Standard Gauge VLocity

 
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Albury services are run with a combination of Melbourne, Seymour and Albury crews with a mixture of rest jobs (Albury crew stay overnight in Melb and Melbourne crew stay overnight in Albury) and up and back jobs with a change Seymour.
jakar

Is this set-up in place for other long-haul V/Line runs? Ie: - Do Swan Hill runs operate with a mix of Mebourne, Bendigo and Swan Hill crews?

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  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

What is the current staffing on the N sets?
1 x conductor plus 1 x tuck shop worker (conductor grade). And I don't care what Mike the Vinelander says the coffee is awful Laughing
The staffing of the existing buffets on Albury are an absolute disgarce designed to suit VLP NOT the long suffering Albury punters.
What with the mid trip crew change and the endless stocktaing of teaspoons etc the buffets are closed more than they are open . VLP need to get their on train catering act together with buffet service available immediately on departure from the terminal station, and closing 20 mins prior to arrival at the end station . If the crew needs to chang end route then a 5 minute changeover with VLP TRUSTING their staff and doing away with the Soviet era stocktakes.  Aldi cashiers change in 1 minute and the show goes on .
What an unfair rant about what train staff actually do.

They are not full time coffee servers,
Conductors look after the safety and service of passengers. As a PART-TIME job,  they serve food & drink.

And I'm pretty sure they do not stock-take plastic drink stirrers.

If the number of customers (which I have observed to be bugger all) justifies the FULL-TIME attention of a barista , then perhaps they will be rostered on.

PS: yes the quality of coffee is marginally above Nescafe,  certainly better than American.
justarider
My rant as you term it was not about what the staff do, rather how VLP uses their staff to provide a buffet service that is closed for so much of the Albury trip time.  The VLP drivers, station staff and conductors provide a very passenger friendly service.
  jakar Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
Albury services are run with a combination of Melbourne, Seymour and Albury crews with a mixture of rest jobs (Albury crew stay overnight in Melb and Melbourne crew stay overnight in Albury) and up and back jobs with a change Seymour.

Is this set-up in place for other long-haul V/Line runs? Ie: - Do Swan Hill runs operate with a mix of Mebourne, Bendigo and Swan Hill crews?
Gman_86
Pretty much, except in your example there are no crews based at Swan Hill so its all done with Bendigo and Melbourne crews. Currently Albury is the only regional depot that has rest jobs. Bairnsdale is a mix of Bairnsdale, Traralgon and Melb crews, Warrnambool is only Warrnambool and Geelong crews, Ararat is Ballarat and Melb crews, Maryborough is only Ballarat based crew, Echuca is Bendigo crew, and Shepparton is both Seymour and Melb based crews.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
What is the current staffing on the N sets?
1 x conductor plus 1 x tuck shop worker (conductor grade). And I don't care what Mike the Vinelander says the coffee is awful Laughing
The staffing of the existing buffets on Albury are an absolute disgarce designed to suit VLP NOT the long suffering Albury punters.
What with the mid trip crew change and the endless stocktaing of teaspoons etc the buffets are closed more than they are open . VLP need to get their on train catering act together with buffet service available immediately on departure from the terminal station, and closing 20 mins prior to arrival at the end station . If the crew needs to chang end route then a 5 minute changeover with VLP TRUSTING their staff and doing away with the Soviet era stocktakes.  Aldi cashiers change in 1 minute and the show goes on .
What an unfair rant about what train staff actually do.

They are not full time coffee servers,
Conductors look after the safety and service of passengers. As a PART-TIME job,  they serve food & drink.

And I'm pretty sure they do not stock-take plastic drink stirrers.

If the number of customers (which I have observed to be bugger all) justifies the FULL-TIME attention of a barista , then perhaps they will be rostered on.

PS: yes the quality of coffee is marginally above Nescafe,  certainly better than American.
My rant as you term it was not about what the staff do, rather how VLP uses their staff to provide a buffet service that is closed for so much of the Albury trip time.  The VLP drivers, station staff and conductors provide a very passenger friendly service.
kuldalai
That is certainly how i read Kuldalai's post.

I happen to share the same view, most Connies are really good, helpful, friendly (although I have had a couple of Buffet attendants give me that 'how dare you interrupt my quiet time' vibe on the AM Down Swanners back in the glory days when the buffet was actually open

However they like all V/Line staff work within a set of rules some of which are a bit antiquated for today's world. Some of this is union driven and some is risk-averse management driven.

And as much as I admire and respect the Connies and the job they do I am still buggered if I know why you need a conductor-grade employee to work a pod coffee machine and heat up a Chicken Roll. The whole buffet system should have been tendered out to the private sector years ago IMO
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Do the buffets on a SG long-haul require staffing or are they some sort of auto self-serve, ie 2 catering staff to Albury, none to Bairnsdale?
kitchgp

As far as I'm aware, buffets do require staff. They are called conductors
justarider

The question was about the proposed buffet (hereinafter referred to using its brochure nomenclature of ‘modern catering facility’) on the long-haul VLocity, the subject of this thread. Does the MCF need to be staffed (be it a conductor or whatever), or will it be some sort of vending machine arrangement, perhaps requiring only part-time staffing? There is little information in the video or brochure about what exactly an MCF will be.

The lower capacity of the VLocity, compared to the current N-sets, is due to the seating configuration in Economy, ie 2 + 2 seating instead of 2 + 3 seating, the bike racks and additional wheel chair space.

The seating capacities of the VLocity are:
DM(D) - 48 (includes 2 x 4-club seat arrangement)
TM - 30 (includes 4 x 4-club seat arrangement with shared tables)
DM - 66 (includes 4 x 4-club seat arrangement)

Total - 144

In addition, the TM has 4 x side-facing fold-up seats in the MCF area and 4 x standard seats for wheel chair companions. There are 12 x side-facing fold-up seats in the 6 x wheel chair bays in the DM(D) and TM cars.

Assuming the diagrams are to scale, in a 2 x 3-car VLocity the two unused driving modules (12 each) and the extra MCF (30) take up space for about 54 seats.

Adding an additional car (TP), similar in layout to the DM above but without the driving module, to a 3-car VLocity would add 78 seats. Adding 2 x TP would roughly double the capacity, although, depending on the number of cars added, additional toilets and wheel chair bays would be a consideration. The additional cars could be designed to be added or subtracted subject to seasonal demands and allow splitting the train into 3-car units or less (with hostler controls if necessary) for maintenance.

As the long-hauls probably only need to be capable of 130 km/h (even on the BG RFR sections an express would be able to keep up with a current VLocity making extra stops), whether or not one of the additional TPs needs to be powered would be worth considering, although the engines on the new design might have been detuned.

The first VLocitys were 2-car (DM(D) – DM) seating 140 passengers. The N-sets were 3-car (ACN - BRN - BN) when first introduced, seating 202 passengers including 52 first class. Both have since been expanded.

https://transport.vic.gov.au/our-transport-future/our-projects/new-and-upgraded-trains-and-trams/new-train-and-tram-orders#VlocityNE


PS: Surely the long-haul VLocitys will have a different type prefix, eg VS, and different number range.
PPS: Don’t call me ………………………
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
I am pretty sure that the "Modern Catering Facility" is just media spin from the department to make it sound like these new trains offer something that is significantly better than the buffet in the old soon to be retired SN sets.

In reality I think you will find that the "Modern Catering Facility" is just another buffet.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
I am pretty sure that the "Modern Catering Facility" is just media spin from the department to make it sound like these new trains offer something that is significantly better than the buffet in the old soon to be retired SN sets.

In reality I think you will find that the "Modern Catering Facility" is just another buffet.
Gman_86


It won't become a 'Modern Catering Facility' until one can purchase a glass of wine or a beer. Preferably a beer because the responsible nanny state serving of wine these days means you pay around $10.00 per mouthful.

This draconian no alcohol policy is only in place here in Victoria and nowhere else in the 'free' world.

Mike.
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
I am pretty sure that the "Modern Catering Facility" is just media spin from the department to make it sound like these new trains offer something that is significantly better than the buffet in the old soon to be retired SN sets.

In reality I think you will find that the "Modern Catering Facility" is just another buffet.


It won't become a 'Modern Catering Facility' until one can purchase a glass of wine or a beer. Preferably a beer because the responsible nanny state serving of wine these days means you pay around $10.00 per mouthful.

This draconian no alcohol policy is only in place here in Victoria and nowhere else in the 'free' world.

Mike.
The Vinelander
The social benefit of conductors not having to deal with drunk and unruly passengers buying alcohol on board probably more than outweighs the cost of you not being able to enjoy a drink on your relatively short train journey.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
I am pretty sure that the "Modern Catering Facility" is just media spin from the department to make it sound like these new trains offer something that is significantly better than the buffet in the old soon to be retired SN sets.

In reality I think you will find that the "Modern Catering Facility" is just another buffet.


It won't become a 'Modern Catering Facility' until one can purchase a glass of wine or a beer. Preferably a beer because the responsible nanny state serving of wine these days means you pay around $10.00 per mouthful.

This draconian no alcohol policy is only in place here in Victoria and nowhere else in the 'free' world.

Mike.
The social benefit of conductors not having to deal with drunk and unruly passengers buying alcohol on board probably more than outweighs the cost of you not being able to enjoy a drink on your relatively short train journey.
TOQ-1

Do you mean my relatively short 4.5 hour train journey from Melbourne to Swan Hill or vice-versa...which I might add is a longer journey than a direct flight from Melbourne to Cairns.

Just checking... Smile

Mike.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner


Do you mean my relatively short 4.5 hour train journey from Melbourne to Swan Hill or vice-versa...which I might add is a longer journey than a direct flight from Melbourne to Cairns.

Just checking... Smile

Mike.
The Vinelander

Did you move to Swan Hill? That 4.5 hour journey would sting if you have to do it daily.

This rolling stock is a huge missed opportunity. Why couldn't Victoria have built something a little bit more modern and gone electric with the propulsion allowing the removal of the extra generator set for a start and maybe moving the engine to the end of the carriage allowing the smoke stack to be eliminated and freeing up an extra couple of seat rows. This is same old same old design as the Xplorer, Endeavour and Vlocity with no efficiency gain to make the trips more economical.
  hidden Chief Train Controller

-SNIP- Currently Albury is the only regional depot that has rest jobs. -SNIP-
jakar
Both Geelong and Bendigo have "Rest Jobs" on their Roster.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner


Do you mean my relatively short 4.5 hour train journey from Melbourne to Swan Hill or vice-versa...which I might add is a longer journey than a direct flight from Melbourne to Cairns.

Just checking... Smile

Mike.
Did you move to Swan Hill? That 4.5 hour journey would sting if you have to do it daily.

This rolling stock is a huge missed opportunity. Why couldn't Victoria have built something a little bit more modern and gone electric with the propulsion allowing the removal of the extra generator set for a start and maybe moving the engine to the end of the carriage allowing the smoke stack to be eliminated and freeing up an extra couple of seat rows. This is same old same old design as the Xplorer, Endeavour and Vlocity with no efficiency gain to make the trips more economical.
simstrain
I totally agree. Why they went for Hydraulic Propulsion and stick with a 1990's design is beyond me.


Michael
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
The social benefit of conductors not having to deal with drunk and unruly passengers buying alcohol on board probably more than outweighs the cost of you not being able to enjoy a drink on your relatively short train journey.
TOQ-1
The drunk and unruly pax are still on board they just get on the charge before they get on and/or BYO and consume from their seats or in the capacious surrounds of the disabled toilet

As I have posted in the past the poor connies still have to deal with them on a regular basis on the Bendigo line at least
  Upven Locomotive Driver

I am pretty sure that the "Modern Catering Facility" is just media spin from the department to make it sound like these new trains offer something that is significantly better than the buffet in the old soon to be retired SN sets.

In reality I think you will find that the "Modern Catering Facility" is just another buffet.


It won't become a 'Modern Catering Facility' until one can purchase a glass of wine or a beer. Preferably a beer because the responsible nanny state serving of wine these days means you pay around $10.00 per mouthful.

This draconian no alcohol policy is only in place here in Victoria and nowhere else in the 'free' world.

Mike.
The social benefit of conductors not having to deal with drunk and unruly passengers buying alcohol on board probably more than outweighs the cost of you not being able to enjoy a drink on your relatively short train journey.
TOQ-1
RSA would apply as it's Victoria. This is just another excuse for not providing a modern service. If we're that concerned, bring more PSO's on regional trains if it's an issue. The voting masses approve of them regardless of cost.
  jakar Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
-SNIP- Currently Albury is the only regional depot that has rest jobs. -SNIP-
Both Geelong and Bendigo have "Rest Jobs" on their Roster.
hidden
You are absolutely correct. For some reason I omitted 'in Melbourne' at the end of that sentence.    

To clarify, currently Albury is the only regional depot that has rest jobs in Melbourne, Bendigo crews go to rest in Swan Hill and Geelong in Warrnambool.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
The social benefit of conductors not having to deal with drunk and unruly passengers buying alcohol on board probably more than outweighs the cost of you not being able to enjoy a drink on your relatively short train journey.
RSA would apply as it's Victoria. This is just another excuse for not providing a modern service. If we're that concerned, bring more PSO's on regional trains if it's an issue. The voting masses approve of them regardless of cost.
Upven
And the exorbitant profit margins on alcohol would pay for the PSOs and some!
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Way back in the dim dark past was it not the inability to control the drunks that led to withdrawal (or partial reduction?) of the buffet car service on the Albury Express?
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

I totally agree. Why they went for Hydraulic Propulsion and stick with a 1990's design is beyond me.


Michael
mejhammers1

Are you actually agreeing or being sarcastic? I suspect it is the later but I do not want to jump to a conclusion. Thanks if you are actually agreeing.

If your being sarcastic then I would reply that 90's train design is based on even older designs which in 2020 need to go the way of the dodo bird. If Bombardier had invested in this newer capability then maybe they would have stood a chance in getting the new regional train fleet instead of CAF. It's not like it isn't possible since Lithgow state mine did this to the 620/720 solar train railmotor and the Adelaide A-City is just an electric Vlo.
  Lockspike Deputy Commissioner

RSA would apply as it's Victoria. This is just another excuse for not providing a modern service. If we're that concerned, bring more PSO's on regional trains if it's an issue. The voting masses approve of them regardless of cost.
And the exorbitant profit margins on alcohol would pay for the PSOs and some!
BrentonGolding
Considering the significant profit margins in restauranting, I do wonder why V/Line do not make more of on train catering. I'd like to see them enhancing the on board dining experience (as much as is practicable without dedicated dining cars), and highlight local produce. Gotta' love value adding.
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

Considering the significant profit margins in restauranting, I do wonder why V/Line do not make more of on train catering. I'd like to see them enhancing the on board dining experience (as much as is practicable without dedicated dining cars), and highlight local produce. Gotta' love value adding.
Lockspike
There's high margin in beverages, but food is as low margin as it can get.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
RSA would apply as it's Victoria. This is just another excuse for not providing a modern service. If we're that concerned, bring more PSO's on regional trains if it's an issue. The voting masses approve of them regardless of cost.
And the exorbitant profit margins on alcohol would pay for the PSOs and some!
Considering the significant profit margins in restauranting, I do wonder why V/Line do not make more of on train catering. I'd like to see them enhancing the on board dining experience (as much as is practicable without dedicated dining cars), and highlight local produce. Gotta' love value adding.
Lockspike
Maybe they have catering because they have to and not bercause they want to?
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner


.....................................................

If your being sarcastic then I would reply that 90's train design is based on even older designs which in 2020 need to go the way of the dodo bird. If Bombardier had invested in this newer capability then maybe they would have stood a chance in getting the new regional train fleet instead of CAF. It's not like it isn't possible since Lithgow state mine did this to the 620/720 solar train railmotor and the Adelaide A-City is just an electric Vlo.
simstrain

Since 2004:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autorail_%C3%A0_grande_capacit%C3%A9
  simstrain Chief Commissioner


Since 2004:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autorail_%C3%A0_grande_capacit%C3%A9
kitchgp

So we know that Bombardier can do it but the government chose not to take this path.
  justarider Deputy Commissioner

Location: Free at last, free at last

Since 2004:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autorail_%C3%A0_grande_capacit%C3%A9
"kitchgp"

So we know that Bombardier can do it but the government chose not to take this path.
"simstrain"

The govt chose to NOT go with an underpowered deisel,  that has an electric option that CANNOT be used.

BTW v/lo were already in testing in June 2004. Same period as this "new" wonder made an appearance.

cheers
John
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

I totally agree. Why they went for Hydraulic Propulsion and stick with a 1990's design is beyond me.


Michael

Are you actually agreeing or being sarcastic? I suspect it is the later but I do not want to jump to a conclusion. Thanks if you are actually agreeing.

If your being sarcastic then I would reply that 90's train design is based on even older designs which in 2020 need to go the way of the dodo bird. If Bombardier had invested in this newer capability then maybe they would have stood a chance in getting the new regional train fleet instead of CAF. It's not like it isn't possible since Lithgow state mine did this to the 620/720 solar train railmotor and the Adelaide A-City is just an electric Vlo.
simstrain
No sarcasm there. We are still making trains from designs of the 1990's, that have been long obsolete.


Michael

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