Standard Gauge VLocity

 
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

There are no plans to bring the standard-gauge VLocity model across to broad gauge.

People here need to stop smoking funny herbs.

Are you speaking about the specific SG design?
bevans
I think the SG Vlocities are the initial design for long haul DMUS. The follow up V Locity design will be for long haul BG.

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  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

It should only require a change of the wheelsets.

Are the long-haul getting a different prefix (if not a different numbering sequence), say VS, rather than VL?
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Why would the design of a long haul SG Vlocity need to be different from a long haul BG Vlocity?.
Surely there would have to be synergies in uniformity*?

* I nearly said standardisation but then realised that I was in Wictoria where the word is banned.
  NimbleJack Locomotive Fireman

There are no plans - or even plans to discuss plans - for any form of 'long-haul' broad-gauge VLocity.

If polished spittoons and high tea ever return to broad gauge, such amenities will be adapted to whatever DMU design succeeds the VLocity.

I suspect most here will be in urns by the time that happens.
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Why would the design of a long haul SG Vlocity need to be different from a long haul BG Vlocity?.
Surely there would have to be synergies in uniformity*?

* I nearly said standardisation but then realised that I was in Wictoria where the word is banned.
YM-Mundrabilla
Indeed, I feel like we are raking over old ground here. The Velo design morphed out of the SG Explorer / Endeavor which is obviously an SG train. I know the design was changed a bit but I would have thought the outline / carbody was pretty much the same

Changes from the BG design to the SG would be limited to interior plus cab (more protection for the driver maybe) but surely not a complete re-design of the vehicle.

So to put the long haul onto BG would just involve a change of bogies. Or am I missing something?
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Why would the design of a long haul SG Vlocity need to be different from a long haul BG Vlocity?.
Surely there would have to be synergies in uniformity*?

* I nearly said standardisation but then realised that I was in Wictoria where the word is banned.
Indeed, I feel like we are raking over old ground here. The Velo design morphed out of the SG Explorer / Endeavor which is obviously an SG train. I know the design was changed a bit but I would have thought the outline / carbody was pretty much the same

Changes from the BG design to the SG would be limited to interior plus cab (more protection for the driver maybe) but surely not a complete re-design of the vehicle.

So to put the long haul onto BG would just involve a change of bogies. Or am I missing something?
BrentonGolding
You are missing only one salient point - Vline .................
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Why would the design of a long haul SG Vlocity need to be different from a long haul BG Vlocity?.
Surely there would have to be synergies in uniformity*?

* I nearly said standardisation but then realised that I was in Wictoria where the word is banned.
Indeed, I feel like we are raking over old ground here. The Velo design morphed out of the SG Explorer / Endeavor which is obviously an SG train. I know the design was changed a bit but I would have thought the outline / carbody was pretty much the same

Changes from the BG design to the SG would be limited to interior plus cab (more protection for the driver maybe) but surely not a complete re-design of the vehicle.

So to put the long haul onto BG would just involve a change of bogies. Or am I missing something?
BrentonGolding
To those who say the Inter City type V/Locity will NOT be used on bg, well they have already been announced for Warrnambool line and track upgrade is funded and starting shortly.
Shepparton is to go from loco hauled to Commuter type V/Locity initially bg at 8 - 9 return trips on Weekdays
A recent webinar briefed those interested that N/Z sets are to be phased out from 2025 on Inter City services.
The only new train type being looked at is a high capacity outer Metro DMU train type for VLP to use on Wyndhamvale and Melton services.   This would potentially allow for more recent bg commuter V/Locities to be released for Inter City fit out like new Albury sets. It only takes something like 12 Inter City bg VL train sets to run Warrnambool, Swan Hill and Bairnsdale including  PPM/Spare sets.
Government is NOT going to be developing yet another DMU train type for bg Inter City routes when it alraedy has the new Inter City train type in the sg Innter City design. (There are huge costs in introducing additional train types.)
This means medium term VLP end up with four DMU train types for efficiency maintenance spares etc.
- Commuter V/locity sets - bg  mainly seating 222 seats (4 idiot orphan sets 234 seats and single toilet.)
- Inter City V/Locity sets - 150 seats  over sg and bg (interchangeable - just swap bogies)
- Sprinters - bg 21 of
- High Capacity outer Metro DMU train type bg

The larger part of this fleet are V/Locity trains with commonality in traction gear, spares etc.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

The first 2 Tulloch DRCs were a NSW SG design purchased new. The second 2 were former NSWGR units converted to BG.
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
Is it just a coincidence that the DRC bogies looked suspiciously similar to the Hitachi suburban bogies?
  NimbleJack Locomotive Fireman

To those who say the Inter City type V/Locity will NOT be used on bg, well they have already been announced for Warrnambool line
kuldalai

No they haven't. There are no plans, funding or desire to produce 'long-haul' broad-guage VLocitys. Once the current production run is finished, that's it.

It's Saturday afternoon. Normally I have much better things to do than go online and pop foam bubbles, but lockdown has me stuffed. Any good little parks around Box Hill I could drag the kids to?
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

To those who say the Inter City type V/Locity will NOT be used on bg, well they have already been announced for Warrnambool line

No they haven't. There are no plans, funding or desire to produce 'long-haul' broad-guage VLocitys. Once the current production run is finished, that's it.

It's Saturday afternoon. Normally I have much better things to do than go online and pop foam bubbles, but lockdown has me stuffed. Any good little parks around Box Hill I could drag the kids to?
NimbleJack
Elgar park, down near the freeway,plenty of room for the kids to run around, kick the footy, nt sure about swings thou. fo Elgar Rd.
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

To those who say the Inter City type V/Locity will NOT be used on bg, well they have already been announced for Warrnambool line

No they haven't. There are no plans, funding or desire to produce 'long-haul' broad-guage VLocitys. Once the current production run is finished, that's it.

It's Saturday afternoon. Normally I have much better things to do than go online and pop foam bubbles, but lockdown has me stuffed. Any good little parks around Box Hill I could drag the kids to?
NimbleJack
tis also near the minature railway, there maybe some playground equipment there.
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

I think Kuldalai is on the money here, both figuratively and literally.

There is NO need to reinvent the wheel here. Upgrading some of the current BG V Locity fleet (ie. the more recent units) into a long haul / intercity configuration is a simple enough exercise. It is going to happen.

The only new train type being looked at is a high capacity outer Metro DMU train type for VLP to use on Wyndhamvale and Melton services.  

The Sprinters were designed and built for this task, which they have performed very well for nearly 30 years. But within the next 4 -5 years they will reach their expiry date, where the cost of maintaining them cannot be justified. So this idea of a high capacity outer metro DMU makes practical and financial sense. The cost of electrification becomes prohibitive below a certain train frequency and patronage. That said, I think Wyndam Vale and Melton are financially viable already.

However, if they decide to do that I would seriously look at making them bi modal with pantographs, so they can utilise the suburban electrification where ever possible.

Some examples:

  • Overhead wires (OHW) to Packenham and then diesel (D) to Warragul.
  • OHW to Sunbury and D to Kynton.
  • OHW to Melton (which will be electrified sooner rather than later) and D to Baccus Marsh.
  • OHW to Craigieburn and D to Seymour
  • OHW to Frankston and D to Stony Point
  • OWH to Wyndham Vale (when it happens, after Melton) and D to Geelong.
  • OHW to Werribee and D to Geelong.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
To those who say the Inter City type V/Locity will NOT be used on bg, well they have already been announced for Warrnambool line

No they haven't. There are no plans, funding or desire to produce 'long-haul' broad-guage VLocitys. Once the current production run is finished, that's it.
NimbleJack

Well unless some of the current V'Locity's are going in for a serious refit to enable Inter-city services to operate with an upgraded level of comfort, there will definitely be an order placed, along the lines of the Albury SG V'Locity order for the other Inter-city destinations, despite what you may or may not have heard, read or crystal ball gazed.

Mike.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
To those who say the Inter City type V/Locity will NOT be used on bg, well they have already been announced for Warrnambool line

No they haven't. There are no plans, funding or desire to produce 'long-haul' broad-guage VLocitys. Once the current production run is finished, that's it.

Well unless some of the current V'Locity's are going in for a serious refit to enable Inter-city services to operate with an upgraded level of comfort, there will definitely be an order placed, along the lines of the Albury SG V'Locity order for the other Inter-city destinations, despite what you may or may not have heard, read or crystal ball gazed.

Mike.
The Vinelander
I wouldn't be surprise if commuter-type sets were used.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
To those who say the Inter City type V/Locity will NOT be used on bg, well they have already been announced for Warrnambool line

No they haven't. There are no plans, funding or desire to produce 'long-haul' broad-guage VLocitys. Once the current production run is finished, that's it.

Well unless some of the current V'Locity's are going in for a serious refit to enable Inter-city services to operate with an upgraded level of comfort, there will definitely be an order placed, along the lines of the Albury SG V'Locity order for the other Inter-city destinations, despite what you may or may not have heard, read or crystal ball gazed.

Mike.
I wouldn't be surprise if commuter-type sets were used.
railblogger

Albury is getting an upgraded standard of V'Locity's on the North east....in that case, why only Albury and how does that all tie in with almost life expired N sets, made up with 60+ year old Z cars on the other lines.

Mike.
  NimbleJack Locomotive Fireman

Passengers are surviving just fine on regular VLocitys to Echuca and Bairnsdale, journeys that push four hours. Once upgraded, Warrnambool and Shepparton will be sub-three-hour trips. H-sets, in all their Spartan decrepitude, already run to the latter every day with nary a peep from patrons.

Swan Hill is another kettle of fish. However, since it won't be suitable for DMUs for another decade, it'll quietly moulder away in the 'Too Hard' basket.

Albury is politically and operationally special - hence the special trains. No one involved on the operations side wants to have to deal with the complication of two distinct broad-gauge VLocity types, and outside this forum the public doesn't really care.

By the way, @trainbrain, thanks for the park recommendation! Let the kids run wild and they slept their way well into Sunday.
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Aren't they building buffet cars to be added for regular vlocity's and extending some trains in to 4 car carriages?
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

Aren't they building buffet cars to be added for regular vlocity's and extending some trains in to 4 car carriages?
simstrain
My understanding is that 3 car sets will be used. I believe this has been discussed before on Railpage. I personally favour 4 - 5 car complete sets; and that matches up with a typical N set today; 4 - 5 carriages. But the servicing facilities can only take 3 car V Locities for now. That can can be up scaled as required.
  Galron Chief Commissioner

Location: Werribee, Vic
Aren't they building buffet cars to be added for regular vlocity's and extending some trains in to 4 car carriages?
My understanding is that 3 car sets will be used. I believe this has been discussed before on Railpage. I personally favour 4 - 5 car complete sets; and that matches up with a typical N set today; 4 - 5 carriages. But the servicing facilities can only take 3 car V Locities for now. That can can be up scaled as required.
Duncs
i think your right here Duncs. Everyone with half a brain can see the benefits, but vline have their infrastructure setup to deal with v/los in 3 car sets and multiples there of, so if your going to change anything it needs to be within those constraints. Best thing you can hope for is 2 driver cars get replaced with 2 trailer cars to make a single 6 car set, but that's probably not likely.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
Passengers are surviving just fine on regular VLocitys to Echuca and Bairnsdale, journeys that push four hours. Once upgraded, Warrnambool and Shepparton will be sub-three-hour trips. H-sets, in all their Spartan decrepitude, already run to the latter every day with nary a peep from patrons.

Swan Hill is another kettle of fish. However, since it won't be suitable for DMUs for another decade, it'll quietly moulder away in the 'Too Hard' basket.

Albury is politically and operationally special - hence the special trains. No one involved on the operations side wants to have to deal with the complication of two distinct broad-gauge VLocity types, and outside this forum the public doesn't really care.

By the way, @trainbrain, thanks for the park recommendation! Let the kids run wild and they slept their way well into Sunday.
NimbleJack

I'd like to know where you're getting your speculation from Nimble Jack, but my prediction stands. In your opinion, Albury, gets an upgrade to its rail service, but Bairnsdale, only a 35km shorter journey gets standard V'Locity's.

Moreover, a reduction in service quality and amenities will replace the existing services...yeah, nar sorry that's just not happening.

But I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Mike.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
I am sure the SG velocity will be underwhelming like everything rail that comes out of Victoria. Why copy a flawed approach already for BG ?
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
Passengers are surviving just fine on regular VLocitys to Echuca and Bairnsdale, journeys that push four hours. Once upgraded, Warrnambool and Shepparton will be sub-three-hour trips. H-sets, in all their Spartan decrepitude, already run to the latter every day with nary a peep from patrons.

Swan Hill is another kettle of fish. However, since it won't be suitable for DMUs for another decade, it'll quietly moulder away in the 'Too Hard' basket.

Albury is politically and operationally special - hence the special trains. No one involved on the operations side wants to have to deal with the complication of two distinct broad-gauge VLocity types, and outside this forum the public doesn't really care.

By the way, @trainbrain, thanks for the park recommendation! Let the kids run wild and they slept their way well into Sunday.

I'd like to know where you're getting your speculation from Nimble Jack, but my prediction stands. In your opinion, Albury, gets an upgrade to its rail service, but Bairnsdale, only a 35km shorter journey gets standard V'Locity's.

Moreover, a reduction in service quality and amenities will replace the existing services...yeah, nar sorry that's just not happening.

'Operations' may just have to suck it up. Government policy determines the provision of PT, not Operations who can't cope with differing gauge rolling stock.

But I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Mike.
The Vinelander
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
To those who say the Inter City type V/Locity will NOT be used on bg, well they have already been announced for Warrnambool line

No they haven't. There are no plans, funding or desire to produce 'long-haul' broad-guage VLocitys. Once the current production run is finished, that's it.

Well unless some of the current V'Locity's are going in for a serious refit to enable Inter-city services to operate with an upgraded level of comfort, there will definitely be an order placed, along the lines of the Albury SG V'Locity order for the other Inter-city destinations, despite what you may or may not have heard, read or crystal ball gazed.

Mike.
I wouldn't be surprise if commuter-type sets were used.

Albury is getting an upgraded standard of V'Locity's on the North east....in that case, why only Albury and how does that all tie in with almost life expired N sets, made up with 60+ year old Z cars on the other lines.

Mike.
The Vinelander
Albury is an isolated service which requires a dedicated fleet.
  Riain Locomotive Fireman

Aren't they building buffet cars to be added for regular vlocity's and extending some trains in to 4 car carriages?
My understanding is that 3 car sets will be used. I believe this has been discussed before on Railpage. I personally favour 4 - 5 car complete sets; and that matches up with a typical N set today; 4 - 5 carriages. But the servicing facilities can only take 3 car V Locities for now. That can can be up scaled as required.
Duncs

How hard is it to change the maintenance infrastructure to handle 4 car carriages? 4 car carriages would be an easy win to boost capacity on the overcrowded Geelong line.

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