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Clyde-GM
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jan 25, 2004
Last Visited: Sep 4, 2007
Location: Remote controlled from Junee.
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Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 4:27 pm
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Just happened to notice this...
Someone will post something that a lot of people have views on. This will get locked and all hell will break out with mods and admins getting a lot of crap (and yeah I give them crap too, but back to topic), this will go on for a couple of days then everything will calm down. Around four-months later, the whole thing starts again.
By the way, I think this has already started if you look at The Lounge, Victorian and MSTS 3D forums.
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Nexas
The Ghost of George Stephenson
Joined: Jan 12, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 5, 2008
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Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 5:37 pm
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It wouldn't happen of moderators used their powers properly, but there are a handful who are always misusing them.
I won't go into it, as last time I did, I was promised action and nothing happened.
Views expressed by me are strictly my own, not of my friends, employer, or anyone else, unless otherwise stated.
*Back at RP for a limited time only*
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mjja
Sir Nigel Gresley
Joined: Jan 13, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 17, 2008
Location: Mount Waverley, Melbourne
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Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 6:57 pm
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If everything that people have strong views on leads to a flame war, all I can say is that we must all be very immature. We should be able to have a discussion about something, putting our points of view and respecting people who are different from us, without it turning into a flame war.
That, in fact, is the job of the moderators: to give a word of warning when a topic seems to be on the brink of a flame war, and if it's ignored, to lock or delete it. The moderators have a responsibility to maintain these forums as a place where people can look for information without having to read through flame wars. In order to be able to do that effectively they have certain powers which ordinary users don't have. Power and responsibility must never be separated.
Happy Gunzelling and remember, "Go by rail!"
Michael Angelico
President, Smart Passengers Inc
(My opinions are my own unless specifically stated.)
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Clyde-GM
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jan 25, 2004
Last Visited: Sep 4, 2007
Location: Remote controlled from Junee.
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Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 7:10 pm
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Nexas, I could not agree with you more.
mjja, if the mods are to give a warning before they lock it, then they should instead of locking them right away. The thing is that flame wars can actually produce some information which normally wouldn't come out of hiding if the flame war hadn't started.
Everyone, should it be that threads locked are reviewed case-by-case by the administrators? I raise this because forum rule threads shouldn't be any problem to lock. If they've found to have locked a thread with just cause, then the admin can delete it or leave it as they see fit. If they locked a thread without just cause then that mod is given a three-day no lock period where if they lock a thread they're not a mod for a period of time.
Yes, this would possibly stop mods from locking threads, however I believe that the system would give people a chance to contact admins before a thread was deleted or locked for good and raise their point on the whole thing. I believe it may also make the majority of users (i.e. people without powers) happier when a thread is locked for good or deleted.
Comments are more than welcome on the two (2) above paragraphs; however keep it on topic.
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VRfan
Moderator
Joined: Jan 13, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 22, 2008
Location: In front of my computer :-p
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Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 7:49 pm
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| Clyde-GM wrote: | | MSTS 3D forums. |
So is it wrong to lock something that is getting completely OT and when two or more users want it locked? Give me a break. The MSTS forums aren't really a place for Holden vs Ford crap, so it belongs more in the lounge anyway (as long as it's not taken too far)
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John of Melbourne
The Ghost of George Stephenson
Joined: Jan 30, 2003
Last Visited: Oct 16, 2007
Location: Melbourne suburbs
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Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 10:53 pm
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| Clyde-GM wrote: | Nexas, I could not agree with you more.
mjja, if the mods are to give a warning before they lock it, then they should instead of locking them right away. The thing is that flame wars can actually produce some information which normally wouldn't come out of hiding if the flame war hadn't started.
Everyone, should it be that threads locked are reviewed case-by-case by the administrators? I raise this because forum rule threads shouldn't be any problem to lock. If they've found to have locked a thread with just cause, then the admin can delete it or leave it as they see fit. If they locked a thread without just cause then that mod is given a three-day no lock period where if they lock a thread they're not a mod for a period of time.
Yes, this would possibly stop mods from locking threads, however I believe that the system would give people a chance to contact admins before a thread was deleted or locked for good and raise their point on the whole thing. I believe it may also make the majority of users (i.e. people without powers) happier when a thread is locked for good or deleted.
Comments are more than welcome on the two (2) above paragraphs; however keep it on topic. |
My comment is that these paragraphs imply that it is just the moderation that needs to be improved, rather than acknowledging that if the users didn't get into flame wars, get libellous, etc. then the moderators wouldn't have anything to do. Perhaps there are some improvements that can be made to moderation (although I'm not convinced of that), but (some of) the users certainly need to improve.
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Shacks
Ghanzel
Joined: Mar 03, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 23, 2008
Location: Sir Big Lens of the Distant (Signal) North.
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Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 10:53 pm
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I think what we have here is a valuable tool and aid to thoe's with a common intrest. As is the case with anything, people will have different oppinions and ideas, a clasic for me is I am getting a new computer in a few days and a friend asked if he could have a look at the specs, 2 days later he goes to the same shop and orders the same but with a bigger hard drive and a better graphics card.
I like how the RP2 system will work as per the example that was made avaliable for all to see. I think that if you have posted something that has resulted in a forum being locked you should first have to explain your reason for the post. If it is not justified you get a strike against your name, 3 strikes your out. Looking at some of the topics on here now, some members could get 3 strikes in 1 topic.
For me this is my only real link to railways and the going on's and untill recently the only way I could see trains as they are today. It is also a great link to the past.
The big thing we ALL need to remember is that nobody is perfect, we all have our own oppinion and last time I looked in the members list there was no member by the name of Nobody.
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dthead
Site Admin
Joined: Jan 15, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 22, 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 9:51 am
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| Clyde-GM wrote: | Nexas, I could not agree with you more.
mjja, if the mods are to give a warning before they lock it, then they should instead of locking them right away. The thing is that flame wars can actually produce some information which normally wouldn't come out of hiding if the flame war hadn't started.
Everyone, should it be that threads locked are reviewed case-by-case by the administrators? I raise this because forum rule threads shouldn't be any problem to lock. If they've found to have locked a thread with just cause, then the admin can delete it or leave it as they see fit. If they locked a thread without just cause then that mod is given a three-day no lock period where if they lock a thread they're not a mod for a period of time.
Yes, this would possibly stop mods from locking threads, however I believe that the system would give people a chance to contact admins before a thread was deleted or locked for good and raise their point on the whole thing. I believe it may also make the majority of users (i.e. people without powers) happier when a thread is locked for good or deleted.
Comments are more than welcome on the two (2) above paragraphs; however keep it on topic. |
That is what I have tried to do. Calm the discussion down. But those topics have just died after I do so ( interesting delevelopment) - I'm not sure it is because people take my point and stop, or they are *** off at me for warning them. PM me if you see a situation, I am happy to talk to you.
Posting is always hard, as topic can wander from their original topic - we do it all the time when talking. It does get notived when suddenly one poster makes a claim, or another replies attacking the other person. Then all of a sudden it all post about that.
It may be impossible to get the mix right. But I know I'm trying. As you may be aware I usually sign off with my name when posting as myself, but do post my full sig when being "official" (as I will be in this post).
Regards,
David Head
=============================
Note: This message is posted as a Moderator.
PM me or use the "Report Post" button to bring issues up, report spam etc.
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Nexas
The Ghost of George Stephenson
Joined: Jan 12, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 5, 2008
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Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 12:58 pm
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| John of Melbourne wrote: | | Clyde-GM wrote: | Nexas, I could not agree with you more.
mjja, if the mods are to give a warning before they lock it, then they should instead of locking them right away. The thing is that flame wars can actually produce some information which normally wouldn't come out of hiding if the flame war hadn't started.
Everyone, should it be that threads locked are reviewed case-by-case by the administrators? I raise this because forum rule threads shouldn't be any problem to lock. If they've found to have locked a thread with just cause, then the admin can delete it or leave it as they see fit. If they locked a thread without just cause then that mod is given a three-day no lock period where if they lock a thread they're not a mod for a period of time.
Yes, this would possibly stop mods from locking threads, however I believe that the system would give people a chance to contact admins before a thread was deleted or locked for good and raise their point on the whole thing. I believe it may also make the majority of users (i.e. people without powers) happier when a thread is locked for good or deleted.
Comments are more than welcome on the two (2) above paragraphs; however keep it on topic. |
My comment is that these paragraphs imply that it is just the moderation that needs to be improved, rather than acknowledging that if the users didn't get into flame wars, get libellous, etc. then the moderators wouldn't have anything to do. Perhaps there are some improvements that can be made to moderation (although I'm not convinced of that), but (some of) the users certainly need to improve. |
Well said John
Views expressed by me are strictly my own, not of my friends, employer, or anyone else, unless otherwise stated.
*Back at RP for a limited time only*
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Clyde-GM
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jan 25, 2004
Last Visited: Sep 4, 2007
Location: Remote controlled from Junee.
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Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 3:02 pm
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| Shacks wrote: | I like how the RP2 system will work as per the example that was made avaliable for all to see. I think that if you have posted something that has resulted in a forum being locked you should first have to explain your reason for the post. If it is not justified you get a strike against your name, 3 strikes your out. Looking at some of the topics on here now, some members could get 3 strikes in 1 topic.
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Hmmmm, guess I missed that.
Anyway, who would review the reasons for the post as I'm sure most people on the board would be "damn I hate that [insert name]" or "damn that [insert name] is a pain in the smeg" or "I wish [insert name] would bugger off", even the mods and admins probably hate certain people (I couldn't care that much about who they hate except in the case mentioned here) and then would review some cases with yeah sure [insert name] has a totally valid point when their original post is "[insert name] is a total loser". Then when someone they hated came along, it'd be one strike.
Back to thinking I think.
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freightgate
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
Last Visited: Oct 31, 2008
Location: Albury, New South Wales
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Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 3:13 pm
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| John of Melbourne wrote: | | My comment is that these paragraphs imply that it is just the moderation that needs to be improved, rather than acknowledging that if the users didn't get into flame wars, get libellous, etc. then the moderators wouldn't have anything to do. Perhaps there are some improvements that can be made to moderation (although I'm not convinced of that), but (some of) the users certainly need to improve. |
John, what do you think should be improved? How should it be improved? It is fine for users to continually communicate that moderators or their actions need improving, I am happy to accept that. What needs to change?
--Bill
CNNNN - "Mr. Howard, what do you think of our new ethanol flavoured lollypops?" Umm Mr. Howard? ..... Mr. Howard??????? ..........
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John of Melbourne
The Ghost of George Stephenson
Joined: Jan 30, 2003
Last Visited: Oct 16, 2007
Location: Melbourne suburbs
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Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 10:40 pm
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| freightgate wrote: | | John of Melbourne wrote: | | My comment is that these paragraphs imply that it is just the moderation that needs to be improved, rather than acknowledging that if the users didn't get into flame wars, get libellous, etc. then the moderators wouldn't have anything to do. Perhaps there are some improvements that can be made to moderation (although I'm not convinced of that), but (some of) the users certainly need to improve. |
John, what do you think should be improved? How should it be improved? It is fine for users to continually communicate that moderators or their actions need improving, I am happy to accept that. What needs to change?
--Bill |
In the paragraph that you quoted I mentioned flame wars, and libel. One way users could improve is to ask themselves if they would like people talking about/to them the way they talk about/to others. Would you like people calling you "little Billy" (c.f. little Johnny (Howard)), or making fun of you or your picture (c.f. the Costa pictures that were posted and later deleted by the moderators). There are many other examples I could quote if I spent the time to look at what some users have been doing.
This is not to deny that sometimes some individuals (on these forums and off) warrant some criticism, but nobody is perfect and users should ask themselves how they would feel if their imperfections were publicly ridiculed, instead of being handled in a better way.
As far as politicians go, it is fair to scrutinise their record of achievements (or lack thereof), but there is no need to denigrate and ridicule them. (Although I like politician jokes as much as the next person!, but that is making light-hearted fun of them as a group, not as individuals.)
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