https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2020/rair/ro-2020-022/

I note that the summary suggests that the train has been destroyed. I guess the brakes won't need to be fixed in that case.

https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2020/rair/ro-2020-022/

I note that the summary suggests that the train has been destroyed. I guess the brakes won't need to be fixed in that case.

Whilst what you say may well end up being true I don't read that into the ATSB statement. All I see is that, yet again and for whatever reason, the train got away on the Mountain.
We will only have to wait 100 years for the ATSB to establish whether it was a rolling stock fault(s) or a human error or both?

So for anyone unfamiliar with some of the more esoteric jargon spoken in NSW:

Central Coast = Short North = Metrop to Newcastle (all one and the same) ??

NCL = Newcastle in this context rather than the frequently used acronym for the North Coast Line.

YM what is Metrop?  This isnt a term used in NSW AFAIK...

So for anyone unfamiliar with some of the more esoteric jargon spoken in NSW:

Central Coast = Short North = Metrop to Newcastle (all one and the same) ??

NCL = Newcastle in this context rather than the frequently used acronym for the North Coast Line.

YM what is Metrop?  This isnt a term used in NSW AFAIK...

Never heard of Metrop, although going back a bit in time, there was a boundary used by Train Control called the Border, on each line in & out of Sydney, it was used as the limit of the wide bodied Electric Rolling Stock, but also for goods trains, entering in or heading out of the Sydney Metro area.  These border locations were Liverpool, later extended to Campbelltown when it was electrified for wide ETR trains.  Northern line was Cowan, Western line was Emu Plains, Illawarra Sutherland and later Waterfall.

What also was part of that was that Metropolitan trains were all within the border locations, and were under the Metropolitan control areas. Any train that went past those borders came under the various Main Train Control Boards

So for anyone unfamiliar with some of the more esoteric jargon spoken in NSW:

Central Coast = Short North = Metrop to Newcastle (all one and the same) ??

NCL = Newcastle in this context rather than the frequently used acronym for the North Coast Line.

YM what is Metrop?  This isnt a term used in NSW AFAIK...

Never heard of Metrop, although going back a bit in time, there was a boundary used by Train Control called the Border, on each line in & out of Sydney, it was used as the limit of the wide bodied Electric Rolling Stock, but also for goods trains, entering in or heading out of the Sydney Metro area.  These border locations were Liverpool, later extended to Campbelltown when it was electrified for wide ETR trains.  Northern line was Cowan, Western line was Emu Plains, Illawarra Sutherland and later Waterfall.

What also was part of that was that Metropolitan trains were all within the border locations, and were under the Metropolitan control areas. Any train that went past those borders came under the various Main Train Control Boards

So for anyone unfamiliar with some of the more esoteric jargon spoken in NSW:

Central Coast = Short North = Metrop to Newcastle (all one and the same) ??

NCL = Newcastle in this context rather than the frequently used acronym for the North Coast Line.

YM what is Metrop?  This isnt a term used in NSW AFAIK...

James,
These last few posts highlight just how quickly things change and how terms inviolate at one time disappear or change so quickly. As a6et has explained the 'Metrop' was basically the Sydney Metropolitan Area. In my day this term had applied forever!  It was, insofar as freight services were concerned an area where freight curfews applied in suburban peak periods. I assume that this is still the case to a greater or lesser degree. Again as a6et has said, if you were not 'over the border' by a certain time you were likely to be stood aside until after the peak/curfew.
YM

So for anyone unfamiliar with some of the more esoteric jargon spoken in NSW:

Central Coast = Short North = Metrop to Newcastle (all one and the same) ??

NCL = Newcastle in this context rather than the frequently used acronym for the North Coast Line.

YM what is Metrop?  This isnt a term used in NSW AFAIK...

James,
These last few posts highlight just how quickly things change and how terms inviolate at one time disappear or change so quickly. As a6et has explained the 'Metrop' was basically the Sydney Metropolitan Area. In my day this term had applied forever!  It was, insofar as freight services were concerned an area where freight curfews applied in suburban peak periods. I assume that this is still the case to a greater or lesser degree. Again as a6et has said, if you were not 'over the border' by a certain time you were likely to be stood aside until after the peak/curfew.
YM

In my Enfield/Port Kembla days, the border became a real horror at times, especially as some high priority trains such as the Melbourne & Brisbane Flexi Van expresses were delayed ever so slightly, the Brissy one wasn't as bad as it ran on the up on the edge of the peak hours, as it had to get into Cooks before the Melbourne one departed.  

It was not uncommon especially on the Illawarra to be put away at Waterfall and all but rot, owing to the restriction on using the up loop at Sutherland if you had branch liners up front, as they could not hold the train weight on that grade.  The aspects always generally depended on the level of traffic and how smooth things ran, also where was the last crossing/refuge at or prior to the border. Cowan, was short so Hawkesbury ended up becoming a default for the longer trains, and even Gosford at times depending on traffic levels and their train lengths.

On the South, Picton often became a default last option/border refuge, especially when Glenlee was working and full program with Campbelltown, Ingleburn and Leightonfield ending up full.

One of the tightest trains was the down flexi van exp from cooks to Melbourne, it was tabled to go into the down refuge at Campbelltown to allow the SOP to run through, we sat at Sefton Junction waiting for the SA to go through, and we ran between it and the SOP to Campbelltown and then followed it all the way to Goulburn, we were arriving there as the SOP was departing.

As such curfews existed not just in those main peak periods but more so on a priority.  There was an Up high wheeler to Cooks that ran via Bankstown during the morning peak, it meant we ran caution signals to Canterbury before going onto the goods road, speed was 20mph following the spark which allows us to not stop at signals.

CC, is a fairly common term these days especially when news channels refer to train running within the general district from the Metro area to Wickham/Newcastle interchange.  Also part changing and referrals to the Central Coast lines are announced on regional news as Central Coast line for delay and on time type of running's. CC was used for commuter trains running as far as Gosford and later extended to include Wyong services. Both being terminating/turn round stations for trains each way.

Short North has not been a term used these days very much. In the older days especially when engine changes were carried out out at Gosford, other words prior to the NCL line being the more common short term name for the line meaning NCL being for NewCastle Line.  A similar tag was applied for trains from Sydney to Goulburn being deemed Short South, the likes of the Illawarra and the Western line had other tags such as the mountains for the line to Lithgow, and the Illawarra being deemed nothing more than The coast, or Illawarra.

These days, with through running on trains heading out of Sydney and going through Broadmeadow and heading to Werris Creek or the North Coast Line, and they do not have engine changes or crew changes until Taree and WCK are reached.

The crews working colies as far as the Ulan line and other collieries are just deemed as being "The Valley" working.

Of course Sydney - Newcastle is the Short North. When I hear of terms such as Central Coast Line, I just switch off; it has been dumbed down by ignorant public officials and 'media', speaking to an even more ignorant public, who barely know what a train is.

As a6et stated, colloquially there was the Short South, and there was the Deep South also (do I really need to explain that one?), but not a Short or Far West (in railway terms), nor a Far Nth (but the Far Side was funny). The Sth Coast was just 'The Illa".

As for the NCL, 'Lines' were known by their name, i.e: Main South, Main West (Syd - Bourke), Main North (Syd - Wallangarra), Illawarra Main (Syd - Bomaderry), etc. As for the Nth Coast, that overgrown branch line was the North Coast Main. Speaking of which, branches were most commonly known by locality at the end of the line.

For those of you who are 'on the job', a lot of this knowledge comes from learning the wisdom of the old hands, ignore it at your peril. As for outside of the job, go learn your railway history, it will throw an amazing light on your understanding of the railway.

In my Enfield/Port Kembla days, the border became a real horror at times, especially as some high priority trains such as the Melbourne & Brisbane Flexi Van expresses were delayed ever so slightly, the Brissy one wasn't as bad as it ran on the up on the edge of the peak hours, as it had to get into Cooks before the Melbourne one departed.  

One of the tightest trains was the down flexi van exp from cooks to Melbourne, it was tabled to go into the down refuge at Campbelltown to allow the SOP to run through, we sat at Sefton Junction waiting for the SA to go through, and we ran between it and the SOP to Campbelltown and then followed it all the way to Goulburn, we were arriving there as the SOP was departing.

As such curfews existed not just in those main peak periods but more so on a priority.  There was an Up high wheeler to Cooks that ran via Bankstown during the morning peak, it meant we ran caution signals to Canterbury before going onto the goods road, speed was 20mph following the spark which allows us to not stop at signals.

It must have meant very tight timing as there were only 10 minutes between the departures of the SA and the SOP. You would have been looking for the 'greens' all the way to C'town. The 'Block Tele' sections further south would have spread you out a little. I recall my signalman father talking about those high wheelers as being just as quick as the The Spirit as they didn't have the station stops.

Initially (1962), at least, the Aurora and the SoP followed different routes through part of the Metrop as I understand it which provided the  separation necessary until the Aurora got ahead.

The running of the 'Contrans' Annual Hire train between Contrans in Melbourne and Cooks River in Sydney was afforded at least equal priority with the Southern Aurora. The running of this train was top priority for all. If there was ever a sacred train the Melbourne - Sydney and return Contrans was it.

CC, is a fairly common term these days especially when news channels refer to train running within the general district from the Metro area to Wickham/Newcastle interchange.  Also part changing and referrals to the Central Coast lines are announced on regional news as Central Coast line for delay and on time type of running's. CC was used for commuter trains running as far as Gosford and later extended to include Wyong services. Both being terminating/turn round stations for trains each way.

Short North has not been a term used these days very much. In the older days especially when engine changes were carried out out at Gosford, other words prior to the NCL line being the more common short term name for the line meaning NCL being for NewCastle Line.  A similar tag was applied for trains from Sydney to Goulburn being deemed Short South, the likes of the Illawarra and the Western line had other tags such as the mountains for the line to Lithgow, and the Illawarra being deemed nothing more than The coast, or Illawarra.

These days, with through running on trains heading out of Sydney and going through Broadmeadow and heading to Werris Creek or the North Coast Line, and they do not have engine changes or crew changes until Taree and WCK are reached.

The crews working colies as far as the Ulan line and other collieries are just deemed as being "The Valley" working.

Of course Sydney - Newcastle is the Short North. When I hear of terms such as Central Coast Line, I just switch off; it has been dumbed down by ignorant public officials and 'media', speaking to an even more ignorant public, who barely know what a train is.

As a6et stated, colloquially there was the Short South, and there was the Deep South also (do I really need to explain that one?), but not a Short or Far West (in railway terms), nor a Far Nth (but the Far Side was funny). The Sth Coast was just 'The Illa".

As for the NCL, 'Lines' were known by their name, i.e: Main South, Main West (Syd - Bourke), Main North (Syd - Wallangarra), Illawarra Main (Syd - Bomaderry), etc. As for the Nth Coast, that overgrown branch line was the North Coast Main. Speaking of which, branches were most commonly known by locality at the end of the line.

For those of you who are 'on the job', a lot of this knowledge comes from learning the wisdom of the old hands, ignore it at your peril. As for outside of the job, go learn your railway history, it will throw an amazing light on your understanding of the railway.

' learning the wisdom of the old hands, ignore it at your peril '.

Wise words Comrade. Well said.

In my Enfield/Port Kembla days, the border became a real horror at times, especially as some high priority trains such as the Melbourne & Brisbane Flexi Van expresses were delayed ever so slightly, the Brissy one wasn't as bad as it ran on the up on the edge of the peak hours, as it had to get into Cooks before the Melbourne one departed.  

One of the tightest trains was the down flexi van exp from cooks to Melbourne, it was tabled to go into the down refuge at Campbelltown to allow the SOP to run through, we sat at Sefton Junction waiting for the SA to go through, and we ran between it and the SOP to Campbelltown and then followed it all the way to Goulburn, we were arriving there as the SOP was departing.

As such curfews existed not just in those main peak periods but more so on a priority.  There was an Up high wheeler to Cooks that ran via Bankstown during the morning peak, it meant we ran caution signals to Canterbury before going onto the goods road, speed was 20mph following the spark which allows us to not stop at signals.

It must have meant very tight timing as there were only 10 minutes between the departures of the SA and the SOP. You would have been looking for the 'greens' all the way to C'town. The 'Block Tele' sections further south would have spread you out a little. I recall my signalman father talking about those high wheelers as being just as quick as the The Spirit as they didn't have the station stops.

My reference to the SOP being the train that the Flexi was put away at Campbelltown is an error, rather the train that we were put away for was the Aurora, with the Flexi running between the SA and the SOP between Campbelltown and Glbn.

The Aurora and SOP both had set loads, as did the Flexi Exp which was a TNT contracted train and penalties applied to it should there be late running of it, there were various levels of cost penalties applied to both the Melbourne and Brisbane services.  As I mentioned previously we went through Sefton without any stopping providing we had nothing to block us.

At the time the Flexi Exp was set at a maximum load of 1000tonnes, for 2 main liners, 100tonnes above a single main liner load. Once we got past Liverpool we sat on 60mph as far as Campbeltown where we went into the down Loop, the Aurora ran through us and as soon as the line was clear and we got the road to go, our speed was set to a max of 60mph/100Kmh.  The Aurora was actually a longer train than the Flexi and it dragged down on the curves from Campbelltown to Glbn, On automatic sections we would often run on caution signals behind the SA, also IIRC, the SOP also stopped at Moss Vale to pick up passengers giving the Flexi a bit of leeway.

Both of the Flexi expresses for Melbourne and Brisbane were very much untouchables as far as being blocked with no good reason, if there were delays, the driver in the specific area where a delay was had, was given a bung for please explain. At the time between Liverpool and Campbelltown the only speed restriction was on the old Minto Viaduct, IIRC it was 50km/h. the actual running time from Liverpool - Campbelltown was 15minutes for the EXP passengers and 18 for the flexi.

Outside of the Flexi's the primary priority goods trains were bogie stock trains, if a full load of stock they were non stop from Goulburn to Flemo, with Running time of 3 hours. On the day of the Wentworth Falls run away, I was on a stock train from Glbn 106 stock with single 45cl, there was heavy snow from around 2pm in Glbn and we left there at around 1230 in the morning, had to pick up a traffic officer at Wingello and drop him off at MV, we made Flemo at 4am owing to the delays.  These were regular fast trains scheduled at 60mph, other similar trains were fruit expresses from the Riverina.

Do we know when (or if) the Unanderra / Moss Vale line has reopened?

I would have assumed that by now the answer was yes but on the other hand it sounds like a monumental mess to have to clean up and in one of the more difficult places to have to do it so maybe not.

Do we know when (or if) the Unanderra / Moss Vale line has reopened?

I would have assumed that by now the answer was yes but on the other hand it sounds like a monumental mess to have to clean up and in one of the more difficult places to have to do it so maybe not.

There was signal testing being undertaken today on the line, so full resumption is probably not far away. Trains have running in the 'down' direction for a while now.

Do we know when (or if) the Unanderra / Moss Vale line has reopened?

I would have assumed that by now the answer was yes but on the other hand it sounds like a monumental mess to have to clean up and in one of the more difficult places to have to do it so maybe not.

There is at least one grain train still being diverted via Sydney and a Tahmoor Coal train as well, unsure how long this will continue for though.

Both tracks available for traffic as of 1515hrs Sunday 17/1

Both tracks available for traffic as of 1515hrs Sunday 17/1

I did hear that are there are some conditions that freight be allowed down there though, is that right? so if that IS the case, does this mean that some services may continue to operate via Sydney?