5711 What if

 
  studdo Locomotive Fireman

No, attached to the second, as per the outside motion. But there's a gooseneck in the leading driving axle to avoid hitting the internal conrod as it goes around.
apw5910
The problems that neillfarmer sets out relating to the inside cylinder also applied to Victoria's S class, which is why Harold Young never seriously considered a 3 cylinder design when developing what became the 38 class. The H class used Henschel gear that apparently worked very well but it came out over 3 years after the 38s had been designed, so it's probably unlikely that Young considered using Henschel gear although he may well have been aware of it.

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  Lockspike Deputy Commissioner

The concept also the engine off the Moss Vale pax sat at Moss Vale facing the south as pilot for mails in case of failure.
a6et
My father was signalman at Mossy in the late 50s - early 60s. I remember him talking about the 38 sitting in Sth Dock facing Sth until the expresses had gone. It would then go to be turned and serviced, and sit the rest of the night facing Nth until time to work No.50 back to Sydney.
  a6et Minister for Railways

Yes a6at, i agree with your comments.
People may wonder why the 57s were maintenance monsters compared to the 60s, both being similar in capacity. The problem with the 57s was the third centre cylinder and its associated motion. Like all 3 cylinder  power the centre big end bearings tended to run hot and the motion was subject to dust thrown up by the loco. Its inaccessibility meant that although it was a weakness inspection was often neglected. As the Gresley motion wore the slack altered the valve events causing the cylinder to do more work adding to the problem. The 60s could be easily split into 3 sections and the motion, all outside, was lighter than the heavy rods of the 57. Towards the end several 57s were run as 2 cylinder locomotives for short periods but their capacity in this form was limited to not much more than a standard goods. I think 6029 will offer enough challenges to the maintenance staff, a 57 would offer much more and drain rescources away from other more suitable engines.
neillfarmer
Thanks Neil, I did not mean in my first post regarding the 59's that it was a permanent thing with them being pilots.  What I found interesting with the 59's was that the firebox having the same grate area as the 38's was that it seemed to be of a different measurement, or some other reason as I found getting coal to the extreme left and right hand sides of the front of the box a lot harder than on 38cl. I had a lot of times with them having a dead section in the front corners, and never on the 38's, I know of others who said similar comments.

I agree with you on the 57 vses 60, especially regarding ease of maintenance, how often I saw the front tank and less often the bunkers removed for access to the engines and working. A quid for each one would have been nice little pay bonuses.
  dm211060 Station Staff

Thanks all for info in this thread.

Re 5711, the extra maintenance issues from the inside cylinder do seem a worry but,  when it would be very far from running every day, would they be less of a worry? Also it would hardly be shaking itself to bits pulling maybe 450 tonne passenger trains at most ...

The issue of finding available paths
for a 65km/h engine
among faster trains seems a bigger barrier to me. But would that be such a problem if it were doing Blue Mountains tours and either direction of Moss Vale - Unanderra - Sydney? (assuming its allowed on Unanderra - Moss Vale?)

Meanwhile, does anyone know what shape 5908 and 5916 are in, even if one has to be cannibalised for the other,  given that (1) the 59s are handy for route availability and passable for speed at least on some routes and (2) as the fire ban season gets longer as it will continue to do, an oil burner could be a really useful engine?
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
Meanwhile, does anyone know what shape 5908 and 5916 are in, even if one has to be cannibalised for the other,  given that (1) the 59s are handy for route availability and passable for speed at least on some routes and (2) as the fire ban season gets longer as it will continue to do, an oil burner could be a really useful engine?
dm211060
Both are in extremely poor condition, 5908 looks good externally but internally it is very deteriorated, 5916 has no parts in good condition and is probably one of the most deteriorated NSW steam locomotives
Look at the extent of the deterioration- https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:5916
Both were cannibalised heavily (16 more so) for the restoration and operation of 5910 in the 80s and 90s

As I said in one of the earlier posts on this thread, 5910 is probably going to be the next THNSW operational restoration owing to it's good mechanical condition and the simplicity of the repairs needed

While oil burners are good for the fire seasons they are not well liked by crews for many reasons
  a6et Minister for Railways

Meanwhile, does anyone know what shape 5908 and 5916 are in, even if one has to be cannibalised for the other,  given that (1) the 59s are handy for route availability and passable for speed at least on some routes and (2) as the fire ban season gets longer as it will continue to do, an oil burner could be a really useful engine?
Both are in extremely poor condition, 5908 looks good externally but internally it is very deteriorated, 5916 has no parts in good condition and is probably one of the most deteriorated NSW steam locomotives
Look at the extent of the deterioration- https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:5916
Both were cannibalised heavily (16 more so) for the restoration and operation of 5910 in the 80s and 90s

As I said in one of the earlier posts on this thread, 5910 is probably going to be the next THNSW operational restoration owing to it's good mechanical condition and the simplicity of the repairs needed

While oil burners are good for the fire seasons they are not well liked by crews for many reasons
DCook
If my memory serves me correctly, both oily 59's sat in the open for many many years, and a fair bit of that time at BMD, they are both at Goulburn now, one looks fair the other a fail. I worked a couple of them prior to conversion to coal, and was never so glad to get out of the cabs on them, no matter how one adjusted the oil flow and atomiser when working hard you never got rid of the Thump Thump sound of the fire in the firebox, and the resultant headache.

While the idea of oil firing seems good, to get the best out of them one needed decent oil rather than much of the old mixtures used on them, when you finished a shift on them the stench of the oil permeated through your clothes and body, took a couple of days for the smell to get out of the skin, as well.

The thought of sitting on a seat and not having to swing the shovel sounds appealing as it meant a lot less work, but keeping a watch on the Boiler Pressure told you when to put sand through the tubes, make sure the roof hatch was closed as you did not get any of the hot unburnt muck that built up inside the tubes.  Although that was a good thing to do on the Rozelle goods line in school holidays or before and after school as kids would hang over the road bridges with bricks in hand trying to drop them into the funnel or through the cab roof hatch, the oil and thicker smoke got rid of them and we were immune from the bricks though.

The sand also had adverse affects on the tubes as well as they needed replacement a bit more frequently than the coal versions. Most depots had change/locker rooms for enginemen as well as other depot workers, many an engineman would have an old pair of overalls in their locker for working on oil burners, saved their normal clothes from the oil globules if the hatch was open and got on your clothes. As the 59's were converted to coal burning, the second pair of overalls were pretty much used only for preparing/oiling engines for your shift on them.
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
An official statement was released by THNSW today on 5711 in their September board wrap up
The Board considered the potential for returning locomotive 5711 to operational service as part of the THNSW operational fleet.

The Board concluded that, whilst it is possible, now is not the right time and there are other organisational priorities for the available funding, and thus it does not intend to fund or progress a return to operational service of locomotive 5711 in the short to medium term.

The Board supported the development of a three-year plan to restore, preserve, protect and display 5711, noting that such a plan should not preclude a return to operational service in the longer term. The plan, to be developed, will need to include consideration of the available resources, and the appropriate location for the work to be undertaken. The plan will then need to be further considered and approved by the Board. Funding will need to be secured before any restoration work can commence.
THNSW
https://www.thnsw.com.au/post/board-wrap-up-september-2020
  K160 Minister for Railways

Location: Bendigo
Well it was to be expected in the current climate I guess. The return of 3801 and soon 3001 fill roles that suit the current operations. 5711 would still be one of those 'be nice to do but when and if we can make it work' projects.
  menangletrains Station Master

Recently in the Webinar- held by the T.H. N.S.W. -On line, The question was asked about a possible Restoration of STEAM LOCOMOTIVE  5711 ,currently stored in the open at the Valley Heights Locomotive Museum.
And the answer that was given was this. It is NOT high on the list to be restored in the near future.
As the focus currently is on the LOOP LINE -Project .From PICTON to COLO VALE,  and THE HERITAGE HUB at CHULLORA.
They are the 2 biggest projects that are taking priority.

Work on 5 7 1 1 , would be another BIG project, and would require a lot of money to complete. Just like 6029.

Dave Innis.

MENANGLE.N.S.W.
  Sidewinder Locomotive Fireman

I think the one main problem in the future will be if there are enough skilled volunteers or workers in THNSW itself, as I said in my thread about the possibility of a THNSW youth volunteer program, it seems that there is an ever diminishing amount of young people entering not just preservation but the railways as a whole

If there are not enough people trained in these vanishing trades and works before all the old hands die then the whole tourist railway industry will collapse for certain
DCook

Being a fitter by trade i would be more than willing to get involved on a full time basis but unless they are paying award or above wages it can't be done. (The wife would shoot me if i spent any more time at work!)

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