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K163
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jan 15, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 29, 2008
Location: Well you see that house over there? Well it's not that one.
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Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2003 4:49 pm
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hi all, on diesel locos, how come the second man in the cab is regarded as a fireman, when all he is doing is just sitting there, like the driver?
Regards,
Craig Walton
What I say here is my thoughts, and doesn't represent the MRPS or Woolworths ltd... smeg imagine it did!
If you want to loose weight, don't eat anything that comes in a BUCKET!
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DavidB
Site Admin
Joined: Jan 11, 2003
Last Visited: Jan 25, 2007
Location: Canberra
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Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2003 5:23 pm
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| 163 wrote: | | hi all, on diesel locos, how come the second man in the cab is regarded as a fireman, when all he is doing is just sitting there, like the driver? |
Fireman was a term inherited from steam days. "Diesel locomotive fireman" has since been phased out (except on tourist railways) and these days it's "second person" or, less frequently, "observer".
Cheers
David
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K163
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jan 15, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 29, 2008
Location: Well you see that house over there? Well it's not that one.
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Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2003 7:20 pm
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| DavidB wrote: | | 163 wrote: | | hi all, on diesel locos, how come the second man in the cab is regarded as a fireman, when all he is doing is just sitting there, like the driver? |
Fireman was a term inherited from steam days. "Diesel locomotive fireman" has since been phased out (except on tourist railways) and these days it's "second person" or, less frequently, "observer".
Cheers
David |
i knew that it was from steam days, as i'm a Trainee Fireman.cleaner on K163. i mostly know the fireman on diesels as observers, as we only use the T's when were shunting.
Regards,
Craig Walton
What I say here is my thoughts, and doesn't represent the MRPS or Woolworths ltd... smeg imagine it did!
If you want to loose weight, don't eat anything that comes in a BUCKET!
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prr934
Train Controller
Joined: Feb 19, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 17, 2008
Location: Adelaide, SA
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Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2003 1:02 pm
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I know Pichi Richi here in SA class the second crew member on diesels as an 'observer' too.
Leigh.
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Maaaark
Deputy Commissioner
Joined: Feb 28, 2003
Last Visited: Dec 2, 2008
Location: Adelaide, SA
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Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2003 2:12 pm
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At the National Railway Museum and Steamranger, the second man is called the Observer also.
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awsgc24
Minister for Railways
Joined: Feb 18, 2003
Last Visited: Dec 2, 2008
Location: Sydney, NSW
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Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2003 2:48 pm
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It is possible that the second man in the cab is sometimes called "co-driver", to emphasis that he is allowed to touch the controls from time to time.
During the Apollo missions to the moon, there was an enormous fight amongst the astronauts as to what to call the different positions, since as test pilots, job names such as "observer" or even "co-pilot" would be demeaning.
They finally decided on Commander and Pilot, for what on a railway engine would be Driver and Observer.
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K163
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jan 15, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 29, 2008
Location: Well you see that house over there? Well it's not that one.
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Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2003 3:45 pm
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no, co-driver wouldn't be apropiette, only in diesels with duel controls.
Regards,
Craig Walton
What I say here is my thoughts, and doesn't represent the MRPS or Woolworths ltd... smeg imagine it did!
If you want to loose weight, don't eat anything that comes in a BUCKET!
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DavidB
Site Admin
Joined: Jan 11, 2003
Last Visited: Jan 25, 2007
Location: Canberra
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Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2003 5:07 pm
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| 163 wrote: | | no, co-driver wouldn't be apropiette, only in diesels with duel controls. |
Does that mean they have to fight for them? 
Cheers
David
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K163
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jan 15, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 29, 2008
Location: Well you see that house over there? Well it's not that one.
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Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2003 7:14 pm
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i would like to see that! lol  though really, the co-driver might only use them when eihter he is getting the hand signals while shuinting, od of the driver suddnely dies!
Regards,
Craig Walton
What I say here is my thoughts, and doesn't represent the MRPS or Woolworths ltd... smeg imagine it did!
If you want to loose weight, don't eat anything that comes in a BUCKET!
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jm1941
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jan 16, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 30, 2008
Location: Mount Gambier
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Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2003 8:12 am
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| DavidB wrote: | | 163 wrote: | | no, co-driver wouldn't be appropriate , only in diesels with duel controls. |
Does that mean they have to fight for them? |
Hi David,
In my rail days (now retired) the Fireman, Observer, 2nd person, or whatever. I can speak up to 1996, 99% of fireman (I like term fireman, sorry old school) know how to, or DO drive whatever diesel they are on. In fact I've seen it where the crew relieve another crew and the first thing the Engineman (driver or whatever) says to his Fireman, "no, you get in the seat, and you can do the driving today, I want to study the horses, or rest a bit, had a hard night". Round the shunt yards most times the Fireman does the driving. In fact it gets that way at times, you hardly know who is the Engineman or the Fireman (for you modern persons, Driver and Observer) is.
I doubt very much if times have changed that much in 9 years. When a train leaves a main depot it might be the Driver at the helm, but a little down the track a good deal of the times, it will be the Observer driving.
But then, maybe those were the great GOOD old days.
Best Regards,
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prr934
Train Controller
Joined: Feb 19, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 17, 2008
Location: Adelaide, SA
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Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2003 9:18 am
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Apparently PN always swap drivers half way through the shift. In other words, the 2 crew members are both drivers, but they take it in turns to do the observer duties.
Leigh.
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NG Sulzers
Assistant Commissioner
Joined: Feb 18, 2003
Last Visited: Dec 2, 2008
Location: Quorn
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Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2003 12:35 pm
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On NSU class Diesel Electrics, a second deadmans pedal is provided, so that the observer could put his foot on it, and the driver could leave his/her (I'm into this political correctness) seat and controls, so therefore the observer could be titled co-driver.
Co-driver does not imply that the second person has equal access to controls, certainly in V8 Supercars for the 1000 at Bathurst, where there are two drivers allocated to a car, the reference co-driver is used, and only one driver is in the car at once.
Also even for dual control locomotives, only one reverser can be used at once and only one drivers brake valve should have the isolating cock open to it, however vigilance control can be operated from either position.
Dion Chandler,
Volunteer Member, Pichi Richi Railway Preservation Society
Diesel Hydraulic, Diesel Electric Engineman, Brill driver, Fireman, Guard and Train Controller
Quorn resident all my life
Volunteer Member, Hotham Valley Railway
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