Mornigntion railway Baxter extension

 
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
There is a 'working group' looking at the Baxter extension. I gather the group is pretty small. The highway crossing would be another big deal, meaning I can't see it happening easily (or cheaply).

I visited last year, and asked them about it amongst other things. The impression I got was that the usual resources (time, money, bodies on the ground) are flat out keeping up with everything else needed to run a heritage railway.
locojoe67
The Mooroduc Highway already has the Necessary lights up to allow for a rail crossing, its not really that much of an issue, just install the light and the gates and your good to go. The Main level crossing issue is the one at Frankston Flinders Road, as the line has been paved over there. You are Correct in that it is not a priority, just a Very long term goal. From my visit last year, they informed me they were hoping to get some secondhand trackwork from the LX Removals in Melbourne to use on the extention eventually.

This is a few years old, but it has some details on how they want to it. (Scroll down to the B2B Part)

https://morningtonrailway.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Between-Our-Lines-Edition-2-2015-Web.pdf

Sponsored advertisement

  vicfomer Station Staff

dose anyone know how the mrps will handle the extension to Baxter with the lack of runaround loop. Will they run all the way to Farankston, will they construct a new loop at Baxter or even a hole new station before the level crossing?

on a side note dose anyone know if the Bob white flat tops are still used? or do they just sit around.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

Getting accreditation to run on the main line is a very complicated work.  The easiest way would be to build a platform and run-around loop just before the main line.
  vicfomer Station Staff

Getting accreditation to run on the main line is a very complicated work.  The easiest way would be to build a platform and run-around loop just before the main line.
route14
that's something that could happen if they can find the space, i would think they could eather run it with T411 to have an ICE radio and get and exemption for running the Baxter-frankston section (if thats possible) or while 163 is at Newport get accreditation there with help from steamrail.
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
Getting accreditation to run on the main line is a very complicated work.  The easiest way would be to build a platform and run-around loop just before the main line.
that's something that could happen if they can find the space, i would think they could eather run it with T411 to have an ICE radio and get and exemption for running the Baxter-frankston section (if thats possible) or while 163 is at Newport get accreditation there with help from steamrail.
vicfomer
Welcome to someone who has no idea how railways and their paperwork function. It would be a god damn legal nightmare, and I dont think an ICE radio even comes close to the legalities of running on the mainline.

Also the Bob White T classes are used to spin and balance generators.
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
Does anyone know how the Mornington Railway will handle the extension to Baxter with the lack of runaround loop. Will they run all the way to Frankston, will they construct a new loop at Baxter or even a whole new station before the level crossing?

On a side note, does anyone know if the Bob White flat tops are still used? Or do they just sit around.
vicfomer
In short: no-one knows, unless you're a resident of the relevant Department of Transport dungeon cell or VicTrack.

Mornington Railway doesn't have control over Baxter Station and sharing that asset with Metro Trains Melbourne or indeed running regular trains on Metro track is highly improbable due to the paperwork involved (insurance and crewing/training). The only logical way that MR could terminate services at Baxter is if a new station layout is built at the site, either at their expense or the State Government's depending on whether they piggyback onto another project there if one arises in the future.

Mornington's "Back To Baxter" project is early days and to my knowledge they haven't pitched anything concrete to the State Government about it.
  locojoe67 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Gen X purgatory/urban Joh-land
There is a 'working group' looking at the Baxter extension. I gather the group is pretty small. The highway crossing would be another big deal, meaning I can't see it happening easily (or cheaply).

I visited last year, and asked them about it amongst other things. The impression I got was that the usual resources (time, money, bodies on the ground) are flat out keeping up with everything else needed to run a heritage railway.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

By not connected to a public transport railway station it will turn away many potential visitors though.
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
By not connected to a public transport railway station it will turn away many potential visitors though.
"route14"

I can't remember ever travelling to a heritage railway by public transport.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

You can with the VGR.  It's also possible to make a same day return trip to Portland and have one round trip on the diesel cable tram.
  Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld
You can with the VGR.
route14
Hmm, bus to Brisbane, fly (or bus, train) to Melbourne, V-Line to Castlemaine. Nah, I'll drive thanks! Wink
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
There is a 'working group' looking at the Baxter extension. I gather the group is pretty small. The highway crossing would be another big deal, meaning I can't see it happening easily (or cheaply).

I visited last year, and asked them about it amongst other things. The impression I got was that the usual resources (time, money, bodies on the ground) are flat out keeping up with everything else needed to run a heritage railway.
locojoe67
The Mooroduc Highway already has the Necessary lights up to allow for a rail crossing, its not really that much of an issue, just install the light and the gates and your good to go. The Main level crossing issue is the one at Frankston Flinders Road, as the line has been paved over there. You are Correct in that it is not a priority, just a Very long term goal. From my visit last year, they informed me they were hoping to get some secondhand trackwork from the LX Removals in Melbourne to use on the extention eventually.

This is a few years old, but it has some details on how they want to it. (Scroll down to the B2B Part)

https://morningtonrailway.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Between-Our-Lines-Edition-2-2015-Web.pdf
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
There is a 'working group' looking at the Baxter extension. I gather the group is pretty small. The highway crossing would be another big deal, meaning I can't see it happening easily (or cheaply).

I visited last year, and asked them about it amongst other things. The impression I got was that the usual resources (time, money, bodies on the ground) are flat out keeping up with everything else needed to run a heritage railway.
The Mooroduc Highway already has the Necessary lights up to allow for a rail crossing, its not really that much of an issue, just install the light and the gates and your good to go. The Main level crossing issue is the one at Frankston Flinders Road, as the line has been paved over there. You are Correct in that it is not a priority, just a Very long term goal. From my visit last year, they informed me they were hoping to get some secondhand trackwork from the LX Removals in Melbourne to use on the extention eventually.

This is a few years old, but it has some details on how they want to it. (Scroll down to the B2B Part)

https://morningtonrailway.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Between-Our-Lines-Edition-2-2015-Web.pdf
don_dunstan
@bevans your site is bugging out again, Don apparently making my posts.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
There is no space for a decent tourist railway station at Baxter, South of the level crossing with Baxter-Tooradin Rd. The space between the line and the rear boundary fences of the private residential properties along Station Crescent is just too narrow for any sort of decent facility plus a run around track. And before anybody thinks of chiming in with it, no government in this country is going to compulsory acquire residential properties for a tourist railway, so forget that thought.

It would need to be on the same site as the current Baxter Station. The Stony Point line plaftorm would need to be relocated to the East side of the running line, with a new station building, car park etc built on that side of the line. In the place currently occupied by the platform at Baxter, you could fit another 2 tracks and a purpose built platform for the tourist railway.

This would require a station set up (administration, not track layout) similar to Castlemaine, where the public transport authority operates one part of the station, and the other part of the station is left to the devices of the tourist railway. A track connection between the two could exist, allowing other heritage groups to run mainline tours to Mornington, but access to it would need to be controlled primarily by the PT Authority (in this case Metro).


Bear in mind, that is the best possible outcome. It would require massive capital from the state government something I wouldn't be holding my breath for, and even then, it would require a mammoth effort from the MRPS.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
There is no space for a decent tourist railway station at Baxter, South of the level crossing with Baxter-Tooradin Rd. The space between the line and the rear boundary fences of the private residential properties along Station Crescent is just too narrow for any sort of decent facility plus a run around track. And before anybody thinks of chiming in with it, no government in this country is going to compulsory acquire residential properties for a tourist railway, so forget that thought.

It would need to be on the same site as the current Baxter Station. The Stony Point line plaftorm would need to be relocated to the East side of the running line, with a new station building, car park etc built on that side of the line. In the place currently occupied by the platform at Baxter, you could fit another 2 tracks and a purpose built platform for the tourist railway.

This would require a station set up (administration, not track layout) similar to Castlemaine, where the public transport authority operates one part of the station, and the other part of the station is left to the devices of the tourist railway. A track connection between the two could exist, allowing other heritage groups to run mainline tours to Mornington, but access to it would need to be controlled primarily by the PT Authority (in this case Metro).


Bear in mind, that is the best possible outcome. It would require massive capital from the state government something I wouldn't be holding my breath for, and even then, it would require a mammoth effort from the MRPS.
"Gman_86"


May not be that hard to get some funding for the above, the whole access to the station appears to be a bit of mess, a dirt track via the Woolworths car park. I was searching on street view, I couldn't easily see a sign pointing to the station?

Building the station on the other side then introduces a pedestrian LX across the running line and access from Woolworths is then across the heritage rail site.

Slight change to what you are thinking or maybe same, rebuild the station on eastern side, but closer to the LX with a car park access built off Fulton's Road? Along with relocation of the sleeper storage etc yard?

The heritage operator then has access to space between the existing line and Woolworths fence, 35m wide and 200m long to the end of the existing dirt track drop off loop. Vehicle access is via Woolworths.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
One thing I didn't consider, is the likelihood of Baxter station being rebuilt as a part of the upcoming extension of electrification and a future large suburban train stabling facility in the area.

This may of course result in a much larger Baxter Station precinct being designed, with or without allowance for an extension from the Mornington Railway.
  62440 Chief Commissioner

A quick ramble with MrGoogle
Moorooduc Highway is now largely by-passed by the Freeway but is still a main road with the railway crossing next to the roundabout. Getting approvals will not be easy or cheap. If you can't do that, you can't do anything.
Summer Road is minor and could be an open crossing but may need to be hand-signalled on operating days.
Freeway is a bridge, minimal issues but may need blast plates above track centre
Frankston-Flinders Road is a serious road and would need full lights and gates
You will need a pedestrian crossing near Railway Road
I can't see you reaching Baxter station though, as noted, this area is due for major rail changes and things will change. As it is, you will need a basic platform and a run-round facility unless you plan to run all trains pus-pull

In my opinion, based on my experience, you won't get the paperwork done for under a million for the full project. Toss in a million each for major level crossings, then look at resleepering, ballasting and fencing. Then look at a replacement walkway or upgrade.
I would love to see it happen, and pump-priming the Victorian economy might free up some funds, but it is a major project and will have to be run professionally
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
May not be that hard to get some funding for the above, the whole access to the station appears to be a bit of mess, a dirt track via the Woolworths car park. I was searching on street view, I couldn't easily see a sign pointing to the station?
"RTT_Rules"
Where do you think the funding will come from? This is Victoria, remember?
  K160 Minister for Railways

Location: Bendigo
May not be that hard to get some funding for the above, the whole access to the station appears to be a bit of mess, a dirt track via the Woolworths car park. I was searching on street view, I couldn't easily see a sign pointing to the station?
Where do you think the funding will come from? This is Victoria, remember?
Valvegear

The Tip Jar at Spring Street? Laughing
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
This is the Mornington Peninsula remember. Drum up a grass roots campaign, get the local paper involved, which in turn gets some heavier hitters from Melbourne with links to the peninsula (think the Neil Mitchell type) sympathetic, and bingo, come the next state election, both sides of politics wheel out the pork barrel again.

That is how to get things done in Victoria.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
I doubt if too many of the well heeled Peninsula dwellers could give two hoots about a tourist railway. Better public transport, maybe; more schools, kindergartens, and affordable day care; probably, and a big flash casino almost certainly.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
You are probably correct there Valvegear, as I said in my earlier post, it is all a long shot to begin with and it will require a mammoth effort.

Sponsored advertisement

Subscribers: RTT_Rules, speedemon08

Display from: