Future of Sydney’s Electric Rolling Stock (K/C/V Sets)

 
  Sydney Metro Vlogs Locomotive Driver

Location: On H1 in car OD6901
Does anyone know which runs are begin operated by C Sets? Some C Set runs on the timetable appear to be run by K Sets.

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  C3765 Train Controller

Does anyone know which runs are begin operated by C Sets? Some C Set runs on the timetable appear to be run by K Sets.
Sydney Metro Vlogs

C-Sets are rostered for runs 6, 26, 27, 28 and 29. If a run is rostered as a K Set or C Set, you are basically only guaranteed that it will be a silver set. As the sets shuffle daily, there is no specific run numbers which are going to guarantee you a C Set. You will just have to work hard to track one down.
  Griffinrails Official Locomotive Fireman

Location: Dunno. (help i'm lost)
I heard that a batch of C sets will be taken to be scrapped on the 27th from Flemington to Chullora. Is this true?
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
If there was a movement like that, I assume a TOC waiver would be issued. None have been.
  Sydney Metro Vlogs Locomotive Driver

Location: On H1 in car OD6901
If there was a movement like that, I assume a TOC waiver would be issued. None have been.
DCook
A waiver was signed in November (203-983)

Transfer of Under Mass C Set cars to Flemington South Junction, and on to chillers.

https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/system/files/media/asa_standards/2020/tw-203-983.pdf
  DCook Chief Train Controller

Location: The standard state
According to the SETS facebook page, all C sets will be retired by the 28th of February.
  scott4570 Chief Train Controller

As mentioned in a earlier post, C sets will not be included in the Timetable as from Sunday, February 28.

As from February 28, 11 x 8B set Rosters will be added to the current 22, bringing the total to 33 sets.
At 92% availability (33 Rosters), this means they need 3 sets for the Maintenance Cycle, giving a total of 36 sets to run the Timetable.

Sighted 1630 hours (approx.) Friday, February 12, at Homebush, set B34 running a "All Stops" service to the City.
Assuming all sets between set B25 and B34 have been commissioned, then 2 x 8B sets are still required to be introduced by February 28.
With the reduction in 8K set Rosters come February 28, K sets should be available to stand in for 4 x 8B sets, if that's required.

From this calculation, it does seem that Sydney Trains is on track with the delivery of B sets, and therefore C sets can be set aside.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

As mentioned in a earlier post, C sets will not be included in the Timetable as from Sunday, February 28.

As from February 28, 11 x 8B set Rosters will be added to the current 22, bringing the total to 33 sets.
At 92% availability (33 Rosters), this means they need 3 sets for the Maintenance Cycle, giving a total of 36 sets to run the Timetable.

Sighted 1630 hours (approx.) Friday, February 12, at Homebush, set B34 running a "All Stops" service to the City.
Assuming all sets between set B25 and B34 have been commissioned, then 2 x 8B sets are still required to be introduced by February 28.
With the reduction in 8K set Rosters come February 28, K sets should be available to stand in for 4 x 8B sets, if that's required.

From this calculation, it does seem that Sydney Trains is on track with the delivery of B sets, and therefore C sets can be set aside.
scott4570
C set chopper equipment being utilised to keep chopper V sets going.
  mike49 Locomotive Fireman

As mentioned in a earlier post, C sets will not be included in the Timetable as from Sunday, February 28.

As from February 28, 11 x 8B set Rosters will be added to the current 22, bringing the total to 33 sets.
At 92% availability (33 Rosters), this means they need 3 sets for the Maintenance Cycle, giving a total of 36 sets to run the Timetable.

Sighted 1630 hours (approx.) Friday, February 12, at Homebush, set B34 running a "All Stops" service to the City.
Assuming all sets between set B25 and B34 have been commissioned, then 2 x 8B sets are still required to be introduced by February 28.
With the reduction in 8K set Rosters come February 28, K sets should be available to stand in for 4 x 8B sets, if that's required.

From this calculation, it does seem that Sydney Trains is on track with the delivery of B sets, and therefore C sets can be set aside.
scott4570
It is a shame that some of the sets being displaced haven't been used to increase selected T5 services from 4 to 8 car sets. They suffer from significant overcrowding at times.
  C3765 Train Controller

5 days left with 9 sets left in service! Could be less.
  C3765 Train Controller

On another note, Y1 seems to be a four-car set now. It may have been this way for a while now.
  scott4570 Chief Train Controller

To incorporate the 2nd batch of B sets into the Timetable, a re-allocation of set-types will take place as from February 28.
.
As a result, from this date, C sets will not be required to operate in the Timetable.
.
Roster changes:-
11 x 8B set Rosters added to the current 22.
 6 x 8C set Rosters deleted.
 4 x 8K set Rosters deleted, reducing to a total of 13.
 1 x 8M set Roster changed to a "Stand by" Roster.
scott4570
Amending the above Post from January 16.

As from February 28, (for Weekdays from March 1) for the 8K set and 8M set Rosters:-
5 x 8K set Rosters deleted, reducing to a total of 12.
There is no "Stand by" 8M set Roster.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Photo from a recent C Set tour https://www.railpage.com.au/photos/121954
  C3765 Train Controller

C-Set Update
Transfers:

FMC to Chullora (08/02/21)
8144, C3603 (Ex C2), T4269 (Ex C2), T4261 (Ex C2), C3595 (Ex C2), C3594 (Ex C10), T4255 (Ex C10), T4260 (Ex C4), C3589 (Ex C4), 8252

FMC to Chullora (19/03/21)
8XXX, C3606 (Ex C8), 4247 (Ex C8), 4258 (Ex C13), 3592 (Ex C13), 3591 (Ex C14), T4257 (Ex C14), T4267 (Ex C14), C3601 (Ex C14), 3600 (Ex C11), 4250 (Ex C11), 8XXX

FMC to Chullora (06/05/21)
4827, C3581 (Ex C11), T4272 (Ex C11), 4819

Chullora to Orchard Hills (06/05/21)
C3581 (Ex C11), T4272 (Ex C11)

Auburn to Chullora (13/05/21)
8138, C3585 (Ex C8, was C13), T4251 (Ex C8, was C13), T4264 (Ex C8), C3598 (Ex C8), C3605 (Ex C6), T4271 (Ex C6), T4256 (Ex C6), C3590 (Ex C6), C3593 (Ex C7), T4259 (Ex C7), T4248 (Ex C7), C3582 (Ex C7), 8234

FMC to Chullora (13/05/21)
8234, C3587 (Ex C10), T4253 (Ex C10), T4270 (Ex C10, was C4), C3604 (Ex C10, was C4), C3583 (Ex C12), T4249 (Ex C12), T4263 (Ex C12), C3597 (Ex C12), 8138


Remaining Sets:

FMC
C1 (C3588, T4254, T4252, C3586), C3 (C3607, T4273, T4265, C3599), C5 (C3596, T4262, T4266, C3584)

AMF
C9 (C3602, T4268, T4274, C3608)

Interesting to note C5 has the only two power cars to get the CityRail (Blue and White) Livery; C3584 and C3596. Also, funny how many motor cars ended up reuniting with their sisters/brothers at Chullora. E.g. 3595 & 3594, 3592 & 3591, 3601 & 3600
  s3_gunzel Not a gunzel developer

Location: Western Sydney, AU
I do have a photo available. But due to the photo system on Railpage not being mobile friendly. And that the photo is only on my phone. I can't do that right now. Hope you understand... I really do.... Because I'm not ready for another card game of FLAME WARS! Twisted Evil
AheadMatthewawsome
Without prejudice -

To upload an image to Railpage you would need to use one of the many other photo hosting services; flickr, instagram, imgur. You've never been able to upload a photo to Railpage.
  scott4570 Chief Train Controller

To incorporate the Full deployment of the 2nd batch of B sets into the Timetable, a re-allocation of set-types will take place as from Saturday, June 12.

Weekday Roster changes, from Tuesday, June 15:-
4 x 8B set Rosters added to the current 33, total deployment of 37 sets to the Timetable.
Note, 4 x 8B sets for the Maintenance Cycle. Total Fleet 41.
4 x 8K set Rosters deleted, reducing to a total of 8.

Weekend Roster changes, from Saturday, June 12:-
15 x 8B set Rosters added to the current 21, total 36.
15 x 8A set Rosters deleted, reducing to a total of 7.
  C3765 Train Controller

C-Set Officially Preserved
Despite the many claims all over the internet that no C-Sets will be preserved, after considerable effort by the Sydney Electric Train Society, the organisation successfully managed to reach an agreement for them to officially preserve a four carriage example of a Chopper set as part of their collection. They have been retained as:

1. They represent an important technological link between the second generation rolling stock and the third generation Tangara fleet.

2. They will allow SETS to familiarise with and better understand the Thyristor-chopper traction system so that further down the line they can be installed in the 86 class locos which they were intended to be built with.

So far, SETS has only confirmed car C 3984 as being part of their collection.

A brief history of C3984:

C 3584 and its (now scrapped) companion trailer T 4250 were delivered early for mainline testing, including between Pendle Hill and Westmead. It was a part of the first Chopper set to enter service in July 1986. Prior to entering service, C 3584 appeared without the usual Chopper-style fiberglass front and was identical in appearance to a candy coloured K-set, complete with stainless steel gangway flaps. When the car was ready to enter service, the gangway flaps were removed and a now familiar Chopper set fiberglass front was fitted. Compared to previous suburban carriages, C-sets cars were notable for their directionally fixed seating, external and internal door operation LED indicators and door chimes. Compared to the previous bright yellow interiored K-sets, the C-sets were delivered with white interiors, fully air conditioned and with no openable passenger windows. When delivered for service, C 3584 carried a large rectangular sign each side which had “New Electronically Controlled Train” written on it. This was attached by pop rivets between the upper and lower deck windows. The cars were formally delivered in their completed appearance from A Goninan & Co on 19th July 1986 and entered service on to set K 40 on 25th July 1986. This car also represents the first order of Chopper C set cars which had a different style of vinyl floor coverings to the second order of cars. The first order of C set cars were also the last cars from Goninan to have hand painted external car numbers applied. This car and it's trailer were sent to A. Goninan & Co at Broadmeadow for their CityDecker refurbishment on 23rd November 1998 and were outshopped on 18th December 1998, returning to service on set C 9. Various safety modifications were installed on this car and all of the C set fleet in stages in 2000, 2004 and 2007. C 3584 is currently a part of set C 5 which, at the time of writing in July 2021, last operated in revenue service with Sydney Trains on run number 9 on 15th April 2021. This car was also a part of the eight car Chopper set that was used on SETS Farewell four the the C sets, the "Chopper To The Summit Tour", held on 6th March 2021.
The Sydney Electric Train Society



Thanks to Michael McGinty and Hugh Burns for the information.
  s3_gunzel Not a gunzel developer

Location: Western Sydney, AU
Despite the many claims all over the internet that no C-Sets will be preserved
C3765
For the benefit of everyone, these claims were made on the basis that:

1) The C Set parts are no longer available.
2) The entire reason the C Sets are being withdrawn is because of 1), and
3) It would be not-feasible to preserve one. THNSW has a space issue, and HET also have spatial limitations.

Without making myself sound better than SETS, they're going to have a hell of a time preserving it operational, if - in fact - that is their plan.
  C3765 Train Controller

I think everyone is already aware of this however just in case, here is information on the upcoming Great Northern Chopper Tour.

https://www.sets.org.au/tours/index.php?id=123

Although not officially announced, the consist of the preserved set is 3584 (Ex C5) - 4266 (Ex C5) - 4274 (Ex C9) - 3608 (Ex C9); with C9 being transferred to Flemington last week from Auburn.

C1, C3 and the displaced cars from C5 and C9 were transferred to Chullora earlier today on run T187 leaving Flemington at approximately 2pm.

This eliminates the possibility for an 8 car set for the upcoming tour unless they attach a 4K which would certainly make for an interesting sight. (May not be allowed for passenger services)
  s3_gunzel Not a gunzel developer

Location: Western Sydney, AU
This eliminates the possibility for an 8 car set for the upcoming tour unless they attach a 4K which would certainly make for an interesting sight. (May not be allowed for passenger services)
C3765
It isn’t allowed, which is why you never saw it in service.

S and K yes, C and K no.
  Griffinrails Official Locomotive Fireman

Location: Dunno. (help i'm lost)
Well, with the new strike occurring on the 28th, I honestly doubt that the V sets will be replaced by the NIFs soon. They've been doing nothing for 2 years now, and even if the V sets get replaced it definitely won't be by the Mariyungs.
Let's hope that the strike goes well for the workers.

Does anyone have any idea what K sets will be preserved? Maybe the ex.Newcastle set? It was used in a SETS tour after all.
  s3_gunzel Not a gunzel developer

Location: Western Sydney, AU
Well, with the new strike occurring on the 28th, I honestly doubt that the V sets will be replaced by the NIFs soon.
Griffinrails Official
I had an interesting discussion this morning which basically detailed why. I can't go into detail, but I'd wager you're right.

Does anyone have any idea what K sets will be preserved? Maybe the ex.Newcastle set? It was used in a SETS tour after all.
Griffinrails Official
My understanding is none - THNSW had the option to preserve a K at the time they went to preserve a C and opted for none of either. Lots of reasons why, but just remember that everything you keep needs space (and time) dedicated to it.
  Griffinrails Official Locomotive Fireman

Location: Dunno. (help i'm lost)
That's good to hear, the less NIFs the better IMHO.
I once heard a rumor on a CPH railmotor trip at the last heritage expo that some V sets would be sold to Indian Railways, though I highly doubt that It'll ever happen. (Different gauges, voltage, loading gauge, etc.) It was from a late-teen LVHR volunteer, not the most reliable source.

I wish that more static preservation would happen, especially in public places. You have the convenience of not having to get the train moving, making a new public park and also a landmark.
  s3_gunzel Not a gunzel developer

Location: Western Sydney, AU
I once heard a rumor on a CPH railmotor trip at the last heritage expo that some V sets would be sold to Indian Railways, though I highly doubt that It'll ever happen. (Different gauges, voltage, loading gauge, etc.) It was from a late-teen LVHR volunteer, not the most reliable source.
Griffinrails Official
Ah yes, rumours.

If you haven't heard a rumour by 9am...
  AheadMatthewawsome Train Controller

Location: thendesc
Well, with the new strike occurring on the 28th, I honestly doubt that the V sets will be replaced by the NIFs soon. They've been doing nothing for 2 years now, and even if the V sets get replaced it definitely won't be by the Mariyungs.
Griffinrails Offical
They will have to soon. Some of the trains are almost 50 years old! And also are a pain to anybody who has a disability, including myself. Although they are beautiful trains! They can't stay around for long. Really, the only way that things can continue without causing the whole Suburban and Intercity networks to be decades behind most of the western world! Because having the OSCARS on Sectors 1 and 3 will free up space for more A Sets to go to Sector 2 to get rid of the last K Sets.  There also needs to be enough trains to allow all the Tangara trains to undergo the Tangara Technology Upgrade. Until then, nothing will happen.

The only way I can see everyone being happy is to send the Mariyung trains back to South Korea. Then converting all of the sets to allow Guard and Driver only operation. It would be very expensive, and would set the project back for years.

This brings me to another question. What the heck (that is one of the only bad words I'll say here, unless if things mess up big time) is going on with the Tangara Technology Upgrade? It was supposed to be done over 3 years ago! That also needs to be done to get all the trains up to modern standards!

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