Standard Gauge VLocity

 
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
What does 'high capacity regional train' mean in practice? IIUC the high capacity Metro are basically 7 carriage trains to use the full platform length, with no wasted space. Will the HCRT be a 7 carriage vlocity?
Riain
Don't the HCMT trains also have less seats so more standing room = more passengers?

N sets with their 3 + 2 economy seating configuration have a higher capacity that a V/Locity carriage do they not?

Unlike Bill I much prefer the Low Capacity Regional Train (ie Velo) to the N set Laughing

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  duttonbay Minister for Railways

Unlike Bill I much prefer the Low Capacity Regional Train (ie Velo) to the N set Laughing
BrentonGolding


So do I.
  Riain Locomotive Fireman

What does 'high capacity regional train' mean in practice? IIUC the high capacity Metro are basically 7 carriage trains to use the full platform length, with no wasted space. Will the HCRT be a 7 carriage vlocity?
Don't the HCMT trains also have less seats so more standing room = more passengers?

N sets with their 3 + 2 economy seating configuration have a higher capacity that a V/Locity carriage do they not?

Unlike Bill I much prefer the Low Capacity Regional Train (ie Velo) to the N set Laughing
BrentonGolding

I don't know, I've not been on a HC metro. I know that the centre carriage on a vlocity can carry more people than the end carriages because the drivers cab takes up space, and platforms can accommodate 7 carriage long trains because back in the day vlocitys used to have 3+2+2. My guess is that the 7th carriage, no wasted space with 2 drivers cabs and more standing room is how they make a metro train 'high capacity'.

I assume HCRT means maxing out the capacity of the 4 abreast vlocity with 7 carriages and less drivers cabs, rather than cramming in another seat abreast. Am I close to the mark?
  Riain Locomotive Fireman

Unlike Bill I much prefer the Low Capacity Regional Train (ie Velo) to the N set Laughing


So do I.
duttonbay

My morning train of choice when not in lockdown has a first class carriage, I always go for it so I'm not rubbing up against someone in a 5 abreast seat.

You're welcome!
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia

I don't know, I've not been on a HC metro. I know that the centre carriage on a vlocity can carry more people than the end carriages because the drivers cab takes up space, and platforms can accommodate 7 carriage long trains because back in the day vlocitys used to have 3+2+2. My guess is that the 7th carriage, no wasted space with 2 drivers cabs and more standing room is how they make a metro train 'high capacity'.

I assume HCRT means maxing out the capacity of the 4 abreast vlocity with 7 carriages and less drivers cabs, rather than cramming in another seat abreast. Am I close to the mark?
Riain

I have not been on a regional train for a while given covid but recall on the geelong line at least 3 + 2 seating across the carriage?

What will the long distance regional sets have in terms of seating configuration?
  Tii Junior Train Controller

It's crickets on when the standard sets might appear for testing. The line upgrade is done, the trains were due late this year but no hard hat, high-vis PR stunts yet to show them on test. Has anyone spied one yet?
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
It's crickets on when the standard sets might appear for testing. The line upgrade is done, the trains were due late this year but no hard hat, high-vis PR stunts yet to show them on test. Has anyone spied one yet?
Tii

There will be the always on delays from Victoria.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
We have heard nothing up this way despite the track work having been completed. Just frustrating and again poor planning by the government.
  Tii Junior Train Controller

We have heard nothing up this way despite the track work having been completed. Just frustrating and again poor planning by the government.
freightgate
I understand that the track upgrade was ahead of planned completion and the Vlocity was delayed by Covid lockdowns but still....a photo release dangling ahead of an official rollout would keep us satisfied.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner


I don't know, I've not been on a HC metro. I know that the centre carriage on a vlocity can carry more people than the end carriages because the drivers cab takes up space, and platforms can accommodate 7 carriage long trains because back in the day vlocitys used to have 3+2+2. My guess is that the 7th carriage, no wasted space with 2 drivers cabs and more standing room is how they make a metro train 'high capacity'.

I assume HCRT means maxing out the capacity of the 4 abreast vlocity with 7 carriages and less drivers cabs, rather than cramming in another seat abreast. Am I close to the mark?
I have not been on a regional train for a while given covid but recall on the geelong line at least 3 + 2 seating across the carriage?

What will the long distance regional sets have in terms of seating configuration?
bevans
Long distance Inter City VL with catering module.  2 seats either side of centre aisle. 150 seats over 3 cars comapred to 222 for Commuter type 3 car VL sets.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

The lower capacity of the SG VLocity is due to buffet (Modern Catering Facility) and additional bike racks and wheel chair space.

The seating capacities of the VLocity are:
DM(D) - 48 (includes 2 x 4-club seat arrangement)
TM - 30 (includes 4 x 4-club seat arrangement with shared tables)
DM - 66 (includes 4 x 4-club seat arrangement)

Total - 144

In addition, the TM has 4 x side-facing fold-up seats in the MCF area and 4 x standard seats for wheel chair companions. There are 12 x side-facing fold-up seats in the 6 x wheel chair bays in the DM(D) and TM cars.

Assuming the diagrams are to scale, in a 2 x 3-car VLocity the two unused driving modules (12 each) and the extra MCF (30) take up space for about 54 seats as opposed to a 6-car walk-through unit.


From the Department of Transport New train and tram orders website.

Shows the seat layout for SG VLocity:
https://transport.vic.gov.au/-/media/tfv-documents/final-factsheet-for-web---ne-vlocity---april-2021.pdf?la=en&hash=1ABD812BDD0E483904351D3280CF3EB4


Scroll down a bit, for a virtual tour:
https://transport.vic.gov.au/our-transport-future/our-projects/new-and-upgraded-trains-and-trams/new-train-and-tram-orders#VlocityNE
  route14 Chief Commissioner

A myopic design.
  Galron Chief Commissioner

Location: Werribee, Vic
not that its of any consequence at this point, but doing away with the middle cabs and having fixed 6 car sets would have been far better, and only necessitate a single buffet for the set. Yes, i am well aware of the advantages, but if you retained 4 powered cars that should give more than ample redundancy.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

A 5-car walk-through design would have about the same capacity as 2 x 3-car. As 130 km/h will be the max speed, 4 powered cars should be sufficient.

Still, one shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
A 5-car walk-through design would have about the same capacity as 2 x 3-car. As 130 km/h will be the max speed, 4 powered cars should be sufficient.

Still, one shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth.
kitchgp
It would be of interest to know the pax numbers on some of the routes that these new trains are going to ply presuming that this design will be used on the Broad Guage down the track to replace the N sets. I think the NE SG is a bit different to the rest but I'll talk about the one I know which is the Swan Hill

From my observations  I reckon that a 3 car set would be more than adequate for the Bendigo > SH leg of the trip for most parts of the year. They could do what they currently do with the Echuca and run 3 cars SH > Bendigo and then couple up to another set to pick up the extra pax from Bendigo to Southern Cross. And running the other way 2 x 3 car sets out of SC with pax from Swan Hill told to board the front set and then drop the rear set at Bendigo

Like I say would be interesting to see the numbers of pax who do Bendigo > SH, Echuca, Ballarat > Aararat, Maryborough, Geetroit to Warnambool etc etc to see whether this has informed the design at all. Or am I giving too much credit!!!
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

With the broad gauge Inter City V/locity runs and frequencies like Weeldays
- Warrnambool 5 each way  Swan Hill 3 each way, Bairnsdale 4 each way then they will probably get away with the trick of departing Melbourne on the Down with 3 car InterCity leading attached to a 3 car Commuter set trailing detach Waurn Ponds, Bendigo or Traralgon and ditto attach  on the returning Up.

SG wise above the initially ordered 6 x 3 car sg Inter City sets they are going to need to order a further 2 - 4 x sg 3 car sets to deliver the promised VLP Albury sg frequency of 5 return trips on Weekdays.

On all Inter City corridors (Warrnambool, Swan Hill, Albury, and Bairnsdale) beyond the Inter-urban area the loadings drop off progressively along the line all the way to the terminal station with the exception of Warrnamabool line.  Here on departing Geelong 50 % of pax departing Geelong alight at stations on the Down side of Geelong to Warrnambool inclusive, with the other 50 % travelling beyond Warrnambool by connecting VLP coaches to Port Fairy, Portland and Mt Gambier.
  8502 Chief Train Controller

VL93 with buffet installed transferred today from Dandenong on BG and has arrived at South Dynon. Expect some conversion work to start on the change to Standard Gauge.

Maybe we will see some test running soon?
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

With the broad gauge Inter City V/locity runs and frequencies like Weeldays
- Warrnambool 5 each way  Swan Hill 3 each way, Bairnsdale 4 each way then they will probably get away with the trick of departing Melbourne on the Down with 3 car InterCity leading attached to a 3 car Commuter set trailing detach Waurn Ponds, Bendigo or Traralgon and ditto attach  on the returning Up.

SG wise above the initially ordered 6 x 3 car sg Inter City sets they are going to need to order a further 2 - 4 x sg 3 car sets to deliver the promised VLP Albury sg frequency of 5 return trips on Weekdays.

On all Inter City corridors (Warrnambool, Swan Hill, Albury, and Bairnsdale) beyond the Inter-urban area the loadings drop off progressively along the line all the way to the terminal station with the exception of Warrnamabool line.  Here on departing Geelong 50 % of pax departing Geelong alight at stations on the Down side of Geelong to Warrnambool inclusive, with the other 50 % travelling beyond Warrnambool by connecting VLP coaches to Port Fairy, Portland and Mt Gambier.
kuldalai
Expect second Inter City unit 94 at Dynon shortly to make up first 6 car sg set. Then famil runs and driver famil Dynon to Seymour in coming months.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
A 5-car walk-through design would have about the same capacity as 2 x 3-car. As 130 km/h will be the max speed, 4 powered cars should be sufficient.

Still, one shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth.
kitchgp
It would be of interest to know the pax numbers on some of the routes that these new trains are going to ply presuming that this design will be used on the Broad Guage down the track to replace the N sets. I think the NE SG is a bit different to the rest but I'll talk about the one I know which is the Swan Hill

From my observations  I reckon that a 3 car set would be more than adequate for the Bendigo > SH leg of the trip for most parts of the year. They could do what they currently do with the Echuca and run 3 cars SH > Bendigo and then couple up to another set to pick up the extra pax from Bendigo to Southern Cross. And running the other way 2 x 3 car sets out of SC with pax from Swan Hill told to board the front set and then drop the rear set at Bendigo

Like I say would be interesting to see the numbers of pax who do Bendigo > SH, Echuca, Ballarat > Aararat, Maryborough, Geetroit to Warnambool etc etc to see whether this has informed the design at all. Or am I giving too much credit!!!
"BrentonGolding"


Pre & Post COVID, I think a lot of people who need to travel from Swan Hill or Kerang to Melbourne ultimately drive to Bendigo and catch a frequent service from there as the existing train service from Swan Hill is approaching glacial speeds as the timetable constantly stretches out to allow for...I have no idea what.
Some of the buses from Bendigo to Swan Hill and vice-versa are now on par or faster than the N set which never used to be the case.

Once the V'Locity's are introduced to/from Swan Hill and necessary infrastructure like LX protection and some track upgrades are in place, I can see an uptick in local Swan Hill and Kerang pax and also an increase in pax from Mildura on the bus services, assuming the connection times at Swan Hill become more realistic and NOT up to one HOUR as is currently the case with the most popular services to/from Mildura...again, I have no idea why.

Mike.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Expect second Inter City unit 94 at Dynon shortly to make up first 6 car sg set. Then famil runs and driver famil Dynon to Seymour in coming months.
kuldalai

@freightgate i bet you are looking forward to those new units? Smile
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
Expect second Inter City unit 94 at Dynon shortly to make up first 6 car sg set. Then famil runs and driver famil Dynon to Seymour in coming months.
kuldalai

@freightgate i bet you are looking forward to those new units? Smile
"bevans"


For the more sensitive of hearing I believe Bunnings sells bulk foam ear plugs for industrial use.

M.
  NimbleJack Locomotive Fireman

There are no plans to bring the standard-gauge VLocity model across to broad gauge.

People here need to stop smoking funny herbs.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
There are no plans to bring the standard-gauge VLocity model across to broad gauge.

People here need to stop smoking funny herbs.
"NimbleJack"


That's not entirely correct.

There are plans to replace ALL the N Sets currently operating the Inter-City services. To do this a BG version of the upcoming Albury SG V'Locity's will become their replacement.

Mike.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
There are no plans to bring the standard-gauge VLocity model across to broad gauge.

People here need to stop smoking funny herbs.
NimbleJack

Are you speaking about the specific SG design?
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

There are no plans to bring the standard-gauge VLocity model across to broad gauge.

People here need to stop smoking funny herbs.


That's not entirely correct.

There are plans to replace ALL the N Sets currently operating the Inter-City services. To do this a BG version of the upcoming Albury SG V'Locity's will become their replacement.

Mike.
The Vinelander
Shepparton will get Commuter type V/locities.  Swan Hill,  Warrnambool and Bairnsdale will get the Inter City variant but on bg bogies.  The track upgrade on Warrnambool is already jointly funded by Feds & Vic. Initially allowing 115kmh, and when 100 % concrete sleepers 130 kmh.

The loco hauled N sets on bg start getting phased out from around 2025

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