Murray Basin standardisation

 
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Maryborough to Gheringhap standardisation was canned primarily due to pathing issues through a busy Ballarat (especially during the day), and the cost to make that work if it was at all possible.
Carnot
[1] Reinstate the dual track between North Ballarat and Ballarat. This was proposed in the short-lived Freight-Passenger Rail Separation Project and involved widening the Armstrong Street North bridge. Use the south-west line for Wendouree and Ararat; the north-east line for Maryborough.
[2] Use the centre and Platform 2 roads through Ballarat.
[3] Upgrade the Ballarat – Warrenheip south line to RFR standard, perhaps using some of the north line infrastructure. Use the north line for Gheringhap and the south line (RFR) for Ballan.
[4] Cross the north line under the south line at Warrenheip via an underpass.

The only conflict would be RFR services needing to use Platform 2. It would also allow a future Geelong – Ballarat service to operate from Platform 2. Whether it’s BG, SG or DG is a separate issue, as is the proposed intermodal terminal west of Wendouree.

At some stage during the Freight-Passenger Rail Separation Project there was $130 million available from the Victorian government. The Federal government has set aside $250 million for the not-needed Glenferrie Road LX replacement.

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  Tii Train Controller

It mentions that planning for full standardisation would be complete by the end of 2021. Will we see that report?  I'm not holding my breath...
Carnot
me neither. It and a few other past projects have been knobbled or now just dead in the water
  emmastreet Chief Train Controller

Location: Goulburn Valley
I think the Govt were waiting on the Deloitte Business Plan first before they did anything. Thus no action during the Ballarat line upgrade.

Govt should still release the full Deloitte report but they haven't. Transparency is dead with the current State Govt. Pathetic.
It's hard to say what is on and what is off the table at the minute. This seems to be the latest document that comes up when searching The Freight-Passenger Rail Separation Project.

The Australian Government will also contribute $5 million for further planning work on a 50:50 basis with Victoria, which will develop options to take forward the standardisation the Murray Basin Freight Rail Network. This planning will include options for:

·         standardisation of the Sea Lake and Manangatang Lines

·         converting the broad gauge line between Maryborough and Gheringhap to dual gauge, and

·         options for the separation of freight and passenger rail on the Ballarat rail corridor.

This planning work will take into account the priorities and needs of regional businesses and industries, the freight and logistics sectors, and local communities.

https://investment.infrastructure.gov.au/projects/ProjectDetails.aspx?Project_id=062827-15VIC-PKG

However I won't hold my breath and believe it when it happens.

BigShunter.
There is/was also $10million for a study into the freight needs around Shepparton from about 2017 but ive seen absolutely nothing of that nature in 5 years
james.au
I think there is another study going on now or perhaps it's the same one. I think it would be almost certain to centre around the needs of the trucking industry and the need for more HPV's to be able to run here there and everywhere. Pleasantly surprised if rail even get's a mention.
I know. We are in the wrong thread James!
  historian Deputy Commissioner

How does the Dunolly turnout replacement get to be a feature of the project? Isn’t that routine maintenance?
I assume this means the turnout for Yelta or Korong Vale, with the line splits into different gauges. What is the physical arrangement at Dunolly?
duttonbay

The physical arrangement at Dunolly is... curious.

Unless it's been changed since 2019, the dual gauge from Maryborough comes down the hill. There's a fixed broad/standard gauge turnout at the start of the crossing loop - the standard gauge goes straight into No 2 Road, and the broad gauge goes right into No 1 Road (the loop). At the other end of the crossing loop there's another fixed turnout where the two gauges come together again, cross the road, and go to the junction. Here there is a third fixed turnout where the standard gauge goes straight ahead to Yelta, and the broad gauge goes right to Korong Vale.

So two trains of the same gauge can't cross each other at Dunolly.

Why is it like that? The whole arrangement was supposed to be temporary until the Korong Vale line was converted. In the standard gauge No 2 Road there are two turnouts to the sub-terminal. I'd be very sure that these are standard gauge only, and the broad gauge No 1 Road is there simply to avoid having to put in 'temporary' dual gauge turnouts to the sub-terminal.

I'd rather suspect that 'turnout replacement' means one of...
  1. Provision of dual gauge turnouts at either end of the crossing loop, and conversion of No 1 Rd to dual gauge. This would allow standard gauge trains to cross at Dunolly.
  2. As for 1, but also provide dual gauge turnouts to the sub-terminal and conversion of No 2 Rd to dual guage. This would allow both broad and standard trains to cross at Dunolly.

A really good idea would be to recommission the old standard gauge outloader as a broad gauge outloader. This would allow wheat to run via Ballarat again. But who knows if the owners of the sub-terminal are interested.

(Edit: Upon re-reading, it occurred to me that I assumed they'd want to improve the current facilities. 'Turnout replacement' could also mean putting in dual gauge turnouts to the sub-terminal and dual gauging No 2 Road. This would allow abolition of the broad gauge No 1 Road and two of the three fixed turnouts. Cheaper to maintain and gives a better run for broad gauge trains. No worse for traffic purposes than the current layout.)
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

How does the Dunolly turnout replacement get to be a feature of the project? Isn’t that routine maintenance?
I assume this means the turnout for Yelta or Korong Vale, with the line splits into different gauges. What is the physical arrangement at Dunolly?

The physical arrangement at Dunolly is... curious.

Unless it's been changed since 2019, the dual gauge from Maryborough comes down the hill. There's a fixed broad/standard gauge turnout at the start of the crossing loop - the standard gauge goes straight into No 2 Road, and the broad gauge goes right into No 1 Road (the loop). At the other end of the crossing loop there's another fixed turnout where the two gauges come together again, cross the road, and go to the junction. Here there is a third fixed turnout where the standard gauge goes straight ahead to Yelta, and the broad gauge goes right to Korong Vale.

So two trains of the same gauge can't cross each other at Dunolly.

Why is it like that? The whole arrangement was supposed to be temporary until the Korong Vale line was converted. In the standard gauge No 2 Road there are two turnouts to the sub-terminal. I'd be very sure that these are standard gauge only, and the broad gauge No 1 Road is there simply to avoid having to put in 'temporary' dual gauge turnouts to the sub-terminal.

I'd rather suspect that 'turnout replacement' means one of...
  1. Provision of dual gauge turnouts at either end of the crossing loop, and conversion of No 1 Rd to dual gauge. This would allow standard gauge trains to cross at Dunolly.
  2. As for 1, but also provide dual gauge turnouts to the sub-terminal and conversion of No 2 Rd to dual guage. This would allow both broad and standard trains to cross at Dunolly.

A really good idea would be to recommission the old standard gauge outloader as a broad gauge outloader. This would allow wheat to run via Ballarat again. But who knows if the owners of the sub-terminal are interested.

(Edit: Upon re-reading, it occurred to me that I assumed they'd want to improve the current facilities. 'Turnout replacement' could also mean putting in dual gauge turnouts to the sub-terminal and dual gauging No 2 Road. This would allow abolition of the broad gauge No 1 Road and two of the three fixed turnouts. Cheaper to maintain and gives a better run for broad gauge trains. No worse for traffic purposes than the current layout.)
historian
Thanks historian. I thought that was the case. I note that the Network Service Plan states there is a 15kph speed limit for "All Trains between Signals DLY 6 DLY 26 and DLY 28". Wherever those signals are... Probably over the three gauge splitters? So I was wondering whether perhaps a proper turnout could be used, with point blades, so the speed limit could be increased.

Your idea offers more flexibility, but I would have thought it that was to be the case, it would have been described as more than  a simple "turnout replacement"
  hbedriver Assistant Commissioner

Let’s hope the genius division doesn’t use the relatively new turnouts that were on the flyover. I suppose someone will think they’re OK as long as the XPT doesn’t use them. After all, it was only one train that derailed
  Upven Train Controller

My eyes are starting to betray me, I keep reading the title of this thread as 'Murray Basin Bastardisation'
  Lachlan's Train Channel Junior Train Controller

Location: probably taking a photo of 7901V
The Sea Lake and Manangatang lines have received the critical maintenance as well as Dunolly to Korong Vale. So line speeds are back the previous normal.
cbinyon
I haven't seen anything to suggest this work has been done as yet? or is it being done right now?
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

1. Dunnolly is fitted with gauge splitters, they are simpler and easier to maintain than dual gauge turnouts.

2. The funded works provide for motorized dual gauge turnouts at both Maryborough and Dunolly.

3.  RPV are doing the works and the same consortium that did the recent Ballarat line works have been awarded the job.

This time RPV will be the project manager,  Government fed up with VLP poor project management and cost blowouts on the MB works with VLP past efforts.  Auditor General was scathing of  poor initial scoping, costing, and poor project management to date.

Works are supposed to start early 2022 and be completed in the second quarter iof 2023.

Works included at  Tourello restoration bg loop,  re-rail Ararat - Maryborough and new crossing loop near Elmhurst, commission cross link signalling at Ararat, track and signalling works at Maryborough and Dunolly.  Siding work and similar at Donald and Merbein.  

Separately track miantennace deficit catch up on Murrayville sg, and Manangatang & Sea Lake lines bg.
  cbinyon Chief Train Controller

Location: London, England
The Sea Lake and Manangatang lines have received the critical maintenance as well as Dunolly to Korong Vale. So line speeds are back the previous normal.
I haven't seen anything to suggest this work has been done as yet? or is it being done right now?
Lachlan's Train Channel
Most of the BG maintenance is completed except the Manangatang Line. It started in February at Sea Lake.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
When I was up that way back in May, there was a considerable workforce plying their trade along the line at Kurting. There were also large stockpiles of fresh ballast and sleepers deposited along the line. So, yes fair to say a fair chunk of work has already been done.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Thanks historian. I thought that was the case. I note that the Network Service Plan states there is a 15kph speed limit for "All Trains between Signals DLY 6 DLY 26 and DLY 28". Wherever those signals are... Probably over the three gauge splitters? So I was wondering whether perhaps a proper turnout could be used, with point blades, so the speed limit could be increased.

Your idea offers more flexibility, but I would have thought it that was to be the case, it would have been described as more than a simple "turnout replacement"
duttonbay


From the SA Track and Signal website:
https://www.sa-trackandsignal.net/Pdf%20files/VCRN/VL1167.pdf
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

Thanks historian. I thought that was the case. I note that the Network Service Plan states there is a 15kph speed limit for "All Trains between Signals DLY 6 DLY 26 and DLY 28". Wherever those signals are... Probably over the three gauge splitters? So I was wondering whether perhaps a proper turnout could be used, with point blades, so the speed limit could be increased.

Your idea offers more flexibility, but I would have thought it that was to be the case, it would have been described as more than a simple "turnout replacement"


From the SA Track and Signal website:
https://www.sa-trackandsignal.net/Pdf%20files/VCRN/VL1167.pdf
kitchgp
Thanks. I had already looked at that, but got fixated on DLY 36 and 38, and didn't notice 26 and 28 are the up signals.  And signal DLY 6 is the down home.  I like the speed boards showing 20 and 70 (Stopped trains maximum speed to Thomsons Road 70 kph!! - considering it's less than 500m).  That drawing is dated 2015, the NSP now states 15 kmh between opposing home signals.
  kitchgp Chief Commissioner

Yes, but it must have been updated since, for SG in 2018 at least.
  rwatts Junior Train Controller

Location: Adelaide SA
Yes, but it must have been updated since, for SG in 2018 at least.
kitchgp
The PDF document properties show it was first created in 2008, and last modified 5 August 2021 (although that doesnt necesarily mean the content changed - there may be other reasons for a new copy of the file).
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

Yes, but it must have been updated since, for SG in 2018 at least.
kitchgp
Must have. It shows the SG to Mildura and the BG to Inglewood.
  Lachlan's Train Channel Junior Train Controller

Location: probably taking a photo of 7901V
The Sea Lake and Manangatang lines have received the critical maintenance as well as Dunolly to Korong Vale. So line speeds are back the previous normal.
I haven't seen anything to suggest this work has been done as yet? or is it being done right now?
Most of the BG maintenance is completed except the Manangatang Line. It started in February at Sea Lake.
cbinyon
Thanks. When is Manangatang supposed to start, if you know?
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Manangatang line work has been happening for approx the past month around Lalbert. Heaps of concrete sleepers line side through Boort apparently. Single gauge BG...
  cbinyon Chief Train Controller

Location: London, England
Manangatang line work has been happening for approx the past month around Lalbert. Heaps of concrete sleepers line side through Boort apparently. Single gauge BG...
Carnot
Besides the lack of logic with BG only sleeper, these tracks are going to be in the best shape they've been in years. Most of the BG network North of Dunolly has had some level of maintenance, albeit catch up work.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Yes, hopefully all back to decent line speeds. Although I suspect Ultima to Manang might remain at 40km/h...
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

Thanks historian. I thought that was the case. I note that the Network Service Plan states there is a 15kph speed limit for "All Trains between Signals DLY 6 DLY 26 and DLY 28". Wherever those signals are... Probably over the three gauge splitters? So I was wondering whether perhaps a proper turnout could be used, with point blades, so the speed limit could be increased.

Your idea offers more flexibility, but I would have thought it that was to be the case, it would have been described as more than a simple "turnout replacement"


From the SA Track and Signal website:
https://www.sa-trackandsignal.net/Pdf%20files/VCRN/VL1167.pdf
kitchgp
See above post re scope of works at Dunolly & Maryborough.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Thanks again @Greensleeves



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKhJ7Le6Wag
  Duncs Chief Commissioner

Thanks again @Greensleeves



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKhJ7Le6Wag
bevans
From this video footage, I noticed that the section on the Bealiba Bank near Beiliba is still timber sleepers. I thought all of this section gave been concrete sleepered.
  Bonzel Junior Train Controller

Concrete Ararat to Maryborough then timber to Yelta.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Concrete Ararat to Maryborough then timber to Yelta.
Bonzel

We still have timber sleepers all the way to Mildura?

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