Standard Gauge VLocity

 
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
The solar train in Byron Bay is a perfect example of how you can modernise older rolling stock. They replaced the transmission with an electric motor and removed one of the engines from the 620 class.
"Solar train" is a misnomer, it's got a diesel backup generator that often has to power it; and it only crawls along for three kilometers.
don_dunstan
That sounds familiar ...

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  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
The solar train in Byron Bay is a perfect example of how you can modernise older rolling stock. They replaced the transmission with an electric motor and removed one of the engines from the 620 class.
simstrain
I think a better example would be the conversion of London Underground D78 stock into mainline trains as these received a major overhaul including toilet, diesel/battery power and Wi-Fi among other things.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

"Solar train" is a misnomer, it's got a diesel backup generator that often has to power it; and it only crawls along for three kilometers.

The additional problem(s) with updating old rolling stock are crash-worthiness and structural/frame issues. That's what ultimately killed any chance of refurbishment for the Victorian Railways B class.
don_dunstan

Yes the solar train is slow but your wrong about it using the diesel generator often to power it. It doesn't get used except once in a while to make sure it still works just in case of emergency. My point wasn't that old rolling stock could be used but rather that if really old rolling stock can be converted in such a way then a more recent train should also be able to be converted to more efficient drive systems. I don't think your crash worthiness / structural / frame issue would apply to the vlocity.
  tayser Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
all this bla bla bla CAF are the best chuck out the rest gumpf is a bit naff, no?  Especially when there's an active project for the next-generation of regional trains: https://transport.vic.gov.au/our-transport-future/our-projects/new-and-upgraded-trains-and-trams/planning-next-generation-trains-and-trams

On that, specifically, the next generation should be bi-modal because it's quite conceivable that within a decade there'll be more wires that Vline trains run under - we'll have to wait to see the outcome of the MARL (as a possible Bendigo line deviation and metro separation from main Watergardens section project) and WRP/faster rail to Geelong and Ballarat business cases.

I won't in the slightest be surprised if there's a marked extra emphasis put on running far more Vline services (and running faster services beyond the current fast network) as a result of the post-covid rebuild... the big Melbourne rail projects (SRL, MARL, MM2, WRP) will probably go ahead but beyond that... the N.E. line can't stick to 130kph forever, nor the Melbourne-Seymour-Shepparton, Bendigo-Echuca, Bendigo-Swan Hill, Geelong-Warrnambool, Traralgon-Bairnsdale or Ballarat-Ararat.

The anecdotes are already flying about rental properties being gobbled up in regional areas, it'll take a few months to see if those anecdotes turn into a trend and a policy signal from government might also turn that into a trend.

I wouldn't back it 100% - a policy rebalance - but I certainly wouldn't 100% rule it out either.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

@tayser, that link goes to the next generation of trams and not regional trains.

Bombardier had their chance to win the new regional train fleet but pulled out instead of redesigning the vlocity. We know that bombardier has a solution similar to the CAF in Europe and yet Bombardier in Victoria just used the same old mutton dressed up as lamb. There was a chance to evolve rail in Victoria that has been missed and likely won't be coming up again for 20 or so years.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
I won't in the slightest be surprised if there's a marked extra emphasis put on running far more Vline services (and running faster services beyond the current fast network) as a result of the post-covid rebuild... the big Melbourne rail projects (SRL, MARL, MM2, WRP) will probably go ahead but beyond that... the N.E. line can't stick to 130kph forever, nor the Melbourne-Seymour-Shepparton, Bendigo-Echuca, Bendigo-Swan Hill, Geelong-Warrnambool, Traralgon-Bairnsdale or Ballarat-Ararat.
tayser
I can't see services on these above mentioned lines going above 130 km/h on the basis that the cost per second saved by running over 130 km/h Is rather ridiculous (130 Is the upper threshold for where TPWS required)
Getting these lines up to 130 km/h running would be a vast Improvement In It's self (the Swan Hill line has lengthy sections of 60 km/h running due to level crossing hazards and 90 km/h beyond Kerang)
  route14 Chief Commissioner

That's the main reason why I suggest the transition speed to the third gear be set at 115 km/h instead of around 132.
  ngarner Assistant Commissioner

Location: Seville
Vicsig has posted that VL80 entered service on October 1st.
They appear to have revamped some of the site and either gained a few new volunteers or their existing ones have more time available to maintain it.

Neil
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Vicsig has posted that VL80 entered service on October 1st.
They appear to have revamped some of the site and either gained a few new volunteers or their existing ones have more time available to maintain it.

Neil
ngarner
  bevans Site Admin
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
"Solar train" is a misnomer, it's got a diesel backup generator that often has to power it; and it only crawls along for three kilometers.

The additional problem(s) with updating old rolling stock are crash-worthiness and structural/frame issues. That's what ultimately killed any chance of refurbishment for the Victorian Railways B class.

Yes the solar train is slow but your wrong about it using the diesel generator often to power it. It doesn't get used except once in a while to make sure it still works just in case of emergency. My point wasn't that old rolling stock could be used but rather that if really old rolling stock can be converted in such a way then a more recent train should also be able to be converted to more efficient drive systems. I don't think your crash worthiness / structural / frame issue would apply to the vlocity.
simstrain
Not according to this article written by a Byron local; it needs the diesel generator whenever its cloudy. Sounds like 'part-time solar' train would be a more appropriate name.
  K160 Minister for Railways

Location: Bendigo
This talk of the issues with the Byron Bay Solar train reminds me of this non-rail creation:



Back when the show 'Top Gear' featured the trio of Clarkson-Hammond-May as presenters they 'built' this contraption. Initially power was provided by 2 batteries which went flat. V2.0 saw more batteries fitted and a diesel generator installed to keep the batteries charged. V2.0 became known as the Hammerhead Eagle i-Thrust.
Thus end this slight tangent.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Would the velocity long distance deeding on SG be suitable for a Portland service even with track speed and eight restrictions on the line ?
  Galron Chief Commissioner

Location: Werribee, Vic
Would the velocity long distance deeding on SG be suitable for a Portland service even with track speed and eight restrictions on the line ?
freightgate
Would liketly be as suitable as it would to Melb-Albury. Someone with more knowledge might be able to tell us fuel consumption/range so it might be Portland-Ararat change at Ararat if the range isent there for the full portland-Melbourne trip.

You obviously would need to deal with all the unprotected crossings along the line, as well as other constraining factors. Booms and bells otherwise it's 70kph through the crossing.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Not according to this article written by a Byron local; it needs the diesel generator whenever its cloudy. Sounds like 'part-time solar' train would be a more appropriate name.
don_dunstan

That was in 2018 and there was an issue with an inverter at the time I believe. The problems have been fixed and it runs these days all the time on the solar. As for Solar generation it is byron bay and their aren't that many cloudy days and I believe patronage has improved.
  ngarner Assistant Commissioner

Location: Seville
And VL81 has entered service, at least from today's date:



https://youtu.be/0m3s2njwoaw

Neil
  TOQ-1 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Power Trainger
Would the velocity long distance deeding on SG be suitable for a Portland service even with track speed and eight restrictions on the line ?
Would liketly be as suitable as it would to Melb-Albury. Someone with more knowledge might be able to tell us fuel consumption/range so it might be Portland-Ararat change at Ararat if the range isent there for the full portland-Melbourne trip.

You obviously would need to deal with all the unprotected crossings along the line, as well as other constraining factors. Booms and bells otherwise it's 70kph through the crossing.
Galron
I haven't seen a range for Vlocities posted before, but Bendigo trains routinely go on to form Tralalgon trains on arrival at Southern Cross, so they can obviously run for quite a while without needing to refuel.

Bairnsdale Vlocities are turned around almost straight away so they can comfortably do a return journey of that length.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

Sprinters have a range of 700 km.  I assume similar applies to VLocities.
  jakar Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
According to the fuel range guide in the cab a Vlocity should get around 2000 kilometres out of a full tank, which off the top of my head is 2100 litres.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

Right.  The tank capacity is almost double that of a Sprinter (1100 litres) but the range is almost triple.
  Yappo Station Master

Drivers view between Wodonga and Albury
bevans
Thanks for that as I haven't seen this section since the new station and bypass was opened.

Why is there only single track operations over the old Murray river bridge and thereafter for the section to Albury station? When was the original north track closed for ops?
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
Drivers view between Wodonga and Albury
Thanks for that as I haven't seen this section since the new station and bypass was opened.

Why is there only single track operations over the old Murray river bridge and thereafter for the section to Albury station? When was the original north track closed for ops?
Yappo
I assume when the original broad gauge line got converted, not that you could have two trains in the section with the weight limits on the bridge.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

Interestingly, Marcus Wong wrote in this article: https://wongm.com/2019/06/vline-vlocity-train-diesel-engine-emissions
that the fuel consumption is about 200 litres per 100 km (in simple words, 2 litres per km).  2100 litres will get you 1050 km.  Still about 1.5 times the range of Sprinters.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Drivers view between Wodonga and Albury
Thanks for that as I haven't seen this section since the new station and bypass was opened.

Why is there only single track operations over the old Murray river bridge and thereafter for the section to Albury station? When was the original north track closed for ops?
Yappo
Prior to the sg bypass there were two tracks Wodonga to Albury station on the old alignment one bg into the back platform and sg to the main platform and yard. There were two tracks over Murray River bridge proper one bg and one sg , BUT the signalling was so arranged that that there could pnly be one train on the bridge at any one time.

When the Wodonga by pass thing went in it was the GFC and originally started as single track, then Kevin07 (good friend of Rupert Murdoch !!!!) decided to make it double from the outset. Sadly at that time the second (bg) track between the river and Albury station was removed rather than simply standardized. Just idiotic as it would have cost more to remove the track than just move one rail inwards. Typuical of Railway management and Transport Minsiters in this day and age.  As the old bridge over the Murray River, about time ARTC replaced this as at Wagga with a new bridge and at Albury as two tracks.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
There were two tracks over Murray River bridge proper one bg and one sg , BUT the signalling was so arranged that that there could pnly be one train on the bridge at any one time.
kuldalai
The same thing could be used in the case of running 2 tracks through tunnels on the Bendigo line to counter the problem of the feared Kinetic Envelope. That way double track could be extended from the Down end of Elphinstone Loop to the Up end of Castlemaine which would save a lot of delays.

But of course simpler to just argue about Tunnel Monsters and leave it as it is after all no one is actually accountable for all the delays

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