compared to commuters on the West, North & Illawarra corridors.

If the people of Gippsland want to retain their through services they had better make their desire known to Spring St,
long and LOUD.
  Lockie91 Chief Train Controller

MTM has been quietly pushing to banish V/Line from its tracks for years. It makes perfect operational sense. Gippland's time will come around the middle of the decade.

Ultimately, Gippsland passengers will benefit (which will mollify whatever minor political concerns arise) as service  frequency will substantially increase in compensation. Terminating trains at Dandenong is complicated by the flat junction for Cranbourne services.

As I said, though, at least some trains - notably Bairnsdales - will still make it all the way to the city.
NimbleJack
MTM has wanted a lot of things to improve the network from an operational view. The greenfield timetable that removed Frankston from the loop, clean up stopping patterns and boost frequencies. Their political masters said no.

I really don't think you really understand how much politics play into transport planing, not just rail. State and Federal governments continue to add lanes to freeways to 'save 5 minutes'. From a Transport planing view, its all BS. Time savings go and congestion gets worse. Yet every election a new project is announced, not because its good policy, but because it is popular with the voters.

What benefits are there to Gippsland commuters? Increased frequency is not one, V/line has Vlos running off the line every couple of months and as I've said Geelong is likely to get a new train set, Melton and WV will be sparked. All within the decade and all releasing dozens of sets for use.

Operationally there is very very little benefit. Scheduling a Vlo to run from Pakenham to Flinders Street is no different to an express services. With Cityflo650 there is no need to remove them until all 32 TPH are at capacity throughout the day. Even then it's more likely that a Metro service will be removed to allow a path. The 0700 - 0800 peak has 15 services, Metro wants to increase this to 18 making frequency every 4 minutes during peak. Still plenty of room to schedule a Gippsland service, of which there is only one between 0700 - 0800.

What the benefit for the trade off?
  Lockie91 Chief Train Controller


-Frankston out of the loop and then a small boost & a clean up of peak hour. Streamline the cross city group giving Werribee at 10 minute off peak frequency.
-Dandenong, clean up of the peak. Gains trains paths released by removing Frankston. 10 minute service already runs into the night, cant see many if any additional off peak services.

-Clean up of the Ringwood group, 10 minute inter-peak during the week to match the weekend. Belgrave & Lilydale go to every 20 which is all the track allows for beyond Upper Ferntree Gully.
-Glen Waverley possibly to every 10 minutes inter-peak.
-Streamline of the stopping patterns. Alamain may become every 20 minutes all day to allow Ringwood services to Express to Camberwell.

-Hurstbridge will see a clean up and the addition of a couple of extra peak hour services that are available thanks to the Stage 1 upgrade. Paths are still constrained beyond Greensbrough. Until Stage 2 is complete, the line wont go to 10 minutes.

-Mernda will go to every 10 inter peak. Not a lot of room to add additional peak services until the Hurstbridge line is fixed and some sort of upgrade of Clifton junction is done to squeeze some extra paths out of the flat junction.

- Sunbury, every 10 to Watergardens, 20 to Sunbury. Increased services in the evening shoulder peak every 20 to Sunbury before dropping back to every 30 after 9pm.
- Craigieburn goes to every 10 minutes inter-peak, extra shoulder peak services before dropping back to 30 minutes after 9pm.
- Upfield, 2018 timetable saw Upfield being pulled from the northern loop to free up paths for Sunbury & Craigieburn. This is still a possibility as it would allow for extra Sunbury services. Craigieburn might see a couple, but would still be constrained by Platform 1 at North Melbourne. This also saw Upfield services terminate at Southern Cross Platform 8 & 8S, not sure if we will see that in December. Upfield will get s shot in the arm if it is pulled from the loop. It is possible to run services every 10 minutes to Gowie, again it's a maybe, but more likely now as several major LX will be gone by December.
-Werribee gets cleaned up thanks to Frankston being pulled from the loop.

Still yet to see how Metro will handle Dandenong being uni directional and if some Burnley Group services will skip Richmond, and if the Northern Loop will stop doing the 12noon shuffle.

LockieThese changes would be great if implemented. 10 minute daytime frequency to Werribee, Cragieburn, Sunbury, Mernda and Ringwood are long overdue. What about weekends? Most lines run every 20 minutes in the day which is inadequate.

I think Upfield should run direct to Southern Cross and utilise Platform 8 and 8S, which would be great if additional trains can be provided.

Sandringham also warrants every 10 minutes in the day and even with track limitations Hurstbridge line should be able to cater for a 10 minutes off peak to Macleod (which should be extended to Greensborough or Eltham once Stage 2 of the Hurstbridge line upgrade is finished).

In regards to the Ringwood group, I think all Lilydale and Belgrave trains should run express Richmond to Camberwell, and maybe could run a 10 minute service stopping all to Camberwell, with every second Camberwell train extending to Alamein, giving the Alamein branch a 20 minute service. If Camberwell services turn back using Platform 2, and all DOWN trains use Platform 3 and all UP trains use platform 1 this should be possible. The section between Richmond and Camberwell is much busier than between Camberwell and Alamein and needs a more frequent service than every 20 minutes during the day. Hence the suggestion for a 10 minute Camberwell service.

You state a lot of services will reduce frequency to 30 minutes after 9pm. I do hope this is not the case. With many events occuring in the city (not right now but will commence again once covid restrictions are eased), services should really be every 15 to 20 minutes maximum wait time in the early mornings and after 9pm until the last train. This applies to weekends too.
TrackRailroad

Sydney has services every 10 minutes through to midnight. Melbourne has suffered from poor evening frequencies since the cuts of the 1970 when suburban evening services went from every 10 to every 30. Some lines went to hourly before receiving slight boosts. There has been no wholesale change expect for Dandenong and Sandringham, all other lines the evening timetable has remained unchanged for near 50 years. Currently services drops off around 7pm, 9pm is a good outcome. Every 20 minutes across the network until midnight would be a good outcome. Not sure we will see it though.

Lockie

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