The Aussie political economy II

 
Topic moved from The Lounge by dthead on 17 Feb 2022 16:37
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

The really bad thing about Metricon was that (allegedly and according to the News.com article) sales staff were told to get as big-a deposit as they could off clients signing contracts so they could stave off insolvency for as long as they could. It's a real low act if true...
don_dunstan
The term caveat emptor, IMHO applies to the building industry more than any other.
A quote from a person employed in the game long term, a definition of variation.
Builder instructs client to open wallet, builder then decides how much to remove.

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  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
Westpac isn't mucking around - they're raising their variable mortgage rate by a (relatively) large 0.8% today in anticipation of the RBA hiking rates next month - you'd have to assume from this rather large rise that they think the RBA will go 0.5%?

  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
The really bad thing about Metricon was that (allegedly and according to the News.com article) sales staff were told to get as big-a deposit as they could off clients signing contracts so they could stave off insolvency for as long as they could. It's a real low act if true...
The term caveat emptor, IMHO applies to the building industry more than any other.
A quote from a person employed in the game long term, a definition of variation.
Builder instructs client to open wallet, builder then decides how much to remove.
michaelgm
Queensland's Gold Coast has seen its largest house and low-rise builder go to the wall in the last 24 hours - TD Media;

Another major Australian building company has collapsed, leaving an uncertain future for 280 homes.

Surfers Paradise builder Pivotal Homes, one of Queensland’s biggest home builders, went into liquidation on Thursday night.

The company, which was a category three builder, licensed for low-rise jobs up to $30m, has 16 full-time employees.

I wonder if they've also been guilty of getting deposits for work they knew they'd never complete?
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
The NSW and VIC governments are preparing bail-out packages for Metricon because basically its "too big to fail" - News Ltd:

The NSW government is racing to prepare a bailout package for Metricon as the troubled builder teeters on bankruptcy, according to a new report.

Metricon, one of the country’s largest construction firms, has denied speculation it is in financial difficulty after the shock death of its founder Mario Biasin last week, days before crisis talks with the Victorian government.

Acting chief executive Peter Langfelder has insisted it is “business as usual” for the company, which employs around 2500 staff and has a pipeline of thousands of homes under construction.

But The Australian reports senior levels of the NSW government fear the builder is at risk of imminent collapse and are scrambling to finalise a rescue package for the state’s building industry and customers.

The NSW building regulator has already sought advice on engaging receivers, according to the newspaper, which further reports that contrary to its public statements, sources familiar with the company’s finances say cashflow remains dire and that the business is teetering on bankruptcy.

According to The Australian, senior NSW government representatives including from Premier Dominic Perrottet’s office held meetings on Thursday examining bailout proposals.

They're very concerned in NSW that if Metricon goes under that the compensation fund to protect consumers in the event of builder bankruptcy will be completely drained if a huge company like that goes under - so instead they're going to reward incompetency and bail out the faltering company directly before that happens. The same thing is happening in Victoria where Metricon holds many government contracts and can't be allowed to go broke, a 'rescue package' is being negotiated:

Metricon holds $195 million worth of contracts with the [VIC] state government, including a five-year deal to build and maintain public housing as part of Victoria’s ambitious “big build” infrastructure program.

In total, Metricon had 6052 homes under construction across the nation in 2020-21.

Its projects in Queensland alone are worth more than $400 million, according to Queensland Building and Construction Commission records.

This is the thin edge of the wedge - expect taxpayer money to be used to bailout more and more businesses that fail in the coming months as the problems put off by the COVID rescue packages come back to haunt us. More debt for the taxpayers, more incompetent business practices rewarded with more borrowed government money...
  michaelgm Chief Commissioner

The NSW and VIC governments are preparing bail-out packages for Metricon because basically its "too big to fail" - News Ltd:

The NSW government is racing to prepare a bailout package for Metricon as the troubled builder teeters on bankruptcy, according to a new report.

Metricon, one of the country’s largest construction firms, has denied speculation it is in financial difficulty after the shock death of its founder Mario Biasin last week, days before crisis talks with the Victorian government.

Acting chief executive Peter Langfelder has insisted it is “business as usual” for the company, which employs around 2500 staff and has a pipeline of thousands of homes under construction.

But The Australian reports senior levels of the NSW government fear the builder is at risk of imminent collapse and are scrambling to finalise a rescue package for the state’s building industry and customers.

The NSW building regulator has already sought advice on engaging receivers, according to the newspaper, which further reports that contrary to its public statements, sources familiar with the company’s finances say cashflow remains dire and that the business is teetering on bankruptcy.

According to The Australian, senior NSW government representatives including from Premier Dominic Perrottet’s office held meetings on Thursday examining bailout proposals.

They're very concerned in NSW that if Metricon goes under that the compensation fund to protect consumers in the event of builder bankruptcy will be completely drained if a huge company like that goes under - so instead they're going to reward incompetency and bail out the faltering company directly before that happens. The same thing is happening in Victoria where Metricon holds many government contracts and can't be allowed to go broke, a 'rescue package' is being negotiated:

Metricon holds $195 million worth of contracts with the [VIC] state government, including a five-year deal to build and maintain public housing as part of Victoria’s ambitious “big build” infrastructure program.

In total, Metricon had 6052 homes under construction across the nation in 2020-21.

Its projects in Queensland alone are worth more than $400 million, according to Queensland Building and Construction Commission records.

This is the thin edge of the wedge - expect taxpayer money to be used to bailout more and more businesses that fail in the coming months as the problems put off by the COVID rescue packages come back to haunt us. More debt for the taxpayers, more incompetent business practices rewarded with more borrowed government money...
don_dunstan
If these mobs are deemed too big to fail and public funds are injected as a rescue package, then at the very minimum some degree of equity should be acquired.
Expect many phoenix companies to arise, as failed are organisations are rebranded.

Not overlooking this little gem, implemented by Howard, coincidentally when his brother was in financial strife.

https://www.ag.gov.au/industrial-relations/general-employee-entitlements-and-redundancy-scheme-geers
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
If these mobs are deemed too big to fail and public funds are injected as a rescue package, then at the very minimum some degree of equity should be acquired.
Expect many phoenix companies to arise, as failed are organisations are rebranded.

Not overlooking this little gem, implemented by Howard, coincidentally when his brother was in financial strife.

https://www.ag.gov.au/industrial-relations/general-employee-entitlements-and-redundancy-scheme-geers
michaelgm
Can't agree with you strongly enough - however you don't have to go back to Howard to find examples of it. They should have done the same thing with Gerry Harvey, Solomon Lew and Qantas. You want a bail-out? Give us equity and we'll sell down when you recover.

Nothing makes me more ill than people who deride the unemployed as bludgers while Qantas gets two billion for flying empty planes, Premier Investments gets tens of millions for closing their shops etc etc. The LNP aren't the only ones (obviously), watch the new Labor government start dishing out money like confetti to their own mates when there's problems with the economy later this year...
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
The Reserve Bank makes its interest rate decision tomorrow at 2pm (EST).

There's a number of people saying 0.65% because that will bring it up to a nice even 1.00%.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

The Reserve Bank makes its interest rate decision tomorrow at 2pm (EST).

There's a number of people saying 0.65% because that will bring it up to a nice even 1.00%.
don_dunstan
A good chance of that.  Especially with unemployment at a 50 year low and inflation at 30 year high.

Incidentally:


I would love to see this graph split up according to who owns the assets...
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
The Reserve Bank makes its interest rate decision tomorrow at 2pm (EST).

There's a number of people saying 0.65% because that will bring it up to a nice even 1.00%.
A good chance of that.  Especially with unemployment at a 50 year low and inflation at 30 year high.

I would love to see this graph split up according to who owns the assets...
Carnot
Housing prices will tank.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Can't agree with you strongly enough - however you don't have to go back to Howard to find examples of it. They should have done the same thing with Gerry Harvey, Solomon Lew and Qantas. You want a bail-out? Give us equity and we'll sell down when you recover.

Nothing makes me more ill than people who deride the unemployed as bludgers while Qantas gets two billion for flying empty planes, Premier Investments gets tens of millions for closing their shops etc etc. The LNP aren't the only ones (obviously), watch the new Labor government start dishing out money like confetti to their own mates when there's problems with the economy later this year...
don_dunstan
Umm, we have been down this path, the so called "near empty planes", which actually were not were actually contracted by the govt to keep essential airfreight and passenger corridors open.

In the belly of these planes, some of the freight included the usual medical transfers such a body organs, blood, radioisotopes, short life cancer and other medicines and lets not forget the CV-19 vaccine.

Then there as mail, parcels, documnents, birthday card for nan etc etc.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

The Reserve Bank makes its interest rate decision tomorrow at 2pm (EST).

There's a number of people saying 0.65% because that will bring it up to a nice even 1.00%.
A good chance of that.  Especially with unemployment at a 50 year low and inflation at 30 year high.

I would love to see this graph split up according to who owns the assets...
Housing prices will tank.
RTT_Rules
Or stagnate.  There will still be demand (even increased demand) for rental property in many places which might keep the investment property market afloat.  Albo would be mad to axe negative gearing in such an environment IMO.

Some areas will be in trouble though.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
The Reserve Bank makes its interest rate decision tomorrow at 2pm (EST).

There's a number of people saying 0.65% because that will bring it up to a nice even 1.00%.
A good chance of that.  Especially with unemployment at a 50 year low and inflation at 30 year high.

I would love to see this graph split up according to who owns the assets...
Housing prices will tank.
Or stagnate.  There will still be demand (even increased demand) for rental property in many places which might keep the investment property market afloat.  Albo would be mad to axe negative gearing in such an environment IMO.

Some areas will be in trouble though.
Carnot
I think Syd and Mel will definitly go down. Brisbane, hopefully next year also.

However its not limited to Australia, this trend has started elsewhere including Dubai and NZ expecting 20% next year.
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
Can't agree with you strongly enough - however you don't have to go back to Howard to find examples of it. They should have done the same thing with Gerry Harvey, Solomon Lew and Qantas. You want a bail-out? Give us equity and we'll sell down when you recover.

Nothing makes me more ill than people who deride the unemployed as bludgers while Qantas gets two billion for flying empty planes, Premier Investments gets tens of millions for closing their shops etc etc. The LNP aren't the only ones (obviously), watch the new Labor government start dishing out money like confetti to their own mates when there's problems with the economy later this year...
Umm, we have been down this path, the so called "near empty planes", which actually were not were actually contracted by the govt to keep essential airfreight and passenger corridors open.

In the belly of these planes, some of the freight included the usual medical transfers such a body organs, blood, radioisotopes, short life cancer and other medicines and lets not forget the CV-19 vaccine.

Then there as mail, parcels, documnents, birthday card for nan etc etc.
RTT_Rules
And you lost horribly.

Please stop with the 'free money is good' rubbish - corporate welfare is bad. I seem to remember your judgemental attitude about relatives of yours on welfare who couldn't get jobs but you have no problem at all with taxpayers forking out two billion to Qantas to fly empty planes.

If necessary we take equity in exchange for rescuing the airline - but NO FREE MONEY. End-of-story.
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
The Reserve Bank makes its interest rate decision tomorrow at 2pm (EST).

There's a number of people saying 0.65% because that will bring it up to a nice even 1.00%.
A good chance of that.  Especially with unemployment at a 50 year low and inflation at 30 year high.

Incidentally:


I would love to see this graph split up according to who owns the assets...
Carnot
The Kouk is wrong about that I reckon - the reason being if credit markets freeze then asset prices will tank and people won't be able to borrow as much and/or they'll find themselves in negative equity.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
And you lost horribly.

Please stop with the 'free money is good' rubbish - corporate welfare is bad. I seem to remember your judgemental attitude about relatives of yours on welfare who couldn't get jobs but you have no problem at all with taxpayers forking out two billion to Qantas to fly empty planes.

If necessary we take equity in exchange for rescuing the airline - but NO FREE MONEY. End-of-story.
don_dunstan
Argh back to Don publically vs stating he doesn't give a $hit about peoples medical needs because it doesn't suit his agenda narative again.

No Don, you are fool if you believe Australia as a country could afford to have its only significant airline just be grounded over night and I'm not talking about delievering Amazon parcels, a compelete and utter fool.

One more time Don, Qantas was kept flying on its core and major regional routes to ensure no disruption to medical supplies, some foods and other essentials goods as well as the passenger travel. Especially as medical staff were being moved around the country to support areas with outbreaks.

Unlike a number of long haul foreign airlines, Qantas couldn't justify the cost of carrying much freight in the cabin and still comply with IATA regulations, so in the absence of enough freigthters, passenger planes were mostly flying near empty in setas, but bellies full of stuff. Some international airlines with longer routes, lower labour costs were able to get IATA approved in cabin freight carry, which Emirates did for a few flights to Australia. But eventually ripped seats out of some planes as the recovery was clear to take longer than expected.

Globally most airlines still fliying during the worst part of the pandemic were all being paid by their govts to do so. Singapore airlines was paid by the Australian govt to keep operating in a limited capacity for the purposes of importing medical supplies, keep live seafood exports open and other essential services and lower cost option for Aussies trying to get home.

Even your own state was recorded as paying for your seafood to be airfreighted to Asia!

Wrong Don, you remember poorly. None of my relatives that I know their employment status are unemployed and who want to work.
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
Argh back to Don publically vs stating he doesn't give a $hit about peoples medical needs because it doesn't suit his agenda narative again.
RTT_Rules
Couldn't justify Qantas getting $2 billion of free (borrowed) taxpayer money in a several paragraphs... but what else is new?

If the plasma flights were so very urgent the Commonwealth could have chartered flights themselves. I use Australia Post regularly, not as if Nana's postcard from the Gold Coast couldn't have been delayed a few days rather than paying Qantas two billions string-free dollars to fly it would have mattered.

You've lost this argument before, why come back here?
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
Argh back to Don publically vs stating he doesn't give a $hit about peoples medical needs because it doesn't suit his agenda narative again.
Couldn't justify Qantas getting $2 billion of free (borrowed) taxpayer money in a several paragraphs... but what else is new?

If the plasma flights were so very urgent the Commonwealth could have chartered flights themselves. I use Australia Post regularly, not as if Nana's postcard from the Gold Coast couldn't have been delayed a few days rather than paying Qantas two billions string-free dollars to fly it would have mattered.

You've lost this argument before, why come back here?
don_dunstan
You think the medical needs are a few bottles of plasma?

You think other key aspects of the economy requiring air freight are a few boxes.

Considering the issues to Qantas were 100% caused by the govt, both state and Fed, then to cripple a self sustainable private organisation then bail it out by taking a share holding is both unethical and just dumb and likely to legal action by the shareholders. Also note that Qantas's ability to attract foreign investment is heavily regulated under the Qantas Act for which we have discussed before and this significantly drives down the private investment options into Qantas during the Pandemic phase. Additionally it sets a a potential precendent for Nationalisation by stealth using a pandemic.

However in comparison Vermin was going broke on its own and questionable would they have survived had CV not occured. Had Vermin gone broke outside the pandemic, then govt support would justify an equity exchange and an option to get a 2nd airline up and running ASAP to ensure some sort of competition in the market and total market restore capacity ASAP. As Vermin went broke during the pandemic, then was no urgency and Vermin were able to be put on the market for the highest bidder, which not was an internaltional buyer if I recall.

Not rocket science Don.
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
You think the medical needs are a few bottles of plasma?

You think other key aspects of the economy requiring air freight are a few boxes.
RTT_Rules
So charter some flights - OR loan them the money. Don't give them money string-free - that's the welfare that you so despise.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
You think the medical needs are a few bottles of plasma?

You think other key aspects of the economy requiring air freight are a few boxes.
So charter some flights - OR loan them the money. Don't give them money string-free - that's the welfare that you so despise.
don_dunstan
They did, it was here is some $, keep flying these routes, this frequency until the Premiers open the borders.

When I said, keep the core and essential regional routes open you do know what this means?
Its not a Cessna flying afew times to Dubbo.
Have you even bothered to check how many planes were actually kept in operation? Did you even check on how many were parked up in Alice Springs and the USA?

Its not rocket science Don, use the noggin.

I'm sure if the Feds had known it was going to last 18mths from the outset, they may have done things differently, but who knew what was going on in the heads of a few State Premiers, maybe billing the states would have been a starter.

SA Govt kept paying I think it was Malaysian Airlines or Cathay to keep the Adelaide to Asia corridor open for export sea food and other products for nearly a year.

Not rocket science Don.
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
They did, it was here is some $, keep flying these routes, this frequency until the Premiers open the borders.

When I said, keep the core and essential regional routes open you do know what this means?
Its not a Cessna flying afew times to Dubbo.
Have you even bothered to check how many planes were actually kept in operation? Did you even check on how many were parked up in Alice Springs and the USA?

Its not rocket science Don, use the noggin.

I'm sure if the Feds had known it was going to last 18mths from the outset, they may have done things differently, but who knew what was going on in the heads of a few State Premiers, maybe billing the states would have been a starter.

SA Govt kept paying I think it was Malaysian Airlines or Cathay to keep the Adelaide to Asia corridor open for export sea food and other products for nearly a year.

Not rocket science Don.
RTT_Rules
No. Markets keep air freight routes open, otherwise road freight is perfectly fine.

Sorry but for the trillionth time you have lost the argument that Qantas should get free money. Road freight is a perfectly good substitute.

Poor you, can't win any argument on this board at all. A bit like Mike The Whinelander except you're trying. Points for trying.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line

Poor you, can't win any argument on this board at all. A bit like Mike
don_dunstan

Trying to drag me back into it...

When there's nothing left for you to offer.

You are pathetic.

M.
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud

Poor you, can't win any argument on this board at all. A bit like Mike Trying to drag me back into it...

When there's nothing left for you to offer.

You are pathetic.

M.
The Vinelander
It's true that you can't win arguments though isn't it Mike - so you get all cranky towards me instead of being angry at your own ignorance.

You remind me of the Teals - you really want "action on climate change" to happen but you don't understand anything at all about planetary carbon dioxide or how feeble and meaningless the "solutions" we're putting in place are. At least RTT_Rules is trying to construct arguments in that thread to counter my assertion that its all a load of rubbish - you on the other hand won't even try.

Stop being angry at me and try actually getting involved in what we're discussing for a change.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat Line

Poor you, can't win any argument on this board at all. A bit like Mike Trying to drag me back into it...

When there's nothing left for you to offer.

You are pathetic.

M.It's true that you can't win arguments though isn't it Mike - so you get all cranky towards me instead of being angry at your own ignorance.

Stop being angry at me and try actually getting involved in what we're discussing for a change.
don_dunstan

Similarly I could be like you and run to the mods whenever your feathers get ruffled.

M.
  don_dunstan Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Adelaide proud
Google has been found to have defamed former NSW Deputy Premier John Barilaro by a NSW court - Jordan Shanks and Google also referred to another court for possible prosecution over contempt of court - SBS News;

Former NSW deputy premier John Barilaro has been awarded $715,000 in defamation damages from Google for a "vindictive" social media campaign that left him traumatised.

The tech giant, and commentator Jordan Shanks, who posted defamatory videos on Google's YouTube platform, also face possible prosecution for contempt of court.

The now-retired MP sued Google and Shanks over videos titled "bruz" and "Secret Dictatorship" published on Mr Shanks' friendlyjordies channel in 2020.

The videos included claims that Mr Barilaro was a corrupt conman who should be jailed, who committed perjury nine times and engaged in blackmail.

The now-retired MP settled his Federal Court case against Mr Shanks in November when he provided an apology, edited the videos and was ordered to pay $100,000 costs to Mr Barilaro.

Google initially defended the case but later withdrew all defences and conceded the widely viewed videos defamed the former NSW Nationals leader.

How much of what FriendlyJordies said about John Barilaro was actually true though? I watched the video last year and its pretty obvious that the former Deputy Premier was deeply conflicted by operating his own Air B'n B business while being the Minister in charge of regulating that industry. And that was the least controversial charge against him.
  Carnot Minister for Railways

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