Regional Rail Revival - Geelong / Warrnambool Line Projects

 
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Will Camperdown lose It's crossing loop ? It would seem so.

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  Djebel Train Controller

Will it hurt anything to leave it in place?  Crossing freights, storage, etc.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Will it hurt anything to leave it in place?  Crossing freights, storage, etc.
Djebel
Heres the deal Camperdown is slow and short for crossing trains.

With the new crossing loops at Waurn Ponds, Warncoort (Existing) and  Boorcan the pass sections are basically 50 mins apart.
These days as far as possible you keep crossing loops away from stations.

The double loop at Boorcan with a centre crossover and effectively 500m in clear at East end, and 1200m in clear in the West End is designed to allow the PM Up Freight to put away in the long West end anc cross The PM Up Pass with the existing 1707 Dn altered to run earlier departing Southern Cross before 1600.

In the am the first Down can cross the second Up at Boorcan running to an earlier time out of Warrnmabool.

The Train Orders go and are replaced by  CTC which will speed things up a lot. It is believed taht follow on moves will be provided for in some sections, with provision follow on moves in all sections both  Up & Down eventually.

Again we cut corners with this project that the Up end junction at Warrnmabool is NOT incorporated within the CTC signalling syste.  The CTC signalling will utilize a fibre optic cable installed in the corridor some years ago by Victrack.

One doesnt keep crossing loops at places like Camperdown when the three evenly spaced loops and CTC can easily handle all forseeable traffic, plus allow for freight trains of 900m and even up to 1200m .
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Would signaling within Warrnambool yard limit be a separate future project associated with train stabling works ?

Locals are very upset that pedestrian access across the tracks at the Up end of the yard was closed off a year or so ago, and there are no plans to reinstate the crossing (It was an uncontroled maintenance crossing without any formal pedestrian pathway)
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
Just spotted this video......... don't blink too much or you'll miss it.

Warrnambool Line Upgrade and Waurn Ponds Station upgrade works.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opz_WYdYbmI

BigShunter.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Further detail on the upgrade between Geelong and WP shows no double track over the Barwon River.

Also see:

  • Second Platforms and Marshall and also South Geelong
  • 1 Level Crossing Removal only and but might be expensive at Fyns Street.
  • 8km of new duplicated track


Me smells no changes to poorly running services and bottlenecks not removed.  The Barwon River bridge should be a higher priority than the level crossing removal?
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
'... Me smells no changes to poorly running services and bottlenecks not removed. ...'

Oh dear, what a pity, so sad, too bad, never mind.

Just join the rest of the Victorian community!
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

Further detail on the upgrade between Geelong and WP shows no double track over the Barwon River.

Also see:

  • Second Platforms and Marshall and also South Geelong
  • 1 Level Crossing Removal only and but might be expensive at Fyns Street.
  • 8km of new duplicated track


Me smells no changes to poorly running services and bottlenecks not removed.  The Barwon River bridge should be a higher priority than the level crossing removal?
bevans
I agree. Fix the bridge while you are fixing everything else.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
@bevans and @Duncs are right why would you do an double track section and not do the bridge but a level crossing is done instead.

Looks like they are planning on sabotaging the line upgrades with trains being slowed or stopped for the bridge.
  Tony M. Junior Train Controller

Further detail on the upgrade between Geelong and WP shows no double track over the Barwon River.

Also see:

  • Second Platforms and Marshall and also South Geelong
  • 1 Level Crossing Removal only and but might be expensive at Fyns Street.
  • 8km of new duplicated track


Me smells no changes to poorly running services and bottlenecks not removed.  The Barwon River bridge should be a higher priority than the level crossing removal?
bevans

Isn't it common knowledge that level crossing removals are to benefit road users, not trains? It'd be nice if all this was to benefit rail users, but that's a relatively busy road for that part of Geelong and if they're planning to increase the number of trains going past South Geelong the boom gates are going to be down a lot more often.
  ngarner Deputy Commissioner

Location: Seville
The crossing of both the Barwon and another waterway near Waurn Ponds have been moved to a later stage of the upgrade. They are duplicating track and stations as the initial part of the program. After that the next stages may(will?) add bridges of the waterways and possibly duplicate the tunnel as well. Someone appears to have learnt from the freeway builders; build some, induce demand, build more, increase demand, and repeat until the initial desired project is complete. Smaller chunks of money required to complete a stage makes it easy to get it financed as well.

Neil
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
The crossing of both the Barwon and another waterway near Waurn Ponds have been moved to a later stage of the upgrade. They are duplicating track and stations as the initial part of the program. After that the next stages may(will?) add bridges of the waterways and possibly duplicate the tunnel as well. Someone appears to have learnt from the freeway builders; build some, induce demand, build more, increase demand, and repeat until the initial desired project is complete. Smaller chunks of money required to complete a stage makes it easy to get it financed as well.

Neil
ngarner
8 km's of new duplicated track Is better than none.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Further detail on the upgrade between Geelong and WP shows no double track over the Barwon River.

Also see:

  • Second Platforms and Marshall and also South Geelong
  • 1 Level Crossing Removal only and but might be expensive at Fyns Street.
  • 8km of new duplicated track


Me smells no changes to poorly running services and bottlenecks not removed.  The Barwon River bridge should be a higher priority than the level crossing removal?
bevans
The scope of work railwise is for two grade seps within Stage - 1 of the Rail project at Wood Street South Geelong and Surf Coast Highway (Grovedale).  A third level crossing at Barwon Heads Road Marshall is to be grade separtaed under a separate VicRoads project to duplicate the Barwon Heads Road between Breakwater Road at Belmont and Reserve Road at Grovedale.
  Riain Locomotive Fireman

The crossing of both the Barwon and another waterway near Waurn Ponds have been moved to a later stage of the upgrade. They are duplicating track and stations as the initial part of the program. After that the next stages may(will?) add bridges of the waterways and possibly duplicate the tunnel as well. Someone appears to have learnt from the freeway builders; build some, induce demand, build more, increase demand, and repeat until the initial desired project is complete. Smaller chunks of money required to complete a stage makes it easy to get it financed as well.

Neil
ngarner

A story an ex colleague who used to work for Telstra was quite instructive of what's happening. He said that in years gone by telephone infrastructure was installed under something like a 5 year engineering plan; a new estate would be opened up, the engineers would see how many houses were to be at the end, calculate how many phones lines etc that would been to be installed, how big the conduits needed, how many  access points, etc etc etc to the ends of the development. They'd then go and do one big job and install all of this in one go, then never have to go back because everything was in place. But then the money men took over, probably was Telstra was privatized and began doling out money in tiny portions, so would only pay for the infrastructure that was right in front of them, meaning it would have to be ripped up and replaced several times as the new development progressed.

I get the feeling looking at the way these projects seem to be panning out that the 'rail overlords' have an idea what they want but have taken their time to learn how to present it to the Government in approvable and fundable chunks. As you say, once the easy parts are duplicated there will be no choice but to build the bridges, it will be an obvious vote winner/loser to do otherwise.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
The management of the quarantine and the Westgate tunnel sorry overpass in Victoria has highlighted how dysfunctional planning and execution of projects is in Victoria.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
A story an ex colleague who used to work for Telstra was quite instructive of what's happening. He said that in years gone by telephone infrastructure was installed under something like a 5 year engineering plan; a new estate would be opened up, the engineers would see how many houses were to be at the end, calculate how many phones lines etc that would been to be installed, how big the conduits needed, how many  access points, etc etc etc to the ends of the development. They'd then go and do one big job and install all of this in one go, then never have to go back because everything was in place. But then the money men took over, probably was Telstra was privatized and began doling out money in tiny portions, so would only pay for the infrastructure that was right in front of them, meaning it would have to be ripped up and replaced several times as the new development progressed.

I get the feeling looking at the way these projects seem to be panning out that the 'rail overlords' have an idea what they want but have taken their time to learn how to present it to the Government in approvable and fundable chunks. As you say, once the easy parts are duplicated there will be no choice but to build the bridges, it will be an obvious vote winner/loser to do otherwise.
Riain
The best solution is somewhere between the old way and the current method. I don't know how old you are but from my experience the rose-tinted glasses view of the way things were done "back in't day" ignores the fact that there was chronic waste and miss-management in many of the organisations charged with delivering these kinds of projects

I have a couple of friends who worked for Telecom and oh how they pine for those good old days getting paid very well to do not very much. Likewise a mate who had family working at Comeng where he claims there was almost as much sleeping going on as working at various stages. Shades of British Leyland there if you have ever read the tales of whole rooms being given over to sleeping quarters for people who were supposed to be on shift!

Personally I worked for both Victorian and Commonwealth state owned banks and the Commonwealth was a real eye opener in terms of how inflexible and downright wasteful the Public Service could be.

It's oh too easy to spend other peoples money which is why governments almost universally have moved away from such models towards a private sector approach (which as I say is far from perfect itself)
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
Agreed Brenton. Rose tinted glasses.

Was there back in the day.

@Riain is correct that the engineers fully planned out what the future estate would require.

Then the bill went to the developer. Queue in the sound of crickets.

Finally got around to agreement to pay after the roads and pavement were all laid and first sales ticked off.
Then cries of "bloody telecom" when told "you're off this years plan, maybe next(or two)". The bean counters' budget did matter, plenty of other projects to get on with.

Same thing happened with electricity (until undergound became quasi mandatory) and gas.
Lucky that MMBW had the legal clout to say "no drains, no planning approval"

cheers
John

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