Whats ARTC Doing

 
  Demonlord Hightower Chief Train Controller

Is the rebuilding of Sandgate an ARTC project? The plans were around long before ARTC proposed taking the lease but I don't know if funding was ever appropriated for RIC to do it.

Cheers
David
"DavidB"


Sandgate flyover is indeed an ARTC project.

Regards,
Trent Pegler aka Demonlord Hightower
Mwa ha ha ha!Mwa ha ha ha!Mwa ha ha ha!Twisted Evil
dedicated member of the RVRM Clap  8)

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  Maaaark Deputy Commissioner

Location: Pilbara, WA
What access to what facilities will the bridges provide?  Is this a previously non-rail site?

--Bill
"freightgate"


"Stage 3 consists of a single track, dual gauge high-level opening rail bridge across the Port River, north of the road bridge, with connections to the existing rail system."

From Birkenhead, the line will also be duplicated for the majority of its length, upgraded to 60km/h running, and CTC.

Rail served facilities at present are: Mobil at Birkenhead, PSP at Osborne, and DPI container terminal at Pelican Point. Currently under construction is the new ABB Grain facility at Pelican Point, which wil feature a balloon loop for the unloading of trains.
  crypticone Chief Train Controller

Location: Blue Mtns
The Sandgate Flyover was planned ,but not funded a long time before ARTC  was even contemplating NSW, prior to even the RAC days.

However they are bringing the project to reality.

The same goes for the Southern Sydney Freight Line.

Cheers.
  Clyde-GM Chief Commissioner

Location: Remote controlled from Junee.
Yeah, SSFL has been on the drawing board for years. Only got Ingleburn - Glenfield because some dickhead thought we could get from Macarthur to Cabramatta with $16 million or something stupid. So the story goes anyway.

Ben.
  crypticone Chief Train Controller

Location: Blue Mtns
Yes just like the M7 and the M4 East and Gas and Power upgrades, one must wait ones turn.

The big picture syndrome for the state, rail is not the only thing that Australia needs.

Cheers
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
Yeah, SSFL has been on the drawing board for years. Only got Ingleburn - Glenfield because some smeghead thought we could get from Macarthur to Cabramatta with $16 million or something stupid. So the story goes anyway.

Ben.
"Clyde-GM"


Clyde-GM is broadly right.  It was expected that the Sefton/Cabramatta to Macarthur SSFL would cost "only" $100m, which is far less than the true cost.

The cut back Glenfield to Ingleburn freight loop has a design flaw, of the kind that happens when projects are pruned by accountants using an ax.  The G-I(inclusive) loop requires TWO signallers to operate.  If it had been cut back more from G to Ingleburn (exclusive), it would have been able to be operated by ONE signaller.  Also the old Ingleburn loop could have been retained as an intermediate turnback.
  KngtRider Chief Commissioner

Location: http://www.nitroware.net
Why does the Ingleburn end have a bit of overhead near the junction, is it a legacy of the old loop?

If the whole idea it was for for a freight line one way or another, why was the  overbridge not designed to allow double stacking ?

One peak arvo I was going home and waiting at Glenfield in the Via Granville Train which was in the dock platform, and then noticed an intermodal going thru on the main (cant remeber up or down) the NR loop was empty. It was peak  (~3-4PM)  and cityrail trains were constantly coming and going in addition to the via Granville in the dock.

Why send a freight on the main line if the loop was empty and the main were 'busy' already ?
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
Why does the Ingleburn end have a bit of overhead near the junction, is it a legacy of the old loop?

If the whole idea it was for for a freight line one way or another, why was the  overbridge not designed to allow double stacking ?

One peak arvo I was going home and waiting at Glenfield in the Via Granville Train which was in the dock platform, and then noticed an intermodal going thru on the main (cant remeber up or down) the NR loop was empty. It was peak  (~3-4PM)  and cityrail trains were constantly coming and going in addition to the via Granville in the dock.

Why send a freight on the main line if the loop was empty and the main were 'busy' already ?
"KngtRider"


The small piece of OHW on the loop is a leftover from the old loop.

ARTC are planning clearances for 10' 6" containers on standard height flat waggons.  Double stacking is a long way off.

Because there are more conflicts and slower crossovers in the Down direction compared to the up, the G-I loop is more useful and more used in the Up direction. An up move on the loop, can also occur at the same time that a Down Glenfield terminator arrives in platform 1.

The loop appears to be able to hold two 1500m long trains, not that this happens often.

The loop would be more useful if it were long, but that is all that the original One Nation funding allowed.
  SEMartin Chief Train Controller

Location: Canberra ACT
Yeah, SSFL has been on the drawing board for years. Only got Ingleburn - Glenfield because some smeghead thought we could get from Macarthur to Cabramatta with $16 million or something stupid. So the story goes anyway.

Ben.
"Clyde-GM"


Well that's one of way of looking at the story Ben. Glenfield-Ingleburn was part of the One Nation works, and funded out of a $454 bucket of money that had to be spent on a heap of projects, of which Adelaide-Melbourne gauge standardisation was the most important part. As the lack of planning and spiralling costs of AMGS sucked money out of other projects, stuff like Sydney Freight Access project was trimmed to fit.
A good description of the One Nation is in the July 2005 Railway Digest...
  Clyde-GM Chief Commissioner

Location: Remote controlled from Junee.
The Up Relief sees Down XPT's overtaking CityRail services. Seen it happen about a dozen times, especially when the XPT is running late.

Ben.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
The Up Relief sees Down XPT's overtaking CityRail services. Seen it happen about a dozen times, especially when the XPT is running late.

"Clyde-GM"



Construction of the G-I Freight loop consumed money that would have been better spent building the third (and fourth) platforms at Macarthur, which were delayed by several years as a result. A fourth platform on the Engine Road at Liverpool would also have been useful - this is STILL yet to be completed.
  witsend Chief Commissioner

Location: Front RH Seat of a School Bus
Just for interest, in South Australia, ARTC has been rather busy upgrading 2 loops between Pt. Pirie and Pt Augusta.

The loops in Question are Pt. Germein and Wininnowie. Both of the loops have had the signalling redone at the northern end, and extended to 2kms long. The AN-style Searchlight signal has been replace by a two colour LED signal.

They have also had the Solar Equipment updated too!
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
Just for interest, in South Australia, ARTC has been rather busy upgrading 2 loops between Pt. Pirie and Pt Augusta.

The loops in Question are Pt. Germein and Wininnowie. Both of the loops have had the signalling redone at the northern end, and extended to 2kms long. The AN-style Searchlight signal has been replace by a two colour LED signal.

They have also had the Solar Equipment updated too!
"witsend"


Pt Germain and Wininnowie used to be about 1500m long, which is a bit short compared to the 1800m plus standard. Since short loops are a bit useless, it is about time that they are lengthened.

Coonamina, Crystal Brook, Snowtown (by about 10m) and Bolivar are also short and in need of lengthening.  Crystal Brook might not be extensible, due to a junction at one end, and a bridge at the other.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
The latest news from ARTC is that work will start soon on lengthening the Braunstone loop from 800m to 1500m.  This loop was previously extended from 400m. Lengthening twice wastes money compared to lengthening it to the ultimate length in one stage.

The long Braunstone Loop divides a long section of Kungala and Lawrence Road which is 76km, discounted the yard-loop at Grafton, which may only be 1222m long. Strictly speaking the length of a section timewise is more important that its length in km. The next longest section between long loops is the 61km between Rappeville and Kyogle Loop, which is 61km.

It will be interesting to see if the extended Braunstone loop has overlaps for simultaneous arrivals, through signals via the loop, medium speed turnouts for entry and exist to the loop.

See http://artc.com.au/docs/news/pdf/ARTC_News_020806.pdf
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: Waiting for the sky to fall, the seas to rise... and seeing a train on the SSFL!
ARTC tends to quote sectional run times...

On the North Coast line ARTC aims to bring spacing of loops down from 30
minutes to average of 18 minutes travel time.

Plans (designs) to extend 12 loops and build 3 new loops.

Another significant aim is to increase overall capacity and reliability with more crossing opportunities for 1500m trains.
  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
awsgc24 , nope way off track . GI loop as you put it serves as a place to refuge long trains north of Yass Junction . There is nowhere else they can go clear of the main lines north of Yass . Always remember that ATM ARTC is at the mercy of Sydney Operations Control and if they wont accept these trains all the way from ARTC territory to the Metro Goods Roads they can rot at Yass forever . So building extra platforms/roads at Macarthur would not have payed off . Ops has fits every time an 1800m train gets close to RIC territory which is not surprising considering the hamstrung Liverpool (ridiculous level crossing) and the slow approaches and junction speeds at Sefton J . Cambo is a major bottle neck as well with Rail Corps never ending stream of up Tin Cans or the down ones crossing over to the up platform or up yard .

SSFL will happen and will also make a laughing stock of City Snails running times when it does . Far better to be away from Snail Rails politically bound traffic jam anyway .
  CaseyJones Chief Commissioner

Location: A little south of sanity

GI loop as you put it serves as a place to refuge long trains north of Yass Junction . There is nowhere else they can go clear of the main lines north of Yass
"BDA"

I don't know if you can fit an 1800m train in Moss Vale Down Refuge/Loop/Inspection Road, but I'm pretty sure we've had at least 1500-1600m trains in there lately.

I know it's a stuff around to get them out when it's an Up train, but technically they can go away there (tying up the rest of the yard/junction in the process Mad ).

A few new signalling arrangements at the Down end of the Inspection Road could alleviate the need to propel the train back behind 156 crossover to depart via 156/158 crossover. If the mods were carried out to the Inspection Road, trains could depart to the Up Main via 188 crossover.

TE2815, please correct me if I'm wrong with any of my statements Wink

Cheers
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney

GI loop as you put it serves as a place to refuge long trains north of Yass Junction . There is nowhere else they can go clear of the main lines north of Yass
"BDA"

I don't know if you can fit an 1800m train in Moss Vale Down Refuge/Loop/Inspection Road, but I'm pretty sure we've had at least 1500-1600m trains in there lately.

I know it's a stuff around to get them out when it's an Up train, but technically they can go away there (tying up the rest of the yard/junction in the process Mad ).

A few new signalling arrangements at the Down end of the Inspection Road could alleviate the need to propel the train back behind 156 crossover to depart via 156/158 crossover. If the mods were carried out to the Inspection Road, trains could depart to the Up Main via 188 crossover.

TE2815, please correct me if I'm wrong with any of my statements Wink

Cheers
"CaseyJones"


Strictly speaking, you cannot cross Up and Down freighters on the Glenfield-Ingleburn line, as is had no Freight Loop.

The extended Down Loop at Moss Vale is 650m (Inspection Road) + 400m (Old Down Refuge) + 400m (Opposite Triangle at 200m radius) + 100m (Other crossovers, etc) totalling 1550m roughly. Of course, if this measurement were important, it would be marked as such on the LAU and Rail Atlas. While a down train is so refuged, is blocks access from the Up Main to the Branch. All in all, a dog's breakfast of a design.
  TE2815 Minister for Railways

Location: Mission control Minto or Thirlmere
awsgc24 is close with his assessment.
I don't know if you can fit an 1800m train in Moss Vale Down Refuge/Loop/Inspection Road, but I'm pretty sure we've had at least 1500-1600m trains in there lately.
"CaseyJones"
Inspection Road = 604m (not 650m), Down Loop = 270m (not 200m) and Down Refuge = 591m (not 400m) all these measurements are clear of points. To allow for fouling across points the total length of all three roads is 1894m but we would never try over 1890m, none usually run that long anyway. I have had 1690m in there.

I know it's a stuff around to get them out when it's an Up train, but technically they can go away there (tying up the rest of the yard/junction in the process Mad ).
"CaseyJones"
South bound easy. North bound is a stuff around, after they are over 1060m they will need to set back onto Down Main Line to clear 153/156 points for departure at the northern end to depart the loop.

A few new signalling arrangements at the Down end of the Inspection Road could alleviate the need to propel the train back behind 156 crossover to depart via 156/158 crossover. If the mods were carried out to the Inspection Road, trains could depart to the Up Main via 188 crossover.
"CaseyJones"
Quite correct. They never made Moss Vale and Berrima Junction an amalgamated yard and as such they are two separate interlockings so that movement cannot be done.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney

A few new signalling arrangements at the Down end of the Inspection Road could alleviate the need to propel the train back behind 156 crossover to depart via 156/158 crossover. If the mods were carried out to the Inspection Road, trains could depart to the Up Main via 188 crossover.
"CaseyJones"
Quite correct. They never made Moss Vale and Berrima Junction an amalgamated yard and as such they are two separate interlockings so that movement cannot be done.
"TE2815"


Albeit Berrima Junc is now remotely controlled from Moss Vale, while inbetween is Moss Vale Junc (c1930) which is a separate frame. Although power points did exist in 1930, new boxes at Wolli Creek, MVJ and BJ were operated as separate boxes perhaps to give jobs to signalmen?
  TE2815 Minister for Railways

Location: Mission control Minto or Thirlmere
Albeit Berrima Junc is now remotely controlled from Moss Vale, while inbetween is Moss Vale Junc (c1930) which is a separate frame.
"awsgc24"
Moss Vale Junction Box is irrelevant Evil or Very Mad The main box is in control of Berrima Junction and the entry and exit of all trains into/out of Moss Vale interlocking. Moss Vale Junction can only operate when the main box allows it to do so. Moss Vale Junction is a glorified ground frame (3 actually) with walls and a roof. Evil or Very Mad
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
Albeit Berrima Junc is now remotely controlled from Moss Vale, while inbetween is Moss Vale Junc (c1930) which is a separate frame.
"awsgc24"
Moss Vale Junction Box is irrelevant Evil or Very Mad The main box is in control of Berrima Junction and the entry and exit of all trains into/out of Moss Vale interlocking. Moss Vale Junction can only operate when the main box allows it to do so. Moss Vale Junction is a glorified ground frame (3 actually) with walls and a roof. Evil or Very Mad
"TE2815"


To operate the extended 1500m+ Down Refuge, one of the points (Lever J) has to be reversed to complete the move (unless this has been changed since last I was there).  I am not sure if there is a signal through these points southbound. The points in question otherwise are set towards Unanderra.

Moss Vale is also percular in that there is one isolated semaphore signal between colour lights on either side in both Up and Down directions.
  TE2815 Minister for Railways

Location: Mission control Minto or Thirlmere
When were you last at Moss Vale. There is no lever J. For Down direction through loop Junction Box clears levers 40 and 35 to allow the Main Box to clear their signals (this is Junction Box switched out mode). For Up direction from refuge to loop Main Box gives Junction Box 76 control for Junction Box set 14 signal. Loop to Inspection Road is all from the Main Box.

No points from Moss Vale yard are set towards Unanderra Line when set in the normal position Wink
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
When were you last at Moss Vale. There is no lever J. For Down direction through loop Junction Box clears levers 40 and 35 to allow the Main Box to clear their signals (this is Junction Box switched out mode). For Up direction from refuge to loop Main Box gives Junction Box 76 control for Junction Box set 14 signal. Loop to Inspection Road is all from the Main Box.

No points from Moss Vale yard are set towards Unanderra Line when set in the normal position Wink
"TE2815"



This sounds better.  Level J should have been abolished in the way that you described when the Inspection Road was first built, but it took another 5-10 years for the sensible thing to be done.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
ARTC have announced the start of crossing loop improvements on the North Coast.

Braunstine is to be extened from 750m to 1500m.

Namnoona is to get a new 1500m loop to supplement the 1200m loop at nearby Casino which cannot easily be extended due to bridges and level crossings at either end.

The Nammoona loop will use the existing main line as the loop line, which a new higher standard track will become the main line. This trick has been done previously at Spencer Junction, Rappeville and Lawrence Road.

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