Tarneit, Truganina commuters call on Victorian government to 'urgently' invest in train stations

 
Topic moved from News by bevans on 01 Mar 2022 10:47
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
A new railway station was promised in 2017 but not delivered.  Where are the new stations in the planning?  

There is also the need for the connection between Werribee West and Wydhamvale where is this work at?

Tarneit, Truganina commuters call on Victorian government to 'urgently' invest in train stations

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  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
Needs more than just a station. Both suburbs are scraping the bottom of the Walk Score list.
  8502 Assistant Commissioner

Where are the locations of the proposed stations?
  BrentonGolding Chief Commissioner

Location: Maldon Junction
Where are the locations of the proposed stations?
8502
In the article.......
  ilovecats Station Master

A new railway station was promised in 2017 but not delivered.  Where are the new stations in the planning?  

There is also the need for the connection between Werribee West and Wydhamvale where is this work at?

Tarneit, Truganina commuters call on Victorian government to 'urgently' invest in train stations
bevans
Was it? I thought it's only ever been a proposal so far.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
A new railway station was promised in 2017 but not delivered.  Where are the new stations in the planning?  

There is also the need for the connection between Werribee West and Wydhamvale where is this work at?

Tarneit, Truganina commuters call on Victorian government to 'urgently' invest in train stations
Was it? I thought it's only ever been a proposal so far.
ilovecats

According to the article.  West Werribee would have been a necessary build rolling on with electrification to connect to the werribee line may have reduced overcrowding on the geelong line trains.
  Tony M. Junior Train Controller

A new railway station was promised in 2017 but not delivered.  Where are the new stations in the planning?  

There is also the need for the connection between Werribee West and Wydhamvale where is this work at?

Tarneit, Truganina commuters call on Victorian government to 'urgently' invest in train stations
Was it? I thought it's only ever been a proposal so far.
ilovecats
I could be wrong, but I think there was a similar news report a while back that pointed out it was the real estate developers who'd been promising buyers that more stations were coming and that their new house would be within walking distance of a new station and so on - the government had only ever said things like "possible future location".

Considering the v/line peak services are (well, were pre-covid so we'll see) already full to bursting as is, building new stations would also require expanding services. There's not much point building new stations if every train that arrives is already full.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Who actually promised this alledged station? The Andrews Government never did. The article doesn't specify who promised it either, only that when the man in the article moved to Tarneit in 2016, he was told a station would be built there. By who? A real estate agent? Developers?

---

It is the same old story. The stations at Tarneit and Wyndham Vale, are just like those along the Melton line. They are suburban stations still pretending they are country stations.

While both major political parties and the media froth again and again over the same old topics like Airport rail, fast rail to Geelong and of course, roads, roads, roads. The massive growth in the outer west is ignored again and again.

The railway is still unelectrified. The trains are still over-capacity and the bus network is ignored completely meaning the gargantuan station car parks still fill up too early for many commuters.

Still it is an election year, so I expect to hear plenty about fast rail to Geelong.
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
They are suburban stations still pretending they are country stations.
Gman_86
Otherwise known as Adelaide syndrome.
  Jack Le Lievre Assistant Commissioner

Location: Moolap Station, Vic
As late as early 2020, the Wyndham Council said that neither of these stations was required until at least 2030. Their head of planning and development, someone who I can't stand as they are an arrogant smeg, said at the time that the only people who benefit from the building of the stations would be the construction consortiums if they were built earlier than the late 2020s. They also boasted about how they advised the Liberal Party at the time the building of these stations during the construction of the RRL would be a good waste of taxpayers' money, as would be the planning.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Sounds like he/she/they was/were telling them what they wanted to here.

The Liberal party had a ball slashing and burning on that project for the short time they had the helm of this state.
  bevans Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
The Liberal party had a ball slashing and burning on that project for the short time they had the helm of this state.
Gman_86

One of the key reasons there are issues now.
  BaysideManny Assistant Commissioner

A new railway station was promised in 2017 but not delivered.  Where are the new stations in the planning?  

There is also the need for the connection between Werribee West and Wydhamvale where is this work at?

Tarneit, Truganina commuters call on Victorian government to 'urgently' invest in train stations
bevans
The RRL project wasn't even a Victorian Government project. It was done by the Feds. Steve Bracks (yet another pro freeway Premier) saw the chance of providing a rail bypass for Geelong and a rail service to the new suburbs of the West. Done at little expense to the Victorian Government as 75% of the cost was met by the Federal Government.

In an effort to provide a service to Geelong uninterrupted by Metro services and a suburban services for the new suburbs of Wyndhamvale and Tarneit, some 16kms apart, the result was a rail service that satisfied no one. Passengers were left with an outer suburban service operated by DMU's. A project further hampered by penny pinching of successive Victoria Governments.

At the present without quad tracking between Sunshine and Wyndhamvale, there is no way more stations will be provided. The Geelong passengers will have a fit seeing their services slowed further.  

No Stations as far as I know were promised.


Mannie
  Lockspike Chief Commissioner

It is the same old story. The stations at Tarneit and Wyndham Vale, are just like those along the Melton line. They are suburban stations still pretending they are country stations.
Gman_86
I think it's VicGov/Metro that are pretending they are country stations, (eyes, ears closed, la, la, la, don't want to know).
V/Line surely knows they are suburban stations.
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
The RRL project wasn't even a Victorian Government project. It was done by the Feds. Steve Bracks (yet another pro freeway Premier) saw the chance of providing a rail bypass for Geelong and a rail service to the new suburbs if the West. Done at little expense to the Victorian Government as 75% of the cost was met by the Federal Government.
BaysideManny
Find myself in rare agreement with you: The Rudd government paid for this project under Brumby and there's little to no interest from the current Andrews government in fixing any of the problems created by poor design.

You'll have to hope another big-spending Commonwealth government comes along...
  Heihachi_73 Chief Commissioner

Location: Terminating at Ringwood
You mean a federal Labor government? Can't wait, I'm sick of Australia being the modern day East Germany under the Liberals.
  Tony M. Junior Train Controller

In an effort to provide a service to Geelong uninterrupted by Metro services and a suburban services for the new suburbs of Wyndhamvale and Tarneit, some 16kms apart, the result was a rail service that satisfied no one.
BaysideManny
One side was always going to come away unsatisfied - those are mutually exclusive goals. Or at least, they became so as soon as running electrified track from Werribee to Wyndham Vale was cut out of the proposal and the Geelong line became an outer Melbourne suburban service with V/Line's two busiest stations.

The problem is that "Geelong" as most people think of it is sandwiched between two major growth areas: Melbourne's western suburbs and the big housing developments out at Armstrong Creek and surrounds. So all the transport developments over the last decade or two out there have been designed to service those growth areas, whether it's RRL or the Geelong bypass road. And they've all been a bit of a botch job because they've had "oh yeah, and it's great for Geelong too" thrown in.

That means the problems they face aren't seen as problems because they're not the point: RRL was designed to provide a bare minimum rail service to some of the outer western suburbs (bad luck Point Cook) and it's doing that just fine. It just happened that the way they decided to do it was by linking it to the Geelong line, which is going to bite them on the backside when the new commuters from Armstrong Creek mean the trains are full up before Lara.

Hence "Geelong Fast Rail", which is going to put those full-up Geelong trains back onto the Werribee line where they can sit behind Metro trains and at Newport and take a speedy ninety minutes to make a one hour trip.
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
Metro should take this over snd electrify quickly snd run high capacity sparks in both directions from sunshine and Newport to the city. That would solve overcrowding for the current system and allow for connector to Newport.

Geelong line should also be electrified snd allow trains from both sunshine and Newport to Geelong and Metro style in Geelong. In 10 years the entire system will be u workable without this investment
  Lockie91 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Sunbury, Vic
RRL was conceived in 2008 after the Rod Eddington review, which called for RRL to increase capacity on METRO lines from Werribee and Sunbury before MM1 was to be built. RRL was intended to be a stop-gap solution to free up capacity until MM1 opened in 2018. Bendigo, Ballarat and Sunbury services were all running into Southern Cross on the same track pair, with Geelong crawling through Werribee. For this part, it has served its purpose.

The issue is two-fold, firstly like all the DoT they didn't expect the development to happen as rapidly as it did. It's not just rail that is behind, almost all civic infrastructure is still being built now, some ten years later. The second and biggest issue was the Liberals, not only did they slash funding from the final stages of RRL causing the bottlenecks we endure now. They also paused the state for two years, they came to the election with a tunnel drawn on the back of a napkin. Had they just started construction on MM1 we would be riding through it today.

RRL was also intended to be quaded, with stations at Truganina, Sayers Road, Davis Road and Blackforest as part of the 2012 PTV Plan (Happy 10th Birthday.) Unfortunately, the government is in a catch 22 situation. It is easy to go build some basic stations, $5 million a pop, easy. As has been mentioned, V/line services are already overcrowded. Can quad RRL to Sunshine as intended, that just pushes the bottleneck further down, with Geelong services slowed between Sunshine & Southern Cross. RRL can be signalled for 24TPH, just as any other rail corridor, line speed would just need to be reduced.
Can build the Werribee connection, which will just swamp the already crowded Werribee line as everyone drives to Blackforest.

The issues with RRL need to be tackled in one hit, adding smaller projects is just going to exacerbate the problems commuters are already facing, which will translate to the ballot box. Brumby was too slow to fix transport problems in the west and along the sandbelt and the voters tossed him out.

Now that Geelong HRS is going to die a slow and quiet death. RRL needs to be quaded as intended back in 2008, all the new stations need to be built, both Geelong and RRL need to be sparked. This just leaves the elephant in the room. What to do with Sunshine. The original PTV Plan allowed for 12TPH for Geelong and RRL, which isn't going to cut it.

A Sunshine-City connection is going to be needed. Allowing Geelong to express to Sunshine and then onto Southern Cross (6TPH Geelong, 4TPH Ballarat, 4 TPH Bendigo.) Leaving RRL and Melton to half 24TPH each. Where or what the Sunshine link will be is anyone guess, it will need to be built. The situation out west is only going to get worse in the preceding years, 500,000 more homes are still to be built.

Whatever the link is, it will need to stack up to the bean counters. One can hope that a federal Labor government will jump in bed with Dan and throw a billion or two to solve the problem.

Lockie
  historian Chief Commissioner

Who actually promised this alledged station? The Andrews Government never did. The article doesn't specify who promised it either, only that when the man in the article moved to Tarneit in 2016, he was told a station would be built there. By who? A real estate agent? Developers?
Gman_86

Back in the late '70s the family was coming home via South Morang. Driving past the brand new, under development, subdivision that would become Mill Park, Dad decided to drop into the show room to see what was happening. (Dad had spent about 10 years working for a broad acre real estate developer, first as a clerk and then as a valuer, so he had a professional interest.)

I quite clearly remember eavesdropping on a salesman spruik the subdivision to a potential buyer. The salesman pointed to the dismantled Whittlesea line which was clearly marked on the big map on the wall of the sales office. "That's the railway that will serve the estate. Just needs some work."

So it did; just many, many, years later.
  Galron Chief Commissioner

Location: Werribee, Vic
As late as early 2020, the Wyndham Council said that neither of these stations was required until at least 2030. Their head of planning and development, someone who I can't stand as they are an arrogant smeg, said at the time that the only people who benefit from the building of the stations would be the construction consortiums if they were built earlier than the late 2020s. They also boasted about how they advised the Liberal Party at the time the building of these stations during the construction of the RRL would be a good waste of taxpayers' money, as would be the planning.
Jack Le Lievre
Wyndham Council, as well as the state government, are at least 5, probably closer 10 years behind reality. They approve all the development they have, and don't put in or support the required public infrastructure. Most arterial roads need duplicating, 5 years ago at least, with the rollercoaster ride most of the rest of them are fixed. The outer ring road need building through the area. The various train stations mentioned in this thread should have gone in by now, with 9 car vlo's every 10 mins in the peak, or electric around to werribee would be better on 10 mins frequencies all day. And that's just transport infrastructure. Got to be getting close to needing another major hospital, cop shop at Wyndham vale, at least 4 primary and probably 2 secondary schools as well.

Look at the area north and west of the RRL over the past 10 years or so and tell me those train stations are not required. Now.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
The Liberal party had a ball slashing and burning on that project for the short time they had the helm of this state.

One of the key reasons there are issues now.
bevans
Though since 2014 what effort has been undertaken to address the Issues ?

Work Is underway to remove the 3 level crossing along the RRL route (Ballarat line)
  freightgate Minister for Railways

Location: Albury, New South Wales
At what locations and how does this help if at all ?

Lever crossing removals on the RRL are not going to fix over crowding.
  Tii Chief Train Controller

Now that Geelong HRS is going to die a slow and quiet death. RRL needs to be quaded as intended back in 2008, all the new stations need to be built, both Geelong and RRL need to be sparked. This just leaves the elephant in the room. What to do with Sunshine. The original PTV Plan allowed for 12TPH for Geelong and RRL, which isn't going to cut it.

A Sunshine-City connection is going to be needed. Allowing Geelong to express to Sunshine and then onto Southern Cross (6TPH Geelong, 4TPH Ballarat, 4 TPH Bendigo.) Leaving RRL and Melton to half 24TPH each. Where or what the Sunshine link will be is anyone guess, it will need to be built. The situation out west is only going to get worse in the preceding years, 500,000 more homes are still to be built.

Whatever the link is, it will need to stack up to the bean counters. One can hope that a federal Labor government will jump in bed with Dan and throw a billion or two to solve the problem.

Lockie
Lockie91
With all the large billion++ projects needed to bring the system up to the 21st C, it does sound like a large federal contribution will be needed to complete the WRP ideas from way back. The path from SC station to at least Footscray has always felt like a clunky plod to me and a big drawback to the final run in. Is there anything that can be done with what exists? or is a whole new tunnel/skyrail dedicated line through all those tracks the only way? I hate half hearted approaches but I can see this will be big$ and competing with many priorities across the system.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
RRL was conceived in 2008 after the Rod Eddington review, which called for RRL to increase capacity on METRO lines from Werribee and Sunbury before MM1 was to be built. RRL was intended to be a stop-gap solution to free up capacity until MM1 opened in 2018. Bendigo, Ballarat and Sunbury services were all running into Southern Cross on the same track pair, with Geelong crawling through Werribee. For this part, it has served its purpose.

The issue is two-fold, firstly like all the DoT they didn't expect the development to happen as rapidly as it did. It's not just rail that is behind, almost all civic infrastructure is still being built now, some ten years later. The second and biggest issue was the Liberals, not only did they slash funding from the final stages of RRL causing the bottlenecks we endure now. They also paused the state for two years, they came to the election with a tunnel drawn on the back of a napkin. Had they just started construction on MM1 we would be riding through it today.

Lockie
Lockie91

The Libs were never going to create the Melbourne metro we have almost finished today as they were, with the support of then Planning Minister Guy going to build some harebrained Metro line down to Port Melbourne if I recall as there was land down there they had an interest in.

Everything else you wrote makes good sense.

Mike.

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