Geelong high speed rail and electrification

 
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
There was movement at the station for the word had passed around

https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/geelong-fast-rail-onsite-investigations-progressing

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  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
What a total waste of money. The best express time is currently 59 minutes. Stopping trains are 65 to 70 minutes. All this mucking about and expense to save a maximum of 20 minutes. Big deal.
Put fast rail where it saves significant time, and that ain't Geelong.

It could even be a better idea to concentrate money and effort on getting more freight onto Victorian steels and off the bitumen.
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

There was movement at the station for the word had passed around

https://www.railpage.com.au/news/s/geelong-fast-rail-onsite-investigations-progressing
bevans
yawn...................
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
What a total waste of money. The best express time is currently 59 minutes. Stopping trains are 65 to 70 minutes. All this mucking about and expense to save a maximum of 20 minutes. Big deal.
Put fast rail where it saves significant time, and that ain't Geelong.

It could even be a better idea to concentrate money and effort on getting more freight onto Victorian steels and off the bitumen.
Valvegear
Freight Rail, definitely!
More likely, however, the money saved would be spent on the Geelong Football ground!
  Riain Locomotive Fireman

What a total waste of money. The best express time is currently 59 minutes. Stopping trains are 65 to 70 minutes. All this mucking about and expense to save a maximum of 20 minutes. Big deal.
Put fast rail where it saves significant time, and that ain't Geelong.

It could even be a better idea to concentrate money and effort on getting more freight onto Victorian steels and off the bitumen.
Valvegear

Which service runs 59 minutes in the morning? Looking at the timetable I can find one that is 60 minutes from Geelong itself after a 2 minute stop but everything else is 61-80 minutes from Geelong and even longer if you're leaving from Sth Geelong or points further west.

As a Geelong commuter I can assure you that having the option of many ~50 minute services will be appreciated, I look forward to regaining 2.5 hours a week,especially in winter when I waste precious daylight sitting on a slow train serving the western suburbs.
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

What a total waste of money. The best express time is currently 59 minutes. Stopping trains are 65 to 70 minutes. All this mucking about and expense to save a maximum of 20 minutes. Big deal.
Put fast rail where it saves significant time, and that ain't Geelong.

It could even be a better idea to concentrate money and effort on getting more freight onto Victorian steels and off the bitumen.

Which service runs 59 minutes in the morning? Looking at the timetable I can find one that is 60 minutes from Geelong itself after a 2 minute stop but everything else is 61-80 minutes from Geelong and even longer if you're leaving from Sth Geelong or points further west.

As a Geelong commuter I can assure you that having the option of many ~50 minute services will be appreciated, I look forward to regaining 2.5 hours a week,especially in winter when I waste precious daylight sitting on a slow train serving the western suburbs.
Riain
then enjoy the scenery .............................
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
What a total waste of money. The best express time is currently 59 minutes. Stopping trains are 65 to 70 minutes. All this mucking about and expense to save a maximum of 20 minutes. Big deal.
Put fast rail where it saves significant time, and that ain't Geelong.

It could even be a better idea to concentrate money and effort on getting more freight onto Victorian steels and off the bitumen.

Which service runs 59 minutes in the morning? Looking at the timetable I can find one that is 60 minutes from Geelong itself after a 2 minute stop but everything else is 61-80 minutes from Geelong and even longer if you're leaving from Sth Geelong or points further west.

As a Geelong commuter I can assure you that having the option of many ~50 minute services will be appreciated, I look forward to regaining 2.5 hours a week,especially in winter when I waste precious daylight sitting on a slow train serving the western suburbs.
Riain

Maybe it's time to consider V/Line commuters from Gippsland who spend the current Geelong to Melbourne running time between Dandenong and Southern Cross station .

Geelong's running times, although slowed and going forward I wonder how much more they are going to be slowed, but I digress...compared with other V/Line services, Geelong's times really aren't that bad.

Mike.
  Riain Locomotive Fireman

What a total waste of money. The best express time is currently 59 minutes. Stopping trains are 65 to 70 minutes. All this mucking about and expense to save a maximum of 20 minutes. Big deal.
Put fast rail where it saves significant time, and that ain't Geelong.

It could even be a better idea to concentrate money and effort on getting more freight onto Victorian steels and off the bitumen.

Which service runs 59 minutes in the morning? Looking at the timetable I can find one that is 60 minutes from Geelong itself after a 2 minute stop but everything else is 61-80 minutes from Geelong and even longer if you're leaving from Sth Geelong or points further west.

As a Geelong commuter I can assure you that having the option of many ~50 minute services will be appreciated, I look forward to regaining 2.5 hours a week,especially in winter when I waste precious daylight sitting on a slow train serving the western suburbs.
then enjoy the scenery .............................
trainbrain

I particularly love looking at the Werribee tip twice a day year in and year out.
  jakar Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
As a Geelong commuter I can assure you that having the option of many ~50 minute services will be appreciated, I look forward to regaining 2.5 hours a week,especially in winter when I waste precious daylight sitting on a slow train serving the western suburbs.
Riain
Its a given that everyone wants a faster service for themselves, but crikey, if you think Geelong services are slow go and spend a day or three traveling on other lines particularly to Seymour and Gippsland where trains regularly travel slower than cars and bicycles on adjacent suburban backstreets! It will quickly make you appreciate what you've already got and understand why a lot of us see any Geelong 'fast rail' projects as a waste of money.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
It's time the remainder of Victoria was considered.
There are other locations in Victoria.
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

I particularly love looking at the Werribee tip twice a day year in and year out.
Riain

Find a seat on the other side of the train
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Which service runs 59 minutes in the morning?
"Riaian"

Southern Cross dep 0746
Footscray                0754u
Geelong arr             0845

When I went to school 0746 to 0845 was 59 minutes.
  Tony M. Locomotive Driver

It's time the remainder of Victoria was considered.
There are other locations in Victoria.
YM-Mundrabilla
Geelong is in a bit of an odd spot as by most measures it's basically part of Melbourne - it's closer to the CBD than some eastern suburbs, obviously. The ABC doesn't even have a local outpost, whereas country towns half the size have local ABC radio and TV.

Politically I suspect neither side of politics wants Geelong and Melbourne to officially merge into a super city that would effectively drown out the rest of the state. Having Geelong as "regional" by ensuring the development of both cities doesn't link up keeps up the pretense that there's more to Victoria than Melbourne, a couple of outer regional outposts, and some very pretty countryside.

Being so close to Melbourne while not actually being Melbourne gives Geelong a few advantages as far as development goes, in that the government can approve thousands of homes out at Armstrong Creek and down the coast without adding to Melbourne's suburban sprawl... only many of those new residents will most likely be working in Melbourne, which makes it a win-win for the capital city economically, as they get the growing population without having to put in all the infrastructure.

Getting those commuters from Geelong to Melbourne quickly only sweetens the deal, which is (partly) why this fairly silly fast rail proposal keeps getting up. It might be only an hour if you're lucky from Southern Cross to the Geelong CBD, but most of the growth in passengers is coming from further out - it's closer to 80 minutes from Waurn Ponds, so knocking 15-20 minutes off the trip would definitely make it more attractive to those passengers (especially if you want to stop them driving to South Geelong and getting on there).
  L1150 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Pakenham Vic.
In the late 1950s Before many on Railpage were even born, I was just a little tacker but already mad on trains, I seem to rember there was an express train to  Geelong called "The Flier" It was hauled by an R class steam loco. I think its time for the run was 56 minutes or thereabouts ( Historian may be able to confirm). Wow we have sure come a long way in the intervening 60+ years so our fastest now is slower than in the middle of the last centuary!
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

Back in 2002 I recall taking express trains that were direct SCS to Geelong, with no stopping at all. The travel time was only 55 minutes.
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

The 1964 WTT shows 55 minutes down (8:25 dep, 9:20 arr). On the up it was a little slower, 5:12-6:10. Non-stop in both directions.
  Lockie91 Assistant Commissioner

It's time the remainder of Victoria was considered.
There are other locations in Victoria.
Geelong is in a bit of an odd spot as by most measures it's basically part of Melbourne - it's closer to the CBD than some eastern suburbs, obviously. The ABC doesn't even have a local outpost, whereas country towns half the size have local ABC radio and TV.

Politically I suspect neither side of politics wants Geelong and Melbourne to officially merge into a super city that would effectively drown out the rest of the state. Having Geelong as "regional" by ensuring the development of both cities doesn't link up keeps up the pretense that there's more to Victoria than Melbourne, a couple of outer regional outposts, and some very pretty countryside.

Being so close to Melbourne while not actually being Melbourne gives Geelong a few advantages as far as development goes, in that the government can approve thousands of homes out at Armstrong Creek and down the coast without adding to Melbourne's suburban sprawl... only many of those new residents will most likely be working in Melbourne, which makes it a win-win for the capital city economically, as they get the growing population without having to put in all the infrastructure.

Getting those commuters from Geelong to Melbourne quickly only sweetens the deal, which is (partly) why this fairly silly fast rail proposal keeps getting up. It might be only an hour if you're lucky from Southern Cross to the Geelong CBD, but most of the growth in passengers is coming from further out - it's closer to 80 minutes from Waurn Ponds, so knocking 15-20 minutes off the trip would definitely make it more attractive to those passengers (especially if you want to stop them driving to South Geelong and getting on there).
Tony M.
Excellent post and you've hit the dog spike on the head.

The idea of putting and extra 100,000 people in Geelong is well in motion. The government needs to deliver a high capacity link or risk Geelong and its suburbs turning into a regional ghetto. More so than parts of it are now.

Half the money could be spend on improved bus links, maybe a light rail link to create jobs in Geelong for the people that live out there.

Even with a fast rail link, still cant have 400,000 people coming to Melbourne in the peak.

As much as I detest this project, it's going to happen.

Lockie
  route14 Chief Commissioner

A new station at Fishermen's Bend is another benefit of the Geelong high speed rail, I believe.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line

Even with a fast rail link, still cant have 400,000 people coming to Melbourne in the peak.

As much as I detest this project, it's going to happen.

Lockie
Lockie91

Where are the 400,000 people Question

The population of Greater Geelong, including almost all of Bellarine peninsula:

https://forecast.id.com.au/geelong#:~=The%20City%20of%20Greater%20Geelong%20population%20forecast%20for%202021%20is,grow%20to%20393%2C216%20by%202041.

Around 270,000 if CBF with the link.

Moreover it's highly unlikely the whole city and suburbs is going to converge on the freeway or local station to travel to Melbourne.

The original RFR timetable of 2006 was 45 Mins for the flagship service, and with 4 mins added across all RFR lines before implementation went to 49 mins, not bad considering it mixed with sparks through Yarraville and Spotswood etc..

The Princes Fwy must be a nightmare car park these days and would definitely exceed 90 mins for the journey, making 1 hour on the train far preferable.

Mike.
  Riain Locomotive Fireman

Which service runs 59 minutes in the morning?

Southern Cross dep 0746
Footscray                0754u
Geelong arr             0845

When I went to school 0746 to 0845 was 59 minutes.
Valvegear

Fair enough, but I and thousands of others start work long before 9am.
  Riain Locomotive Fireman

It's time the remainder of Victoria was considered.
There are other locations in Victoria.
Geelong is in a bit of an odd spot as by most measures it's basically part of Melbourne - it's closer to the CBD than some eastern suburbs, obviously. The ABC doesn't even have a local outpost, whereas country towns half the size have local ABC radio and TV.

Politically I suspect neither side of politics wants Geelong and Melbourne to officially merge into a super city that would effectively drown out the rest of the state. Having Geelong as "regional" by ensuring the development of both cities doesn't link up keeps up the pretense that there's more to Victoria than Melbourne, a couple of outer regional outposts, and some very pretty countryside.

Being so close to Melbourne while not actually being Melbourne gives Geelong a few advantages as far as development goes, in that the government can approve thousands of homes out at Armstrong Creek and down the coast without adding to Melbourne's suburban sprawl... only many of those new residents will most likely be working in Melbourne, which makes it a win-win for the capital city economically, as they get the growing population without having to put in all the infrastructure.

Getting those commuters from Geelong to Melbourne quickly only sweetens the deal, which is (partly) why this fairly silly fast rail proposal keeps getting up. It might be only an hour if you're lucky from Southern Cross to the Geelong CBD, but most of the growth in passengers is coming from further out - it's closer to 80 minutes from Waurn Ponds, so knocking 15-20 minutes off the trip would definitely make it more attractive to those passengers (especially if you want to stop them driving to South Geelong and getting on there).
Tony M.

Not only is Geelong close but it's already about the size of Ballarat, Bendigo and Eastern RRL catchment area in terms of population. It's the only Tier 1 Local Government Area outside of Melbourne, so it shouldn't be surprising that it gets more attention than the other 3 RRL lines.
  Riain Locomotive Fireman

I particularly love looking at the Werribee tip twice a day year in and year out.

Find a seat on the other side of the train
duttonbay

Even the You Yangs lose their allure after seeing them in the middle distance 200 times.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Even the You Yangs lose their allure after seeing them in the middle distance 200 times.
"Raian"
I hate to tell you, but the view of the You Yangs is going to be there no matter how fast the train's going.
  Riain Locomotive Fireman

It's time the remainder of Victoria was considered.
There are other locations in Victoria.
YM-Mundrabilla

Aren't all regional rail lines getting upgraded? That's what the Big Build website is spruiking.

The Ballarat line is getting 17km of duplicated track, that seems like a lot.
  8502 Chief Train Controller

A new station at Fishermen's Bend is another benefit of the Geelong high speed rail, I believe.
route14

Would that assume the trains would need to use MM2?

I don't mind that at all.  I don't live in Geelong but the idea of going directly into the city and not via the current route (which is much Longer would allow people a faster transit time) does seem more appealing.

Going the longer way around into Melbourne I don't think makes the journey poor for GeelongMelbourne and vv commuters, it does only favour the metro stations in the west which should be metro trains.

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