Standard Gauge VLocity

 
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

The more recent V Locities with improved crash protection (heaven forbid that they should actually need it) have more scope for higher speeds through unprotected level crossings. So with some sensible upgrades they should initially be able to travel at 115 kph. Then go up to 130 kph as the track safety improves.

Sponsored advertisement

  ngarner Assistant Commissioner

Location: Seville
I'll try writing this as clearly as possible. Folks here seem to get mighty confused.

VL 00 to 79 are currently in service. That's 80 three-car sets in total. VL 80 to 88 (nine three-car sets in total) are 2018 models. They will be entering service before the end of the year; most are in storage at Wyndham Vale awaiting new windscreens.

After the six three-car SG units (VL 89 to 94), there will be a further 12 three-car 2018-model VL units, taking us to VL 106.

And voilà. We're done.

EDITED: My maths was at fault here, no one else's!


Youtube clip by 'Greensleeves' shows VL88 in service today and apparently most, if not all, of the others of this series are at Bombadier or on their way there for rectification of their windscreen issues.

(snipped)

Neil
ngarner
You beat me to it!

Word is that 3VL85 is due into traffic in the next couple of days followed by 3VL80 with the rest following over the coming weeks.
"Greensleeves"


Marcus Wong has posted photos of VL85 in service at Sunshine today, so Greensleeves information is spot on.

https://railgallery.wongm.com/page/recent-uploads

Neil
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
The more recent V Locities with improved crash protection (heaven forbid that they should actually need it) have more scope for higher speeds through unprotected level crossings. So with some sensible upgrades they should initially be able to travel at 115 kph. Then go up to 130 kph as the track safety improves.
Duncs
Thanks Duncs and Gman earlier, I wasn't very clear with that statement, I think the Swan Hill line is up for the upgrade after Warrnambool is completed so I was meaning I reckon they could squeeze the throttle a bit harder than 130 after all the upgrades and protection items are complete. Flat open country, make the most of it, anyhow 130 revamped track and a nice new Velocity will certainly be a vast improvement.

Was really only a passing comment to BG.

BigShunter.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

The more recent V Locities with improved crash protection (heaven forbid that they should actually need it) have more scope for higher speeds through unprotected level crossings. So with some sensible upgrades they should initially be able to travel at 115 kph. Then go up to 130 kph as the track safety improves.
Thanks Duncs and Gman earlier, I wasn't very clear with that statement, I think the Swan Hill line is up for the upgrade after Warrnambool is completed so I was meaning I reckon they could squeeze the throttle a bit harder than 130 after all the upgrades and protection items are complete. Flat open country, make the most of it, anyhow 130 revamped track and a nice new Velocity will certainly be a vast improvement.

Was really only a passing comment to BG.

BigShunter.
BigShunter
The current reality seems to be that the new V/Locities have slightly heavier axle loads which make the nervous nellies at VLP insist on Class - 2M track with appropriate lx protection to allow 130kmh, and 115kmh on existing Class - 2 track.

Given the past lx incidents with loss of life at Kerang and Trawalla, and derailment of loco hauled pass on the Warrnambool line, there will certainly NOT be higher speeds allowed just because of the strengthened VL cabs. On Warrnambool, Swan Hill, Albury , Shepparton and Bairnsdale the primary issue in operating V/Locity is lx protection first, then track quality allowing higher speed operation.

In respect of the lx protection current situation is :

- Waurn Ponds  Warrnambool largely complete, 12 more crossings done this year and only 2 occupation crossings listed currently with 80kmh SR.
- Eaglehawk - Swan Hill although loco hauled now riddled with SR at lx, snails pace on upgrading lx protection.
- Epsom - Echuca allegedly all done to allow higher speed operation, awaiting track upgrade a 7 year long VLP "Blue Hills" saga !!!! spanning now some 3 Ministers.
- Albury Line - currently part of ARTC upgrade lx works, allowable VL speed not clear supposed to be same as XPT 130 kmh ?
- Shepparton Line - 59 lx between Donnybrook and Shepparton to be upgraded to booms to allow V/Locity operation, but no mention of speed increase other than yet another business case instead of actually getting on with upgrading the track to at least Class 2 allowing VL at 115kmh.
- Traralgon - Sale - Bairnsdale lots of SR's to allow initial VL operation and prolong life of original Stratford bridge, but no obvious sign of any program to upgrade  lx protection on this section.
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

The more recent V Locities with improved crash protection (heaven forbid that they should actually need it) have more scope for higher speeds through unprotected level crossings. So with some sensible upgrades they should initially be able to travel at 115 kph. Then go up to 130 kph as the track safety improves.
Thanks Duncs and Gman earlier, I wasn't very clear with that statement, I think the Swan Hill line is up for the upgrade after Warrnambool is completed so I was meaning I reckon they could squeeze the throttle a bit harder than 130 after all the upgrades and protection items are complete. Flat open country, make the most of it, anyhow 130 revamped track and a nice new Velocity will certainly be a vast improvement.

Was really only a passing comment to BG.

BigShunter.
The current reality seems to be that the new V/Locities have slightly heavier axle loads which make the nervous nellies at VLP insist on Class - 2M track with appropriate lx protection to allow 130kmh, and 115kmh on existing Class - 2 track.

Given the past lx incidents with loss of life at Kerang and Trawalla, and derailment of loco hauled pass on the Warrnambool line, there will certainly NOT be higher speeds allowed just because of the strengthened VL cabs. On Warrnambool, Swan Hill, Albury , Shepparton and Bairnsdale the primary issue in operating V/Locity is lx protection first, then track quality allowing higher speed operation.

In respect of the lx protection current situation is :

- Waurn Ponds  Warrnambool largely complete, 12 more crossings done this year and only 2 occupation crossings listed currently with 80kmh SR.
- Eaglehawk - Swan Hill although loco hauled now riddled with SR at lx, snails pace on upgrading lx protection.
- Epsom - Echuca allegedly all done to allow higher speed operation, awaiting track upgrade a 7 year long VLP "Blue Hills" saga !!!! spanning now some 3 Ministers.
- Albury Line - currently part of ARTC upgrade lx works, allowable VL speed not clear supposed to be same as XPT 130 kmh ?
- Shepparton Line - 59 lx between Donnybrook and Shepparton to be upgraded to booms to allow V/Locity operation, but no mention of speed increase other than yet another business case instead of actually getting on with upgrading the track to at least Class 2 allowing VL at 115kmh.
- Traralgon - Sale - Bairnsdale lots of SR's to allow initial VL operation and prolong life of original Stratford bridge, but no obvious sign of any program to upgrade  lx protection on this section.
kuldalai
This lack of progress is simply pathetic!
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
I’m a bit late to the party but from my point of view, 6 (3Car) SG VLocity sets on order is a disappointment. Sure they may be able to run the existing number of services but they could have taken the opportunity to increase frequency to say 6 round trips a day. Trains are superior to those coaches.
Jordy33

Hi Jordy...welcome to the forum. You are slightly late to the ongoing north east discussion which, aside from this thread actually goes back to the 'upgrade' of the north east line well over 10 years ago. Nevertheless welcome to the discussion.

It's generally agreed that 3 car trains will be insufficient accommodation for the growing market and 6 car trains very much limits the accessibility through the train and access to the refreshment service and appears to be a waste of money with underutilised driver cabs. This fact has been pointed out to the government by professionals in the rail industry, however the information seems to have been blocked by the minders, who don't know a lot about what they are meant to know a lot about.

Ultimately, the plan for the Albury line is to increase the service frequency and say goodbye to the pesky and slow buses and perhaps with a greatly increased frequency, three carriages may be sufficient.

Mike.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
I’m a bit late to the party but from my point of view, 6 (3Car) SG VLocity sets on order is a disappointment. Sure they may be able to run the existing number of services but they could have taken the opportunity to increase frequency to say 6 round trips a day. Trains are superior to those coaches.
Jordy33
I think that if they could afford to run 6*3 car sets instead of 3*6 car sets, the same rollingstock could deliver better frequency and also give passengers far better travel options.  This would likely increase patronage.  Gman86 might have another comment coming my way as i might be out of the loop regarding any announcements to this effect, but im not seeing anything in the announcements of any concrete nature.

Greater frequency is known to be much preferred by passengers, be it daily vs 3 per week, or 6 per day instead of 3 per day.  

Question, do these new VLos require 1 or 2 drivers?  And how many total crew compared to a full N Set?  If the numbers are more or less the same then a whole new timetable for the NESG might be very successful.
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
Just spotted this while trawling YouTube.

New Velocity Trains : 9 News Border East

https://www.facebook.com/9NewsBorderNorthEast/videos/748219649291772/

0:48 wonder if that fellow is known to us ?

BigShunter.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Ive found some detail re the config of the new VLocity set.

See the page here

https://transport.vic.gov.au/our-transport-future/our-projects/new-and-upgraded-trains-and-trams/new-train-and-tram-orders#VlocityNE

Scroll down past the video to the fact sheets

Seat count is approx 150 (146 if my count is right) with 6 wheelchair spaces

Sorry if this is already known but for newcomers, FYI.

So if we assume 1 driver, 1 buffet and one other crew, does that make sense (3 crew)?  Or would there be two additional crew (4 crew total)?
  justarider Deputy Commissioner

Location: Free at last, free at last
Just spotted this while trawling YouTube.

New Velocity Trains : 9 News Border East

https://www.facebook.com/9NewsBorderNorthEast/videos/748219649291772/

0:48 wonder if that fellow is known to us ?

BigShunter.
BigShunter
interesting tit bit on the video we seem to have missed.

It's not just that the new SG have been ordered. The one shown in the clip, VL90 is being built and nearly finished.

cheers
John
  Lockspike Deputy Commissioner

This fact has been pointed out to the government by professionals in the rail industry, however the information seems to have been blocked by the minders, who don't know a lot about what they are meant to know a lot about.
The Vinelander
I reckon you are on the money with that statement, Mike.
It probably applies across all ministers and industries, and probably all Australian jurisdictions.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

I’m a bit late to the party but from my point of view, 6 (3Car) SG VLocity sets on order is a disappointment. Sure they may be able to run the existing number of services but they could have taken the opportunity to increase frequency to say 6 round trips a day. Trains are superior to those coaches.
Jordy33

That ain't happening. Remember that the SG is run by the ARTC and they aren't going to allow any extra passenger services.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
I’m a bit late to the party but from my point of view, 6 (3Car) SG VLocity sets on order is a disappointment. Sure they may be able to run the existing number of services but they could have taken the opportunity to increase frequency to say 6 round trips a day. Trains are superior to those coaches.

That ain't happening. Remember that the SG is run by the ARTC and they aren't going to allow any extra passenger services.
simstrain
If there are paths available is not ARTC obliged to sell them to anyone meeting their operating criteria etc?
Would not ARTC be shooting itself in the foot by refusing access paying clients merely because they are (a) an arm of the Victorian Government (b) a passenger carrying operator.
  ngarner Assistant Commissioner

Location: Seville
Vicsig have, finally, updated their V'locity page, which shows that, based on the information they have, the 101st to 106th are the SG version and the intention is to number them 11101-06, 13101-06 and 12101-06.
It also states that the "short-distance' #76 to 79 are classified VR, not  VL.

Neil
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

I’m a bit late to the party but from my point of view, 6 (3Car) SG VLocity sets on order is a disappointment. Sure they may be able to run the existing number of services but they could have taken the opportunity to increase frequency to say 6 round trips a day. Trains are superior to those coaches.

That ain't happening. Remember that the SG is run by the ARTC and they aren't going to allow any extra passenger services.
simstrain
Wrong ARTC maintain the track under a long term lease from the Victorian Government. There is heaps of capacity on the sg Albury line epsecially between Seymour & Albury. THE RNDP provides for 5 return VLP services to Albury on Weekdays. In due course they will need to order another 2 car sets = 6 car consist to enable the 4th and 5th return services to be scheduled. Warrnambool has 4 loco hauled now, and goes to 5 late 2021 when Boorcan Loop is commissioned.
Even with 5 return trips to Albury on Weekdays with a 3 car set only seating 150 it will be difficult to find a trip pair that can get away with just 3 cars.
Like am Down only needs 3 cars BUT the modday Up needs 6 so 6 have to run the am Down. The future mid morning Down for mid afternoon Up wight get away with 3 cars.
The ultimate Albury Weekday service will look something like :
Down :  0705   1030      1300      1530   1830     Up     0600      0800      1130      1430      1700  plus the XPT's
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Vicsig have, finally, updated their V'locity page, which shows that, based on the information they have, the 101st to 106th are the SG version and the intention is to number them 11101-06, 13101-06 and 12101-06.
It also states that the "short-distance' #76 to 79 are classified VR, not  VL.

Neil
ngarner
Yes the VR class denotes the 4 orphan sets with the rock hard seats 234 capacity instead 222 one toilet only and for use only on outer Metro services. Of course they end up at Echuca/Ararat etc - a moronic decision you just have two VL types Inter-Urban and Inter City. On Warranambool, Swan Hill & Bairnsdale you only need 1 Inter City set beyond Geelong, Bendigo or Traralgon under most circumstances so one can attach a second Commuter type set as required to provide un-reserved capacity between Melbourne and Geelong / Bendigo / Traralgon.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Ive found some detail re the config of the new VLocity set.

see New VLocity trains for the North East line (PDF 107KB)

Seat count is approx 150 (146 if my count is right) with 6 wheelchair spaces

Sorry if this is already known but for newcomers, FYI.

So if we assume 1 driver, 1 buffet and one other crew, does that make sense (3 crew)?  Or would there be two additional crew (4 crew total)?
james.au
Could you please fix this link? It doesn't point to the proper address.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

This link is to the Department of Transport's site with the virtual tour. The PDF with the carriage layouts is under Fact sheets.
https://transport.vic.gov.au/our-transport-future/our-projects/new-and-upgraded-trains-and-trams/new-train-and-tram-orders#VlocityNE
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
I’m a bit late to the party but from my point of view, 6 (3Car) SG VLocity sets on order is a disappointment. Sure they may be able to run the existing number of services but they could have taken the opportunity to increase frequency to say 6 round trips a day. Trains are superior to those coaches.

That ain't happening. Remember that the SG is run by the ARTC and they aren't going to allow any extra passenger services.
simstrain

During the day there are amounts of capacity on the NESG. Freight moves more at night remember.

The problems might be south of Seymour, though a bit of track construction to link up some of the passing lanes and loops would add a fair bit of capacity there, and from Tottenham into SCS.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
[SG Velocity] Seat count is approx 150 (146 if my count is right) with 6 wheelchair spaces
james.au

For comparison the N set has total seating of 368 (52 in first, rest in economy).  

I would be very keen to see the passenger loads on the current services though.
  justarider Deputy Commissioner

Location: Free at last, free at last
[SG Velocity] Seat count is approx 150 (146 if my count is right) with 6 wheelchair spaces

For comparison the N set has total seating of 368 (52 in first, rest in economy).  

I would be very keen to see the passenger loads on the current services though.
james.au
Shouldn't that be a comparison berween a 6 car vlo (300ish) and 5 car N set 360ish.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

So even if they run as six-car sets there will still be a capacity reduction.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
[SG Velocity] Seat count is approx 150 (146 if my count is right) with 6 wheelchair spaces

For comparison the N set has total seating of 368 (52 in first, rest in economy).  

I would be very keen to see the passenger loads on the current services though.
Shouldn't that be a comparison berween a 6 car vlo (300ish) and 5 car N set 360ish.
justarider
Well im comparing independent operating set to independent operating set - which is as valid comparison as a 6 car (2 independent operating sets combined) to an N Set.
  Lockspike Deputy Commissioner

That ain't happening. Remember that the SG is run by the ARTC and they aren't going to allow any extra passenger services.
If there are paths available is not ARTC obliged to sell them to anyone meeting their operating criteria etc?
Would not ARTC be shooting itself in the foot by refusing access paying clients merely because they are (a) an arm of the Victorian Government (b) a passenger carrying operator.
YM-Mundrabilla
Especially as a path for a fast passenger train is sold at a premium price.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Its still not clear to me what the crew requirements are, either currently for the N sets, or for these future SG VLos.

Anyone able to enlighten me?

Sponsored advertisement

Display from: