The 'renewable' energy thread -

 
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Have read the article and speech.
Climate change propaganda bad.
Capitalist propaganda good.

There is no middle ground.
michaelgm
The fact is that we have to either have nuclear or coal generation in Australia or we'll end up with blackouts - there is no miracle technology or marvelous large-scale project coming that will completely remove the vagaries of 'green' energy despite what some people here believe. The UK didn't have much wind all summer and ended up consuming nearly their entire gas reserves as a result, hence the sky high prices now - do we really want to end up like that?

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  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
The fact is that we have to either have nuclear or coal generation in Australia or we'll end up with blackouts
don_dunstan

What 'fact's'. So now you have a crystal ball and can see into the future...oh greatest seer Exclamation

But it won't matter to you apparently, because you'll be dead by then.

"the planet might warm one or two degrees long after both of us are dead sometime later this century"

M.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
The fact is that we have to either have nuclear or coal generation in Australia or we'll end up with blackouts

What 'fact's'. So now you have a crystal ball and can see into the future...oh greatest seer Exclamation

But it won't matter to you apparently, because you'll be dead by then.

"the planet might warm one or two degrees long after both of us are dead sometime later this century"

M.
The Vinelander
Because you WILL be dead, Mike, so will I. We're not going to live forever. The average Aussie dies at 82 - that means by later this century when all these horrible disasters are supposed to befell us you and I will definitely be dead. That's not "Don Dunstan is being mean" - that's just cold, hard reality.

In the second place, as I've explained on this thread as well as others, these climate change high priests have consistently been wrong. North pole sea ice gone... nup. Australian cities uninhabitable... nup.

I'm yet to see an instance where they've actually been right about something. And you seriously want to freeze to death the poor and the old over this rubbish?
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line

But it won't matter to you apparently, because you'll be dead by then.

"the planet might warm one or two degrees long after both of us are dead sometime later this century"Because you WILL be dead, Mike, so will I. We're not going to live forever. The average Aussie dies at 82 - that means by later this century when all these horrible disasters are supposed to befell us you and I will definitely be dead. That's not the representative from SA being mean - that's just cold, hard reality.
I'm yet to see an instance where they've actually been right about something. And you seriously want to freeze to death the poor and the old over this rubbish.
don_dunstan

You don't have a compassionate bone in your body, "because we'll be dead so we don't have to worry about climate change" but you cry crocodile tears for the pensioners you hope will freeze in their homes this winter so you can say I told you so.

Heartless in the extreme

Mike.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud

But it won't matter to you apparently, because you'll be dead by then.

"the planet might warm one or two degrees long after both of us are dead sometime later this century"Because you WILL be dead, Mike, so will I. We're not going to live forever. The average Aussie dies at 82 - that means by later this century when all these horrible disasters are supposed to befell us you and I will definitely be dead. That's not the representative from SA being mean - that's just cold, hard reality.
I'm yet to see an instance where they've actually been right about something. And you seriously want to freeze to death the poor and the old over this rubbish.
You don't have a compassionate bone in your body, "because we'll be dead so we don't have to worry about climate change" but you cry crocodile tears for the pensioners you hope will freeze in their homes this winter so you can say I told you so.

Heartless in the extreme

Mike.
The Vinelander
How interesting that you accused me of twisting myself into knots in order to try and win an argument only last week - and yet here you are doing exactly that, Mike.

Really, I'm hoping for people to die in their own homes in the UK this winter just so I can be proven right? It's happened before when there was another artificial fuel crisis in the UK in the seventies and it'll likely happen again is all I'm saying - history might not repeat but it sure does rhyme. And you have zero concept of what its like to be poor in a country with regular sub-zero temperatures in winter - the cold can be deadly.

You're just an all-round ignoramus, Mike, admit it.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
You're just an all-round ignoramus, Mike, admit it.
don_dunstan

Ignoramus hey Question

Well todays the BIG day, as I wrote some weeks back today the Murdoch media officially embraces Climate change and Renewable energy through 'Mission Zero' Exclamation

This morning when I tuned into ABC Melbourne for the morning news we learned that the media empire the Representative from SA has supported and linked many wacky climate and renewable theories to has decided it's more profitable for Murdoch's bottom line to support climate change and renewable energy than to espouse its own theories through the fools, idiots and others who were able to use that platform for its crackpot theories.

Although I believe some of its staffers will still occasionally publish their flat Earth opinions.

So listen up Representative from SA...you have now been cast adrift and no doubt when you read the Adelaide Addy over your Corn Flakes this morning you'll have noticed the 16 page wrap around. So better late than never and for all the wrong reasons, read, absorb and consider your theories and the prospect of being further cast adrift into the realm of the nut cases.

Ignoramus hey Question

Mike.
  qredge Deputy Commissioner

Location: Marsden Qld
Record natural gas prices in the UK - up another 40% again today to a new all time high - Energy Voice;

Global fuel shortages are disrupting natural gas markets from the UK to China, as economies emerge from the pandemic.

Surging costs are threatening to raise inflation and starting to weigh on industrial production, with some companies in Europe forced to cut output. Concerns over gas storage levels in Europe are building as winter approaches, helping drive prices ever higher.

“The fiercely nervous sentiment on the market continues due to fears of reduced supply during the winter,” trader Energi Danmark said Tuesday.

Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Tuesday there’s “hysteria and some confusion” on European energy markets amid reduced investments into fossil-fuel extraction, according to Interfax news agency.

Europe’s gas stockpiles are at their lowest seasonal level in more than a decade, with domestic production lagging behind demand, while supplies from top seller Russia are limited and global competition for liquefied natural gas continues to intensify.

The wind didn't blow this summer in the UK causing them to use all their supplies of natural gas - now they have almost none left. That's the fundamental cause of this crisis.
Reduced wind is a minor impact and only recently Minor impact.

Even Sky news doesn't label reduced wind to be the main cause, just another yet small straw.

https://news.sky.com/story/energy-crisis-why-gas-prices-have-soared-and-left-uk-facing-prospect-of-food-shortages-12412951
RTT_Rules
Wind in UK NORMALLY SUPPLIES 18% of the electricity.  For last three months only supplied 2% so shortfall of 16% of gross supply so definitely a big impact!
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Autumn will continue be a problem for the Solar and Wind renewables sector to sort out.  It's when the wind don't blow and the sun don't shine compared to most of the rest of the year (especially in the higher latitudes).  That's when nuclear and hydro (and geothermal if you're lucky) come into their own.

Spring time on the other hand is the opposite.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Autumn will continue be a problem for the Solar and Wind renewables sector to sort out.  It's when the wind don't blow and the sun don't shine compared to most of the rest of the year (especially in the higher latitudes).  That's when nuclear and hydro (and geothermal if you're lucky) come into their own.

Spring time on the other hand is the opposite.
Carnot
We have had a relatively cool autumn here - large, slow moving high pressure systems can happen at any time of the year as they recently found out in the UK.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
You're just an all-round ignoramus, Mike, admit it.

Ignoramus hey Question

Well todays the BIG day, as I wrote some weeks back today the Murdoch media officially embraces Climate change and Renewable energy through 'Mission Zero' Exclamation

This morning when I tuned into ABC Melbourne for the morning news we learned that the media empire the Representative from SA has supported and linked many wacky climate and renewable theories to has decided it's more profitable for Murdoch's bottom line to support climate change and renewable energy than to espouse its own theories through the fools, idiots and others who were able to use that platform for its crackpot theories.

Although I believe some of its staffers will still occasionally publish their flat Earth opinions.

So listen up Representative from SA...you have now been cast adrift and no doubt when you read the Adelaide Addy over your Corn Flakes this morning you'll have noticed the 16 page wrap around. So better late than never and for all the wrong reasons, read, absorb and consider your theories and the prospect of being further cast adrift into the realm of the nut cases.

Ignoramus hey Question

Mike.
The Vinelander
Nothing has changed at Murdoch's empire, Mike - it's an advertising feature. They were flogging it on the radio today as a lift-out in the Advertiser in an effort to try and sell ad space. You seriously think Andrew Bolt will stop railing against the climate change fairy-tale? You're even sillier than I give you credit for.

And anyway, even if Murdoch had genuinely changed his mind (which he hasn't) it still doesn't make any of this flying spaghetti monster rubbish the least bit true. A history of completely failed predictions from the 'experts', a complete lack of salient evidence, models that have failed to predict a single thing correctly. Even the Bureau of Meteorology, keen to please this 'progressive' belief, has been completely wrong - we were supposed to have more frequent cyclones further south as a result of your religion but instead they've become much less frequent. No apology for getting it wrong, no explanation.

It might be the current fad but it's still baseless - and mark my words, your facile religion will kill people this winter in the Northern Hemisphere.
  Graham4405 The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Dalby Qld
Autumn will continue be a problem for the Solar and Wind renewables sector to sort out.  It's when the wind don't blow and the sun don't shine compared to most of the rest of the year (especially in the higher latitudes).  That's when nuclear and hydro (and geothermal if you're lucky) come into their own.

Spring time on the other hand is the opposite.
We have had a relatively cool autumn here - large, slow moving high pressure systems can happen at any time of the year as they recently found out in the UK.
don_dunstan
Autumn is long over here, why are we talking about it now?
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Autumn will continue be a problem for the Solar and Wind renewables sector to sort out.  It's when the wind don't blow and the sun don't shine compared to most of the rest of the year (especially in the higher latitudes).  That's when nuclear and hydro (and geothermal if you're lucky) come into their own.

Spring time on the other hand is the opposite.
We have had a relatively cool autumn here - large, slow moving high pressure systems can happen at any time of the year as they recently found out in the UK.
Autumn is long over here, why are we talking about it now?
Graham4405
Oops, yeah I meant to say 'spring'. It only got to 17 degrees today, really pretty unseasonably cold for South Australia in October. It's supposed to be very wet and cold again later this week too.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: Standing at the limit of an endless ocean
Record natural gas prices in the UK - up another 40% again today to a new all time high - Energy Voice;

Global fuel shortages are disrupting natural gas markets from the UK to China, as economies emerge from the pandemic.

Surging costs are threatening to raise inflation and starting to weigh on industrial production, with some companies in Europe forced to cut output. Concerns over gas storage levels in Europe are building as winter approaches, helping drive prices ever higher.

“The fiercely nervous sentiment on the market continues due to fears of reduced supply during the winter,” trader Energi Danmark said Tuesday.

Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Tuesday there’s “hysteria and some confusion” on European energy markets amid reduced investments into fossil-fuel extraction, according to Interfax news agency.

Europe’s gas stockpiles are at their lowest seasonal level in more than a decade, with domestic production lagging behind demand, while supplies from top seller Russia are limited and global competition for liquefied natural gas continues to intensify.

The wind didn't blow this summer in the UK causing them to use all their supplies of natural gas - now they have almost none left. That's the fundamental cause of this crisis.
Reduced wind is a minor impact and only recently Minor impact.

Even Sky news doesn't label reduced wind to be the main cause, just another yet small straw.

https://news.sky.com/story/energy-crisis-why-gas-prices-have-soared-and-left-uk-facing-prospect-of-food-shortages-12412951
Wind in UK NORMALLY SUPPLIES 18% of the electricity.  For last three months only supplied 2% so shortfall of 16% of gross supply so definitely a big impact!
qredge
Wind in UK NORMALLY SUPPLIES 18% of the electricity averaged over 12 months.

There, I fixed it.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: Standing at the limit of an endless ocean
Autumn will continue be a problem for the Solar and Wind renewables sector to sort out.  It's when the wind don't blow and the sun don't shine compared to most of the rest of the year (especially in the higher latitudes).  That's when nuclear and hydro (and geothermal if you're lucky) come into their own.

Spring time on the other hand is the opposite.
We have had a relatively cool autumn here - large, slow moving high pressure systems can happen at any time of the year as they recently found out in the UK.
Autumn is long over here, why are we talking about it now?
Oops, yeah I meant to say 'spring'. It only got to 17 degrees today, really pretty unseasonably cold for South Australia in October. It's supposed to be very wet and cold again later this week too.
don_dunstan
This is a clear demonstration that your though processes are 180 Deg. out of whack.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Oops, yeah I meant to say 'spring'. It only got to 17 degrees today, really pretty unseasonably cold for South Australia in October. It's supposed to be very wet and cold again later this week too.
This is a clear demonstration that your though processes are 180 Deg. out of whack.
DirtyBallast
I was thinking about the UK when I wrote that - they're about to go into winter don't you know. Pray for the people who can't afford to heat their houses in Europe this winter thanks to the cult of global warming.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Speaking of the cold, winter is starting early this year in the northern hemisphere - the western United States has just experienced an influx of polar air and up to two feet of snow is possible across Wyoming, Montana, Idaho and Utah. There's already been heavy falls across Oregon and Washington State described as 'unprecedented and very early'.

Meanwhile there's also been extremely cold weather in Eastern Europe and the Balkans - must be that global warming that I've been hearing so much about.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

Silly comment Don. Temps are way above average in many other places. Ie. NE USA is very warm.

Global temp anomaly yesterday was 0.4c
Nth Hemi +0.9c
Sth Hemi -0.2c
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
You're just an all-round ignoramus, Mike, admit it.

Ignoramus hey Question

Well todays the BIG day, as I wrote some weeks back today the Murdoch media officially embraces Climate change and Renewable energy through 'Mission Zero' Exclamation

This morning when I tuned into ABC Melbourne for the morning news we learned that the media empire the Representative from SA has supported and linked many wacky climate and renewable theories to has decided it's more profitable for Murdoch's bottom line to support climate change and renewable energy than to espouse its own theories through the fools, idiots and others who were able to use that platform for its crackpot theories.

Although I believe some of its staffers will still occasionally publish their flat Earth opinions.

So listen up Representative from SA...you have now been cast adrift and no doubt when you read the Adelaide Addy over your Corn Flakes this morning you'll have noticed the 16 page wrap around. So better late than never and for all the wrong reasons, read, absorb and consider your theories and the prospect of being further cast adrift into the realm of the nut cases.

Ignoramus hey Question

Mike.
Nothing has changed at Murdoch's empire, Mike - it's an advertising feature. They were flogging it on the radio today as a lift-out in the Advertiser in an effort to try and sell ad space. You seriously think Andrew Bolt will stop railing against the climate change fairy-tale? You're even sillier than I give you credit for.

And anyway, even if Murdoch had genuinely changed his mind (which he hasn't) it still doesn't make any of this flying spaghetti monster rubbish the least bit true. A history of completely failed predictions from the 'experts', a complete lack of salient evidence, models that have failed to predict a single thing correctly. Even the Bureau of Meteorology, keen to please this 'progressive' belief, has been completely wrong - we were supposed to have more frequent cyclones further south as a result of your religion but instead they've become much less frequent. No apology for getting it wrong, no explanation.

It might be the current fad but it's still baseless - and mark my words, your facile religion will kill people this winter in the Northern Hemisphere.
don_dunstan

I realise it's difficult to tell, particularly with the pap that's published by the Murdoch media. IE., the blurring between news and advertising, but be rest assured what you thought was an 'advertising feature' is definitely the new policy direction of News Ltd papers. You'll notice going forward the anti-climate change and anti-renewable energy rants in your morning paper will be more pro rather than anti.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/news-corp-s-climate-campaign-is-a-political-development-with-impact-20211011-p58z21.html

As I mentioned in my above post, the more unhinged climate deniers like Andrew Blot will still be given their space to rant...as I'm sure RP will also do the same for you. But as the debate moves on, the contributions to the debate like Blot and the Representative from SA will continue to fade

Mark my words - In the unlikely event your prediction of frozen pensioners becomes a possibility, it's unlikely Boris will stand by and watch on as you hope and do nothing.

Mike.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
Speaking of the cold, winter is starting early this year in the northern hemisphere - the western United States has just experienced an influx of polar air and up to two feet of snow is possible across Wyoming, Montana, Idaho and Utah. There's already been heavy falls across Oregon and Washington State described as 'unprecedented and very early'.

Meanwhile there's also been extremely cold weather in Eastern Europe and the Balkans - must be that global warming that I've been hearing so much about.
don_dunstan

I could NOT find any evidence for this, not that I should have had to look as you, true to form didn't add any evidence to your wishful thinking.

M.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Silly comment Don. Temps are way above average in many other places. Ie. NE USA is very warm.

Global temp anomaly yesterday was 0.4c
Nth Hemi +0.9c
Sth Hemi -0.2c
Carnot
No, what you're supposed to say is something vague about seasonal variations not being an indicator of global warming - that standard greenie obfuscation explaining away the lack of evidence.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
I realise it's difficult to tell, particularly with the pap that's published by the Murdoch media. IE., the blurring between news and advertising, but be rest assured what you thought was an 'advertising feature' is definitely the new policy direction of News Ltd papers. You'll notice going forward the anti-climate change and anti-renewable energy rants in your morning paper will be more pro rather than anti.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/news-corp-s-climate-campaign-is-a-political-development-with-impact-20211011-p58z21.html

As I mentioned in my above post, the more unhinged climate deniers like Andrew Blot will still be given their space to rant...as I'm sure RP will also do the same for you. But as the debate moves on, the contributions to the debate like Blot and the Representative from SA will continue to fade

Mark my words - In the unlikely event your prediction of frozen pensioners becomes a possibility, it's unlikely Boris will stand by and watch on as you hope and do nothing.

Mike.
The Vinelander
Wow wee, Mike - you KNOW what Rupert is thinking and it's not a cynical ploy for advertiser dollars? That's some really amazing intuition you have there.

And Railpage is gong to ignore me eventually - says who? Why says you (of course). Sorry Mike but I always make time to post here about the stupid that is the cult of global warming. Because it's mainly about punishing and marginalising the poor even more than they already are - and I'm one of the very few people on this board who actually stands up for the poor despite the fact that I'm apparently further right than Hitler.

I don't "hope" that people are going to freeze to death - stop putting words into my mouth. Dishonest as well as dumb.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Speaking of the cold, winter is starting early this year in the northern hemisphere - the western United States has just experienced an influx of polar air and up to two feet of snow is possible across Wyoming, Montana, Idaho and Utah. There's already been heavy falls across Oregon and Washington State described as 'unprecedented and very early'.

Meanwhile there's also been extremely cold weather in Eastern Europe and the Balkans - must be that global warming that I've been hearing so much about.

I could NOT find any evidence for this, not that I should have had to look as you, true to form didn't add any evidence to your wishful thinking.

M.
The Vinelander
I don't put links in just because you ask for them - and you have to try using the INTERNET, Mike, not your 1975 Encyclopedia Brittanica.

From the US National Weather service yesterday:

Heavy snow and powerful winds in the Great Basin mountains, Rockies, and into the High Plains will create hazardous travel conditions. Strong winds will produce critical fire weather threats in portions of California and the Colorado Front Range. Severe storms developing in the Plains ahead of this front may have damaging winds, large hail, and a couple of tornadoes.

There's been freezing temperatures and lots of snow across the western half of the United States as far south as New Mexico - again, if you actually need me to link that stuff then perhaps you should employ the services of a research assistant who can actually use this interwebs machine. Because apparently you can't.
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
Prince Charles is almost as simple as you are, Mike. This morning he was on the ABC saying how wonderful he was for trying to reduce his carbon footprint by heating his mansions with 'biomass' - which is code for 'timber in the form of wood-chips'. Those wood-chips are usually harvested in places like Brazil or South East Asia from old growth forests that have had diesel powered machines harvest them before they're turned into chips, put on huge diesel powered bulk haulage ships that then sail halfway around the world so that they can burn causing heavy particulate pollution in the spot where they're consumed.

They're actually much less efficient and more carbon intensive (by the time you count all the diesel used in their production) than coal or gas, not to mention the fact that they're ruining old growth forests in remote parts of the world to make them. The Dutch were trying to convert coal-fired power plants to 'biomass' before they realised this and now they've given up on the whole idea - because it's patently ludicrous. Only a dimwit would think that they were saving the planet by burning wood shipped in from the developing world to heat their mansion.
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: Standing at the limit of an endless ocean
Speaking of the cold, winter is starting early this year in the northern hemisphere - the western United States has just experienced an influx of polar air and up to two feet of snow is possible across Wyoming, Montana, Idaho and Utah. There's already been heavy falls across Oregon and Washington State described as 'unprecedented and very early'.

Meanwhile there's also been extremely cold weather in Eastern Europe and the Balkans - must be that global warming that I've been hearing so much about.

I could NOT find any evidence for this, not that I should have had to look as you, true to form didn't add any evidence to your wishful thinking.

M.
I don't put links in just because you ask for them - and you have to try using the INTERNET, Mike, not your 1975 Encyclopedia Brittanica.

From the US National Weather service yesterday:

Heavy snow and powerful winds in the Great Basin mountains, Rockies, and into the High Plains will create hazardous travel conditions. Strong winds will produce critical fire weather threats in portions of California and the Colorado Front Range. Severe storms developing in the Plains ahead of this front may have damaging winds, large hail, and a couple of tornadoes.

There's been freezing temperatures and lots of snow across the western half of the United States as far south as New Mexico - again, if you actually need me to link that stuff then perhaps you should employ the services of a research assistant who can actually use this interwebs machine. Because apparently you can't.
don_dunstan
No, what you're supposed to say is something vague about seasonal variations not being an indicator of non-global warming - that standard flat-earther obfuscation explaining away the lack of evidence. Wink
  don_dunstan Dr Beeching

Location: Adelaide proud
No, what you're supposed to say is something vague about seasonal variations not being an indicator of non-global warming - that standard flat-earther obfuscation explaining away the lack of evidence. Wink
DirtyBallast
Nah a complete lack of evidence is the anthropogenic global warming conspiracy theory side - not the 'nothing is happening' camp.

Just like Mike you're happy to force the poor to pay more for everything because it doesn't affect you and your feelings of being a righteous prig.

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