Near Miss Ovingham

 
  Galron Chief Commissioner

Location: Werribee, Vic
https://www.facebook.com/10NewsAdl/posts/3693397574058295

Reported as 1MP9 going through the Torrens Rd Crossing, Ovingham, With the booms and bells not working. Very much a near miss. Short video from CH10 news

Quoteing their post

"A freight train driver could do nothing but hold down his horn and hope when a boom gate failed at a busy Adelaide crossing around midday."

No indication as to why the booms and bells where not working. Hopefully the nightly news has more

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  NSWGR8022 Chief Commissioner

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech
That could have been a lot worse.
  theanimal Chief Commissioner

Saw a picture on Facebook where the freighter was standing across the the level crossing with the booms up, the road traffic lights are also green.

this will be interesting.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Reminds me of the issues we had a few years back when V/Line trains failed to activate the level crossings in Melbourne.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Reminds me of the issues we had a few years back when V/Line trains failed to activate the level crossings in Melbourne.
railblogger
But rather than a glorified rail motor this was a full interstate big wheel freight train.
RP today highlights TWO WRONG SIDE signal failures.
On the basis of the old railway superstition that accidents/incidents come in threes; when and where will be the third and what will be the consequences?
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Reminds me of the issues we had a few years back when V/Line trains failed to activate the level crossings in Melbourne.
But rather than a glorified rail motor this was a full interstate big wheel freight train.
RP today highlights TWO WRONG SIDE signal failures.
On the basis of the old railway superstition that accidents/incidents come in threes; when and where will be the third and what will be the consequences?
YM-Mundrabilla
Regardless of the type of train, both incidents could've been absolutely catastrophic.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
When I saw the title of the thread I thought you were going to show me a location nearby to Miss Ovingham, presumably the winner of the title of "Miss Ovingham" from several other competitors for the title.
  NSWGR8022 Chief Commissioner

Location: From the lands of Journalism and Free Speech
Seen on the RP front page today

https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/freight-train-narrowly-avoids-cars-at-adelaide-railway-crossing-after-boom-gate-failure

Amazing how the xriver was able to avoid the train fantastic driving.
  apw5910 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Location: Location.
When I saw the title of the thread I thought you were going to show me a location nearby to Miss Ovingham, presumably the winner of the title of "Miss Ovingham" from several other competitors for the title.
don_dunstan
Poor Miss Ovingham. And she came so close!
  gunzel42 Locomotive Driver

When I saw the title of the thread I thought you were going to show me a location nearby to Miss Ovingham, presumably the winner of the title of "Miss Ovingham" from several other competitors for the title.
don_dunstan
I'd dread to picture a Miss Ovingham.
  gunzel42 Locomotive Driver

Reminds me of the issues we had a few years back when V/Line trains failed to activate the level crossings in Melbourne.
But rather than a glorified rail motor this was a full interstate big wheel freight train.
RP today highlights TWO WRONG SIDE signal failures.
On the basis of the old railway superstition that accidents/incidents come in threes; when and where will be the third and what will be the consequences?
Regardless of the type of train, both incidents could've been absolutely catastrophic.
railblogger
Agree fully, the poor legislation put in place by ONRSR is making rail more dangerous than it has ever been.
  theanimal Chief Commissioner

Agree fully, the poor legislation put in place by ONRSR is making rail more dangerous than it has ever been.
gunzel42


Can you elaborate?

I thought legislation was made by politicians and then it was the responsibility of entities to implement it?
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

When I saw the title of the thread I thought you were going to show me a location nearby to Miss Ovingham, presumably the winner of the title of "Miss Ovingham" from several other competitors for the title.
I'd dread to picture a Miss Ovingham.
gunzel42
Probably not the worst option of all the suburbs with stations on that line.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

I thought legislation was made by politicians and then it was the responsibility of entities to implement it?
theanimal
It is not a one way process.

Departments and agencies are heavily involved in the drafting of legislation (and regulations) which are then voted through by politicians (or signed by the relevant minister).

EDIT: Just to be clear, I have no idea if there is any substance to the claims that ONRSR is making rail less safe than it was before and am simply commenting on legislative processes.
  420renegade Station Staff

Agree fully, the poor legislation put in place by ONRSR is making rail more dangerous than it has ever been.
gunzel42

please explain how ONRSR  contributed to this particular incident ?
in 13  years as a network controller nothing has come from onsr that has made things we do less safe.

this will be a infrastructure incident which will be investigated reported to all and future steps put in place to try and avoid it happening again
just like any rail incident
  DJPeters Deputy Commissioner

This may have been human error as for it to fail completely IE nothing happens at all, suggests it might have been disconnected completely from all power sources it had so that would result in it not operating at all.  It could have been a contractor simply disconnecting a wire somewhere to upgrade the crossing on the Adelaide Metro side and in doing that he has accidentally disconnected it completely.  As they say accidents will happen and do quite often. All the signalling circuits on the Adelaide metro side are being upgraded for the Electric train services that is being put in at the moment.

Adelaide Metro years back suffered a complete loss of all the signalling in the Metro area and it was said to be impossible to do at the time but it happened, that was found out to be someone sabotaging a signal installation box around Goodwood and rewiring it to bring it all to its knees.  That is why a lot would say now never say never again.

I am not saying it happened like this, as the investigation will find out hopefully what actually did happen, just giving a thought to it here.
  Galron Chief Commissioner

Location: Werribee, Vic
This may have been human error as for it to fail completely IE nothing happens at all, suggests it might have been disconnected completely from all power sources it had so that would result in it not operating at all.  It could have been a contractor simply disconnecting a wire somewhere to upgrade the crossing on the Adelaide Metro side and in doing that he has accidentally disconnected it completely.  As they say accidents will happen and do quite often. All the signalling circuits on the Adelaide metro side are being upgraded for the Electric train services that is being put in at the moment.

Adelaide Metro years back suffered a complete loss of all the signalling in the Metro area and it was said to be impossible to do at the time but it happened, that was found out to be someone sabotaging a signal installation box around Goodwood and rewiring it to bring it all to its knees.  That is why a lot would say now never say never again.

I am not saying it happened like this, as the investigation will find out hopefully what actually did happen, just giving a thought to it here.
DJPeters
The investigation will uncover what happened, but in case you dont know, most, if not all, level crossings, especially those with boom's, will go into a safety mode if they lose power, upstream comms, or otherwise fault, and will start flashing, and where fitted, lower the booms. They have local power in the cabinet, and if fitted with LED lights, can keep running for quite a while without upstream power.
  Fatty Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
Agree fully, the poor legislation put in place by ONRSR is making rail more dangerous than it has ever been.
gunzel42


I'd like to see you support this assertion with evidence because it sounds like utter bullsh*t to me.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
The investigation will uncover what happened, but in case you dont know, most, if not all, level crossings, especially those with boom's, will go into a safety mode if they lose power, upstream comms, or otherwise fault, and will start flashing, and where fitted, lower the booms. They have local power in the cabinet, and if fitted with LED lights, can keep running for quite a while without upstream power.
Galron
Ah yes, but what is the local power? In a long running LX problem that I am aware of the local power was a deep cycle marine type battery. If said battery is not tested and maintained correctly when it is called on to do it's job it may be found lacking.

The incident I am talking about was thankfully not a wrong side failure but the backup power was found wanting when tested as the fitters were searching for the problem. So if a total power outage in the area had occurred the battery may not have done the job.

These LX thingies can be very troublesome. I recall being stationed as a flagman one day due to ongoing problems with an LX. On hearing the sound of the approaching train I wandered across the road in my HiViz to make sure the traffic was obeying the signals as they had been randomly activating and the locals were beginning to ignore them.

Halfway across the road my blood suddenly ran cold - as the train descended the grade towards the LX the bloody thing stopped working. No lights, no bells. It was too late for the train to stop but luckily the car drivers were smart enough to stay put.

I wasn't privy to the outcome of the investigation as it was above my pay grade but it was a real eye opener I can tell you! According to my knowledge of how the system worked it should not have been possible but it happened as sure as I was standing there.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

This may have been human error as for it to fail completely IE nothing happens at all, suggests it might have been disconnected completely from all power sources it had so that would result in it not operating at all.  It could have been a contractor simply disconnecting a wire somewhere to upgrade the crossing on the Adelaide Metro side and in doing that he has accidentally disconnected it completely.  As they say accidents will happen and do quite often. All the signalling circuits on the Adelaide metro side are being upgraded for the Electric train services that is being put in at the moment.

Adelaide Metro years back suffered a complete loss of all the signalling in the Metro area and it was said to be impossible to do at the time but it happened, that was found out to be someone sabotaging a signal installation box around Goodwood and rewiring it to bring it all to its knees.  That is why a lot would say now never say never again.

I am not saying it happened like this, as the investigation will find out hopefully what actually did happen, just giving a thought to it here.
The investigation will uncover what happened, but in case you dont know, most, if not all, level crossings, especially those with boom's, will go into a safety mode if they lose power, upstream comms, or otherwise fault, and will start flashing, and where fitted, lower the booms. They have local power in the cabinet, and if fitted with LED lights, can keep running for quite a while without upstream power.
Galron
Those are all examples of right side failures, or fail-to-safe.

A wrong side failure is a completely different beast that will require full investigation to prevent it being repeated. But given that service was resumed so promptly afterwards, there must already be a pretty strong indicator that it was human error (the crossing was switched out for works of some kind and not switched in afterwards) rather than an equipment failure.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
This may have been human error as for it to fail completely IE nothing happens at all, suggests it might have been disconnected completely from all power sources it had so that would result in it not operating at all.  It could have been a contractor simply disconnecting a wire somewhere to upgrade the crossing on the Adelaide Metro side and in doing that he has accidentally disconnected it completely.  As they say accidents will happen and do quite often. All the signalling circuits on the Adelaide metro side are being upgraded for the Electric train services that is being put in at the moment.

Adelaide Metro years back suffered a complete loss of all the signalling in the Metro area and it was said to be impossible to do at the time but it happened, that was found out to be someone sabotaging a signal installation box around Goodwood and rewiring it to bring it all to its knees.  That is why a lot would say now never say never again.

I am not saying it happened like this, as the investigation will find out hopefully what actually did happen, just giving a thought to it here.
The investigation will uncover what happened, but in case you dont know, most, if not all, level crossings, especially those with boom's, will go into a safety mode if they lose power, upstream comms, or otherwise fault, and will start flashing, and where fitted, lower the booms. They have local power in the cabinet, and if fitted with LED lights, can keep running for quite a while without upstream power.
Those are all examples of right side failures, or fail-to-safe.

A wrong side failure is a completely different beast that will require full investigation to prevent it being repeated. But given that service was resumed so promptly afterwards, there must already be a pretty strong indicator that it was human error (the crossing was switched out for works of some kind and not switched in afterwards) rather than an equipment failure.
justapassenger
If it was human error it is not the first case of this nature in Victoria. There was a 'human error' case near Colac a year or three ago which was due to carelessness and/or incompetence.
  Lockspike Chief Commissioner

Those are all examples of right side failures, or fail-to-safe.

A wrong side failure is a completely different beast that will require full investigation to prevent it being repeated. But given that service was resumed so promptly afterwards, there must already be a pretty strong indicator that it was human error (the crossing was switched out for works of some kind and not switched in afterwards) rather than an equipment failure.
If it was human error it is not the first case of this nature in Victoria. There was a 'human error' case near Colac a year or three ago which was due to carelessness and/or incompetence.
YM-Mundrabilla
'Twill be interesting to see if this 'human error' is system induced, or a one off action. We patiently await the report.
  KRviator Moderator

Location: Up the front
please explain how ONRSR  contributed to this particular incident ?
in 13  years as a network controller nothing has come from onsr that has made things we do less safe.
420renegade
Really? Had a look at the ATSB RepCon reports recently?

The reporter has expressed a safety concern regarding the lack of training provided to employees and inadequate promotion of updated operational procedures.

The reporter states that {operator] has released approximately 270 operational document changes to their train crew since 01 January 2018. Each of these requiring the employee to read the document, interpret any changes from the previous edition and recall these in an operational environment. Of these 270 changes, 158 were Operational Procedure changes, 46 Operating Instructions (which by definition alter an existing operational procedure that then needs to be cross-referenced), and 63 Operation Notices.

--SNIP--

ONRSR has reviewed the information contained within REPCON RR201800031.

ONRSR is satisfied that there is sufficient evidence to demonstrate that at the time of this response, [operator] have systems to manage so far as is reasonably practicable, the risks associated with management of change including training and consultation with rail safety workers.
The ATSB

270 operational document changes in less than a year and ONRSR doesn't think there's a problem with people keeping up to date, because the Operator says so. Riiiigggghhhttt. Rolling Eyes

Here's another:
The reporter advised that changes regarding work on track authorities were made to the NIB on 10 January 2019; however, staff responsible for implementing the changes were only made aware of the amended procedures 12 days later, via an email. Responsible staff were continuing to request work on track authorities that contravened the amended procedures as late as three weeks after the changes to the NIB were initially made.

--SNIP--

ONRSR has reviewed the information supplied by the reporter and the response provided by the operator. ONRSR has made further enquiries with the operator regarding this matter and is satisfied with the operator’s response.
The ATSB
Another operator, another employee with concerns about working to out of date documents, yet ONRSR says "She's apples!"


Here's another you might be able to relate to:

The reporter has raised a safety concern relating to insufficient document control by [the Operator] train controllers.
The reporter states that controllers regularly issue Work on Track Authorities on night shift without the paper train graphs being up to date at the time of issuing the authority.

--SNIP--

ONRSR conducted regulatory activity in February 2019 regarding this matter and  as a result, the operator is implementing a safeworking improvement plan. ONRSR will monitor the implementation of this as part of the 2019 National Work Program.
The ATSB


I dunno about you, but to me when you have multiple people, from various operators and various disciplines complaining about similar issues, maybe there really is an issue and ONRSR should not just say "Oh, they've done this and we're happy with that!".

Because the concern for me is, while I might think I'm doing the right thing, someone else might think differently and that doesn't work in a safety-critical role...
  Fatty Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
lots of very relevant stuff
KRviator
While that is true I reckon it's a pretty big stretch to say they the rail industry is becoming "more dangerous than it's ever been".
  KRviator Moderator

Location: Up the front
lots of very relevant stuff
While that is true I reckon it's a pretty big stretch to say they the rail industry is becoming "more dangerous than it's ever been".
Fatty
Agreed.

In many ways technology and training is getting better and improving safety but by contrast, even in the decade-and-a-bit I've been playing trains, I've seen standards slip in several areas, from recruitment, training & compliance through to supervision and management.

That's not entirely ONRSR's fault, however, as the regulator, they have an obligation to ensure standards are upheld and I think they've dropped the ball.

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