Victorian budget 2021/2022 and Election 2022 promises

 
  Djebel Junior Train Controller

Anyone suggesting electrification for Geelong and Ballarat should be years away is ignoring the most important aspects which are the environment. Passenger numbers are higher on the Geelong line than would be for most regional French services under the wires. No wonder Victoria goes no where with so many detractors.

We are talking 45 kms plus Geelong area for electrification. Should have already been done.
freightgate
There's a difference between using what is already there (as it is in France, or tidal flow 3rd tracks in Melbourne) and building new.

And if Geelong/Ballarat are electrified, which system should we use?  Apparently 1500V DC is the work of the devil, and soooo last century.  Go for a modern 25kV AC system and suddenly you have to provide completely separate paths everywhere, and restricted/no at grade junctions, separate servicing facilities, etc.  Dual voltage rolling stock would be another option, I suppose.

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  True Believers Chief Commissioner

1) I'd also like to see some updates on the forgotten Caulfield to Rowville tram line project. That particular project has went silent for years, reasons being SRL has delayed it. Since SRL has picked up speed and has had planning done on the location of the stations and route alignment, would be nice to have a follow up on the Rowville light rail project since it's delivery can be done quicker and would benefit Chadstone and Monash locations in the short-medium term.

2) Melbourne Metro 2 could be the next major rail tunnel once MM1 is completed in 2024/2025, would be nice to see some early planning work and development post 2022, to see whether this project stacks up or we should go with reconfiguring the city loop tunnels instead. The city loop reconfiguration would mean more paths using the city loop tunnels and increase the capacity quite a bit, without injecting 20 billion on MM2. As I said this would be a good way to make use of the existing capacity in the city loop and then you can put MM2 to a later date. The MM2 would go together well with both the WRP and the GFR projects which are happening in the medium to long term but a business case should look into if its investment is worth the benefits since it has a large price to building it.

3) With buses, I agree with what has been said previously about bus service improvements, also they should build on the smartbus network more. Add additional smartbus corridors and tweak the existing network by splitting up the long orbital routes. There should be an overall project team to deliver tram and bus projects (Tram and Bus project Victoria), like there is for rail (Rails project Victoria) and roads (Major roads project Victoria). More tram and bus infrastructure would obviously attract attention to the government and in turn would increase patronage on those networks and would push further service improvements.

4) Another beneficial project that some have missed, is introducing high capacity signalling and the HCMTs on further rail corridors in the future. At the moment its expansion is towards the MARL project. But there is opportunity it could be introduced with the WRP and other existing rail corridors.

5) As for regional rail upgrades, probably would be improving the Bendigo line with redoubling some of the track lost from RFR. No need for trains to Drysdale, or past Clyde or Mornington region. You need to get the existing regional network operating with better frequencies and improvement to the tracks, signalling etc like what's been happening with RRR. The only real possible regional extension in the far future is Maryborough to Mildura, but that's still unlikely due to the delays on the MBRP which has halted the Ballarat improvement project that could have extended Maryborough services to Dunolly. But with that disaster of the project it is unlikely Mildura passenger rail will happen at all.
  Lockie91 Assistant Commissioner

Anyone suggesting electrification for Geelong and Ballarat should be years away is ignoring the most important aspects which are the environment. Passenger numbers are higher on the Geelong line than would be for most regional French services under the wires. No wonder Victoria goes no where with so many detractors.

We are talking 45 kms plus Geelong area for electrification. Should have already been done.
freightgate
The most important aspect is MONEY, not the environment. DMU emissions would be insignificant compared to road traffic and domestic consumption. This is why billions have been spent on rooftop solar and now the push for cheaper EV's; along with grid scale batteries for the manufacturing sectors.

Velocties are currently rated Euro 2, with the current refurbishment taking them to Euro3A (Particle filters are being installed). A 6 car Velocity produces 9.5gram/km of NO2. 81km from Southern Cross to Geelong, gives us roughly 77 grams of NO2 per service. At 120 services a day (including shorts that do not run the full 81 KM) gives us roughly 10kg of NO2 per day. 10kg over 365 days (not factoring in reduced services on weekend and PH) gives us 3,650KG of NO2 for the Geelong line.

In comparison a 6.1Kw will save 'on average' 10 tones of CO2 per year. As of April 2019 30,000 homes had installed solar panels according to the Vic Solar Website. That is 300,000 tones per year for 2 Billion dollars outlay and counting. The governments target is 750,000 homes over 10 years.

Governments will always pick the biggest and lowest hanging fruit, spending billions to reduce 3,650Kg of emissions on a train line will be one the last things to happen to 'reduce emissions'. Solar panels on homes are more cost effective and with the added benefit of reducing power bills, a vote winner.

Don't forget as well that the electricity has to come from somewhere, with coal and gas plants still firing in Victoria for the next 20 years. It wont be guilt free.

Lockie
  Carnot Minister for Railways

It's worth noting that one thing that might force the Government's hand in any future electrification is the cost and availability of Diesel fuel.  At some point it might be cheaper to run Hydrogen Fuel Cell trains than anything else.  That could make overhead wires redundant....
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Then on the other hand in more sophisticated jurisdictions https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/30year-programme-of-rail-electrification-needs-to-start-now-mps-say
  Upven Train Controller

Anyone suggesting electrification for Geelong and Ballarat should be years away is ignoring the most important aspects which are the environment. Passenger numbers are higher on the Geelong line than would be for most regional French services under the wires. No wonder Victoria goes no where with so many detractors.

We are talking 45 kms plus Geelong area for electrification. Should have already been done.
The most important aspect is MONEY, not the environment. DMU emissions would be insignificant compared to road traffic and domestic consumption. This is why billions have been spent on rooftop solar and now the push for cheaper EV's; along with grid scale batteries for the manufacturing sectors.

Velocties are currently rated Euro 2, with the current refurbishment taking them to Euro3A (Particle filters are being installed). A 6 car Velocity produces 9.5gram/km of NO2. 81km from Southern Cross to Geelong, gives us roughly 77 grams of NO2 per service. At 120 services a day (including shorts that do not run the full 81 KM) gives us roughly 10kg of NO2 per day. 10kg over 365 days (not factoring in reduced services on weekend and PH) gives us 3,650KG of NO2 for the Geelong line.

In comparison a 6.1Kw will save 'on average' 10 tones of CO2 per year. As of April 2019 30,000 homes had installed solar panels according to the Vic Solar Website. That is 300,000 tones per year for 2 Billion dollars outlay and counting. The governments target is 750,000 homes over 10 years.

Governments will always pick the biggest and lowest hanging fruit, spending billions to reduce 3,650Kg of emissions on a train line will be one the last things to happen to 'reduce emissions'. Solar panels on homes are more cost effective and with the added benefit of reducing power bills, a vote winner.

Don't forget as well that the electricity has to come from somewhere, with coal and gas plants still firing in Victoria for the next 20 years. It wont be guilt free.

Lockie
Lockie91
What's 1.7 billion megajoules of diesel fuel in carbon emissions per year, anyone want to hazard a guess as to how many cars that equates to? Let's not forget it's shipped here but I guess we only count carbon emissions for the transport of renewables not hydrocarbon fuels.
  Tii Junior Train Controller

Anyone suggesting electrification for Geelong and Ballarat should be years away is ignoring the most important aspects which are the environment. Passenger numbers are higher on the Geelong line than would be for most regional French services under the wires. No wonder Victoria goes no where with so many detractors.

We are talking 45 kms plus Geelong area for electrification. Should have already been done.
The most important aspect is MONEY, not the environment. DMU emissions would be insignificant compared to road traffic and domestic consumption. This is why billions have been spent on rooftop solar and now the push for cheaper EV's; along with grid scale batteries for the manufacturing sectors.

Velocties are currently rated Euro 2, with the current refurbishment taking them to Euro3A (Particle filters are being installed). A 6 car Velocity produces 9.5gram/km of NO2. 81km from Southern Cross to Geelong, gives us roughly 77 grams of NO2 per service. At 120 services a day (including shorts that do not run the full 81 KM) gives us roughly 10kg of NO2 per day. 10kg over 365 days (not factoring in reduced services on weekend and PH) gives us 3,650KG of NO2 for the Geelong line.

In comparison a 6.1Kw will save 'on average' 10 tones of CO2 per year. As of April 2019 30,000 homes had installed solar panels according to the Vic Solar Website. That is 300,000 tones per year for 2 Billion dollars outlay and counting. The governments target is 750,000 homes over 10 years.

Governments will always pick the biggest and lowest hanging fruit, spending billions to reduce 3,650Kg of emissions on a train line will be one the last things to happen to 'reduce emissions'. Solar panels on homes are more cost effective and with the added benefit of reducing power bills, a vote winner.

Don't forget as well that the electricity has to come from somewhere, with coal and gas plants still firing in Victoria for the next 20 years. It wont be guilt free.

Lockie
Lockie91
The energy transition is a stepwise process and with electricity generation being about 50% of emissions, that. will be dealt with first. Extensions to the metro network and electrification of Melton and WV will be sooner, but the Vlocities are fairly new and their replacements in decades to come will be dual powered and regional electrification will come with their introduction. But in the coming election, I expect only the WRP projects to be electrified for now. Maybe the FEDS will stump up cash in their election promises for Geelong but I see that being a 2026 thing.
  Lockie91 Assistant Commissioner

Then on the other hand in more sophisticated jurisdictions https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/30year-programme-of-rail-electrification-needs-to-start-now-mps-say
bevans
Bevans, Sophisticated?

The article talks of retro fitting batteries to clapped out DMUs. Not sure I'd call it cutting edge. Nor is it a great comparison this is UK wide, much bigger than the state of Victoria. Split in the UK is 70% DMU, 30% EMU. Here in Victoria it would be the other way around.

If the railways were nationalised and the feds were making a nation wide switch to EMU's then it would have a bigger impact on emissions. State by state it is relatively small and expensive. The feds could offer grants to the states if they were really interested.

Lockie
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
@bevans The proposal by the Department of Transport is nothing more than a deferment of serious electrification. This will also further entrench the north south divide. The South East rail network is almost entirely electrified whilst only about 40% of the north is. What you see in the picture is a class 150. That class is dating from 1984! What a slap in the face for Northern commuters. Whilst London and the SE and East Anglia and now the West Midlands get new trains based on entirely new platforms Northerners have to make do with batteries in clapped out diesels. There will be over 100 trains of 1980's vintage surplus to requirements, that will make their way to Northern to be cleaned and re-built for battery hybrids. All because this Government do not feel that Northerners are worthy of a clean electrified network with modern trains.

As @Lockie91 says, its hardly cutting edge.

Michael
  Djebel Junior Train Controller

@bevans The proposal by the Department of Transport is nothing more than a deferment of serious electrification. This will also further entrench the north south divide. The South East rail network is almost entirely electrified whilst only about 40% of the north is. What you see in the picture is a class 150. That class is dating from 1984! What a slap in the face for Northern commuters. Whilst London and the SE and East Anglia and now the West Midlands get new trains based on entirely new platforms Northerners have to make do with batteries in clapped out diesels.

As as Lockie91 says hardly cutting edge.

Michael
mejhammers1
Damned ungrateful northerners should be glad it's not a battery (re)powered Pacer!
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
Anyone suggesting electrification for Geelong and Ballarat should be years away is ignoring the most important aspects which are the environment. Passenger numbers are higher on the Geelong line than would be for most regional French services under the wires. No wonder Victoria goes no where with so many detractors.

We are talking 45 kms plus Geelong area for electrification. Should have already been done.
The most important aspect is MONEY, not the environment. DMU emissions would be insignificant compared to road traffic and domestic consumption. This is why billions have been spent on rooftop solar and now the push for cheaper EV's; along with grid scale batteries for the manufacturing sectors.

Velocties are currently rated Euro 2, with the current refurbishment taking them to Euro3A (Particle filters are being installed). A 6 car Velocity produces 9.5gram/km of NO2. 81km from Southern Cross to Geelong, gives us roughly 77 grams of NO2 per service. At 120 services a day (including shorts that do not run the full 81 KM) gives us roughly 10kg of NO2 per day. 10kg over 365 days (not factoring in reduced services on weekend and PH) gives us 3,650KG of NO2 for the Geelong line.

In comparison a 6.1Kw will save 'on average' 10 tones of CO2 per year. As of April 2019 30,000 homes had installed solar panels according to the Vic Solar Website. That is 300,000 tones per year for 2 Billion dollars outlay and counting. The governments target is 750,000 homes over 10 years.

Governments will always pick the biggest and lowest hanging fruit, spending billions to reduce 3,650Kg of emissions on a train line will be one the last things to happen to 'reduce emissions'. Solar panels on homes are more cost effective and with the added benefit of reducing power bills, a vote winner.

Don't forget as well that the electricity has to come from somewhere, with coal and gas plants still firing in Victoria for the next 20 years. It wont be guilt free.

Lockie
Lockie91
Makes me wonder how much power has been saved in the past 20 years with the move from 100W incandescent light globes to 70W halogens to 23W CFLs to 15W LEDs (or less, but I couldn't go lower than a 75W incandescent without the house becoming too dull, and 8W CFLs/LEDs were junk, useful for lighting the toilet but not much else). Same with station lights going from those absolutely useless orange sodium or (white) metal halide lamps to LEDs. Those things used to buzz constantly and drive me up the wall when waiting half an hour for a train on the Lilydale line.

Keeping with the train theme, X'Trapolis sets (not sure about Comengs, Siemens or HCMTs, or trams) have recently had their interior lights converted from the long fluorescent tubes to LEDs in the same form factor (noticed it in 965M yesterday, the LEDs give off a brighter light as well - a few sets still have the old lights and it's much more noticeable).
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
@bevans The proposal by the Department of Transport is nothing more than a deferment of serious electrification. This will also further entrench the north south divide. The South East rail network is almost entirely electrified whilst only about 40% of the north is. What you see in the picture is a class 150. That class is dating from 1984! What a slap in the face for Northern commuters. Whilst London and the SE and East Anglia and now the West Midlands get new trains based on entirely new platforms Northerners have to make do with batteries in clapped out diesels.

As as Lockie91 says hardly cutting edge.

Michael
Damned ungrateful northerners should be glad it's not a battery (re)powered Pacer!
Djebel
I am sure that's what the DFt thinks. The Northern Franchise nearly had the Class 230 foisted on them, which are recycled District Line trains from the late 1970's if it wasn't for the Unions and Andy Burnham, Mayor for Greater Manchester.

In fact to highlight how damn old those Class 150's are. The Class 172 DMU's that had replaced the 150's for the Gospel Oak to Barking line 11 years ago have been replaced themselves.

Michael
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
Anyone suggesting electrification for Geelong and Ballarat should be years away is ignoring the most important aspects which are the environment. Passenger numbers are higher on the Geelong line than would be for most regional French services under the wires. No wonder Victoria goes no where with so many detractors.

We are talking 45 kms plus Geelong area for electrification. Should have already been done.
freightgate
No wonder Victoria goes no where with so many detractors.

So nothing to do with the complete unprofessionalism of upper management regarding Rail Transit and the fact that Public Transit in this state has been used as a Political football? Most people on this forum have been realistic and honest.

Look what is happening with Geelong High speed. It is a totally ludicrous idea. The Government has spent its time developing the RRL with the view of separating Regional Rail from the Metropolitan Network only to come up with a bird brained scheme to bring it back to the Werribee via Newport Corridor. They are completely forgetting the bottleneck between Newport and Flinders Street, between Seddon and Newport the rail corridor is at grade and that particular corridor is very, very narrow.

And you wonder why there are so many detractors?


Michael
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Anyone suggesting electrification for Geelong and Ballarat should be years away is ignoring the most important aspects which are the environment. Passenger numbers are higher on the Geelong line than would be for most regional French services under the wires. No wonder Victoria goes no where with so many detractors.

We are talking 45 kms plus Geelong area for electrification. Should have already been done.
No wonder Victoria goes no where with so many detractors.

So nothing to do with the complete unprofessionalism of upper management regarding Rail Transit and the fact that Public Transit in this state has been used as a Political football? Most people on this forum have been realistic and honest.

Look what is happening with Geelong High speed. It is a totally ludicrous idea. The Government has spent its time developing the RRL with the view of separating Regional Rail from the Metropolitan Network only to come up with a bird brained scheme to bring it back to the Werribee via Newport Corridor. They are completely forgetting the bottle neck between Newport and Flinders Street, that between Seddon and Newport the rail corridor is at grade and that, that particular corridor is very, very narrow.

And you wonder why there are so many detractors?


Michael
mejhammers1
And lets not forget the SRL. Put aside for a minute your personal prejudices re this project and imagine you are someone working in the DoT. You have spent years working on the NDP assessing projects and deciding which ones should be done in 5, 10, 15, 20 years

And then you wake up one morning to news that the government has announced a circa (because they have no idea of the actual cost) $50Bn plan to build a Suburban Rail Loop that you have never been asked to evaluate and have probably never heard of until you spat your morning coffee all over your copy of The Age

I hereby out myself as one of the detractors Laughing
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
Anyone suggesting electrification for Geelong and Ballarat should be years away is ignoring the most important aspects which are the environment. Passenger numbers are higher on the Geelong line than would be for most regional French services under the wires. No wonder Victoria goes no where with so many detractors.

We are talking 45 kms plus Geelong area for electrification. Should have already been done.
No wonder Victoria goes no where with so many detractors.

So nothing to do with the complete unprofessionalism of upper management regarding Rail Transit and the fact that Public Transit in this state has been used as a Political football? Most people on this forum have been realistic and honest.

Look what is happening with Geelong High speed. It is a totally ludicrous idea. The Government has spent its time developing the RRL with the view of separating Regional Rail from the Metropolitan Network only to come up with a bird brained scheme to bring it back to the Werribee via Newport Corridor. They are completely forgetting the bottle neck between Newport and Flinders Street, that between Seddon and Newport the rail corridor is at grade and that, that particular corridor is very, very narrow.

And you wonder why there are so many detractors?


Michael
And lets not forget the SRL. Put aside for a minute your personal prejudices re this project and imagine you are someone working in the DoT. You have spent years working on the NDP assessing projects and deciding which ones should be done in 5, 10, 15, 20 years

And then you wake up one morning to news that the government has announced a circa (because they have no idea of the actual cost) $50Bn plan to build a Suburban Rail Loop that you have never been asked to evaluate and have probably never heard of until you spat your morning coffee all over your copy of The Age

I hereby out myself as one of the detractors Laughing
BrentonGolding
Yeah. I do think it is a complete posers project. Totally Political and a cynical attempt to win votes and it has.



Michael
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
So nothing to do with the complete unprofessionalism of upper management regarding Rail Transit and the fact that Public Transit in this state has been used as a Political football? Most people on this forum have been realistic and honest.
"mejhammers"
I know I keep harping on this, but there's not one member of the V/Line board who knows anything about running a railway system.
  Tii Junior Train Controller

Anyone suggesting electrification for Geelong and Ballarat should be years away is ignoring the most important aspects which are the environment. Passenger numbers are higher on the Geelong line than would be for most regional French services under the wires. No wonder Victoria goes no where with so many detractors.

We are talking 45 kms plus Geelong area for electrification. Should have already been done.
No wonder Victoria goes no where with so many detractors.

So nothing to do with the complete unprofessionalism of upper management regarding Rail Transit and the fact that Public Transit in this state has been used as a Political football? Most people on this forum have been realistic and honest.

Look what is happening with Geelong High speed. It is a totally ludicrous idea. The Government has spent its time developing the RRL with the view of separating Regional Rail from the Metropolitan Network only to come up with a bird brained scheme to bring it back to the Werribee via Newport Corridor. They are completely forgetting the bottle neck between Newport and Flinders Street, that between Seddon and Newport the rail corridor is at grade and that, that particular corridor is very, very narrow.

And you wonder why there are so many detractors?


Michael
And lets not forget the SRL. Put aside for a minute your personal prejudices re this project and imagine you are someone working in the DoT. You have spent years working on the NDP assessing projects and deciding which ones should be done in 5, 10, 15, 20 years

And then you wake up one morning to news that the government has announced a circa (because they have no idea of the actual cost) $50Bn plan to build a Suburban Rail Loop that you have never been asked to evaluate and have probably never heard of until you spat your morning coffee all over your copy of The Age

I hereby out myself as one of the detractors Laughing
BrentonGolding
The SRL did seem to just appear out of nowhere. It probably has long term merit and now it's in planning long term. Like many here, I would have liked to see the money directed to it, to have gone first to improving bus services and completing more of the final steps in the NDP plan with the long awaited WRP and all the low hanging fruit projects for trams, bus and rail to make a useful network by 2025 to go with the metro tunnel opening and a major overhaul to frequency on metro and regional lines and late bus services. It's a whole system not a bus system and a rail system and a tram system.
  LeroyW Junior Train Controller

Location: Awaiting MM2
And lets not forget the SRL. Put aside for a minute your personal prejudices re this project and imagine you are someone working in the DoT. You have spent years working on the NDP assessing projects and deciding which ones should be done in 5, 10, 15, 20 years

And then you wake up one morning to news that the government has announced a circa (because they have no idea of the actual cost) $50Bn plan to build a Suburban Rail Loop that you have never been asked to evaluate and have probably never heard of until you spat your morning coffee all over your copy of The Age

I hereby out myself as one of the detractors Laughing
BrentonGolding
Yeah. I do think it is a complete posers project. Totally Political and a cynical attempt to win votes and it has.

Michael
mejhammers1
The SRL did seem to just appear out of nowhere. It probably has long term merit and now it's in planning long term. Like many here, I would have liked to see the money directed to it, to have gone first to improving bus services and completing more of the final steps in the NDP plan with the long awaited WRP and all the low hanging fruit projects for trams, bus and rail to make a useful network by 2025 to go with the metro tunnel opening and a major overhaul to frequency on metro and regional lines and late bus services. It's a whole system not a bus system and a rail system and a tram system.
Tii
I like that this point has been raised: regardless of whether you personally believe in the project's value, it was a political dream that appeared overnight completely separate to the entities that should have been planning it.

But hey, at least we're not getting East-West link instead!

(Yes, it was at least in some plans somewhere already but the government of the day still elevated it to number one infrastructure priority because they felt like it, which is the same as SRL)
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
I like that this point has been raised: regardless of whether you personally believe in the project's value, it was a political dream that appeared overnight completely separate to the entities that should have been planning it.
LeroyW
Except, the DoT that "should have been planning" had, in the opinion of govt completely lost the plot.

SRL is the child of Urban Planning. Much wider embrace that just "what train lines do we need to support our guess what train passengers want"

Just consider the NEICs that are integrated by SRL.    MONASH, BURWOOD/BOX HILL, LATROBE, BROADMEADOWS, AIRPORT, SUNSHINE.
The DoT "plans" were woeful, didn't even think that those exist.

DoT got the kick up the bum needed to bring them into the 22nd Century.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
@mejhammers1 The Class 172s used on the Overground were replaced due to lack of capacity, not design life. They are still in operation in the west Midlands.
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
@mejhammers1 The Class 172s used on the Overground were replaced due to lack of capacity, not design life. They are still in operation in the west Midlands.
railblogger
I am not saying that the Class 172 is clapped out. I was highlighting how old the Class 150's are. The Class 172's were replaced because the Gospel Oak to Barking line has been electrified.


Michael
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
All of this talk about rollingstock classes of the railways of England is fascinating but...

Just consider the NEICs that are integrated by SRL. MONASH, BURWOOD/BOX HILL, LATROBE, BROADMEADOWS, AIRPORT, SUNSHINE.
The DoT "plans" were woeful, didn't even think that those exist.

DoT got the kick up the bum needed to bring them into the 22nd Century.
justarider


This.

That we finally have a non-roads-based major transport project that isn't focussed on funnelling everybody through the CBD is a minor miracle. More people travel between different suburbs than travel in and out of the CBD each day, and to say that all that was required was an upgrade to the orbital bus network is missing the point entirely.

The bus network is never going to carry the passenger numbers that the SRL would carry if it were up and running today. In 20 years time, the number will be even bigger. Melbourne's population isn't going down any-time soon.

The fact that the SRL didn't come from the DoT is a blight on the DoT, not the government that is committing to building it regardless.
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
Except, the DoT that "should have been planning" had, in the opinion of govt completely lost the plot.

SRL is the child of Urban Planning. Much wider embrace that just "what train lines do we need to support our guess what train passengers want"

Just consider the NEICs that are integrated by SRL.    MONASH, BURWOOD/BOX HILL, LATROBE, BROADMEADOWS, AIRPORT, SUNSHINE.
The DoT "plans" were woeful, didn't even think that those exist.

DoT got the kick up the bum needed to bring them into the 22nd Century.
justarider
Still another 79 years to go, Duck Dodgers will be in the 24½th Century before our transport is fit for the 22nd century.
  Lockie91 Assistant Commissioner

All of this talk about rollingstock classes of the railways of England is fascinating but...

Just consider the NEICs that are integrated by SRL. MONASH, BURWOOD/BOX HILL, LATROBE, BROADMEADOWS, AIRPORT, SUNSHINE.
The DoT "plans" were woeful, didn't even think that those exist.

DoT got the kick up the bum needed to bring them into the 22nd Century.


This.

That we finally have a non-roads-based major transport project that isn't focussed on funnelling everybody through the CBD is a minor miracle. More people travel between different suburbs than travel in and out of the CBD each day, and to say that all that was required was an upgrade to the orbital bus network is missing the point entirely.

The bus network is never going to carry the passenger numbers that the SRL would carry if it were up and running today. In 20 years time, the number will be even bigger. Melbourne's population isn't going down any-time soon.

The fact that the SRL didn't come from the DoT is a blight on the DoT, not the government that is committing to building it regardless.
Gman_86
Couldn't agree more! The 'leaked' NDP which had projects out to 2030-2050 was still entirely focused on getting people to the CBD. The two mega projects in this 'plan' were MM2 and the Pakenham Express tunnel via Chadstone. Both of these at a cost of billions were about boosting capacity to get more people into the CBD.

The days of guess work are over, this isn't the 1990's. DoT has masses of data at its disposal telling them where people are travelling too. Myki data tells them where people are boarding and alighting, each card is numbered so they can tell who is travelling from Pakenham to Burwood. Or passengers that change at Inner City stations to Light Rail to reach inner city employment hubs.

Then there is Google Transit, the mother of all movement data. Each one of us has our phones on us. Google knows when we are on a train or driving, where we are going, how fast we are moving and where we have come from. Its knows when we walk to reach a PT stop, it knows how many trips we might make in a day. DoT has access to all of this and failed to come up with SRL on their own.

SRL despite how it has come about, will revolutionise inter suburban travel in Melbourne. This is what is planned out in Plan Melbourne 2050 - 20 minute neighbourhoods Employment, education and services all within 20 minutes of where you live. A document that DoT had from Development Victoria, but ignored.

My only criticism is Bus and Light Rail networks should be upgraded now to begin to deliver the benefits of SRL while it is under construction. Especially in the inner city were Light Rail is the SRL.

Lockie
  mejhammers1 Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
All of this talk about rollingstock classes of the railways of England is fascinating but...

Just consider the NEICs that are integrated by SRL. MONASH, BURWOOD/BOX HILL, LATROBE, BROADMEADOWS, AIRPORT, SUNSHINE.
The DoT "plans" were woeful, didn't even think that those exist.

DoT got the kick up the bum needed to bring them into the 22nd Century.


This.

That we finally have a non-roads-based major transport project that isn't focussed on funnelling everybody through the CBD is a minor miracle. More people travel between different suburbs than travel in and out of the CBD each day, and to say that all that was required was an upgrade to the orbital bus network is missing the point entirely.

The bus network is never going to carry the passenger numbers that the SRL would carry if it were up and running today. In 20 years time, the number will be even bigger. Melbourne's population isn't going down any-time soon.

The fact that the SRL didn't come from the DoT is a blight on the DoT, not the government that is committing to building it regardless.
Couldn't agree more! The 'leaked' NDP which had projects out to 2030-2050 was still entirely focused on getting people to the CBD. The two mega projects in this 'plan' were MM2 and the Pakenham Express tunnel via Chadstone. Both of these at a cost of billions were about boosting capacity to get more people into the CBD.

The days of guess work are over, this isn't the 1990's. DoT has masses of data at its disposal telling them where people are travelling too. Myki data tells them where people are boarding and alighting, each card is numbered so they can tell who is travelling from Pakenham to Burwood. Or passengers that change at Inner City stations to Light Rail to reach inner city employment hubs.

Then there is Google Transit, the mother of all movement data. Each one of us has our phones on us. Google knows when we are on a train or driving, where we are going, how fast we are moving and where we have come from. Its knows when we walk to reach a PT stop, it knows how many trips we might make in a day. DoT has access to all of this and failed to come up with SRL on their own.

SRL despite how it has come about, will revolutionise inter suburban travel in Melbourne. This is what is planned out in Plan Melbourne 2050 - 20 minute neighbourhoods Employment, education and services all within 20 minutes of where you live. A document that DoT had from Development Victoria, but ignored.

My only criticism is Bus and Light Rail networks should be upgraded now to begin to deliver the benefits of SRL while it is under construction. Especially in the inner city were Light Rail is the SRL.

Lockie
Lockie91
Fair enough, I hadn't thought of it that way. And I agree, Bus and Tram networks should be upgrade.


Michael

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