The 'renewable' energy thread -

 
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
When old Henry built his first truck a 100 years ago, where will I get fuel for it, it wont go from Melbourne to Sydney,last reports I heard Ford were still going and Cobb&Co aren't.Ford are even moving to electric cars,fancy that

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  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
Also, I'm not in the market for a truck, so I dont care where or how it gets charged, but an electric car on the other hand.... so go and have a little sook
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
Actually Don, at the present time my priorities are a bit different, I'm looking into having cosmetic surgery to make me look more like Linda Rondstadt, I've nearly mastered the voice....
wobert
I've always pictured you as more of a Cher.
So a company that is valued at more than a trillion dollars, is all based on hype. Really..... Don said something similar a couple of years ago, and it's probably doubled since then. All based on hype.... whatever happens to Tesla in the future is anyones guess, but based on just hype bbwwwwwaaaaaaaa you are a moron.
wobert
Just because it's still popping along okay and people have put lots of money into it is meaningless in this day and age. Part of the problem we've been facing in the last 30 years or so is the global capital searching for returns is sloshing around the globe and there's literally trillions of dollars looking for dividends - $2 trillion in Australian superannuation alone. Even during the pandemic the Dow Jones and the ASX have been regularly hitting record highs - because the amount of capital continuing to slosh into the share markets of western nations has never slowed down.

Doesn't mean that it's a healthy market, doesn't mean that there won't be a crash around the corner. The value of the ASX (for example) might be at a record high in the mid-7000's at the moment but the returns that investors are getting from share dividends are comparatively really low - that's part of the reason why residential property rocketed up 20% in many capital cities last year - investors looking for returns outside of the relatively poorly performing ASX (despite the record highs on paper). Trillions of capital in desperate need of returns.

So back to Tesla - you have a company that is now worth more than three times the value of Toyota at $280,000,000,000 and yet they don't make nearly as many cars as Toyota. Each car that Tesla sells represents $2 million dollars of market value of the company - so it's not going to get anything like the return needed to make proper dividend payments to shareholders - probably not ever at this rate. The people putting money into it are speculating that at some stage in the future that will change because of the 'vibe' around it.

That's your classic irrational exuberance right there; as Aaron said it's never come close to delivering half the things that have been promised to the public like the 'light truck' and 'heavy truck'. And as I've pointed out repeatedly the 'self-driving' feature is still a dud many years after Elon promised hopeful buyers that it would happen, I'm astonished that Tesla hasn't been sued into the ground over just that failure alone.

Don't get me wrong, I really like Elon Musk in comparison to his peers - he's all up for challenging existing paradigms and he proudly paid half a billion dollars in tax recently rather than trying to dodge it - still nowhere near what he should have been paying on a $14 billion capital gain but then a lot more than other billionaires and their chronic avoidance of tax. Telsa is ultimately a disaster in the making though - they've already sailed close to bankruptcy a few times in the last ten years and even Musk's bravado probably won't be able to save it if there's a sustained run on the Dow Jones in the future.
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
Back to 'renewable' energy - Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon says that she's doing the right thing stopping the development of new oil and gas fields in the North Sea - but then in the same breath is whinging about the extreme cost of energy to Scottish households. From the BBC;

The proposed Cambo oil field off Shetland "should not get the green light", Nicola Sturgeon has said.

The first minister had previously called for the controversial new development to be reassessed, but had stopped short of opposing it outright.

However she has now told MSPs that "the presumption would be that Cambo could not and should not pass any rigorous climate assessment".

But here she is only a few months ago complaining about the extremely high cost of gas to Scottish people - The National;

Nicola Sturgeon said she has concerns about the “significant impact” gas price hikes may have on domestic consumers, particularly when some of the poorest families in the country will see their benefits cut.

She will be chairing a meeting of the Scottish Government committee later today to discuss the issues.

The energy price cap is set to rise by £139 a year (12%) to £1277 for a typical gas and electricity customer from October 1, while the UK Government’s “uplift” in Universal Credit, intended as a temporary measure during the coronavirus pandemic, ends on October 6. Some estimations say up to 800,000 people could be pushed into poverty.

Is she really that dumb that she doesn't see the connection between the rising cost of natural gas - which still largely needs to be imported by the UK if it doesn't come from that domestic field in the North Sea which she is personally trying to stop - and the fact that Scottish households are finding the stuff unaffordable?
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
The thing is Don, its not what you or I think what Tesla is worth, its the market. Investors, either institutions or individual investors have valued it at whatever the share price is at any given time.


I think Cher might be travelling a bit better than poor old Linda these days.
  safeworking Station Master

Location: Bungendore
Elon Musk is a Ponzi Scheme.

That he says something technical, is basically how I and most other technical/engineering people know it’s smeg without need for investigation.

Seen a Tesla Semi on the road?

Seen a Tesla self drive on an open road?

Seen a Tesla self drive on a closed controlled road?

Seen a train on an air hockey table in a vacuum tube? - Just have a quick think of what a vacuum tube with a flowing gas in it is…

Seen a Tesla solar roof?

All while driving the most over valued car manufacturing company in history.
Aaron
First of all, I must apologise for starting a flame war between participants on this thread.Personally, Find that insulting anybody is  First rate way of stopping a rational discussion of the facts.

Now to the questions raised.

There are two apparent reasons (ie not officially announced) why we have not seen a Tesla Semi on the road. First, the semi is to be produced at Gigafactory Austin Texas which has yet to enter full production even though it appears to be producing at least partially completed model Y cars. The second is that it will use the 4680 cylindrical battery cell which is some months away from production, also at Austin Texas. What has been seen on drone footage is an apparent production model semi doing test laps around the factory. It is different to prototype initially shown.  

Tesla is not the only company working on a self-drive concept.  Even so, most commentators are saying that any fully developed self-driving ability is some years away for any of the systems and there are no bets on who will be first.

The train in a vacuum tube idea is just that and I have not seen news of a move to demonstrate its feasibility nor financial viability.

There is general agreement that Tesla stocks are currently over-valued. That said they are not Ponzi scheme levels as Tesla is selling every vehicle it can produce, and is raising its vehicle prices just because in this market it can. On the production side, Gigafactoties Austin and Berlin are yet to come on-line, Shanghai is producing for the Chinese and European markets while being further expanded. Unlike in Europe, the Chinese erect large factories in months, not years.  This is a huge hurdle for manufacturing in Europe and the US.

The real elephant in the room with Tesla is the speed of its vehicle production. A few months ago the CEO of the Volkswagen Group addressed his senior management team and revealed that Volkswagen takes 30 hours to produce an electric vehicle while Tesla takes just 10 hours. Volkswagen is seriously worried about the capabilities of both Tesla and many of the Chinese electric vehicle companies and sees them as its major competitors for the European car market. Tesla meanwhile has entered into battery supply contracts with CATL (world's biggest battery supplier),BYD (world's 2nd biggest battery supplier and LG Chem, on top of their existing contract with Panasonic and their in-house battery production. Panasonic is currently setting up a production line for the 4680 battery and this will possibly apply to other battery manufacturers also. Note, CATL is currently building a battery factory jest down the road from Gigafactory Shanghai and has plans for a US factory. BYD is building 4
new factories in China and already has one in the US.  A major shareholder in BYD, for a number of years, is Warren Buffett, well known on this site for owning BNSF.
  safeworking Station Master

Location: Bungendore
Elon Musk is a Ponzi Scheme.

That he says something technical, is basically how I and most other technical/engineering people know it’s smeg without need for investigation.

Seen a Tesla Semi on the road?

Seen a Tesla self drive on an open road?

Seen a Tesla self drive on a closed controlled road?

Seen a train on an air hockey table in a vacuum tube? - Just have a quick think of what a vacuum tube with a flowing gas in it is…

Seen a Tesla solar roof?

All while driving the most over valued car manufacturing company in history.
Aaron
First of all, I must apologise for starting a flame war between participants on this thread.Personally, Find that insulting anybody is  First rate way of stopping a rational discussion of the facts.

Now to the questions raised.

There are two apparent reasons (ie not officially announced) why we have not seen a Tesla Semi on the road. First, the semi is to be produced at Gigafactory Austin Texas which has yet to enter full production even though it appears to be producing at least partially completed model Y cars. The second is that it will use the 4680 cylindrical battery cell which is some months away from production, also at Austin Texas. What has been seen on drone footage is an apparent production model semi doing test laps around the factory. It is different to prototype initially shown.  

Tesla is not the only company working on a self-drive concept.  Even so, most commentators are saying that any fully developed self-driving ability is some years away for any of the systems and there are no bets on who will be first.

The train in a vacuum tube idea is just that and I have not seen news of a move to demonstrate its feasibility nor financial viability.

There is general agreement that Tesla stocks are currently over-valued. That said they are not Ponzi scheme levels as Tesla is selling every vehicle it can produce, and is raising its vehicle prices just because in this market it can. On the production side, Gigafactoties Austin and Berlin are yet to come on-line, Shanghai is producing for the Chinese and European markets while being further expanded. Unlike in Europe, the Chinese erect large factories in months, not years.  This is a huge hurdle for manufacturing in Europe and the US.

The real elephant in the room with Tesla is the speed of its vehicle production. A few months ago the CEO of the Volkswagen Group addressed his senior management team and revealed that Volkswagen takes 30 hours to produce an electric vehicle while Tesla takes just 10 hours. Volkswagen is seriously worried about the capabilities of both Tesla and many of the Chinese electric vehicle companies and sees them as its major competitors for the European car market. Tesla meanwhile has entered into battery supply contracts with CATL (world's biggest battery supplier),BYD (world's 2nd biggest battery supplier and LG Chem, on top of their existing contract with Panasonic and their in-house battery production. Panasonic is currently setting up a production line for the 4680 battery and this will possibly apply to other battery manufacturers also. Note, CATL is currently building a battery factory jest down the road from Gigafactory Shanghai and has plans for a US factory. BYD is building 4
new factories in China and already has one in the US.  A major shareholder in BYD, for a number of years, is Warren Buffett, well known on this site for owning BNSF.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
Costs of climate change in 2021.
Although we may expect an ill-informed, alternative opinion from some in these pages.

chrome-distiller://c51fa131-73ef-4934-be90-20772b2ecfa0_040602ce91a1dc4003f923a99b351e69c52580b328a41d51456e33e115e13a58/?title=Ten+worst+disasters+cost+%24235b+-+The+Age+Digital+Edition%2C+12%2F28%2F2021&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftodayspaper.smedia.com.au%2Ftheage%2FTranslateArticle.aspx%3Fdoc%3DAGE%252F2021%252F12%252F28%26entity%3Dar02000

Mike
Not only does this link not work (because it isn't actually a link) but you've posted it twice.
It is a link, but not one that RP can handle. It's a Google Chrome Reader Mode link apparently.
Graham4405

Thanks for the heads up Graham. I post another link to the same story below:

https://www.afr.com/policy/energy-and-climate/the-cost-of-2021-s-10-worst-climate-disasters-u170b-20211227-p59kbn

M.
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
Tesla is not the only company working on a self-drive concept.  Even so, most commentators are saying that any fully developed self-driving ability is some years away for any of the systems and there are no bets on who will be first.
safeworking
But you've missed the point on that entirely - they've been selling the full self-driving feature for quite a while now where for an extra 'subscription' your car is supposed to be able to:
  • Navigate on Autopilot
  • Auto Lane Change
  • Autopark
  • Summon
  • Full Self-Driving Computer
  • Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control
Unfortunately it doesn't do any of those things - 'summon' is supposedly where you press a button on your keychain fob and in theory your Tesla can drive itself from where-ever it is to your location and pick you up.

It definitely doesn't do that; and its not authorised to do that. In fact there's almost nothing on that list that the car can do WITHOUT a supervising, licensed driver - still - despite the fact that the Tesla marketing says that it can definitely do that.

Another word for that kind of blatantly deceptive marketing is a LIE.
  Madjikthise Deputy Commissioner

I don't get the general hate towards Musk. Sure, some of what he says is completely nuts at times, but he busted two of the most stagnant fields of development in a very short time. Automotive manufacturers were dragged kicking and screaming to even look at EVs while lobbying governments to make it harder for Tesla to sell cars, and NASA was busy taking 4 years to test a zero-g hair band while Space-X went from crashing rockets on the pad to landing them in tandem after delivering payloads. Who cares if his vacuum tunnel idea works or not, at least he's trying something different. And if one of his stupid ideas pays off then things may end up better for a lot of people, while corporations set in stone sit on the sidelines mumbling something about the old days.

Actually now I do get the hate, he's trying different things to the accepted norm. I see this kind of thing at work, we can't possibly change anything because "it's always been done this way".
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
Secret Pentagon report warns of climate change catastrophes that will result in famine and wars - The Guardian;

Climate change over the next 20 years could result in a global catastrophe costing millions of lives in wars and natural disasters..

A secret report, suppressed by US defence chiefs and obtained by The Observer, warns that major European cities will be sunk beneath rising seas as Britain is plunged into a ‘Siberian’ climate by 2020. Nuclear conflict, mega-droughts, famine and widespread rioting will erupt across the world.

The document predicts that abrupt climate change could bring the planet to the edge of anarchy as countries develop a nuclear threat to defend and secure dwindling food, water and energy supplies. The threat to global stability vastly eclipses that of terrorism, say the few experts privy to its contents.

‘Disruption and conflict will be endemic features of life,’ concludes the Pentagon analysis. ‘Once again, warfare would define human life.’

The findings will prove humiliating to the Bush administration, which has repeatedly denied that climate change even exists. Experts said that they will also make unsettling reading for a President who has insisted national defence is a priority...

...An imminent scenario of catastrophic climate change is ‘plausible and would challenge United States national security in ways that should be considered immediately’, they conclude. As early as next year widespread flooding by a rise in sea levels will create major upheaval for millions.

Senior climatologists, however, believe that their verdicts could prove the catalyst in forcing Bush to accept climate change as a real and happening phenomenon. They also hope it will convince the United States to sign up to global treaties to reduce the rate of climatic change.

Yeah that's right - it's 2021 and tens of millions of people have been displaced because of sea level rises on account of climate change. Britain's climate is 'Siberian', we have mega-droughts and dwindling food, water and energy supplies. Well the energy supply thing is real but only because of the stupid rush to renewables. Anyway there was no shortage of experts lining up at the time of this secret report (this article was from 2004 if you haven't already worked it out) -

Bob Watson, chief scientist for the World Bank and former chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, added that the Pentagon’s dire warnings could no longer be ignored.

‘Can Bush ignore the Pentagon? It’s going be hard to blow off this sort of document. Its hugely embarrassing. After all, Bush’s single highest priority is national defence. The Pentagon is no wacko, liberal group, generally speaking it is conservative. If climate change is a threat to national security and the economy, then he has to act. There are two groups the Bush Administration tend to listen to, the oil lobby and the Pentagon,’ added Watson.

‘You’ve got a President who says global warming is a hoax, and across the Potomac river you’ve got a Pentagon preparing for climate wars. It’s pretty scary when Bush starts to ignore his own government on this issue,’ said Rob Gueterbock of Greenpeace...

All these disasters were going to happen any moment now:

...An imminent scenario of catastrophic climate change is ‘plausible and would challenge United States national security in ways that should be considered immediately’, they conclude. As early as next year widespread flooding by a rise in sea levels will create major upheaval for millions.

Last week the Bush administration came under heavy fire from a large body of respected scientists who claimed that it cherry-picked science to suit its policy agenda and suppressed studies that it did not like. Jeremy Symons, a former whistleblower at the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), said that suppression of the report for four months was a further example of the White House trying to bury the threat of climate change.

Senior climatologists, however, believe that their verdicts could prove the catalyst in forcing Bush to accept climate change as a real and happening phenomenon. They also hope it will convince the United States to sign up to global treaties to reduce the rate of climatic change.

A group of eminent UK scientists recently visited the White House to voice their fears over global warming, part of an intensifying drive to get the US to treat the issue seriously. Sources have told The Observer that American officials appeared extremely sensitive about the issue when faced with complaints that America’s public stance appeared increasingly out of touch.

One even alleged that the White House had written to complain about some of the comments attributed to Professor Sir David King, Tony Blair’s chief scientific adviser, after he branded the President’s position on the issue as indefensible.

This was all from 18 years ago and yet nothing has changed - we're still about drown, burn or starve. Any moment now. If you can't smell the bullsh*t around 'climate change' by now then frankly there's no hope for you.
  wobert Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
Your last sentence really hits the nail on the h     hang on, screws the tek  into the roof. Some of these people  must have really lost their pooh when the button up fly was replaced by a zip. Velcro probably seems alien.


Replying to Madjikthise
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
Automotive manufacturers were dragged kicking and screaming to even look at EVs while lobbying governments to make it harder for Tesla to sell cars...
Madjikthise
That simply isn't true, Obama bought in a direct subsidy for every single electric car sold of $7,500 in 2008 and they've been directly subsidised ever since; Tesla has been excellent at harvesting these direct and indirect subsidies which is part of the reason why they're so successful. Even here in South Australia our state government gifts $3,000 directly the purchase price of an electric vehicle but given the very cheapest plug-in electric car is $45,000 (MG ZS) it doesn't make a whole lot of difference.

Behind every 'success story' there's often some kind of corporate welfare program.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line

One even alleged that the White House had written to complain about some of the comments attributed to Professor Sir David King, Tony Blair’s chief scientific adviser, after he branded the President’s position on the issue as indefensible.

This was all from 18 years ago and yet nothing has changed - we're still about drown, burn or starve. Any moment now. If you can't smell the bullsh*t around 'climate change' by now then frankly there's no hope for you.
don_dunstan

How quickly we, well some of us forget. Smile

Two catastrophic Summers in the past 10 years in eastern Australia and in particular Victoria, commencing in September. We had bushfires raging and desparately needed water bombers before North America had finished their extended fire season.

Arctic ice melting so fast in Summer that new shipping lanes have been created where formerly they were impossible.

Extreme temperatures last year and up to 48c in Canada.

https://www.republicworld.com/world-news/rest-of-the-world-news/canada-witnesses-record-breaking-heatwave-as-temperature-touches-47-dot-9c-schools-shut.html

The imposter from SA doesn't believe in climate change, so there's nothing to see here...move along folks.

Mike.
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
How quickly we, well some of us forget. Smile

Two catastrophic Summers in the past 10 years in eastern Australia and in particular Victoria, commencing in September. We had bushfires raging and desparately needed water bombers before North America had finished their extended fire season.

Arctic ice melting so fast in Summer that new shipping lanes have been created where formerly they were impossible.

Extreme temperatures last year and up to 48c in Canada.

https://www.republicworld.com/world-news/rest-of-the-world-news/canada-witnesses-record-breaking-heatwave-as-temperature-touches-47-dot-9c-schools-shut.html

The imposter from SA doesn't believe in climate change, so there's nothing to see here...move along folks.

Mike.
The Vinelander
Records only go back 150 years or so, Mike - you seriously think that's never happened before?

Was Black Friday in 1939 due to climate change?

What about the biggest ever recorded bushfires on the Australian continent in the 1850's - were they due to climate change?

Your ignorance is astounding - you completely ignore the tome of failed predictions from 18 years ago to point to minor things happening now and say that's evidence somehow of the alarmist rubbish that you've subscribed to.

Riddle me this: Why did they get it so very wrong 18 years ago?
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
Extreme temperatures last year and up to 48c in Canada.
The Vinelander
Extreme temperatures at the moment in Canada at the moment, record-breaking cold in Alberta where the temperature has dropped to as low as -42c at Edmonton International Airport, freezing up wind turbines and almost crashing the power grid.

Climate change, Mike? Or does that only happen in the event of extreme heat...
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Serious question, and not in the wrong forum, just lacking contact at the moment.

How long does biological evolution, in something that might only successfully reproduce every few years, take?
  apw5910 Chief Commissioner

Location: Location: Location.
Serious question, and not in the wrong forum, just lacking contact at the moment.

How long does biological evolution, in something that might only successfully reproduce every few years, take?
Aaron
For an original species to split into to two separate species who cannot interbreed successfully? At least 100,000 years, probably a lot more.
  Madjikthise Deputy Commissioner

Automotive manufacturers were dragged kicking and screaming to even look at EVs while lobbying governments to make it harder for Tesla to sell cars...
That simply isn't true, Obama bought in a direct subsidy for every single electric car sold of $7,500 in 2008 and they've been directly subsidised ever since; Tesla has been excellent at harvesting these direct and indirect subsidies which is part of the reason why they're so successful. Even here in South Australia our state government gifts $3,000 directly the purchase price of an electric vehicle but given the very cheapest plug-in electric car is $45,000 (MG ZS) it doesn't make a whole lot of difference.

Behind every 'success story' there's often some kind of corporate welfare program.
don_dunstan
There are about 10 states in the US where Tesla is not allowed to sell directly to customers and must operate through independent dealerships by law, most others have restrictions. Tesla has been sued by other dealership associations for trying to operate on its own. The law was originally intended to prevent manufacturers selling directly and undercutting independents, but Tesla didn't even have any to undercut.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
How quickly we, well some of us forget. Smile

Two catastrophic Summers in the past 10 years in eastern Australia and in particular Victoria, commencing in September. We had bushfires raging and desparately needed water bombers before North America had finished their extended fire season.

Arctic ice melting so fast in Summer that new shipping lanes have been created where formerly they were impossible.

Extreme temperatures last year and up to 48c in Canada.

https://www.republicworld.com/world-news/rest-of-the-world-news/canada-witnesses-record-breaking-heatwave-as-temperature-touches-47-dot-9c-schools-shut.html

The imposter from SA doesn't believe in climate change, so there's nothing to see here...move along folks.

Mike.
Records only go back 150 years or so, Mike - you seriously think that's never happened before?

Was Black Friday in 1939 due to climate change?

What about the biggest ever recorded bushfires on the Australian continent in the 1850's - were they due to climate change?

Your ignorance is astounding - you completely ignore the tome of failed predictions from 18 years ago to point to minor things happening now and say that's evidence somehow of the alarmist rubbish that you've subscribed to.

Riddle me this: Why did they get it so very wrong 18 years ago?
don_dunstan

There are so many ways to refute your lame reply, but I'm not going to as you have already stated you are a climate change denier. The evidence is documented for all including the blind to see and your red herrings don't cut the mustard.

M.
  arctic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Zurich
Automotive manufacturers were dragged kicking and screaming to even look at EVs while lobbying governments to make it harder for Tesla to sell cars...
That simply isn't true, Obama bought in a direct subsidy for every single electric car sold of $7,500 in 2008 and they've been directly subsidised ever since; Tesla has been excellent at harvesting these direct and indirect subsidies which is part of the reason why they're so successful. Even here in South Australia our state government gifts $3,000 directly the purchase price of an electric vehicle but given the very cheapest plug-in electric car is $45,000 (MG ZS) it doesn't make a whole lot of difference.

Behind every 'success story' there's often some kind of corporate welfare program.
don_dunstan
Apparently this $7500 subsidy finished for Tesla some time ago:

"Since 2010 US car buyers can get a $7,500 tax credit for buying a new plug-in electric vehicle, but that credit phases out once a manufacturer has sold 200,000 vehicles—a threshold Tesla passed in 2018"
link
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
There are so many ways to refute your lame reply, but I'm not going to as you have already stated you are a climate change denier. The evidence is documented for all including the blind to see and your red herrings don't cut the mustard.

M.
The Vinelander
Cliche salad - yay, I was hungry.
Apparently this $7500 subsidy finished for Tesla some time ago: "Since 2010 US car buyers can get a $7,500 tax credit for buying a new plug-in electric vehicle, but that credit phases out once a manufacturer has sold 200,000 vehicles—a threshold Tesla passed in 2018" link
arctic
I'm pretty sure they didn't scrap it in 2018 - only because Musk himself was complaining a few weeks ago that he didn't want anyone (including Tesla) to get it any more - CNN 7/12/2021;

Elon Musk has described electric cars as critical to fighting climate change, which he's said he believes could cause more displacement and destruction than all the wars in history combined. So you might think he'd support the federal government funding electric vehicle charging stations.

But that's not the case, at least right now. A sometimes combative Musk spoke at the Wall Street Journal's CEO Summit Monday and suggested scrapping the Biden infrastructure package. Musk said that Tesla didn't need the $7,500 tax credit for electric vehicles, which provides a tax credit of up to that amount to individuals purchasing plug-in electric vehicles, to drive demand for its vehicles. He also called federal support for charging infrastructure unnecessary.

Elon is no shirker when it comes to corporate welfare, Tesla has had lots of hand-outs since they began selling cars but the problem is that GM and Ford are ramping up production and can get the same money for their own electric cars built in the USA and - surprise! Elon doesn't want them to get it after having reaped ten years of that subsidy himself.

Build Back Better (which hasn't passed the Senate yet) is proposing to up it to $10,000 - if it doesn't pass it may yet remain at $7,500 for Tesla but if it does Ford and GM might get $12,500 because they have unionised workforces which for some reason means they'll get more subsidies. Which in turn explains Elon's hissy fit about the lower subsidy for his non-union workforce.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
There are so many ways to refute your lame reply, but I'm not going to as you have already stated you are a climate change denier. The evidence is documented for all including the blind to see and your red herrings don't cut the mustard.

M.
Cliche salad - yay, I was hungry.
Apparently this $7500 subsidy finished for Tesla some time ago: "Since 2010 US car buyers can get a $7,500 tax credit for buying a new plug-in electric vehicle, but that credit phases out once a manufacturer has sold 200,000 vehicles—a threshold Tesla passed in 2018" link
I'm pretty sure they didn't scrap it in 2018 - only because Musk himself was complaining a few weeks ago that he didn't want anyone (including Tesla) to get it any more - CNN 7/12/2021;

Elon Musk has described electric cars as critical to fighting climate change, which he's said he believes could cause more displacement and destruction than all the wars in history combined. So you might think he'd support the federal government funding electric vehicle charging stations.

But that's not the case, at least right now. A sometimes combative Musk spoke at the Wall Street Journal's CEO Summit Monday and suggested scrapping the Biden infrastructure package. Musk said that Tesla didn't need the $7,500 tax credit for electric vehicles, which provides a tax credit of up to that amount to individuals purchasing plug-in electric vehicles, to drive demand for its vehicles. He also called federal support for charging infrastructure unnecessary.

Elon is no shirker when it comes to corporate welfare, Tesla has had lots of hand-outs since they began selling cars but the problem is that GM and Ford are ramping up production and can get the same money for their own electric cars built in the USA and - surprise! Elon doesn't want them to get it after having reaped ten years of that subsidy himself.

Build Back Better (which hasn't passed the Senate yet) is proposing to up it to $10,000 - if it doesn't pass it may yet remain at $7,500 for Tesla but if it does Ford and GM might get $12,500 because they have unionised workforces which for some reason means they'll get more subsidies. Which in turn explains Elon's hissy fit about the lower subsidy for his non-union workforce.
don_dunstan
Let’s not forget Elon gleefully accepted a USD1.6 BILLION bailout for SpaceX…
  arctic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Zurich
There are so many ways to refute your lame reply, but I'm not going to as you have already stated you are a climate change denier. The evidence is documented for all including the blind to see and your red herrings don't cut the mustard.

M.
Cliche salad - yay, I was hungry.
Apparently this $7500 subsidy finished for Tesla some time ago: "Since 2010 US car buyers can get a $7,500 tax credit for buying a new plug-in electric vehicle, but that credit phases out once a manufacturer has sold 200,000 vehicles—a threshold Tesla passed in 2018" link
I'm pretty sure they didn't scrap it in 2018 - only because Musk himself was complaining a few weeks ago that he didn't want anyone (including Tesla) to get it any more - CNN 7/12/2021;

Elon Musk has described electric cars as critical to fighting climate change, which he's said he believes could cause more displacement and destruction than all the wars in history combined. So you might think he'd support the federal government funding electric vehicle charging stations.

But that's not the case, at least right now. A sometimes combative Musk spoke at the Wall Street Journal's CEO Summit Monday and suggested scrapping the Biden infrastructure package. Musk said that Tesla didn't need the $7,500 tax credit for electric vehicles, which provides a tax credit of up to that amount to individuals purchasing plug-in electric vehicles, to drive demand for its vehicles. He also called federal support for charging infrastructure unnecessary.

Elon is no shirker when it comes to corporate welfare, Tesla has had lots of hand-outs since they began selling cars but the problem is that GM and Ford are ramping up production and can get the same money for their own electric cars built in the USA and - surprise! Elon doesn't want them to get it after having reaped ten years of that subsidy himself.

Build Back Better (which hasn't passed the Senate yet) is proposing to up it to $10,000 - if it doesn't pass it may yet remain at $7,500 for Tesla but if it does Ford and GM might get $12,500 because they have unionised workforces which for some reason means they'll get more subsidies. Which in turn explains Elon's hissy fit about the lower subsidy for his non-union workforce.
Let’s not forget Elon gleefully accepted a USD1.6 BILLION bailout for SpaceX…
Aaron
I assume you mean the Contract they won for ISS Cargo. The numbers match anyway. While it did save spacex, it was a Contract for Service they won in a competitive bid, not a bailout. It was fully delivered and at a cheaper price than the alternatives.
  arctic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Zurich
There are so many ways to refute your lame reply, but I'm not going to as you have already stated you are a climate change denier. The evidence is documented for all including the blind to see and your red herrings don't cut the mustard.

M.
Cliche salad - yay, I was hungry.
Apparently this $7500 subsidy finished for Tesla some time ago: "Since 2010 US car buyers can get a $7,500 tax credit for buying a new plug-in electric vehicle, but that credit phases out once a manufacturer has sold 200,000 vehicles—a threshold Tesla passed in 2018" link
I'm pretty sure they didn't scrap it in 2018 - only because Musk himself was complaining a few weeks ago that he didn't want anyone (including Tesla) to get it any more - CNN 7/12/2021;

Elon Musk has described electric cars as critical to fighting climate change, which he's said he believes could cause more displacement and destruction than all the wars in history combined. So you might think he'd support the federal government funding electric vehicle charging stations.

But that's not the case, at least right now. A sometimes combative Musk spoke at the Wall Street Journal's CEO Summit Monday and suggested scrapping the Biden infrastructure package. Musk said that Tesla didn't need the $7,500 tax credit for electric vehicles, which provides a tax credit of up to that amount to individuals purchasing plug-in electric vehicles, to drive demand for its vehicles. He also called federal support for charging infrastructure unnecessary.

Elon is no shirker when it comes to corporate welfare, Tesla has had lots of hand-outs since they began selling cars but the problem is that GM and Ford are ramping up production and can get the same money for their own electric cars built in the USA and - surprise! Elon doesn't want them to get it after having reaped ten years of that subsidy himself.

Build Back Better (which hasn't passed the Senate yet) is proposing to up it to $10,000 - if it doesn't pass it may yet remain at $7,500 for Tesla but if it does Ford and GM might get $12,500 because they have unionised workforces which for some reason means they'll get more subsidies. Which in turn explains Elon's hissy fit about the lower subsidy for his non-union workforce.
don_dunstan
They did not scrap it (the 7500). Its just not available to Tesla buyers anymore since 2018 having reached the limit.

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