Murray Basin standardisation

 
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

I wonder if the feds will ask for something in return. Maybe handing over all the SG lines to the ARTC for good and not leasing.

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  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
What's Rainbow got to do with MBRP?
kitchgp

The report did say near Rainbow.

Mike.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

North Ballarat - Maryborough currently Automatic and Track Control (ATC). Probably require 4 x Departure Homes, 2 x Arrival Homes and 200 - 300m extra length for the buffer zone.
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

Standardising the Korong Vale group off the cards...

https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/state-seeking-195-million-extra-federal-funding-for-murray-rail-project

Revised business case doesn't stack up. Focus will be on improving the Yelta line.

The business case includes:

The revised business case propses:
  • Re-railing the Maryborough-Ararat line to improve journey times and allow all trains to run at 21 TAL.
  • New passing loops to allow for more freight paths, as well as new or upgraded sidings at Maryborough, Donald and Merbein to improve flexibility in the network.
  • Re-sleepering work on sections of the Sea Lake and Manangatang lines, the Mildura-Yelta line and on the Ouyen Murrayville line are also proposed to help boost speeds, as well as structural assessments to investigate what works are required to introduce 134-tonne locomotives.


No talk of converting the Ballarat to Geelong Line to SG or DG and no mention of the conversion of the Ballarat to Maryborough line.

For the re sleepering of Sea Lake and Manangatang lines, now is the perfect opportunity for the recycled plastic railway sleepers to be used.
bevans

I am inclined to think that they will limit their efforts and expenditure to make the existing SG lines achieve their potential. So I would not hold your breath for either Ballarat to Geelong OR Ballarat to Maryborough converting to either SG or DG. The final nail in the coffin for this idea will be when V Line reopen Ballarat to Geelong for pax -  V Locities, and then upgrade the current BG line with BG replacement concrete sleepers.

Coming back to the SG line issue. I think that re railing all the way, so not just from Ararat to Maryborough, but then on to Mildura with new 47 kg rail is the way to go.
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
No talk of converting the Ballarat to Geelong Line to SG or DG and no mention of the conversion of the Ballarat to Maryborough line.
bevans


This is absolute garbage.  

SG trains are further handicapped with hundreds of extra kms and cost.
  NSWGR8022 Deputy Commissioner

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech
No upgrade of the line between Maryborough and Ballarat North or laying of 2nd track being standard gauge?

This makes no sense to the overall issues and the capacity unless it is included under the Ballarat freight separation project which has gone rather quite.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

No upgrade of the line between Maryborough and Ballarat North or laying of 2nd track being standard gauge?

This makes no sense to the overall issues and the capacity unless it is included under the Ballarat freight separation project which has gone rather quite.
"NSWGR8022"


Put simply, with new BG passenger services coming online they haven't worked out a cost effective way to get SG freight with high frequency through Ballarat.  That's in the "Too Hard" basket.

Ararat to Maryborough is likely to get a new loop put in (probably near Avoca) from what I've heard.
  NSWGR8022 Deputy Commissioner

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech

Put simply, with new BG passenger services coming online they haven't worked out a cost effective way to get SG freight with high frequency through Ballarat.  That's in the "Too Hard" basket.

Ararat to Maryborough is likely to get a new loop put in (probably near Avoca) from what I've heard.
Carnot

What a disaster and a backward step the entire process making it more expensive for operators to work.  At least they will place more roads back at Maryborough to stage trains and reconnect the fuel point?

On the issue of Ballarat are you saying the freight project is already dead?
  Carnot Minister for Railways


Put simply, with new BG passenger services coming online they haven't worked out a cost effective way to get SG freight with high frequency through Ballarat.  That's in the "Too Hard" basket.

Ararat to Maryborough is likely to get a new loop put in (probably near Avoca) from what I've heard.
Carnot

What a disaster and a backward step the entire process making it more expensive for operators to work.  At least they will place more roads back at Maryborough to stage trains and reconnect the fuel point?

On the issue of Ballarat are you saying the freight project is already dead?
"NSWGR8022"


99% dead, buried, and in Memoriam.  It's basically a "Salvage what we can" from existing SG lines to make them work more efficiently.
  NSWGR8022 Deputy Commissioner

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech
But that is not a solution to the problems created by the poor implementation of the original plan.  Is Ballarat dead?
  Galron Chief Commissioner

Location: Werribee, Vic
Another cluster waiting to happen. Will be interesting to see what the feds have to say. given current relations, I'm expecting a firm and stout middle finger. I'd be interested to learn what the original proposal costed out to complete, along with the ROI. I have great respect with how this government is dealing with some matters at present, however their project management leaves a lot to be desired.

Defiantly agree with others when they say if the states want federal money, they need to hand over all SG track to ARTC. While their record on major projects in this state isent the best, they probably could do a better job that the state seems to be capable of.

A significant disappointment.

a couple of fancy flyers for people to look at

http://media.news.com.au/weeklytimes/pdf/Murray-Basin-Rail-Project-Revised-Business-Case.pdf

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi5gezvxcLsAhWd63MBHS3lAdIQFjACegQIAxAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftransport.vic.gov.au%2F-%2Fmedia%2Ftfv-documents%2Fmbrp-business-case-review---exec-summary.pdf%3Fla%3Den%26hash%3D1DB04136A6E470877A4F9FECB32217D4&usg=AOvVaw0T3ad4FGU814MMho_kHu1p
  LancedDendrite Chief Commissioner

Location: Gheringhap Loop Autonomous Zone
This is an absolute disgrace. If the Feds actually gave a toss about rail freight they'd step in, throw out this pathetic attempt at a revised business case and finish the whole bloody project as it was originally outlined.
And while we're at it, make some heads roll in the public (and private) sectors.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Yes.Read article available on Stock and Land or Ballarat Courier website.

Option Victoria put to Feds for funding was $ 244m in total 90 % funded by Feds !!!! Simply leave MB basically as is but re-rail Ararat - Maryborough restore more roads at Maryborough, Donald & Merbein. Additional crossing loops not specified where. Electronic Train Orders thats it.

Feds have said NO to further funding at this stage, so nothing is going to happen fast, at least for 2 - 3 years.  Even if the lot were funded today what are we going to do in the face of forthcoming bumper grain harvest , thousands more trucks on the roads or re-activate Inglewood  Eaglehawk as a safety relief valve ? The half converted network is seriously deficient in capacity and simply not acceptable to allow 60 % of harvest to be on road, when it can easily be 60 % on rail simpy by re-activating Inglewood  Eaglehawk as fit for purpose 40 - 50kmh freight operations. Too much time lost already as 10 week job to re-activate, allocate the $ 30m NOW and get on with it so rail capacity is available by late February , 2021.

Any crossing loop between Maryborough & Ararat would best be sited arounded Elmshurst as previously, owing to placement of level crossings and gradients and straightish track alignment in that area.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Half way between Propodolla and Kinimakatka
What's Rainbow got to do with MBRP?
kitchgp
It's a Wizard of Oz sorta thing
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
What upsets me is the way the minister has tried to blame the federal government for their decision to not provide further funding. How would they do any different ?

They provided a lot of money which has been misappropriated and in some ways wasted. How could they give anymore ?

Jacinta Allan needs to take responsibility for the situation and act professionally to make it work but unfortunately she has decided to attack the feds on Twitter. She simply is not the right person for the job.
  Richard stroker Junior Train Controller

From a simpleton point of view ,
Your the CEO  (feds) and one of your managers puts a proposal with a business case and quote to you ( vic ) to do something of significance to make a difference.
The feds agree , give vic the money to deliver what was promised.
Heaven forbids the vics did a hotel quarantine job of managing the project and then ask for more money to bail them out.
Seriously, what do you think the answer will be .
Has anyone ever had a quote from a trade and then paid them extra afterwards to fix up their dodgy work?
  Rossco T Chief Train Controller

Location: Camberwell, Victoria
The disbenefits of Option C have increased: due to the increased potential for conflict with current and future passenger services on the Gheringhap to Ballarat section and through the Ballarat Corridor.
MBRP Business Case Review
Did anyone notice the above comment in the Business Case Review document?  What future passenger services are they referring to along the Gheringhap to Ballarat corridor and could this mean changes at Warrenheip to provide dual BG tracks for Wendouree Pass services?

Ross
  Z VAN Locomotive Driver

From a simpleton point of view ,
Your the CEO  (feds) and one of your managers puts a proposal with a business case and quote to you ( vic ) to do something of significance to make a difference.
The feds agree , give vic the money to deliver what was promised.
Heaven forbids the vics did a hotel quarantine job of managing the project and then ask for more money to bail them out.
Seriously, what do you think the answer will be .
Has anyone ever had a quote from a trade and then paid them extra afterwards to fix up their dodgy work?
Above post by Richard Stoker.

You are certainly not simple Mr Richard Soker.!!

In the interests of Libel and any other Legal term I cannot post a reply in regards to my feelings to the Absolute Dismal out come of such a wonderfully potential Rail advancement in Victoria and ultimately Australian Transport.
If you had asked a saboteur to take charge of the project you could not have expected such a brilliant outcome.  
I despair.
PTE.
  Rossco T Chief Train Controller

Location: Camberwell, Victoria
Additional crossing loops not specified where.
kuldalai

The Business Case Review Summary document that Galron linked to earlier suggested that new crossing loops would be provided at Tourello and somewhere between Maryborough and Ararat and that the existing one at Emu would be extended.

Ross
  Inland_Sailor Junior Train Controller

Good. They have finally seen sense. Hopefully Maryborough gets a partially DG yard and BG lines get some more passing loops.
Dangersdan707
DD and I always disagree on this, but if rail is going to survive in Regional Victoria, the existing lines that are left must be converted to SG. Retaining BG in Regional Vic is only going to continue the trend over time of line closures.
  justarider Deputy Commissioner

Location: Free at last, free at last
From a simpleton point of view ,
Your the CEO  (feds) and one of your managers puts a proposal with a business case and quote to you ( vic ) to do something of significance to make a difference.
The feds agree , give vic the money to deliver what was promised.
Heaven forbids the vics did a hotel quarantine job of managing the project and then ask for more money to bail them out.
Seriously, what do you think the answer will be .
Has anyone ever had a quote from a trade and then paid them extra afterwards to fix up their dodgy work?
Above post by Richard Stoker.

You are certainly not simple Mr Richard Soker.!!

In the interests of Libel and any other Legal term I cannot post a reply in regards to my feelings to the Absolute Dismal out come of such a wonderfully potential Rail advancement in Victoria and ultimately Australian Transport.
If you had asked a saboteur to take charge of the project you could not have expected such a brilliant outcome.  
I despair.
PTE.
Z VAN
I might as well reply to you @Z as any other.

What a lot of cods, DangerDan is on the money.

Traffic of goods from NW Victoria is all about getting goods to port : Portland, Geelong, Melbourne

The guage means nothing. Maybe a minor efficiency issue, availabilty of rolling stock.

The fortuiotus movement of grain  on SG to drought affected NSW is a short term lucky fluke.

For all that; tear up and re-do the tracks, repace the locos and cars. What is new  or better - nothing.

Having said all that, SG nation wide is inevitable.  Just don't expect Vic to pay for a gunzel NSW dream. Qld/SA don't.

With MBRP , Vic stuffed up badly:  thinking that converting to the Fed view of the world wouldn't cost much, and that the Feds would stump up.
Wrong twice.

So here we are with a half done job, with neither Vic or Feds wiling to fix.
At least Vic have some sort of a plan and are putting some money into fixing some severely broken bits ( rainbow, sealake)

Oh dear
John
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

It is hard to tell exactly what is in the revised business case put to the Australian Government. The MBRP Business Case Review, linked above, seems like a hodgepodge of individual projects arranged in order of preference, ie Minimum Scope, Option A, etc. As the costs of each have been redacted, you can’t tell if all, or only some, of them total $244 million. It’s as if the Victorian Government is saying give us $195 million, we’ll bang in $49 million and we’ll see what we can do.

There’s no timeline for completion of any option, other than “The recommendation is to progress the Minimum Scope immediately ………..”, the Minimum Scope being:
  • Business Case development and sleeper storage costs
  • Ararat Junction: complete signalling works
  • Ararat to Maryborough – re-rail 88km of track
Hopefully, sleepers used as part of the project or for routine maintenance on any BG sections, such as Gheringhap – Ballarat – Maryborough including the proposed Tourello Loop, will be gauge-convertible or DG.

PS: It would be interesting to know if 10 years plus of SG trains travelling an extra 270 km round trip, plus the stunting of future growth, was costed.
PPS: Whatever happened to the $135 million ‘factored into the 2018/19 budget’ for the Freight - Passenger Rail Separation Project?

https://www.thecourier.com.au/story/5493470/state-to-splash-130-million-to-separate-passenger-and-freight-trains-in-town/
  justarider Deputy Commissioner

Location: Free at last, free at last
It is hard to tell exactly what is in the revised business case... The MBRP Business Case Review, linked above, seems like a hodgepodge .......
kitchgp
Indeed a bit strange. Perhaps a bit of realism of what can be screwed out of the Feds.

Add another zero to the price tag for a proper project that is required. Feds wont pay it, and Vic don't have it, users ha ha ha.

Then again, so politically Fed incorrect,  no chance of happening. Blame games coming up.
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

Having said all that, SG nation wide is inevitable.  Just don't expect Vic to pay for a gunzel NSW dream. Qld/SA don't.
justarider

And that idea worked *really* well in SA, didn't it?
  james.au Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW
Can someone link the actual revised business case?  I cannot seem to find it.

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