Ultima Container Siding and Hay Traffic

 
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out

I wonder why that would be, there should be no issues finding a path via Bacchus Marsh on a weekend these days.

On a separate note, what are the gen-sets used for on the Ultima rake? I can't imagine hay requires refrigeration.Haul reefers as well just none today.Good info from both, Bronzel do you know what are the contents of the Reefers & origin ?

BigShunter.Pickerings Transport in Swan Hill have been shipping some produce to port via the Ultima train apparently.
Carnot
They are the main reason that the train exists in the first place.

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  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.

I wonder why that would be, there should be no issues finding a path via Bacchus Marsh on a weekend these days.

On a separate note, what are the gen-sets used for on the Ultima rake? I can't imagine hay requires refrigeration.Haul reefers as well just none today.Good info from both, Bronzel do you know what are the contents of the Reefers & origin ?

BigShunter.Pickerings Transport in Swan Hill have been shipping some produce to port via the Ultima train apparently.
Carnot
Ok, I had assumed as much, wasn't sure what else around Swan Hill may have jumped on the loading as well..
BigShunter.
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
A nice clip here of the Ultima hay unit. It sounds by the comments posted on this video that some speed has been gained through some maintenance on the track, which is good to here. In the back ground of a number of videos there has been piles of sleepers along various parts of the line, it also looks to be rather fresh ballast coming down the slope here.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLdkLLpuVlo

Thanks to Graeme for the clip.

BigShunter.
  8502 Assistant Commissioner

Railcam log shows the train came in via Gheringhap this week.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Brown stuff is hitting the fan - Ultima got stopped at Geelong this morning after VLine slapped a ban on CQXY wagons on Class 3 or lower grade track.

That's another massive blow to rail freight in this State. Ultima and Deni freight unlikely to run if this can't be sorted out.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
What would likely lead to a move like this? Has there been an incident involving these wagons?
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Part of me wonders if it's a political decision....
  Jack Clark Station Staff

Brown stuff is hitting the fan - Ultima got stopped at Geelong this morning after VLine slapped a ban on CQXY wagons on Class 3 or lower grade track.
Carnot
I think you'll find those wagons have always had that restriction.

Obviously a bored train controller has noticed the discrepancy and pulled Qube up on it.

I think Qube should be thankful they got away with it for so long!
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Brown stuff is hitting the fan - Ultima got stopped at Geelong this morning after VLine slapped a ban on CQXY wagons on Class 3 or lower grade track.
I think you'll find those wagons have always had that restriction.

Obviously a bored train controller has noticed the discrepancy and pulled Qube up on it.

I think Qube should be thankful they got away with it for so long!
Jack Clark
I think you might be right.  I checked an old copy of the Addenda from 2019, and sure enough they were restricted to Class 1 & 2, and Class 3 in metro area only.
  YM-Mundrabilla The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
The real question is why?
What is it about these wagons that sets them apart?
  speedemon08 Mary

Location: I think by now you should have figured it out
Crosspost just in case the other thread gets merged.

Alright to preface this.

I had heard earlier today Qube had run the Ultima to North Shore and return to Vic Dock for unknown reasons.

Later as I got home, a friend told me that during the run outbound, all of a sudden V/line train control noticed they had CQXY's in the consist and told the driver that they were banned on class 3 track on the the V/line network and returned to Vic Dock to which they've spent most of the day trying to find every spare wagon that can be run for the train.

The CQXY's had been running on the Deni and Echuca trains for the last 5 years (after they got displaced from the Maryvale by the SQEF wagons) with Qube loading them within the V/line network axle loading, 19 tonnes an axle. This caused ZERO issues up until this point, and for some reason only got noticed now. Not even Qube know the reason why they are not allowed on the outer network, nor the drivers on the train at the time.

Funnily enough, the 80ft SQEF's are valid to run on the Ultima, but for some reason the 2x 40ft paired flats aren't.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Is the entire Ultima rake made up of these CQXY wagons? If not, how many?
  YM-Mundrabilla The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
A bureaucratic paperwork issue, perhaps?
  Jack Le Lievre Assistant Commissioner

Location: Moolap Station, Vic
Is the entire Ultima rake made up of these CQXY wagons? If not, how many?
Gman_86
The last time I saw it there were eleven pairs of CQXYs or twenty-two platforms of the forty-seven wagon consist, so a little under half.

The total consist was made up of the following.

Seven CQBYs (Three TEUs per wagon)

Eleven pairs of CQXYs (Four TEUs per pair or Two TEUs per Platform)

Sixteen TQXFs (Three TEUs per wagon)

Three TQYFs (Two TEUs per wagon)
  Carnot Minister for Railways

The Ultima freight train is loading today. Looks like it's using the 25 wagon rake that usually run on the Deni Rice (which itself won't run again until November).
  M636C Minister for Railways

A bureaucratic paperwork issue, perhaps?
YM-Mundrabilla
I think the problem is the wheel spacing.
The distance between the outer wheels of the two bogies at the inner ends of the pair might be less than allowed by Cooper Bridge loadings.

This is because all four axles might be on a small bridge or culvert at the same time.

The long drawbars on some paired 100 tonne coal wagons in NSW is to limit such bridge loadings.

This has been important in Queensland for a long time.

When the English Electric 1300 class was designed, they modified the design from the lighter 1620 class.
They wanted to use the same bogie but with a 90 ton locomotive, the wheel spacing used for a 60 ton locomotive was too small.
So EE cut the wooden mould for the bogie frame and inserted a six inch plug to increase the axle spacing.
The cut lines were visible on all the bogie castings.

The QR 2600 class had a much longer bogie wheelbase than the standard GE export locomotive (Compare the NZR Dx) and a similar bogie was used on the WAGR P class (which is used on the lightest WA grain lines.)

The actual axle loadings would depend on the weight of the containers and should not be a problem with empty containers in general.

Peter
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Also the issue that  VLP is PARANOID about bogies with smaller diameter wheels and the slightly gretaer wheel interface with the rail placing slighly greater axle force on the rail.

Doesnt alter the fact they have been running around without incident on this and other tracks for years without incident, so in this circumstance probably a gross over reaction in disrupting export traffic, rather than allow the train to complete its journey.

All this stuff re track standards vehicles allowed to operate should be taken away from Operators like VLP and MTM and set by  Victrack, DOT or  Victorian Directorate of Rail Safety..
  Greensleeves Chief Commissioner

Location: If it isn't obvious by now, it should be.
Also the issue that  VLP is PARANOID about bogies with smaller diameter wheels and the slightly gretaer wheel interface with the rail placing slighly greater axle force on the rail.

Doesnt alter the fact they have been running around without incident on this and other tracks for years without incident, so in this circumstance probably a gross over reaction in disrupting export traffic, rather than allow the train to complete its journey.

All this stuff re track standards vehicles allowed to operate should be taken away from Operators like VLP and MTM and set by  Victrack, DOT or  Victorian Directorate of Rail Safety..
kuldalai

The CQXY's on Broad Gauge don't even have low diameter wheels- they've got regular 50t exchange bogies under them.


https://flic.kr/p/2hGMLyU
  YM-Mundrabilla The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Also the issue that  VLP is PARANOID about bogies with smaller diameter wheels and the slightly gretaer wheel interface with the rail placing slighly greater axle force on the rail.

Doesnt alter the fact they have been running around without incident on this and other tracks for years without incident, so in this circumstance probably a gross over reaction in disrupting export traffic, rather than allow the train to complete its journey.

All this stuff re track standards vehicles allowed to operate should be taken away from Operators like VLP and MTM and set by  Victrack, DOT or  Victorian Directorate of Rail Safety..

The CQXY's on Broad Gauge don't even have low diameter wheels- they've got regular 50t exchange bogies under them.


https://flic.kr/p/2hGMLyU
Greensleeves
Interesting that Vline Addenda shows a deck height of 1158 mm whilst CFCLA data shows 1020 mm (only a difference of 138 mm or 5 1/2 inches - she'll be right Rolling Eyes.........) so someone is telling lies.
I cannot imagine anyone building new container flats with a deck height of 1158 mm in this day and age. 1158 mm is 47 mm (almost 2 inches higher than a ~60 year old VQCX which was (and remains) the gold standard of 63 foot container flats in my view.
I have been wrong before but there has to be more to this, however.
A further complication where the Vline Network Operating document states:
'The axle load of articulated freight vehicles SHALL NOT EXCEED 19 tonnes gross.'...
The CQXYs are not articulated - they are simply semi-permanently drawbar coupled pairs.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
The hay train ran yesterday according to Gheringhap loop.
  Greensleeves Chief Commissioner

Location: If it isn't obvious by now, it should be.
Also the issue that  VLP is PARANOID about bogies with smaller diameter wheels and the slightly gretaer wheel interface with the rail placing slighly greater axle force on the rail.

Doesnt alter the fact they have been running around without incident on this and other tracks for years without incident, so in this circumstance probably a gross over reaction in disrupting export traffic, rather than allow the train to complete its journey.

All this stuff re track standards vehicles allowed to operate should be taken away from Operators like VLP and MTM and set by  Victrack, DOT or  Victorian Directorate of Rail Safety..

The CQXY's on Broad Gauge don't even have low diameter wheels- they've got regular 50t exchange bogies under them.
Interesting that Vline Addenda shows a deck height of 1158 mm whilst CFCLA data shows 1020 mm (only a difference of 138 mm or 5 1/2 inches - she'll be right Rolling Eyes.........) so someone is telling lies.
I cannot imagine anyone building new container flats with a deck height of 1158 mm in this day and age. 1158 mm is 47 mm (almost 2 inches higher than a ~60 year old VQCX which was (and remains) the gold standard of 63 foot container flats in my view.
I have been wrong before but there has to be more to this, however.
A further complication where the Vline Network Operating document states:
'The axle load of articulated freight vehicles SHALL NOT EXCEED 19 tonnes gross.'...
The CQXYs are not articulated - they are simply semi-permanently drawbar coupled pairs.
YM-Mundrabilla

I suspect at least part of the difference between Vline and CFCLA data is due to the 50t bogies on the BG wagons.

The CQXY's were delivered with the standard Chinese design bogie with low level wheelsets (with those still on SG still running on them). The conversion to BG fitted 50t exchange bogies with their larger diameter wheelsets which would logically increase the ride height of the wagon.

The bogie differences are clearly visible when comparing these two pics of the exact same CQXY pair before and after conversion to BG.

https://flic.kr/p/e8GJvP

https://flic.kr/p/HdvWLM
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

VLP has now miraculously approved the aforesaid problem child waggons to run all track classes.  For once a quick resolution from all parties involved for the benefit of rail forwarders and QUBE.  Pershaps next time such an incident arises the train involved will not be stopped in its tracks  !!! After all the waggons had been running around on all sorts of quality tracks for over 5 years without incident.
  Lachlan's Train Channel Chief Train Controller

Location: probably taking a photo of 7901V
The Ultima freight train is loading today. Looks like it's using the 25 wagon rake that usually run on the Deni Rice (which itself won't run again until November).
Carnot
It will be running, just to Tocumwal, last i heard
  trainbrain Chief Commissioner

The Ultima freight train is loading today. Looks like it's using the 25 wagon rake that usually run on the Deni Rice (which itself won't run again until November).
It will be running, just to Tocumwal, last i heard
Lachlan's Train Channel
Temporary Deni train running there whilst Echuca line works in progress.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Not the first time Deni loading has been railed out of Tocumwal.

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