New VLocity trains now in service, with more on the way

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 11 Nov 2020 12:48
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Just incredible.

We have needed these trains for a while and I glad the government has ordered them and they will be welcome on the routes they will service.

“It’s great news for regional Victoria that these new trains are on the network, to ensure we can deliver reliable services for passengers.” Before the new timetable comes into effect, the increased rollingstock will enable greater flexibility for V/Line to perform maintenance on other trains, without disruptions to services.

This further reduces the risk of trains being replaced by coaches or limited capacity.

The trains have been redesigned to include new accessibility features as well as dedicated spaces for bicycles. Other improvements include tray tables on more seats than previous models. All trains have seating for 222 passengers, and contain quiet carriages, onboard toilets, and mobile signal boosters.
Vline

The fact we still have so many coach replacements is a issue in itself and more needs to be done to have spare rolling stock available to deal with the unexpected as many other operators do.  Until this is achieved V/Line will be seen as unreliable which it is today.

Mentions a new timetable when is this due?

New VLocity trains now in service, with more on the way

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  Carnot Minister for Railways

Just incredible.

We have needed these trains for a while and I glad the government has ordered them and they will be welcome on the routes they will service.

“It’s great news for regional Victoria that these new trains are on the network, to ensure we can deliver reliable services for passengers.” Before the new timetable comes into effect, the increased rollingstock will enable greater flexibility for V/Line to perform maintenance on other trains, without disruptions to services.

This further reduces the risk of trains being replaced by coaches or limited capacity.

The trains have been redesigned to include new accessibility features as well as dedicated spaces for bicycles. Other improvements include tray tables on more seats than previous models. All trains have seating for 222 passengers, and contain quiet carriages, onboard toilets, and mobile signal boosters.
Vline

The fact we still have so many coach replacements is a issue in itself and more needs to be done to have spare rolling stock available to deal with the unexpected as many other operators do.  Until this is achieved V/Line will be seen as unreliable which it is today.

Mentions a new timetable when is this due?

New VLocity trains now in service, with more on the way
"bevans"


January 31, 2021 when HCMT is introduced and Ballarat upgrade is complete.

The VL80-88 sets took nearly a year to be introduced due to signal sighting issues/windscreen glare problems with the new cabin design.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
I do wonder about the value of continuing to buy more and more DMU's when we need to really be going electrification on Geelong and Ballarat.  Makes no sense to me and is a lazy approach to climate change and capital allocation.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

I do wonder about the value of continuing to buy more and more DMU's when we need to really be going electrification on Geelong and Ballarat.  Makes no sense to me and is a lazy approach to climate change and capital allocation.
"bevans"


With Shepparton and Warrnambool going to V/Los in the next few years, they'll still be a need for them to replace decommissioned N-sets.
  jakar Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
The fact we still have so many coach replacements is a issue in itself and more needs to be done to have spare rolling stock available to deal with the unexpected as many other operators do.
Bevans
Interesting comments Bevans. How many 'unexpected' coach replacements occur per week? How do other operators deal with this? What are your thoughts on how V/Line should deal with the 'unexpected'?
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

I do wonder about the value of continuing to buy more and more DMU's when we need to really be going electrification on Geelong and Ballarat.  Makes no sense to me and is a lazy approach to climate change and capital allocation.
bevans
VLine needs to commit to buying bi-mode trains from now on. The biggest hurdle to electrification is sunk cost. No government wants to spend the $10B on electrifying to Geelong and buying the required train sets (even if branded Metro, still need to buy new as not enough slack at Metro).
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
I do wonder about the value of continuing to buy more and more DMU's when we need to really be going electrification on Geelong and Ballarat.  Makes no sense to me and is a lazy approach to climate change and capital allocation.
VLine needs to commit to buying bi-mode trains from now on. The biggest hurdle to electrification is sunk cost. No government wants to spend the $10B on electrifying to Geelong and buying the required train sets (even if branded Metro, still need to buy new as not enough slack at Metro).
John.Z
1500VDC to Geelong/Ballarat would be quite expensive, the more modern 25,000VAC as we have here in Adelaide (and Perth, Brisbane) would be the way to go. But there's no apparent will from the Victorian government to consider long distance electric trains so I think the whole thing will remain permanently on the shelf.

The UK now has dual electric/diesel sets in operation there made for them by Hitachi - it isn't out of the realms of possibility that these things can be achieved.
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

A question regarding the current V Locity fleet. They are currently diesel hydraulic. Can they be converted over to diesel electric? They already have the diesel engine. Can the hydraulic transmission be replaced with traction motors and a sufficient generator installed to power them?
If the answer is yes, then we can go bi modal by inserting a trailer car with a pantograph on the roof and the electrical distribution system under the floor. Bombardier can then adapt the pantograph trailer car from their Adelaide EMU for this purpose.
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

A question regarding the current V Locity fleet. They are currently diesel hydraulic. Can they be converted over to diesel electric? They already have the diesel engine. Can the hydraulic transmission be replaced with traction motors and a sufficient generator installed to power them?
If the answer is yes, then we can go bi modal by inserting a trailer car with a pantograph on the roof and the electrical distribution system under the floor. Bombardier can then adapt the pantograph trailer car from their Adelaide EMU for this purpose.
Duncs
If we still had Comeng, then undoubtedly this would be possible.

Private contractors would price this to make it more expensive than off the shelf solutions because they don't want to do this work. They (Bombardier, Alstom etc) don't have any incentive to recycle, because they don't save any money doing so. One of the fallacies of outsourcing all public service work.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

A question regarding the current V Locity fleet. They are currently diesel hydraulic. Can they be converted over to diesel electric? They already have the diesel engine. Can the hydraulic transmission be replaced with traction motors and a sufficient generator installed to power them?
If the answer is yes, then we can go bi modal by inserting a trailer car with a pantograph on the roof and the electrical distribution system under the floor. Bombardier can then adapt the pantograph trailer car from their Adelaide EMU for this purpose.
Duncs
The answer is yes. Bombardier have technology just as CAF does with the new NSW regional fleet to make the new vlocities diesel electric and bi modal. There should be no reason why the diesel electric technology couldn't be installed in the vlocity fleet.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
I do wonder about the value of continuing to buy more and more DMU's when we need to really be going electrification on Geelong and Ballarat.  Makes no sense to me and is a lazy approach to climate change and capital allocation.
bevans
The way the State Government Is going, the State Is gong to be broke In no time

Déjà vu
https://www.news.com.au/national/andrews-far-worse-than-cainkirner-government-of-1990s/video/540d3b40b5dbfcdd7b54322e738ced05
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
The fact we still have so many coach replacements is a issue in itself and more needs to be done to have spare rolling stock available to deal with the unexpected as many other operators do.
Interesting comments Bevans. How many 'unexpected' coach replacements occur per week? How do other operators deal with this? What are your thoughts on how V/Line should deal with the 'unexpected'?
jakar
Indeed, it would be very interesting to get figures on services run as trains vs bustituted as a percentage of services and / or kilometres in Vic vs other states and other places worldwide with similar sized networks.

It would also be interesting to compare how various above ground operators deal with track maintenance and upgrades and other expected outages, whether they prioritise shutdowns or doing the work "between trains"

And of course to compare and contrast the pay grade and safe working qualifications of their respective Buffet attendants Laughing
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
I do wonder about the value of continuing to buy more and more DMU's when we need to really be going electrification on Geelong and Ballarat.  Makes no sense to me and is a lazy approach to climate change and capital allocation.
The way the State Government Is going, the State Is gong to be broke In no time

Déjà vu
https://www.news.com.au/national/andrews-far-worse-than-cainkirner-government-of-1990s/video/540d3b40b5dbfcdd7b54322e738ced05
Nightfire
Debt is the ticking time-bomb and yet nobody seems to be concerned about it. My own state government has just committed billions to building bored tunnels for the north/south motorway project and increased projected state debt to $33 billion and yet nobody has batted an eyelid. This is far more than Bannon left the SA government with at the time of the State Bank disaster yet nobody seems to think its a problem.

Anyway IF an electrification of the trunk routes occurs it would make sense to use 25,000vac as that would appear to be the standard both here and overseas. Apparently Malcolm Fraser once offered to electrify the Sydney-Melbourne route but nobody could agree on what standards to use or how to do it so the whole idea was dropped. Interesting to imagine what might have happened should it have gone ahead.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
I do wonder about the value of continuing to buy more and more DMU's when we need to really be going electrification on Geelong and Ballarat.  Makes no sense to me and is a lazy approach to climate change and capital allocation.
The way the State Government Is going, the State Is gong to be broke In no time

Déjà vu
https://www.news.com.au/national/andrews-far-worse-than-cainkirner-government-of-1990s/video/540d3b40b5dbfcdd7b54322e738ced05
Nightfire

You send a link from a Murdoch publication and expect it to be an honest representation of the facts....FAIL Exclamation

M.
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner

Debt is the ticking time-bomb and yet nobody seems to be concerned about it. My own state government has just committed billions to building bored tunnels for the north/south motorway project and increased projected state debt to $33 billion and yet nobody has batted an eyelid. This is far more than Bannon left the SA government with at the time of the State Bank disaster yet nobody seems to think its a problem.

Anyway IF an electrification of the trunk routes occurs it would make sense to use 25,000vac as that would appear to be the standard both here and overseas. Apparently Malcolm Fraser once offered to electrify the Sydney-Melbourne route but nobody could agree on what standards to use or how to do it so the whole idea was dropped. Interesting to imagine what might have happened should it have gone ahead.
don_dunstan
Both governments and the public appear to have a higher appetite for debt these days, as long as it's used in a productive manner that boosts the GDP.

25kV does make sense for electrification, but when has any government here done something which is logical and make sense. Even the LXRA manages to be illogical and waste money.
  NSWGR8022 Deputy Commissioner

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech

25kV does make sense for electrification, but when has any government here done something which is logical and make sense. Even the LXRA manages to be illogical and waste money.
John.Z

I agree with this statement.  Electrification now makes perfect sense when you also consider the battery purchase in Victoria (the largest in the world) and what what that power could be used for in running trains.  I am not sure why electrification was not done immediate and with the RRL right through to Colac.  The logical projects just do not get done.

Electrifying the Ballarat and Geelong lines should be a priority which i you recall has been pointed out as a viable business case announced this year.  Maybe Seymour also?

There are too many vline DMU's running around and they use a lot of diesel and pollute the railway station at SCS.  A lot would benefit from clean transport services to regional centres.

I guess the issue might be trains into and out of Ballarat would still need to be run out the downside lines?
  route14 Chief Commissioner

How much further is that?
  NSWGR8022 Deputy Commissioner

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech
How much further is that?
route14

Is what?
  route14 Chief Commissioner

Where they run out of, say Wendouree?
  NSWGR8022 Deputy Commissioner

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech
Where they run out of, say Wendouree?
route14

Wendouree and Ararat and Maryborough which means people would need to change at Ballarat but so this happens everywhere in the UK and USA
  route14 Chief Commissioner

Ararat only has five ups and four downs (looks odd but that's another subject) so it wouldn't be too much of a problem if they were diesel under wires although the engineering of another bi-modal type would be ideal.  Wendouree doesn't look much further so it makes good sense to have it included in the electrified section if you've got to Ballarat anyway.
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
Ararat only has five ups and four downs (looks odd but that's another subject) so it wouldn't be too much of a problem if they were diesel under wires although the engineering of another bi-modal type would be ideal.  Wendouree doesn't look much further so it makes good sense to have it included in the electrified section if you've got to Ballarat anyway.
route14
Ballarat trains now all originate in Wendouree, which is only a couple of kilometres further on from Ballarat.  

You could not electrify to Ballarat and not do to Wendouree,  unless you are V/Line ....
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Ararat only has five ups and four downs (looks odd but that's another subject) so it wouldn't be too much of a problem if they were diesel under wires although the engineering of another bi-modal type would be ideal.  Wendouree doesn't look much further so it makes good sense to have it included in the electrified section if you've got to Ballarat anyway.
route14
There is currently Down Ety Cars each Weekday am to form first Up. Reason until recently only able to stable 1 x 3 VL set overnight at Ararat.  Second siding has been complete for months so NOT clear why VLP did not delete the early am Down Ety cars and extend the 1633 Dn Wendouree to terminate Axt and stable overnight already. Anyway no doubt that will be part of the big 31/01/21  tt change with the am Dn Ety cars  Weekdays Ballarat - Ararat being amexed, and the existing 1633 Dn Wendouree/Maryborough becoming a 1633 Dn  Ararat/Maryborough splitting at Ballarat no doubt.  That gives Ararat 5 each way on Weekdays and the first longer distance VLP location to realize that frequency. Next Up Warrnambool goes to 5 each way on Weekdays from late 2021 on commissioning Boorcan Loop and CTC signalling to replace Train Orders on Warrnambool line.

PS With the new Ararat Weekday timetable the 1740ish  Dn Ararat ex Ballarat will go down on the Ticket and the Staff follows on the 1933 ish Down as now.  In the mornings as now first Up on the Ticket and second Up on the Staff.  Old safeworking system but very safe low cost and quite adequate for this level of balanced traffic. Staff & Ticket section is actually  wendouree - Ararat.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

A question regarding the current V Locity fleet. They are currently diesel hydraulic. Can they be converted over to diesel electric? They already have the diesel engine. Can the hydraulic transmission be replaced with traction motors and a sufficient generator installed to power them?
If the answer is yes, then we can go bi modal by inserting a trailer car with a pantograph on the roof and the electrical distribution system under the floor. Bombardier can then adapt the pantograph trailer car from their Adelaide EMU for this purpose.
If we still had Comeng, then undoubtedly this would be possible.

Private contractors would price this to make it more expensive than off the shelf solutions because they don't want to do this work. They (Bombardier, Alstom etc) don't have any incentive to recycle, because they don't save any money doing so. One of the fallacies of outsourcing all public service work.
John.Z
I don't think Comeng would have had the resources to develop a bi-mode system.

The way for Victoria to achieve it would be to put out a competitive tender for the upgrade of VLocity cars.

If Bombardier were to win it, adapting the centre car from the Perth B-Series by fitting broad gauge bogies would be a better move than using the Adelaide A-City design. The A-City is an all new body design which takes advantage of the wider loading gauge available in SA and could not be used in Victoria.

All the control electronics would need to be replaced as part of a bi-mode conversion, so it would be about the same level of work required whether Bombardier won it or another supplier.
  acbeer91 Station Master

I thought some people might be interested in a look inside one of these new vlocity sets. I had the chance to check one out a few weeks ago whilst VL81 was stopped at Traralgon Station. Unfortunately it seems most of the changes are exterior and cosmetic. That said, it seems there have been some accessibility upgrades which is a good thing.



https://youtu.be/6RX5kWqWXSI

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