Geelong high speed rail and electrification

 
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
I particularly love looking at the Werribee tip twice a day year in and year out.

Find a seat on the other side of the train
duttonbay

Even the You Yangs lose their allure after seeing them in the middle distance 200 times.
"Riain"


200 times hey...hmm, for some perspective compare travelling through Melton around 12,000 times, often stopping there and the neanderthal behaviour en-route of some of the localsjust to add some interest to the journey.

Mike.

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  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
A new station at Fishermen's Bend is another benefit of the Geelong high speed rail, I believe.

Would that assume the trains would need to use MM2?

I don't mind that at all.  I don't live in Geelong but the idea of going directly into the city and not via the current route (which is much Longer would allow people a faster transit time) does seem more appealing.

Going the longer way around into Melbourne I don't think makes the journey poor for GeelongMelbourne and vv commuters, it does only favour the metro stations in the west which should be metro trains.
8502
Geelong > Southern Cross via MM2 would be the fastest route for Geelong line trains you would think (assuming that MM2 gets built that is)

Pax who want to go the long way around to get to Sunshine / Footscray or other stations on the current route would change at Werribee and take the by then hopefully sparked RRL to complete their journey.

Win-win (if it happens)
  8502 Chief Train Controller

Geelong > Southern Cross via MM2 would be the fastest route for Geelong line trains you would think (assuming that MM2 gets built that is)

Pax who want to go the long way around to get to Sunshine / Footscray or other stations on the current route would change at Werribee and take the by then hopefully sparked RRL to complete their journey.

Win-win (if it happens)
BrentonGolding

Agree totally.

Why would you want to run via the RRL unless you were going to Melbourne Airport in the future or connecting with a service to the north west (and hopefully the North East) at Sunshine.

If the lines had overhead and they I assume will with fast rail when why not run 6 each way per hour with 2 of those running via Sunshine?
  Dangersdan707 Chief Commissioner

Location: On a Thing with Internet
A new station at Fishermen's Bend is another benefit of the Geelong high speed rail, I believe.

Would that assume the trains would need to use MM2?

I don't mind that at all.  I don't live in Geelong but the idea of going directly into the city and not via the current route (which is much Longer would allow people a faster transit time) does seem more appealing.

Going the longer way around into Melbourne I don't think makes the journey poor for GeelongMelbourne and vv commuters, it does only favour the metro stations in the west which should be metro trains.
Geelong > Southern Cross via MM2 would be the fastest route for Geelong line trains you would think (assuming that MM2 gets built that is)

Pax who want to go the long way around to get to Sunshine / Footscray or other stations on the current route would change at Werribee and take the by then hopefully sparked RRL to complete their journey.

Win-win (if it happens)
BrentonGolding
I'll say I'm a bit iffy about the plan to Run Geelong trains Via MM2. The 30yr plan that came out recently suggests running Melbourne- Waurn Ponds services Via MM2 using HCMTs, something I'm not the biggest fan of and is a bit short sited considering the "High Speed" plan that the Feds and State government are push entails running V/locities flat out at 200km/h. The obvious thing for Running via MM2 that'd be needed is either Bi-modal trains as the next generation of regional trains, or the electrification of the Geelong line if your going to use HCMTs (or some variant of them).

The other question that going via MM2 raises is are Geelong services just going to become glorified long distance express services through running to Mernda or Wollert, or will Spencers Street get a pair of underground terminating platforms for Geelong and Bubble trains, alla New York's recent addition to Grand Central? Shall be interesting to see.
  route14 Chief Commissioner

Nothing wrong with through-routing.  The frequencies are similar.
  Tony M. Locomotive Driver


Even with a fast rail link, still cant have 400,000 people coming to Melbourne in the peak.

As much as I detest this project, it's going to happen.

Lockie
Where are the 400,000 people Question

The population of Greater Geelong, including almost all of Bellarine peninsula:

https://forecast.id.com.au/geelong#:~=The%20City%20of%20Greater%20Geelong%20population%20forecast%20for%202021%20is,grow%20to%20393%2C216%20by%202041.

Around 270,000 if CBF with the link.

Moreover it's highly unlikely the whole city and suburbs is going to converge on the freeway or local station to travel to Melbourne.

The original RFR timetable of 2006 was 45 Mins for the flagship service, and with 4 mins added across all RFR lines before implementation went to 49 mins, not bad considering it mixed with sparks through Yarraville and Spotswood etc..

The Princes Fwy must be a nightmare car park these days and would definitely exceed 90 mins for the journey, making 1 hour on the train far preferable.

Mike.
The Vinelander

It is over 90 minutes by car from central Geelong into the CBD, which makes going from central Geelong to the CBD by train attractive. But once you're either a): going somewhere outside the CBD or b): leaving from anywhere that's 10 minutes or more from central Geelong, then the train as it currently stands looks a lot less attractive.

The thing that's important to realise is that pretty much all the major development in Geelong is happening on the other side from Melbourne. That makes the Southern Cross - Geelong travel time increasingly misleading, as growing numbers of Geelong residents live a good 20 minutes or more from that station.
  Djebel Junior Train Controller

It is over 90 minutes by car from central Geelong into the CBD, which makes going from central Geelong to the CBD by train attractive. But once you're either a): going somewhere outside the CBD or b): leaving from anywhere that's 10 minutes or more from central Geelong, then the train as it currently stands looks a lot less attractive.

The thing that's important to realise is that pretty much all the major development in Geelong is happening on the other side from Melbourne. That makes the Southern Cross - Geelong travel time increasingly misleading, as growing numbers of Geelong residents live a good 20 minutes or more from that station.
Tony M.
Depends also when you are traveling; and of course, traffic.  Off-peak (which is all I ever do) it's under 90 minutes to get from the eastern suburbs of Melbourne (where I live) to visit various friends and relatives in the Greater Geelong area.  I have done 95 minutes all the way to/from Torquay on occasion, but that trip's usually a bit longer.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

It's time the remainder of Victoria was considered.
There are other locations in Victoria.

Aren't all regional rail lines getting upgraded? That's what the Big Build website is spruiking.

The Ballarat line is getting 17km of duplicated track, that seems like a lot.
Riain
It is not getting it, it has already GOT it.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
It's time the remainder of Victoria was considered.
There are other locations in Victoria.

Aren't all regional rail lines getting upgraded? That's what the Big Build website is spruiking.

The Ballarat line is getting 17km of duplicated track, that seems like a lot.
It is not getting it, it has already GOT it.
kuldalai

COVID-19 lockdowns notwithstanding, some posters obviously don't get out much. Smile

M.
  Riain Locomotive Fireman

It's time the remainder of Victoria was considered.
There are other locations in Victoria.

Aren't all regional rail lines getting upgraded? That's what the Big Build website is spruiking.

The Ballarat line is getting 17km of duplicated track, that seems like a lot.
It is not getting it, it has already GOT it.

COVID-19 lockdowns notwithstanding, some posters obviously don't get out much. Smile

M.
The Vinelander

I'm not a railfan, I'm a commuter with an interest in machines and infrastructure, I've never caught the train to Ballarat and am not likely too any time soon. However the point I was trying to make is that all Regional lines are getting a slice of the money/development pie not just Geelong, and apparently Ballarat's big, multi-year improvements have already been delivered.

What changes were made to the timetable as a result of the improvements on this line? Were Ballarat services made faster or slower?
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line

I'm not a railfan, I'm a commuter with an interest in machines and infrastructure, I've never caught the train to Ballarat and am not likely too any time soon. However the point I was trying to make is that all Regional lines are getting a slice of the money/development pie not just Geelong, and apparently Ballarat's big, multi-year improvements have already been delivered.

What changes were made to the timetable as a result of the improvements on this line? Were Ballarat services made faster or slower?
Riain

Ballarat services were slowed post the $500 million 'upgrade' as we lost all our significant express services and some of the new infrastructure brought in 80 km/h permanent speed limits, reduced from 110, 130 and 150 Km/h respectively, depending on where you wish me to elaborate.

The addition of a new station with the real prospect of more, combined with additional stops added to the peak timetable slows things down further and the additional 80Km/h speed restriction for around 7km before Ballarat, reduced from 160 km/h and the timetable having been further padded out has only made the perception of slowness worse.

Since 2005 the FASTEST Ballarat service and BEFORE the Regional Rail Link was introduced has gone from 64 mins to around 75 mins. One wonders, going forward how much slower the overall timetable will become before some intelligence and creative thinking is procured to add some sense to this non-sensical, farcical situation.

Mike.
  Carnot Minister for Railways


I'm not a railfan, I'm a commuter with an interest in machines and infrastructure, I've never caught the train to Ballarat and am not likely too any time soon. However the point I was trying to make is that all Regional lines are getting a slice of the money/development pie not just Geelong, and apparently Ballarat's big, multi-year improvements have already been delivered.

What changes were made to the timetable as a result of the improvements on this line? Were Ballarat services made faster or slower?
Ballarat services were slowed post the $500 million 'upgrade' as we lost all our significant express services and some of the new infrastructure brought in 80 km/h permanent speed limits, reduced from 110, 130 and 150 Km/h respectively, depending on where you wish me to elaborate.

The addition of a new station with the real prospect of more, combined with additional stops added to the peak timetable slows things down further and the additional 80Km/h speed restriction for around 7km before Ballarat, reduced from 160 km/h and the timetable having been further padded out has only made the perception of slowness worse.

Since 2005 the FASTEST Ballarat service and BEFORE the Regional Rail Link was introduced has gone from 64 mins to around 75 mins. One wonders, going forward how much slower the overall timetable will become before some intelligence and creative thinking is procured to add some sense to this non-sensical, farcical situation.

Mike.
The Vinelander
The same thing has happened on the Bendigo line, mainly due to Sunbury sparking and timetable padding, along with extra stops on flagship 'express' services.

As for HCMTs on the Geetroit line - I genuinely think they should be a 25 kV AC (or dual voltage) and 160 km/h variant.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line

I'm not a railfan, I'm a commuter with an interest in machines and infrastructure, I've never caught the train to Ballarat and am not likely too any time soon. However the point I was trying to make is that all Regional lines are getting a slice of the money/development pie not just Geelong, and apparently Ballarat's big, multi-year improvements have already been delivered.

What changes were made to the timetable as a result of the improvements on this line? Were Ballarat services made faster or slower?
Ballarat services were slowed post the $500 million 'upgrade' as we lost all our significant express services and some of the new infrastructure brought in 80 km/h permanent speed limits, reduced from 110, 130 and 150 Km/h respectively, depending on where you wish me to elaborate.

The addition of a new station with the real prospect of more, combined with additional stops added to the peak timetable slows things down further and the additional 80Km/h speed restriction for around 7km before Ballarat, reduced from 160 km/h and the timetable having been further padded out has only made the perception of slowness worse.

Since 2005 the FASTEST Ballarat service and BEFORE the Regional Rail Link was introduced has gone from 64 mins to around 75 mins. One wonders, going forward how much slower the overall timetable will become before some intelligence and creative thinking is procured to add some sense to this non-sensical, farcical situation.

Mike.The same thing has happened on the Bendigo line, mainly due to Sunbury sparking and timetable padding, along with extra stops on flagship 'express' services.

As for HCMTs on the Geetroit line - I genuinely think they should be a 25 kV AC (or dual voltage) and 160 km/h variant.
Carnot

Since 2005 the FASTEST Ballarat service and BEFORE the Regional Rail Link was introduced has gone from 64 mins to around 75 mins. One wonders, going forward how much slower the overall timetable will become before some intelligence and creative thinking is procured to add some sense to this non-sensical, farcical situation.
Mike.
The Vinelander
The same thing has happened on the Bendigo line, mainly due to Sunbury sparking and timetable padding, along with extra stops on flagship 'express' services.
As for HCMTs on the Geetroit line - I genuinely think they should be a 25 kV AC (or dual voltage) and 160 km/h variant.
"Carnot"


Sorry to get right off track, but last Saturday week I travelled back to Ballan by V/Line on the 10:15 bus from Mildura to Swan Hill etc. 5 on at Swan Hill due to Melbourne being in lockdown and me, alone comfortably ensconsed in Car F, the former AZ car, for the whole journey but I digress.

We lost some time as we progressed and by Kyneton I was starting to get a little panicky about my 20 min Footscray connection and I got on to the PTV journey planner to work out if we would make Sunbury before a spark that by then could possibly leave before us and that would sabotage my connection.
Approaching Woodend, we didn't appear to be slowing and we went straight through at line speed which I was amazed about and I was beginning to think the driver was trying to make up time by not stopping at stations due to there only being a handful of pax on the train etc

1 off at Gisborne and as we approached Sunbury it was obvious we were going to follow the spark due to us slowing down the bank as it was about line ball if we would get there without delaying the spark. At this point, the conductor came through to advise there were kids playing on the track somewhere between Jacksons Creek and the platform hence why we stopped.
We got going after about 4 mins and though we were slow through Diggers Rest, non-stop, we picked up soon after and reached line speed again.

Meanwhile I was back on the PTV app and I learned if I bailed out at Watergardens, I could forget the Footscray connection and catch a bus to Caroline Springs and make the Ballarat with around 10 mins to spare. That's great I thought as I'd already been travelling for around 8 hours and by then had had enough of V/Line for one day. Smile

But getting back to the conductor and also learning there was an UP Bendigo right on our tail, less than 10 mins behind us. I said to the conductor, the driver went express through Woodend, I guess he/she wanted to pick up time. No says the conductor, since the revised August t/t, the UP Swan Hill sometimes skips Woodend to accelerate the journey for the longer distance pax.

I nearly laughed at the irony.

The new August timetable gives the 10:15 bus from Mildura a full HOUR connection at Swan Hill. Long enough for a meal and a few drinks at the RSL across the road. No one has been able to explain why an hour is needed, but I've made several enquiries.

The journey from Swan Hill to Bendigo is almost glacial with all the speed restrictions due to unprotected crossings.

Actually, sorry to go completely off topic, but it was an opportunity to vent. Mad

The bus had 2 on at Mildura, 5 on the train at Swan Hill and conductor advised at Watergardens there would be 3 off when it arrived at SCS.

Mike.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

It's time the remainder of Victoria was considered.
There are other locations in Victoria.

Aren't all regional rail lines getting upgraded? That's what the Big Build website is spruiking.

The Ballarat line is getting 17km of duplicated track, that seems like a lot.
It is not getting it, it has already GOT it.

COVID-19 lockdowns notwithstanding, some posters obviously don't get out much. Smile

M.

I'm not a railfan, I'm a commuter with an interest in machines and infrastructure, I've never caught the train to Ballarat and am not likely too any time soon. However the point I was trying to make is that all Regional lines are getting a slice of the money/development pie not just Geelong, and apparently Ballarat's big, multi-year improvements have already been delivered.

What changes were made to the timetable as a result of the improvements on this line? Were Ballarat services made faster or slower?
Riain
As others pointed out generally things slowed down  BUT the pluses in the NEW tt are :

- Weekday Wendouree frequencies now every 40 minutes  Evenings ditto  Weekends - Hourly  Weekday Peaks - every 20 mins
- Weekdays former hourly off peak Bacchus Marsh shorts morphed into a Melton Off Peak 40 minute frequency.
Weekdays Off Peak this gives  all stations to Melton trains every 20 mins and to The Marsh, Ballan, Ballarat and Wendouree every 40 mins.
- Weekday Peaks supplementary -  Melton and Bacchus Marsh  shorts.
- Ararat got a fifth Down Weekday service initially at 1639, altered from July 2021 to a 1658 Dn Ararat.
Full tt details here  
https://www.vline.com.au/getattachment/ac223ca1-9874-43f2-947c-aaced11c44e7/Ballarat-Timetable
  Riain Locomotive Fireman

It's time the remainder of Victoria was considered.
There are other locations in Victoria.

Aren't all regional rail lines getting upgraded? That's what the Big Build website is spruiking.

The Ballarat line is getting 17km of duplicated track, that seems like a lot.
It is not getting it, it has already GOT it.

COVID-19 lockdowns notwithstanding, some posters obviously don't get out much. Smile

M.

I'm not a railfan, I'm a commuter with an interest in machines and infrastructure, I've never caught the train to Ballarat and am not likely too any time soon. However the point I was trying to make is that all Regional lines are getting a slice of the money/development pie not just Geelong, and apparently Ballarat's big, multi-year improvements have already been delivered.

What changes were made to the timetable as a result of the improvements on this line? Were Ballarat services made faster or slower?
As others pointed out generally things slowed down  BUT the pluses in the NEW tt are :

- Weekday Wendouree frequencies now every 40 minutes  Evenings ditto  Weekends - Hourly  Weekday Peaks - every 20 mins
- Weekdays former hourly off peak Bacchus Marsh shorts morphed into a Melton Off Peak 40 minute frequency.
Weekdays Off Peak this gives  all stations to Melton trains every 20 mins and to The Marsh, Ballan, Ballarat and Wendouree every 40 mins.
- Weekday Peaks supplementary -  Melton and Bacchus Marsh  shorts.
- Ararat got a fifth Down Weekday service initially at 1639, altered from July 2021 to a 1658 Dn Ararat.
Full tt details here  
https://www.vline.com.au/getattachment/ac223ca1-9874-43f2-947c-aaced11c44e7/Ballarat-Timetable
kuldalai

So is there a plan on the horizon for the Ballarat line now that this phase is finished? Is shorter journey times seen as a priority on the Ballarat line?
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
"Riain"

So is there a plan on the horizon for the Ballarat line now that this phase is finished? Is shorter journey times seen as a priority on the Ballarat line?[/quote]

As the timetable has been progressively slowed over the past 15 years, the answer would have to be no.

M.
  Djebel Junior Train Controller

Is shorter journey times seen as a priority on the Ballarat line?
Riain
Only by irrelevant gunzels on RP.  And the even less important passengers Rolling Eyes.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Total reliability is more important than shaving a minute or two here and there to please those to whom every second counts towards their ideological fantasies and their blood pressure. This, of course, includes the fanatics driving high(er) speed Geelong who believe that they can get from Geelong to Spencer Street in total comfort faster than the rest of us can get from Frankston in a Metro pig pen.

Why some seek fantasyland when reasonable reliable reality can be had for a fraction of the cost albeit with the sacrifice of a theoretical few minutes in time and great potential loss of service reliability.

How many people in Victoria who must be somewhere at a given time have to plan on at least one earlier Vline or Metro service than necessary to be reasonably assured of making that appointment.

Reliability is far more important than lightning speed. This applies to both passenger in all its forms and freight as well.
  BaysideManny Junior Train Controller

Total reliability is more important than shaving a minute or two here and there to please those to whom every second counts towards their ideological fantasies and their blood pressure. This, of course, includes the fanatics driving high(er) speed Geelong who believe that they can get from Geelong to Spencer Street in total comfort faster than the rest of us can get from Frankston in a Metro pig pen.

Why some seek fantasyland when reasonable reliable reality can be had for a fraction of the cost albeit with the sacrifice of a theoretical few minutes in time and great potential loss of service reliability.

How many people in Victoria who must be somewhere at a given time have to plan on at least one earlier Vline or Metro service than necessary to be reasonably assured of making that appointment.

Reliability is far more important than lightning speed. This applies to both passenger in all its forms and freight as well.
YM-Mundrabilla
Especially when we are talking about a distance of just 80 kms.


Mannie
  Riain Locomotive Fireman

Total reliability is more important than shaving a minute or two here and there to please those to whom every second counts towards their ideological fantasies and their blood pressure. This, of course, includes the fanatics driving high(er) speed Geelong who believe that they can get from Geelong to Spencer Street in total comfort faster than the rest of us can get from Frankston in a Metro pig pen.

Why some seek fantasyland when reasonable reliable reality can be had for a fraction of the cost albeit with the sacrifice of a theoretical few minutes in time and great potential loss of service reliability.

How many people in Victoria who must be somewhere at a given time have to plan on at least one earlier Vline or Metro service than necessary to be reasonably assured of making that appointment.

Reliability is far more important than lightning speed. This applies to both passenger in all its forms and freight as well.
YM-Mundrabilla

We're not talking about a minute or two, we're talking ~15 minutes. It's the difference between travelling on a vlo and a loco train. This might not seem like much for someone wanting to make the odd appointment, but for a commuter this is half an hour a day, 2 1/2 hours a week. That's time for a sleep in, and getting home during the daylight in winter.

I'm all for reliability, the SthG-WP duplication and WP stabling takes care of that, the faster Geelong route isn't detracting from reliability.

Perhaps the people in Frankston should start shouting for faster services.
  John.Z Assistant Commissioner


We're not talking about a minute or two, we're talking ~15 minutes. It's the difference between travelling on a vlo and a loco train. This might not seem like much for someone wanting to make the odd appointment, but for a commuter this is half an hour a day, 2 1/2 hours a week. That's time for a sleep in, and getting home during the daylight in winter.

I'm all for reliability, the SthG-WP duplication and WP stabling takes care of that, the faster Geelong route isn't detracting from reliability.

Perhaps the people in Frankston should start shouting for faster services.
Riain
A SE fast corridor should be on the agenda.

Link Frankston to Dandenong, then run express trains from Dandenong to the City on a new track pair (taking trains originating from Frankston/Hastings, Pakenham/Warragul and VLine/Freight).

Between Caulfield and Dandenong, two new tracks could fit within the exisitng skyrail. The corridor width is 20m, way more than enough room. Have to rebuild all the stations to side platforms, which should've been done from the start as active provision (as opposed to passive provision). Rebuild Oakleigh and Huntingdale to allow for Warrigal Rd and North Rd overpasses to be demolished.

From Caulfield to the city, well you just gotta extend the metro tunnel and leave the surface tracks for the express pair.

Caulfield gets an elevated station with 6 platforms and cross platform interchange with spanish platforms for the metro tunnel in the middle. Leave the historic building and repurpose/keep them as toilets and ticket offices.
  Tony M. Locomotive Driver

Link Frankston to Dandenong, then run express trains from Dandenong to the City on a new track pair (taking trains originating from Frankston/Hastings, Pakenham/Warragul and VLine/Freight).

Between Caulfield and Dandenong, two new tracks could fit within the exisitng skyrail. The corridor width is 20m, way more than enough room. Have to rebuild all the stations to side platforms, which should've been done from the start as active provision (as opposed to passive provision). Rebuild Oakleigh and Huntingdale to allow for Warrigal Rd and North Rd overpasses to be demolished.

From Caulfield to the city, well you just gotta extend the metro tunnel and leave the surface tracks for the express pair.

Caulfield gets an elevated station with 6 platforms and cross platform interchange with spanish platforms for the metro tunnel in the middle. Leave the historic building and repurpose/keep them as toilets and ticket offices.
John.Z

It's all about future development, not improving already existing services, which is why Geelong is getting fast rail and Frankston isn't.

Fast rail to Geelong is really about improving travel times to the new growth suburbs out the back of Geelong. Then when / if MM2 gets built, Geelong gets a free ride on a development designed to provide public transport to billions of dollars of new property and housing at Fisherman's Bend - again, more future development.

The fact that fast rail to Geelong is currently just duplicating a stretch of track between Laverton and Newport where there's already a wide existing reserve rather than demolishing multiple stations, overpasses and extending the Metro tunnel might also have something to do with it.
  Riain Locomotive Fireman

Link Frankston to Dandenong, then run express trains from Dandenong to the City on a new track pair (taking trains originating from Frankston/Hastings, Pakenham/Warragul and VLine/Freight).

Between Caulfield and Dandenong, two new tracks could fit within the exisitng skyrail. The corridor width is 20m, way more than enough room. Have to rebuild all the stations to side platforms, which should've been done from the start as active provision (as opposed to passive provision). Rebuild Oakleigh and Huntingdale to allow for Warrigal Rd and North Rd overpasses to be demolished.

From Caulfield to the city, well you just gotta extend the metro tunnel and leave the surface tracks for the express pair.

Caulfield gets an elevated station with 6 platforms and cross platform interchange with spanish platforms for the metro tunnel in the middle. Leave the historic building and repurpose/keep them as toilets and ticket offices.

It's all about future development, not improving already existing services, which is why Geelong is getting fast rail and Frankston isn't.

Fast rail to Geelong is really about improving travel times to the new growth suburbs out the back of Geelong. Then when / if MM2 gets built, Geelong gets a free ride on a development designed to provide public transport to billions of dollars of new property and housing at Fisherman's Bend - again, more future development.

The fact that fast rail to Geelong is currently just duplicating a stretch of track between Laverton and Newport where there's already a wide existing reserve rather than demolishing multiple stations, overpasses and extending the Metro tunnel might also have something to do with it.
Tony M.

I'd think this is at least half of the reason, it's the ultimate low hanging fruit and if it was difficult it simply wouldn't get done.
  Lockie91 Assistant Commissioner

Total reliability is more important than shaving a minute or two here and there to please those to whom every second counts towards their ideological fantasies and their blood pressure. This, of course, includes the fanatics driving high(er) speed Geelong who believe that they can get from Geelong to Spencer Street in total comfort faster than the rest of us can get from Frankston in a Metro pig pen.

Why some seek fantasyland when reasonable reliable reality can be had for a fraction of the cost albeit with the sacrifice of a theoretical few minutes in time and great potential loss of service reliability.

How many people in Victoria who must be somewhere at a given time have to plan on at least one earlier Vline or Metro service than necessary to be reasonably assured of making that appointment.

Reliability is far more important than lightning speed. This applies to both passenger in all its forms and freight as well.

We're not talking about a minute or two, we're talking ~15 minutes. It's the difference between travelling on a vlo and a loco train. This might not seem like much for someone wanting to make the odd appointment, but for a commuter this is half an hour a day, 2 1/2 hours a week. That's time for a sleep in, and getting home during the daylight in winter.

I'm all for reliability, the SthG-WP duplication and WP stabling takes care of that, the faster Geelong route isn't detracting from reliability.

Perhaps the people in Frankston should start shouting for faster services.
Riain
I understand that your total focus is on Geelong as that is where you live and the train you catch daily. It is worth understanding what else is happening on the network be it regional or metro. This allows you to understand what other are facing, how it compares your line and gives you an idea of what can be done.

Its not as simple as build me a rail line so I can get a train whenever I want. The network needs to serve hundreds of thousand of people, with competing demands and the smell of an oily rag. Then you have to have a think about what the governments agenda is.

As for your comments, I'm not sure what you think this project is going to achieve in the short term at least. Initial media is that maybe one or two services will go via Newport with the rest still going via RRL. So if you're lucky enough to be able to catch the flagship express services, you might benefit. The majority will not. All this project has done in the short term is create a bottle neck at Newport which RRL resolved 10 years ago. So I'm not quite sure where reliability comes from. A hiccup on the Newport corridor and your express services crawls into Southern Cross, there goes your 15 minutes.

The idea that MM2 is low hanging fruit is fanciful. More than 16 billion dollars was the figure IV put out. Even they are trying to work out to make the cost benefit stack up to justify spending the money. Most of us will be dead and buried before that project see that light of day. So in the preceding 30 years, what have you got for $4 billion. Nothing.

The current upgrades at WP, though too Geelong will do more to improve the service reliability and travel times in the short term than Fast Rail will.

The reality is that most people don't care about the time. It is knowing that your train will turn up at the same time everyday and will take you to your destination on time every day of the year.

It is similar story for Ballarat, the project may have slowed trains by a minute or so, but reliability has dramatically increased.

As for Frankston, another big expenditure for little gain. Unless 100,000 people are travelling from Frankston everyday there is no justification to sink billions into an express track.

It sounds like your biggest concern is the 15 minutes you will save, maybe it's time to look at were you work. If those 2 hours a week are very important too you, maybe move closer to work or find work near where you live. A lot of people on the Metro network spend far more than you do commuting to work.

Lockie
  timboman Beginner

Respect Lockie

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