The China Problem

 
  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
Assuming this refers to my post above, as I stated, it was a first hand account from someone I know and trust.
Graham4405

You can trust whom you like, but did you ask him in which town this happened? Did he report said establishment and ensure it was closed down? Did he take the time to explain to the poor restaurant owners that their method of rinsing rice had numerous disadvantages; as well as the obvious administrative risks, it's incredibly wasteful of water in an area where such things count, and the water pressure would knock most of the rice out of the colander, forcing them to pick it back out of the bowl grain by grain or just flush it away and try again. The story is obviously absolute nonsense and was probably told in the context of playful banter and joke telling. It's just a pity that it still seems acceptable to have our Chinese brothers and sisters at the pointy end of such infantile nonsense.

Edit; I have a cousin living in overseas who once told me she saw a story on the television saying that Australians are so rich and stupid that some have bathtubs with solid gold taps, and they only use the bathtubs for sheepdip, certainly not for bathing, which was something they only did in the surf. I told her not to believe such arrant nonsense, however much she trusted the source.

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  Carnot Minister for Railways

In my home town there were some wonderful Chinese people driving around in cars with banners denouncing the CCP.  Great to see.

As for the CCP ambassador in Australia:
  Graham4405 The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dalby Qld
Assuming this refers to my post above, as I stated, it was a first hand account from someone I know and trust.

You can trust whom you like, but did you ask him in which town this happened?
billybaxter
No, I had no need to because he told me that as part of the story.
Did he report said establishment and ensure it was closed down?
billybaxter
Yes and yes. That was his job.
Did he take the time to explain to the poor restaurant owners that their method of rinsing rice had numerous disadvantages; as well as the obvious administrative risks, it's incredibly wasteful of water in an area where such things count, and the water pressure would knock most of the rice out of the colander, forcing them to pick it back out of the bowl grain by grain or just flush it away and try again.
billybaxter
I don't recall him telling me that he did so, this was more than 15 years ago. It would have been unnecessary to tell that as part of the story even if he did so at the time. Anyway how would you know that they were poor?
The story is obviously absolute nonsense and was probably told in the context of playful banter and joke telling.
billybaxter
I didn't take it as such and I don't believe it was such, however you seem to have made up your mind about this story, believe whatever you wish, it's no skin off my nose.
  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
I've made up my mind that it's a racist story because it obviously is.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
In my home town there were some wonderful Chinese people driving around in cars with banners denouncing the CCP.  Great to see.
Carnot
I once knew a Chinese bloke at my work who was very educated and also very, very afraid of the CCP - even though he'd been living in this country for a few decades.

I once asked him why he was so afraid of the CCP and he told me that the Party has 'very long arms' and that they could easily reach any dissenters in this country and that he's witnessed harassment and intimidation in the Chinese community - he said they operate here with very little apparent interest from the Australian government through thinly veiled 'cultural organisations'.

I genuinely didn't realise that many Chinese Australians felt that way, that many felt they had no right to freedom of expression even though they're a world away from China. My only wish is that the CCP activities in this country were policed better so that people could live without fear here.
  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
If such a thing exists it's because the Australian government is more interested in painting good relationship with a long term customer and keeping a steady supply of cheap manufactured trinkets, the $30 Bunnings hacks, flowing in to keep the Australian public happy. It's clear that the economics and the luxury life is more important to Australians than the mental comfort of Johnny foreigners. It's the approach that you, Don, claim is the only sensible one. If it's good for the bottom line Don, you'd be the first one on your soapbox claiming it's correct. Make up your mind! The Australian government would be well off ensuring its own indigenous population can live without fear before worrying about people who feel a bit uneasy about foreign law enforcement agencies.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
If such a thing exists it's because the Australian government is more interested in painting good relationship with a long term customer and keeping a steady supply of cheap manufactured trinkets, the $30 Bunnings hacks, flowing in to keep the Australian public happy. It's clear that the economics and the luxury life is more important to Australians than the mental comfort of Johnny foreigners. It's the approach that you, Don, claim is the only sensible one. If it's good for the bottom line Don, you'd be the first one on your soapbox claiming it's correct. Make up your mind! The Australian government would be well off ensuring its own indigenous population can live without fear before worrying about people who feel a bit uneasy about foreign law enforcement agencies.
billybaxter
How would you feel about agents from a foreign state showing up on your doorstep late at night, Billy?
  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
Well let me ask you this, Mr. High and Mighty. How would you, as an Australian citizen, feel, knowing that a foreign power was pursuing its citizens, decades later, to the ends of the earth, citizens who had committed heinous crimes, let's say crimes of morality against children, or terrorism? Would you be worried that the seemingly innocent foreigner fretted about the long arm of the law of their homeland,  that chills ran down his spine at every creak on the patio late at night?  I doubt it. You'd probably feel a little bit safer and secure, knowing that foreign las enforcement was picking up where local hands are tied. I'm not saying that this is the case with your 'Chinese friend' as you call him, but you certainly seem willing to accept any story at face value if it fits your political agenda.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Australia 'needs to be very alert to what China is doing'

National Security Institute Director Peter Leahy says Australia needs to be “very alert to what China is doing” as the tensions in the Taiwan Strait escalate into what could be a “flashpoint” for war.

“We need to be very alert to what China is doing and we need to be very conscious of what the United States is doing and … the flashpoint could very well be Taiwan," he told Sky News.

Mr Leahy said wars had progressed beyond the capabilities possible in World War II and said China could take an approach which could affect many areas at once.

“We’re seeing what is now called fourth generation or hybrid war where we’re being attacked right across the spectrum of capability, so the cyberattacks, the information attacks, and all those sorts of things are going on now.”

“We need to be careful right now, there is tension and I’m not sure how people are going to react right across the board".

https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6249036251001
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Well let me ask you this, Mr. High and Mighty. How would you, as an Australian citizen, feel, knowing that a foreign power was pursuing its citizens, decades later, to the ends of the earth, citizens who had committed heinous crimes, let's say crimes of morality against children, or terrorism? Would you be worried that the seemingly innocent foreigner fretted about the long arm of the law of their homeland,  that chills ran down his spine at every creak on the patio late at night?  I doubt it. You'd probably feel a little bit safer and secure, knowing that foreign las enforcement was picking up where local hands are tied. I'm not saying that this is the case with your 'Chinese friend' as you call him, but you certainly seem willing to accept any story at face value if it fits your political agenda.
billybaxter
If there are indeed people who have committed heinous crimes overseas in Australia, the correct method of addressing it is for the foreign government to front up at the Federal Court of Australia and show that (a) they have jurisdiction, (b) that the alleged crime is of sufficient magnitude as to be worthy of extradition, and (c) that there is sufficient evidence to support the prosecution case in a fair trial.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Well let me ask you this, Mr. High and Mighty. How would you, as an Australian citizen, feel, knowing that a foreign power was pursuing its citizens, decades later, to the ends of the earth, citizens who had committed heinous crimes, let's say crimes of morality against children, or terrorism? Would you be worried that the seemingly innocent foreigner fretted about the long arm of the law of their homeland,  that chills ran down his spine at every creak on the patio late at night?  I doubt it. You'd probably feel a little bit safer and secure, knowing that foreign las enforcement was picking up where local hands are tied. I'm not saying that this is the case with your 'Chinese friend' as you call him, but you certainly seem willing to accept any story at face value if it fits your political agenda.
billybaxter
Yeah well he told me his 'crime' in China was writing an article about a party dealing that had gone wrong and next thing he was in jail - this was pre-Tianamen.

Don't be so naive Billy, the majority of the intimidation has to do with keeping the Chinese community in Australia in line - they're often here fleeing political persecution. Look at Jack Ma, one of the richest men in China but still suffered the wrath of the party after saying something seemingly innocuous about the Chinese banking system.

Communism doesn't muck around, Billy, the only reason they're still in power in the 21st century was that they proved how far they were prepared to go in 1989. You seriously think The Party doesn't operate large-scale intelligence and political policing of ex-pats in this country, you're dreaming.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

Well let me ask you this, Mr. High and Mighty. How would you, as an Australian citizen, feel, knowing that a foreign power was pursuing its citizens, decades later, to the ends of the earth, citizens who had committed heinous crimes, let's say crimes of morality against children, or terrorism? Would you be worried that the seemingly innocent foreigner fretted about the long arm of the law of their homeland,  that chills ran down his spine at every creak on the patio late at night?  I doubt it. You'd probably feel a little bit safer and secure, knowing that foreign las enforcement was picking up where local hands are tied. I'm not saying that this is the case with your 'Chinese friend' as you call him, but you certainly seem willing to accept any story at face value if it fits your political agenda.
Yeah well he told me his 'crime' in China was writing an article about a party dealing that had gone wrong and next thing he was in jail - this was pre-Tianamen.

Don't be so naive Billy, the majority of the intimidation has to do with keeping the Chinese community in Australia in line - they're often here fleeing political persecution. Look at Jack Ma, one of the richest men in China but still suffered the wrath of the party after saying something seemingly innocuous about the Chinese banking system.

Communism doesn't muck around, Billy, the only reason they're still in power in the 21st century was that they proved how far they were prepared to go in 1989. You seriously think The Party doesn't operate large-scale intelligence and political policing of ex-pats in this country, you're dreaming.
don_dunstan
And what gives you the idea that bodies like ASIO aren't actively tracking down mainland Chinese provocateurs in this country?
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
And what gives you the idea that bodies like ASIO aren't actively tracking down mainland Chinese provocateurs in this country?
nswtrains
Under-resourcing and a lack of political will. From the Guardian;

Mike Burgess, ASIO’s director general, told a Senate estimates hearing in October [2020] that there were more foreign agents and their proxies operating in Australia than at the height of the cold war, but did not go into further detail, declining to even name the countries responsible.

Chinese operatives are having a picnic over here, they're anywhere and everywhere with their money and influence abusing our economic freedoms to try and make sure we're as crippled as possible by their future belligerent bullying. AND the CCP rather ironically loves our freedoms: They can buy politicians off, buy strategic assets like ports and huge farms/industries and use CCP money to do whatever they like with hardly any oversight at all from our government because they simply lack the stomach to take them on... they're frightened of them like they want us to be.

At the same time they're 'insisting' that in order to 'normalise' our trade relationship with them that we must take action on:

  • Banning Huawei from the roll-out of 5G over "unfounded" national security concerns
  • Foreign interference laws, "viewed as targeting China and in the absence of any evidence"
  • Calls for an inquiry into the origins of the coronavirus - "siding with the US' anti-China campaign"
  • Speaking out on the South China Sea
  • Speaking out on human rights allegations in Xinjiang, accusing the government of "peddling lies"
  • "Thinly veiled" allegations against China on cyber attacks which Beijing says lacks evidence
  • And new foreign relations laws which give the federal government power to veto state, or local government agreements with foreign governments

So in order for us to have  'normal' trade relationship with them we have to make them a special client state immune from any criticism and/or legal action. If you can't see the long term danger that this presents to our liberal democracy then frankly you're stupid.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
It is pleasing to see that, with the standout exception of wine, many of our export commodities have been redirected to other overseas markets, and the manufacturers/growers/exporters are very happy about it.

With any luck, China's shenanigans just might come back and bite it in a sensitive spot.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

And what gives you the idea that bodies like ASIO aren't actively tracking down mainland Chinese provocateurs in this country?
Under-resourcing and a lack of political will. From the Guardian;

Mike Burgess, ASIO’s director general, told a Senate estimates hearing in October [2020] that there were more foreign agents and their proxies operating in Australia than at the height of the cold war, but did not go into further detail, declining to even name the countries responsible.

Chinese operatives are having a picnic over here, they're anywhere and everywhere with their money and influence abusing our economic freedoms to try and make sure we're as crippled as possible by their future belligerent bullying. AND the CCP rather ironically loves our freedoms: They can buy politicians off, buy strategic assets like ports and huge farms/industries and use CCP money to do whatever they like with hardly any oversight at all from our government because they simply lack the stomach to take them on... they're frightened of them like they want us to be.

At the same time they're 'insisting' that in order to 'normalise' our trade relationship with them that we must take action on:

  • Banning Huawei from the roll-out of 5G over "unfounded" national security concerns
  • Foreign interference laws, "viewed as targeting China and in the absence of any evidence"
  • Calls for an inquiry into the origins of the coronavirus - "siding with the US' anti-China campaign"
  • Speaking out on the South China Sea
  • Speaking out on human rights allegations in Xinjiang, accusing the government of "peddling lies"
  • "Thinly veiled" allegations against China on cyber attacks which Beijing says lacks evidence
  • And new foreign relations laws which give the federal government power to veto state, or local government agreements with foreign governments

So in order for us to have  'normal' trade relationship with them we have to make them a special client state immune from any criticism and/or legal action. If you can't see the long term danger that this presents to our liberal democracy then frankly you're stupid.
don_dunstan
And what gives you the idea that a newspaper knows the full story?
  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
So, if I understand correctly, Australia is not spending enough on security, has left gaps in the fence, China is taking advantage of this and so it is China's fault. They should step back and call time out until we get our house in order, because I guess this is what intelligence services normally do. Chinese security and intelligence is not playing fair and everyone else does.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
And what gives you the idea that a newspaper knows the full story?
nswtrains
So is there an actual counterpoint or are you just here to wave the flag for the CCP?
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
So, if I understand correctly, Australia is not spending enough on security, has left gaps in the fence, China is taking advantage of this and so it is China's fault. They should step back and call time out until we get our house in order, because I guess this is what intelligence services normally do. Chinese security and intelligence is not playing fair and everyone else does.
billybaxter
So we should go hard and expel any and all CCP operatives in this country - good to know.

How do you think the trade relationship will go after that happens?
  billybaxter Chief Commissioner

Location: Bosnia Park, Fairfield
Once more, Don plays one of his favourite games, this one called 'I know you do'. Most people give it up after about 2nd form at high school, but not Don, he keeps the light burning.

I'm not sure playing Hard Ball with China is such a great idea. Who do you think will win that one? Who has more resources and most experience at that one? It's probably all a bit too late anyway. Australia has bent over, touched it's toes, might as well enjoy what's coming!
  arctic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Zurich
Federal government tears up four Victorian government deals with foreign nations

The federal government says it has torn up four agreements between Victoria and foreign nations, including two linked to the state government's contentious Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) deal with China.

ABC
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: Standing at the limit of an endless ocean
Federal government tears up four Victorian government deals with foreign nations

The federal government says it has torn up four agreements between Victoria and foreign nations, including two linked to the state government's contentious Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) deal with China.

ABC
arctic
And as others have noted elsewhere, by comparison the 99-year leasing of the Port of Darwin to a Chinese company is a-ok because it happened under the federal coalition.
  arctic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Zurich
Federal government tears up four Victorian government deals with foreign nations

The federal government says it has torn up four agreements between Victoria and foreign nations, including two linked to the state government's contentious Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) deal with China.

ABC
And as others have noted elsewhere, by comparison the 99-year leasing of the Port of Darwin to a Chinese company is a-ok because it happened under the federal coalition.
DirtyBallast
Not really "a-ok". According to the Feds this was a local (NT government) thing and the NT govt confirms. The Feds were not and still are not happy about though I dont see how it could be true the Feds did not know - maybe not at the right level. Again ABC.

Unlike the paper "frame" agreements in Vic, the one in NT is a binding contract over an actual asset and is difficult to unwind, in any case it was a diabolically stupid decision which in my opinion we should break the lease and take it back.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Meanwhile, New Xi-Land continues to cosy up to Beijing.  They know that with their current 'defence' force the Chinese Military would take about 5 hours to conquer the entire joint....

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-04-19/new-zealand-five-eyes-intelligence-sharing-china-australia/100078834



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xUYbI64QHI
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
Federal government tears up four Victorian government deals with foreign nations

The federal government says it has torn up four agreements between Victoria and foreign nations, including two linked to the state government's contentious Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) deal with China.

ABC
arctic

Ultimately the Feds may rue the day they poked the Panda. The flow on effects from the loss of Chinese students being educated here and the potential loss of our raw materials exports, could ultimately create a very difficult political and economic situation.

Dan's MoU with China was a document that was a potential conduit to improving the political situation with China. At the moment after the Feds chest beating there's nothing left in the drawer.

Mike.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Federal government tears up four Victorian government deals with foreign nations

The federal government says it has torn up four agreements between Victoria and foreign nations, including two linked to the state government's contentious Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) deal with China.

ABC

Ultimately the Feds may rue the day they poked the Panda. The flow on effects from the loss of Chinese students being educated here and the potential loss of our raw materials exports, could ultimately create a very difficult political and economic situation.

Dan's MoU with China was a document that was a potential conduit to improving the political situation with China. At the moment after the Feds chest beating there's nothing left in the drawer.

Mike.
The Vinelander
No it wasn't.  It was an agreement to make us even more indebted to the CCP overlords.

I'm glad it was ripped up.  We shouldn't do deals with genocidal regimes.

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