What rail projects will South Australia deliver with a new Labor Government?

 
Topic moved from South Australia by dthead on 27 Mar 2022 08:23
  DrJames Junior Train Controller

Location: Adelaide, SA
Literally nothing will happen - I don't know why anyone thinks otherwise.

We had a sixteen year Labor government prior to the aberration of the Marshall government - probably the slowest electric train program ever in existence (and if Labor had been re-elected last time we still wouldn't have wires beyond Salisbury). The only thing that Labor really did in their last sixteen year tenure was extend the Glenelg tram to Bowden and the Botanical Gardens - (a whole 1 km).

Apart from that, literally nothing happened for rail last time under Labor.

This time around will not be any different.
don_dunstan

Yep...sadly neither flavour of SA government are ever particularly interested in rail.  

(slightly) In their defense, the general public aren't particularly interested either.

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  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
Literally nothing will happen - I don't know why anyone thinks otherwise.

We had a sixteen year Labor government prior to the aberration of the Marshall government - probably the slowest electric train program ever in existence (and if Labor had been re-elected last time we still wouldn't have wires beyond Salisbury). The only thing that Labor really did in their last sixteen year tenure was extend the Glenelg tram to Bowden and the Botanical Gardens - (a whole 1 km).

Apart from that, literally nothing happened for rail last time under Labor.

This time around will not be any different.

Yep...sadly neither flavour of SA government are ever particularly interested in rail.  

(slightly) In their defense, the general public aren't particularly interested either.
DrJames
Rail doesn't compete nationally on an even footing with trucking - it never has. And the last 10 years intra-state freight rail in South Australia finally collapsed with none left at all now. You only have to witness the number of B-doubles and (now) B-triples to know that trucks are the unofficially endorsed mode of transport for freight in this country.

Frankly I'm astonished there's any intra-state freight left in other states of Australia given how trucks have been running rings around it. Even the freight volumes on the Sydney-Melbourne route have been plummeting I read recently.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Your new Premier is on the record as strongly supporting the continuation of the Overland train. Moreover as he and Dan have already met he will have learned that election promises are just that ...PROMISES, that have to be delivered and like Dan does every year, as I work in government, I know this...

Each year Dan sends out a memo to all his Ministers outlining the election promises of the former campaign and requiring a report back on their costings, implementation progress etc.

The days of broken election promises are long gone, at least in Victoria and I expect the same will occur if it wasn't already implemented earlier in SA.

Mike.
The Vinelander
How's that fast train to Warrnambool going for you? Have you worn out a seat with your presumed multiple trips on it yet?

What about the Suburban Rail Loop? Do they even have a lease on a digger? Three years on from that election 'promise' - oh, we have some new photos of stations - photos are taken with a camera, usually of real things, those are computer renderings of something that doesn't even exist.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
Your new Premier is on the record as strongly supporting the continuation of the Overland train. Moreover as he and Dan have already met he will have learned that election promises are just that ...PROMISES, that have to be delivered and like Dan does every year, as I work in government, I know this...

Each year Dan sends out a memo to all his Ministers outlining the election promises of the former campaign and requiring a report back on their costings, implementation progress etc.

The days of broken election promises are long gone, at least in Victoria and I expect the same will occur if it wasn't already implemented earlier in SA.

Mike.
How's that fast train to Warrnambool going for you? Have you worn out a seat with your presumed multiple trips on it yet?

What about the Suburban Rail Loop? Do they even have a lease on a digger? Three years on from that election 'promise' - oh, we have some new photos of stations - photos are taken with a camera, usually of real things, those are computer renderings of something that doesn't even exist.
Aaron

What ARE you talking about Question

The Warrnambool line upgrade is occurring as we speak.

https://bigbuild.vic.gov.au/news/regional-rail-revival/works-progressing-on-the-warrnambool-line

...and funding is set aside for Stage ONE of the Suburban Rail Loop. I'm not about to post copies of government documents about budget submissions for relocating underground infrastructure that always occurs before a significant project and the EES process.

https://bigbuild.vic.gov.au/projects/suburban-rail-loop
.
I can understand the malaise on your side of the border after four years of not a lot in the PT sphere, but be assured, these projects are progressing...and a lot more besides.

Dig in and have a look at what a progressive government does in infrastructure:

https://bigbuild.vic.gov.au/projects

Mike.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
You work in the government, dig up the election announcement, it was about the middle of 2017, and the upgrade was to be completed in about 18 months - that’s somewhere about 55-60 months ago, somewhat more than 18, and it’s just ‘occurring as we speak’ is it? Well funded, run and on time then.
  SAR520SMBH Train Controller

Your new Premier is on the record as strongly supporting the continuation of the Overland train. Moreover as he and Dan have already met he will have learned that election promises are just that ...PROMISES, that have to be delivered and like Dan does every year, as I work in government, I know this...

Each year Dan sends out a memo to all his Ministers outlining the election promises of the former campaign and requiring a report back on their costings, implementation progress etc.

The days of broken election promises are long gone, at least in Victoria and I expect the same will occur if it wasn't already implemented earlier in SA.

Mike.
How's that fast train to Warrnambool going for you? Have you worn out a seat with your presumed multiple trips on it yet?

What about the Suburban Rail Loop? Do they even have a lease on a digger? Three years on from that election 'promise' - oh, we have some new photos of stations - photos are taken with a camera, usually of real things, those are computer renderings of something that doesn't even exist.

What ARE you talking about Question

The Warrnambool line upgrade is occurring as we speak.

https://bigbuild.vic.gov.au/news/regional-rail-revival/works-progressing-on-the-warrnambool-line

...and funding is set aside for Stage ONE of the Suburban Rail Loop. I'm not about to post copies of government documents about budget submissions for relocating underground infrastructure that always occurs before a significant project and the EES process.

https://bigbuild.vic.gov.au/projects/suburban-rail-loop
.
I can understand the malaise on your side of the border after four years of not a lot in the PT sphere, but be assured, these projects are progressing...and a lot more besides.

Dig in and have a look at what a progressive government does in infrastructure:

https://bigbuild.vic.gov.au/projects

Mike.
The Vinelander
It's a lot more than just the last 4 years of not a lot in the PT sphere

The 16 years of Labor Governance prior to that didn't deliver a hell of a lot either!
  Yappo Train Controller

You work in the government, dig up the election announcement, it was about the middle of 2017, and the upgrade was to be completed in about 18 months - that’s somewhere about 55-60 months ago, somewhat more than 18, and it’s just ‘occurring as we speak’ is it? Well funded, run and on time then.
Aaron
The irony of a conservative ideologue living in a state that has had no regional rail for decades having a go at a project funded by a progressive govt in another state that has expanded and upgrade regional rail by investing $4B in the last 6 years!

There's a lengthy list of delayed rail based projects all around the country on both sides of politics eg Inland rail & Syd L2 & L3. One only needs to glance towards the Electrification Gawler line to see a mismanaged and much delayed project by the previous govt.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
Even the freight volumes on the Sydney-Melbourne route have been plummeting I read recently.
don_dunstan

Freight volumes between Sydney and Melbourne are at perilously low levels.

Freight volumes on the Sydney-Melbourne route are at a reasonable level, and the corridor can get quite hectic at times.

There is a subtle difference here which is beyond the comprehension of politicians, journalists, and even some rail industry execs.
  WimbledonW Assistant Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Are there any level crossings in South Australia that could be usefully be replaced by bridges?
  Yappo Train Controller

5) Glenelg line - hopefully the Goodwood pedestrian overpass project should be expanded to include an interchange....won't expect it.
The ALP member for the area campaigned on cancelling it completely, and was returned with an increased 2PP margin.
justapassenger
Which is a shame as it is such an easy fix given the impending overpass. Anytime, transport experts visit Adelaide to evaluate the PT system (usually the O-Bahn), the lack of an interchange at Goodwood is always noted with a degree of incredulity.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
You work in the government, dig up the election announcement, it was about the middle of 2017, and the upgrade was to be completed in about 18 months - that’s somewhere about 55-60 months ago, somewhat more than 18, and it’s just ‘occurring as we speak’ is it? Well funded, run and on time then.
Aaron

One word.

COVID.

Moreover, you're having a whinge because the Victorian government DIDN'T break an election promise Question

Simply amazing Exclamation

M.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
You work in the government, dig up the election announcement, it was about the middle of 2017, and the upgrade was to be completed in about 18 months - that’s somewhere about 55-60 months ago, somewhat more than 18, and it’s just ‘occurring as we speak’ is it? Well funded, run and on time then.

One word.

COVID.

M.
The Vinelander
Two numbers:

2020 and 2021

Both notably not within 18 months of mid 2017…

In fact, no, we will ‘do that math’

4 months of 2022 so far, and I’ll give you all of 2020 and 2021 with Covid all at 100% lost time - 28 months.

55 - 28 = 27 months - plenty of time to fit an ‘18 month’ project in - a 50% allowance for extra time in fact.
  62430 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Metro Adelaide
5) Glenelg line - hopefully the Goodwood pedestrian overpass project should be expanded to include an interchange....won't expect it.
The ALP member for the area campaigned on cancelling it completely, and was returned with an increased 2PP margin.
Which is a shame as it is such an easy fix given the impending overpass. Anytime, transport experts visit Adelaide to evaluate the PT system (usually the O-Bahn), the lack of an interchange at Goodwood is always noted with a degree of incredulity.
Yappo
Is it such an easy fix for a Goodwood interchange? The current tram overpass is humpbacked and would need to be completely rebuilt to give level track for platforms.  The tram overpass and stop at South Rd has a centre platform which has lifts and stairs at each end.  The adjoining cycleway does not have access to the tram platform.  The complication at Goodwood is the culvert for Brownhill Creek running under the tram overpass and the rail platform and also the overflow channels in the vicinity.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

If there really is a public market for a tram-train interchange (as opposed to just gunzels thinking there might be) shifting the Forestville tram stop away from the Leah St level crossing to be located closer to the railway station would be the ideal bang for buck solution.

The walking distance between them would be shorter than the train/bus connections at a number of stations which officially carry the 'Interchange' title or the connection icon on route maps.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
5) Glenelg line - hopefully the Goodwood pedestrian overpass project should be expanded to include an interchange....won't expect it.
The ALP member for the area campaigned on cancelling it completely, and was returned with an increased 2PP margin.
Which is a shame as it is such an easy fix given the impending overpass. Anytime, transport experts visit Adelaide to evaluate the PT system (usually the O-Bahn), the lack of an interchange at Goodwood is always noted with a degree of incredulity.
Is it such an easy fix for a Goodwood interchange? The current tram overpass is humpbacked and would need to be completely rebuilt to give level track for platforms.  The tram overpass and stop at South Rd has a centre platform which has lifts and stairs at each end.  The adjoining cycleway does not have access to the tram platform.  The complication at Goodwood is the culvert for Brownhill Creek running under the tram overpass and the rail platform and also the overflow channels in the vicinity.
When catching a bus In from the Airport, traveling along Currie Street, you have to look at a moving spot on your phone map to look for the closest bust stop to Leigh Street, so you can walk up Leigh Street and Bank Street to get to Adelaide Railway Station.
It would be good If the closest stop to Adelaide Railway Station was made very obeluses or the buses ran via North Terrace.

There Is not even a covenant King William Street tram stop close to Currie Street / Glenfell Street


Would a relocated tram stop work If It was located adjacent to Newman Street / Ethel Street to serve Forestville Reserve, Unley Swimming Centre and Goodwood Railway Station ?

Is there any historical reason why Goodwood Railway Station never had a tram stop ? (the tramway was once a heavy stream railway)

Why don't Seaford trains stop at Goodwood ?
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
When catching a bus In from the Airport, traveling along Currie Street, you have to look at a moving spot on your phone map to look for the closest bust stop to Leigh Street, so you can walk up Leigh Street and Bank Street to get to Adelaide Railway Station.
Or, you could just ask the driver and they will point it out to you...

I STRONGLY suspect that very few people traveling from the airport by bus are looking for Adelaide Station anyway, I spend a lot of time in and around Leigh and Bank Streets and I am not convinced I have ever seen a person with a suitcase walking down those streets.

It would be good If the closest stop to Adelaide Railway Station was made very obeluses or the buses ran via North Terrace.
North Terrace is bad enough with traffic and access, we don't need the airport buses going there too. The stop must be easy enough to find, it's not as though there is ever a bunch of people looking for it.

There Is not even a covenant King William Street tram stop close to Currie Street / Glenfell Street
It's at Pirie Street, if you want it, Rundle Mall if you want to walk a little further, they're maybe a quarter mile apart, Pirie Street is slightly closer, certainly closer to the Grenfell Street bus stop than the airport is to it's bus stop, and closer than ARS.

Would a relocated tram stop work If It was located adjacent to Newman Street / Ethel Street to serve Forestville Reserve, Unley Swimming Centre and Goodwood Railway Station ?
I think you would find that most of the people using the tram do so because it serves their house; not because they're using the pool, the reserve or wanting to access the train station. The local member campaigned against changes to the train/tram arrangements at Goodwood, and won, with increased margin no less, because they (not being from a different state) understood what the locals use the service for.

Is there any historical reason why Goodwood Railway Station never had a tram stop ? (the tramway was once a heavy stream railway)
Presumably, rather like today, no one that used either service ever had a need for it. SA governments, of both sides, sensibly, it seems, know better than to go inventing problems to solve.

Why don't Seaford trains stop at Goodwood ?
I think most do. For those that don't, we have Woodlands.




If all of this is still about getting to/from the airport, from the Belair/Seaford/Flinders train get an Uber. My last Uber to the Airport from Unley Park (approximately Goodwood) was $20.59 for a 7am flight on Tuesday, no looking up timetables, no looking up connections. $20.59 is probably $17 more than train/tram but it's nearly $200 less than my plane ticket, but probably about the surcharge payable to leave Sydney or Melbourne airport by PT anyway so who cares?

If you cannot afford to get to/from the airport in Adelaide, quite simply, you cannot afford the airline ticket so it's all a bit irrelevant, and if you're here from the east, don't complain, compared to your airport access it's effectively a free service in Adelaide.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line
You work in the government, dig up the election announcement, it was about the middle of 2017, and the upgrade was to be completed in about 18 months - that’s somewhere about 55-60 months ago, somewhat more than 18, and it’s just ‘occurring as we speak’ is it? Well funded, run and on time then.

One word.

COVID.

M.
Two numbers:

2020 and 2021

Both notably not within 18 months of mid 2017…

In fact, no, we will ‘do that math’

4 months of 2022 so far, and I’ll give you all of 2020 and 2021 with Covid all at 100% lost time - 28 months.

55 - 28 = 27 months - plenty of time to fit an ‘18 month’ project in - a 50% allowance for extra time in fact.
Aaron

So...in your peculiar logic...you're having a whinge because the Victorian government DIDN'T break an election promise Question

What with your resident RWNJ's...Oops I better be careful lest I get reported yet again, you guys in SA are in for a bumpy ride with a progressive government. Hold on.

Mike.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
When catching a bus In from the Airport, traveling along Currie Street, you have to look at a moving spot on your phone map to look for the closest bust stop to Leigh Street, so you can walk up Leigh Street and Bank Street to get to Adelaide Railway Station.
Or, you could just ask the driver and they will point it out to you...

I STRONGLY suspect that very few people traveling from the airport by bus are looking for Adelaide Station anyway, I spend a lot of time in and around Leigh and Bank Streets and I am not convinced I have ever seen a person with a suitcase walking down those streets.

It would be good If the closest stop to Adelaide Railway Station was made very obeluses or the buses ran via North Terrace.
North Terrace is bad enough with traffic and access, we don't need the airport buses going there too. The stop must be easy enough to find, it's not as though there is ever a bunch of people looking for it.





If all of this is still about getting to/from the airport, from the Belair/Seaford/Flinders train get an Uber. My last Uber to the Airport from Unley Park (approximately Goodwood) was $20.59 for a 7am flight on Tuesday, no looking up timetables, no looking up connections. $20.59 is probably $17 more than train/tram but it's nearly $200 less than my plane ticket, but probably about the surcharge payable to leave Sydney or Melbourne airport by PT anyway so who cares?

If you cannot afford to get to/from the airport in Adelaide, quite simply, you cannot afford the airline ticket so it's all a bit irrelevant, and if you're here from the east, don't complain, compared to your airport access it's effectively a free service in Adelaide.
Aaron
I traveled to South Brighton / Seacliff (from Melbourne Airport) earlier this Month (In the evening arriving at ADL at 21:00 Ish) traveling light on a cheap ($59 airfares each way)

The public bus from Adelaide Airport  (J1 Bus) got off near Leigh Street on Currie Street.

Walk along Leigh Street and Bank Street to Adelaide Railway Station.

Catch Seaford bound train to Seacliff (express most of the way) People were saying the trains were free (I was using a Adelaide Metro Card that I hadn't used for over 2 years, but had plenty of credit on It)

The only drama I had was the J1 Bus runs every half hour and I had to wait 24 mins for the next service.

Getting the bus back to the airport was a bit trickier, going to Glenfell Street main bus stop, close to King William Street (there was NO posted timetable to be found, nor any passenger Information display) simply had to ask each bus driver, a J1 or J2 bus In the end didn't even take me.
I tried the Adelaide Metro journey planer, but I would of missed my flight If I followed that !

Lots of room for Improvement on the bus system front.

On a plus side not many Cites have a regular PT bus service direct from the Airport to the City (that type of bus service Is usually tendered off to a private operator who charges $15~25 per trip)

Launceston Airport Is classic example, the public bus to Evandale could easily serve the airport, but purposely avoids It and doesn't even offer a stop at Breadabane.
Even the long distance Coach service Redline doesn't even serve the Airport (but stops at the near by town of Perth)
  Jack Le Lievre Assistant Commissioner

Location: Moolap Station, Vic
Can this thread either be moved to the soapbox or locked or how about both?
  62440 Chief Commissioner

At least you can get the bus into ADL and for us old farts, it is free most of the day. I remember catching the bus from Burnie to Wynyard long ago, it was $1.60 to just before the gate and $20 if you wanted to go the extra stop into the airport!
  Totoro Junior Train Controller

@The Vinelander

One word.

COVID.”
Is that a valid reason though? In NSW we’ve been building (and approving) new rail infrastructure throughout that whole time..
  justarider Chief Commissioner

Location: Released again, maybe for the last time??
@The Vinelander

One word.

COVID.”
Is that a valid reason though? In NSW we’ve been building (and approving) new rail infrastructure throughout that whole time..
Totoro
COVID has been very disruptive for 2 years. Did not you notice?

For the Warrnambool line, most of the physical track work has been completed for ages.
But, nothing works without signalling , and until recent months the required technicians were restricted in movement.
stage-2-of-warrnambool-line-upgrade

There are a LOT more LX upgrades to be done, leading to more signal changes. Then the new tracks can be commissioned.
The original "end 2021" (for stage ONE) was overly ambititious when announced pre-Covid. Best laid plans of men......

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