Grain Harvest 2020-21

 
  fzr560 Chief Train Controller

BG can only use platform road at Maryborough. Between Ballarat and Korong Vale there are no places for two BG trains to cross. Zero.

What do I miss with your fixation on trains crossing?

@Gman hit it on the head nearly with his suggestion of bigger trains. Instead of 1 big, run 2 normal.

Just run a conga line one way.

IE.
in the AM, 2 up trains from each of Yelta, Sealake, Manangatang. About 1hr separation, or wharever the safe working allows.
in the PM, run the down reverse.

If you need more, then just need to be more attentive to a train running up your R$e. Heaven forbid we actually employ some guards.

thoughhts?
John
Are grain trains allowed to run during daylight hours, in summer, in Victoria?
fzr560
Depends on the line.  Anything that has passenger trains on it rarely has grain trains on them in daytime, for obvious reasons.

Some exceptions:
- Echuca line on a weekday.  i.e. SSR often do an afternoon run into Bendigo yard from Elmore.  Then stable and run into Melb after 21:40.
- Swan Hill line on a Sunday afternoon.  Occasionally an Up grainy then.

Grain trains regularly run in non-passenger sections in daytime.  i.e. North of Maryborough, Echuca, Shepparton, Benalla, and Swan Hill.

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  changer Station Master

Was up at Rainbow last week and spotted an SSR freight being loaded with grain. Was talking to a local who claims the line is so bad that the speed limit is around 25kph. Large number of concrete sleepers stacked in the yard at Rainbow.
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

BG can only use platform road at Maryborough. Between Ballarat and Korong Vale there are no places for two BG trains to cross. Zero.

What do I miss with your fixation on trains crossing?

@Gman hit it on the head nearly with his suggestion of bigger trains. Instead of 1 big, run 2 normal.

Just run a conga line one way.

IE.
in the AM, 2 up trains from each of Yelta, Sealake, Manangatang. About 1hr separation, or wharever the safe working allows.
in the PM, run the down reverse.

If you need more, then just need to be more attentive to a train running up your R$e. Heaven forbid we actually employ some guards.

thoughhts?
John
justarider
not quite right, there is the loop at warrenheip..........not far from Ballarat, easy with proper timing, at best you may have a BG grainy out on the Sea Lake Line and one on the Mangey Line................no problems.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
Was up at Rainbow last week and spotted an SSR freight being loaded with grain. Was talking to a local who claims the line is so bad that the speed limit is around 25kph. Large number of concrete sleepers stacked in the yard at Rainbow.
"changer"


So?

Many regional lines in the US have similarly low speeds.

They don't whinge all the time like we do in Oz, they just get on with the job.
  changer Station Master

Was up at Rainbow last week and spotted an SSR freight being loaded with grain. Was talking to a local who claims the line is so bad that the speed limit is around 25kph. Large number of concrete sleepers stacked in the yard at Rainbow.


So?

Many regional lines in the US have similarly low speeds.

They don't whinge all the time like we do in Oz, they just get on with the job.
bingley hall
Just making an observation BH.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
There is a 1200 metre length limit on all Vline/ Victrack lines in the state. How long is a 40 block grainy with 2/3 locos? I remember it being around 800-900 metres, correct me if I'm wrong.
cbinyon
Why does this limitation exist?

Is it due to the spacing of signalling on parts of the network? Or is it due to loop lengths at certain key crossing locations?

Or (my assumption) is it just 'because that's the way it is'?

Surely there is a way to work around this.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
There is a 1200 metre length limit on all Vline/ Victrack lines in the state. How long is a 40 block grainy with 2/3 locos? I remember it being around 800-900 metres, correct me if I'm wrong.
cbinyon
Why does this limitation exist?

Is it due to the spacing of signalling on parts of the network? Or is it due to loop lengths at certain key crossing locations?

Or (my assumption) is it just 'because that's the way it is'?

Surely there is a way to work around this.
"Gman_86"


Even on mainlines operators rarely exceed 1200 metres for grain trains so are we looking for a problem that doesn't exist?

SSR ran 1.8km grainies interstate for the last 2 years, but PN, QUBE, Aurizon never more than 60 wagons and frequently less.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

A 40 grain wagon consist with two G class locos is 640m long.

Most of the yard sidings and loops are 800 - 1100m long on the BG network.
  cbinyon Chief Train Controller

Location: London, England
Speaking about PN, they ran two rakes last week on BG but are yet to send one out this week. SSR BG loaded at Sea Lake and Nullawil on Sunday/Monday.
  Galron Chief Commissioner

Location: Werribee, Vic
A 40 grain wagon consist with two G class locos is 640m long.

Most of the yard sidings and loops are 800 - 1100m long on the BG network.
Carnot
likely a topic worth its own discussions, but Is the fact we only see 40 wagon trains as a rule up country, and the sidings setup for trains of this length, a side effect of the load rating of the loco's and wagons in use? The coupler forces on a 40 wagon grain train fully loaded up Warrenheip will be considerable. The most forces will be on the last loco connecting to the first wagon. What would you expect the service capacity of those couplers weight wise? could you safely add another 10 or 20 (or more) loaded wagons up such a climb (plus any extra locos needed to pull the load) before you have to start looking at distributed power, or push-pull setups to take the strain off that point?

I have seen in the NSW paperwork load ratings (L3, L4 etc) I take it that these, along with however we do it in vic, are a measure of the load capacity of the train, as in the capacity of things like the couplers are they for gradient/section load calculation reasons?
  Bonzel Junior Train Controller

Speaking about PN, they ran two rakes last week on BG but are yet to send one out this week. SSR BG loaded at Sea Lake and Nullawil on Sunday/Monday.
cbinyon
Rail companies only move the commodity when the seller/buyers pay for it to be shifted to fulfill orders.
  jakar Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
Block grain trains are singled out in the Network Service Plan not to exceed 900m in length including locos. Unfortunately it doesn't mention the reason why.

edit: that is the V/Line NSP, ARTC may be different for their track.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

BG can only use platform road at Maryborough. Between Ballarat and Korong Vale there are no places for two BG trains to cross. Zero.
Carnot
Worse than that for broad gauge trains it is a staggering 170km single line section between crossing locations at Korongvale and Warrenheip, for standard gauge trains 130 plus kms from Maryborough to Tatyoon,
Standard gauge trains can cross at Maryborough, but not two broad gauge trains, A standard and a broad can cross at Maryborough.  With Inglewood  Eaglehawk re-opened the the South bound bg go via Bendigo, and the Northbound bg return via Warrenheip and Dunolly. That way there are no broad gauge crosses between the South and either Korongvale via Warrenheip & Dunolly.

Also with only Northbound bg trains running via Maryborough - Dunolly, frees up sg paths to allow additional sg trains from Murrayville and Mildura lines.

The cheap low cost fix solution to creating more grain paths on both the broad and standard gauge lines of the Murray Basin network. Allows double the number of grain trains daily to run off both Manangatang & Sea Lake lines, and releases at least two extra sg paths a day in the Dunolly  Maryborough section for tarins ex Mildura or Murrayville.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

There is a 1200 metre length limit on all Vline/ Victrack lines in the state. How long is a 40 block grainy with 2/3 locos? I remember it being around 800-900 metres, correct me if I'm wrong.
Why does this limitation exist?

Is it due to the spacing of signalling on parts of the network? Or is it due to loop lengths at certain key crossing locations?

Or (my assumption) is it just 'because that's the way it is'?

Surely there is a way to work around this.
Even on mainlines operators rarely exceed 1200 metres for grain trains so are we looking for a problem that doesn't exist?

SSR ran 1.8km grainies interstate for the last 2 years, but PN, QUBE, Aurizon never more than 60 wagons and frequently less.
bingley hall
The other issue you are forgetting is the length of crossing loops en route and also the ability to handle longer trains on the Geelong dual gauge grain loop.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

A good update on the crop situation on Stock and Land:
https://www.stockandland.com.au/story/6942990/variable-spring-start-paints-wide-ranging-grain-production-picture-across-australia/?cs=4599

In Victoria, the winter crops have been ticking-along quite well for most of the season, and September rainfall was sufficient to boost production estimates in all regions - except the northern Mallee.
NDVI readings are above average across all of the state's winter crop area.
The excellent crop health and favourable early spring weather conditions mean that Victorian production forecasts have increased slightly in September.
These currently stand at about 4.1 million tonnes, 2.1 million tonnes and 0.7 million tonnes for wheat, barley and canola respectively.
  cbinyon Chief Train Controller

Location: London, England
A good update on the crop situation on Stock and Land:
https://www.stockandland.com.au/story/6942990/variable-spring-start-paints-wide-ranging-grain-production-picture-across-australia/?cs=4599

In Victoria, the winter crops have been ticking-along quite well for most of the season, and September rainfall was sufficient to boost production estimates in all regions - except the northern Mallee.
NDVI readings are above average across all of the state's winter crop area.
The excellent crop health and favourable early spring weather conditions mean that Victorian production forecasts have increased slightly in September.
These currently stand at about 4.1 million tonnes, 2.1 million tonnes and 0.7 million tonnes for wheat, barley and canola respectively.
Carnot
Two days of hot weather for the next two days but then cooling down significantly with two big weather systems bringing anywhere from 10 - 50ml across the next week. So hopefully not too much damage will be done. Good rains predicted for the North Mallee too, hoping it's not too late.

http://www.bom.gov.au/jsp/watl/rainfall/pme.jsp
  cbinyon Chief Train Controller

Location: London, England
PN loaded at Charlton yesterday. First loading there in a while. Unloaded at Geelong, unsure if heading out again this evening.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

PN loaded at Charlton yesterday. First loading there in a while. Unloaded at Geelong, unsure if heading out again this evening.
cbinyon
Nope, didn't run last night.

Many crops will be filling out nicely with the rain expected this week....  And yet I'm less and less hopeful of improved BG capacity this season given the rumours on the Fed Budget.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
PN loaded at Charlton yesterday. First loading there in a while. Unloaded at Geelong, unsure if heading out again this evening.
Nope, didn't run last night.

Many crops will be filling out nicely with the rain expected this week....  And yet I'm less and less hopeful of improved BG capacity this season given the rumours on the Fed Budget.
Carnot

Do tell
  Carnot Minister for Railways

PN loaded at Charlton yesterday. First loading there in a while. Unloaded at Geelong, unsure if heading out again this evening.
Nope, didn't run last night.

Many crops will be filling out nicely with the rain expected this week....  And yet I'm less and less hopeful of improved BG capacity this season given the rumours on the Fed Budget.

Do tell
bevans
https://www.facebook.com/WINNewsBendigo/posts/3583819738336785
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
Do tell
https://www.facebook.com/WINNewsBendigo/posts/3583819738336785
Carnot
Thanks Carnot, where do you think the footage was filmed ?

BigShunter.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
https://www.facebook.com/WINNewsBendigo/posts/3583819738336785
Carnot

Although I can see how the money is needed it is not the fault of the federal government when cash is provided and it is wated and the project becomes a disaster.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Do tell
https://www.facebook.com/WINNewsBendigo/posts/3583819738336785
Thanks Carnot, where do you think the footage was filmed ?

BigShunter.
BigShunter
I think that was near Bealiba/St Arnaud back in 2017-18 when the Mildura line was being converted.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
That footage looks to me like Manangatang.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
https://www.facebook.com/WINNewsBendigo/posts/3583819738336785
Carnot
Near the end of that clip Jacinta Allan says she hopes the work will be ready for next year's grain season

I wonder if that means no changes at all to the network are expected this year or if something like Inglewood > Eaglehawk or a crossing loop or 2 could still be on the cards to help out the Sea Lake and Manang lines

The harvest is looking like a big 'un which is likely to mean trucks, trucks and more trucks belting up and down our highways and byways

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