Moonee Ponds Creek Trestle Bridge

 
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
'... You trespass, your problem. ... '
Absolutely.

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  simstrain Chief Commissioner


There is of course a solution.
As many people have the need to walk that path, then build a pedestrian bridge to enable that.
The fact it hasn't happened is a shame upon the local council.

@reubstar6 : Demand it, appear at the coroner, write the papers, bang on the MP door, general stink until they listen.
Only the locals can influence this one.

sigh
John
justarider
I would go one step further and build a new secondary bridge to take all the trains off this old girl and turn the old bridge into a pedestrian bridge.
  WimbledonW Chief Train Controller

Location: Sydney
I would go one step further and build a new secondary bridge to take all the trains off this old girl and turn the old bridge into a pedestrian bridge.
simstrain
Like the old and new rail bridges at Como and Meadowbank is Sydney?

Are there any rail speed limits on the old existing rail bridges which could be improved with a new rail bridge. Also any double track replacing the original single track Como bridge?
  historian Deputy Commissioner

The only thing I'd change is to prevent train crew getting sued by the trespassers or their relatives.
Madjikthise

I don't remember any cases of train drivers being sued by trespassers or their relatives.
  Fatty Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
The only thing I'd change is to prevent train crew getting sued by the trespassers or their relatives.

I don't remember any cases of train drivers being sued by trespassers or their relatives.
historian
There was a case in Brisbane a few years ago where a train driver sued the estate of someone who jumped in front of their train but I haven't ever heard of relatives suing a train driver.
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

The only thing I'd change is to prevent train crew getting sued by the trespassers or their relatives.

I don't remember any cases of train drivers being sued by trespassers or their relatives.
There was a case in Brisbane a few years ago where a train driver sued the estate of someone who jumped in front of their train but I haven't ever heard of relatives suing a train driver.
Fatty
Your Honour, I didn’t steer my train onto a pedestrian walkway.
Case dismissed.
  Lockspike Chief Commissioner

For ARTC to do so would be acknowledgement they knew of the high likelihood of trespass at that location, but failed to take reasonable steps to prevent it.
This argument is a bit circular. Surely the danger with the tressle is obvious.

Maybe some warning signs are needed.

Some information might be added to the Road Authority's (RMS in NSW) Driver's (& Pedestrians's) handbook to draw the attention of trespassers to the safety problem. Do this rather than having two separate books.
WimbledonW
Not saying I agree, but taken to court, this is likely how it would go
  simstrain Chief Commissioner

Like the old and new rail bridges at Como and Meadowbank is Sydney?

Are there any rail speed limits on the old existing rail bridges which could be improved with a new rail bridge. Also any double track replacing the original single track Como bridge?
WimbledonW

Yes exactly like that. I was thinking more for the weight since the inland is being designed with double stacking in mind and so that was what I was thinking.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
This bridge is a steel trestle double tracked (1 x SG and 1 x DG) around 330 metres long, about 30 metres high (from Google Earth) and runs almost east - west. It is decked and ballasted with regular refuges on both sides along its length.

The bridge is ~90 years old, during which time is has carried such locomotives as H 220.  It spans the pleasantly landscaped valley of the Moonee Ponds Creek which contains two shared bicycle and walking paths plus the creek.

I can see no need or use for the bridge as a pedestrian or trespasser thoroughfare. It comes from nowhere and goes nowhere for these purposes and there are perfectly good concrete walking paths east - west across the valley.

Here, again, we are proposing solutions to a problem which does not exist for sensible people.
  reubstar6 Chief Train Controller

This bridge is a steel trestle double tracked (1 x SG and 1 x DG) around 330 metres long, about 30 metres high (from Google Earth) and runs almost east - west. It is decked and ballasted with regular refuges on both sides along its length. The bridge is ~90 years old, during which time is has carried such locomotives as H 220. It spans the pleasantly landscaped valley of the Moonee Ponds Creek which contains two shared bicycle and walking paths plus the creek. I can see no need or use for the bridge as a pedestrian or trespasser thoroughfare. It comes from nowhere and goes nowhere for these purposes and there are perfectly good concrete walking paths east - west across the valley. Here, again, we are proposing solutions to a problem which does not exist for sensible people.
Y-M-Mundrabilla

Agreed. A second pedestrian bridge wouldn't achieve anything, as the appeal is the danger rather than the need to cross the valley.

Something does need to be done though, even if it's just installing a flashing light at one end when a train is coming.
  RustyRick Chief Commissioner

Location: South West Vic
If there are pedestrian refuges along the bridge, why not just have the driver hit the horn on the approach and mid span?
  BigShunter Chief Commissioner

Location: St Clair. S.A.
If there are pedestrian refuges along the bridge, why not just have the driver hit the horn on the approach and mid span?
RustyRick
Had thought the same RR regarding blasting the horn for a km before the bridge but then a whole heaps of kids yelling and screeching a windy day, are they really going to be listening for an on coming train horn.

At what point do you just throw ya hands in the air and except you cannot keep trying to save people from them selves.

Do train horns run on the same supply of air as the brakes ? as in if you did blast the horn for a kilometer before the bridge, would you have runout of air for the brakes anyway.

I suppose it's no different to railway crossing's were people like to ram their cars into trains or the path of Rolling Eyes

BigShunter.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
If there are pedestrian refuges along the bridge, why not just have the driver hit the horn on the approach and mid span?
"RustyRick"
I have no doubt that any driver seeing people on the bridge would automatically sound the whistle/horn anyway.
  RustyRick Chief Commissioner

Location: South West Vic
If there are pedestrian refuges along the bridge, why not just have the driver hit the horn on the approach and mid span?
I have no doubt that any driver seeing people on the bridge would automatically sound the whistle/horn anyway.
Valvegear
True, but treat it like a crossing. Not all drivers would expect to see people there.

Edit - I agree you can't protect idiots from themselves, but it's an easier option than installing lights, sirens or armed guards on the structure.
  Fatty Deputy Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
Do train horns run on the same supply of air as the brakes ? as in if you did blast the horn for a kilometer before the bridge, would you have runout of air for the brakes anyway.
BigShunter
Yes they do but you'd have to have some serious issues if the compressor couldn't keep up with the horn!
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
At the end of the day why or how is this bridge/section of track any different from any/every other bridge or length of track?
If you don't want to get run over don't trespass on the railway reservation.
  RustyRick Chief Commissioner

Location: South West Vic
At the end of the day why or how is this bridge/section of track any different from any/every other bridge or length of track?
If you don't want to get run over don't trespass on the railway reservation.
YM-Mundrabilla
That is true, but it seems that this particular bridge attracts more than its fair share of numbskulls.
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
True, but treat it like a crossing. Not all drivers would expect to see people there.
"RustyRick"
Oh come on! Drivers, whether they be on road or rail have to be alert for the unexpected; that is elementary. If you're not ready for the unexpected I sincerely hope you don't drive a car.
  oldfogey Beginner

This thread prompted me to sign up after many years of reading. I actually checked the maps and the bridge supplies a short cut, 500m vs around 2km, for people wanting to get from one suburb to the SW of the river to another on the NE side and vice versa. It also supplies access to a shopping centre on the NE side about 1km from the suburb on the SW side versus about 2km to the nearest shopping centre on the SW side. Maybe this explains some of the trespassing,  although it does not excuse it. It is still stupid.
  oldfogey Beginner

This thread prompted me to sign up after many years of reading. I actually checked the maps and the bridge supplies a short cut, 500m vs around 2km, for people wanting to get from one suburb to the SW of the river to another on the NE side and vice versa. It also supplies access to a shopping centre on the NE side about 1km from the suburb on the SW side versus about 2km to the nearest shopping centre on the SW side. Maybe this explains some of the trespassing,  although it does not excuse it. It is still stupid.
  WimbledonW Chief Train Controller

Location: Sydney


A train killed 3 migrants lying on the tracks near the Spanish-French border at Hendaye.

"Spectator 16 Oct 2021 pg 4"


Amongst other things, were the warning signs (if any) written in languages other than Spanish?
  Valvegear Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Richmond Vic
Amongst other things, were the warning signs (if any) written in languages other than Spanish?
"WimbledonW"
What would you have on the sign?  "Do not lie on the tracks"?  As Einstein said, the only difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
Try as one might to make something idiot proof failure is inevitable as they keep making bigger idiots all the time.
  raudteejaam Train Controller

This thread prompted me to sign up after many years of reading. I actually checked the maps and the bridge supplies a short cut, 500m vs around 2km, for people wanting to get from one suburb to the SW of the river to another on the NE side and vice versa. It also supplies access to a shopping centre on the NE side about 1km from the suburb on the SW side versus about 2km to the nearest shopping centre on the SW side. Maybe this explains some of the trespassing,  although it does not excuse it. It is still stupid.
oldfogey
Are we looking at the same bridge and map? I can see a pedestrian bridge 200m north running between roughly Adelaide Blvd and Outlook Drive. Crossing the trestle would save, what, 5 mins?
  oldfogey Beginner

My bad. I was looking at the more famous trestle over the Maribynong River. Should have triple checked.

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